Death without even trying, everything in the universe can or must die at some point except the Creator, and it's death who takes care of that, ergo, she will come for molecule man and there's not a single thing he can do about it.
@slacker the hacker: Not death of the Endless. In the DC paradigm, everything will eventually die except the Presence and death is the one delivering it. It doesn't matter how strong MM's reality warping abilities are because this principle is instituted by the Presence and so no matter how much everything else can piss and cry about how unfair it is, there's still not a single thing they can do to change it.
"@Crom-Cruach: Well the thing is This a random encouter also molecule man as a good chance beyonder can beat death and mm held his own against beyonder (while holding back)"
plus molecule man had a different kind of power if you check my post:P I'm not sure if death can tank blow that send dcu into nothing, but Death may have a different type of weakness that multiversal fabric
" @slacker the hacker: Not death of the Endless. In the DC paradigm, everything will eventually die except the Presence and death is the one delivering it. It doesn't matter how strong MM's reality warping abilities are because this principle is instituted by the Presence and so no matter how much everything else can piss and cry about how unfair it is, there's still not a single thing they can do to change it. "
So all this really boils down to is where this fights taking place so since its in the phantom zone which is in the dcu death wins and if this was marvel mm would win
@slacker the hacker: I thought death didn't have a claim on lucifer who imo is below Molecule man or was that only because the presence told death to let lucifer live?
"@slacker the hacker: I thought death didn't have a claim on lucifer who imo is below Molecule man or was that only because the presence told death to let lucifer live? "
death as no claim on lucifer but do agree that mm is above lucifer
@Pr_Beyonder: MM is nowhere near above Lucifer, that is just plain false. As to the claim over him, Death's claim happens when it's a person's appointed time, never before that, when it happens absolutely nothing except the Presence can change it.
@Pr_Beyonder: He would be since in the DC universe the only thing above Lucifer is the Presence itself. Not to mention that Lucifer has done and said things that MM could never come close to match.
@Crom-Cruach: So MM going into the Dc universe depowers him since Lucifer is second to the Presence? What has Lucifer done that MM couldn't come close to matching?
@Pr_Beyonder: More accurately, MM can never be equal to Lucifer since the only being that can is the Presence.
As to what Lucifer has done, plenty, on top of the list is through his own will and creativity he grabbed hold of the demiurgic power and made everything that exists except the Presence and Micheal. That includes all the cosmic level abstracts and everything therein that would allow a being like MM to even exist.
"1)wait wasn't reec above LT and could casually create force fields more powerful than all of the multiverse? 2) didn't he fight pre-retcon beyonder? "
@Thor's hammmer: 1) Yes 2)Yes,but he lost fairly easily.Still he was able to give a better fight than Lt and the rest of the multiverse could of combined.
@Crom-Cruach: He didn't create any of the angels or heaven and hell. Lucifer had no demiurgic power only Michael did,hence the name Michael Demiurgos. Lucifer had the power to shape what was created by Michael's demiurgic power. They created the multiverse together and Pre Retcon Molecule Man was able to create a force feild more powerful than the mutliverse with ease.
@Pr_Beyonder: and the rules by which such a force field operate were worded and instituted by Lucifer in the DC universe, hence he could pick it appart. And again, the only thing above him is the Presence. So there's really no comparaison to MM.
" Death without even trying, everything in the universe can or must die at some point except the Creator, and it's death who takes care of that, ergo, she will come for molecule man and there's not a single thing he can do about it. "
" @Pr_Beyonder: and the rules by which such a force field operate were worded and instituted by Lucifer in the DC universe, hence he could pick it appart. And again, the only thing above him is the Presence. So there's really no comparaison to MM. "
@Crom-Cruach: Yeah,but can you say that when MM doesn't exist within the DCU if he came to the DCU from the MU how do you know that Molecule Man would agree to what Lucifer would want and when did he make such rules.Rules that let a being use their powers? I don't see how Lucifer is more powerful than MM just because he's second to the presence within Dc's own respective reality.
@Thor's hammmer: Marvel's death is nothing compared to Death of the Endless. As long as the concept of death exist DC's Death will live on. And since the act of killing something implies the existence of death (otherwise killing something is impossible), then no matter if Beyonder killed death, they still wouldn't be able to destroy Death of the Endless because the concept of the end of life still exists somewhere, like in their thoughts.
" @Thor's hammmer: Marvel's death is nothing compared to Death of the Endless. As long as the concept of death exist DC's Death will live on. And since the act of killing something implies the existence of death (otherwise killing something is impossible), then no matter if Beyonder killed death, they still wouldn't be able to destroy Death of the Endless because the concept of the end of life still exists somewhere, like in their thoughts. "
They only kill the physical form that's it but still exists.I doubt PR MM can hurt her.
" @Thor's hammmer: Marvel's death is nothing compared to Death of the Endless. As long as the concept of death exist DC's Death will live on. And since the act of killing something implies the existence of death (otherwise killing something is impossible), then no matter if Beyonder killed death, they still wouldn't be able to destroy Death of the Endless because the concept of the end of life still exists somewhere, like in their thoughts. "
@Thor's hammmer: no because the concept still exists in the mind of something he can never touch, the Presence or in his mind for that matter hence he could never erase the concept entirely, hence he cannot destroy Death of the Endless.
@Pr_Beyonder: There is only 1 truly Omnipotent being in the DC universe, the Presence. In Marvel, there is only TOAA. Since both would stalemate each other. Death cannot cease to exist, because there will always be one being that by his mere existence prevents the disappearance of Death.
@Primmaster64: if one takes Marvel and DC as different universes in a bigger omniverse then it's only logical as by definition, there can only be one omnipotent being at the same time in a world.
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