Power Level Discussion Thread (READ OP)

EDIT INFINITY: I just realized that placing all characters here on the OP will take up way too much space even with spoilers (I just tried fitting Madara's two forms alone in, and it was a LOT of space, I'm also not experienced with forum posting sooo...yeah I made a rookie mistake...sorry! ^_^''). So I think that this should be a place for us Viners to discuss throughout the thread the different power levels of characters, and we can reference our posts here that have been agreed upon Or at least a place where Viners go to learn. Just because you're an expert on Bleach doesn't mean you can't learn about other characters! Want to learn about Supes? See if you can find him in this thread! :D So from now on please title your posts with as large and stand-outish font as you can as to what form/character you're posting scans/feats for! I will provide a baseline though. John Doe from Everyday Comics is human level. That means he can lift his own body weight in most situations. (Assuming he's average body weight, 135 pounds/62 kilograms). No energy projection obviously. He can run at speeds of 15 MPH/24 KMH for short periods of time when pushing himself. Human durability is pretty much universally known, so he has that. All in all, do your scaling off of John Doe from Everday Comics. However, if you're using far beyond human level feats, of course you can prove this with your own scans :) Have fun!

EDIT: I feel maybe I have to verify that I won't update the OP without scans or other reliable sources backing up claims to a character's abilities. I will be placing these scans next to each character ability description as proof for anyone who uses this thread as a resource. The levels in the OP CAN and probably WILL be changed over time as more discussion takes place and feats are agreed upon. So feel free to RESPECTFULLY debate between each other. If you're in this thread, you're here to share your knowledge and learn just the same.

Okay, I'm just going to put this here because it has to do with the arguments that happen on a daily basis in the Battles section of CV. Characters are never agreed upon between Viners to have a specific level of strength. And this leads to flame wars, name calling, and ultimately CV battles being separated into groups that hate each other (Dragon Ballers, Narutards, Bleachers, DC Fanboys, Marvel Fanboys, ad infinitum) and it just serves to divide the community here (Which after a short time here, I myself find is great) I know having an all inclusive agreed-upon power level topic is fantasy, but I want to try and bring the Battles community together without our opinions getting heated. So I guess this thread is going to be a place to reference power levels for certain characters. I'm going to tag a few people I know (not very many) and I hope you all will feel free to call out the most logical people you know with an expertise on a series. There will not be any characters on this list to start out but feel free to bring up characters you feel should be included and want to have a place to come to see what people can agree on for their abilities. Provide scans, and logic to back up your claims to a character's capabilities. Mods, if you come across this thread and feel it should be somewhere else, please don't hesitate to do so or tell me to do so. I'm only putting this in the Battles forum because it pertains to the debates that go on here on a daily basis. Under NO circumstances is there to be bashing, name calling, series-hate, series-wank, or any other negativity in this thread. I will flag all such posts personally and I urge you all to do the same. If you feel yourself getting annoyed at another poster's logic, bring it up in a calm, collected manner and if this continues to fail, ignore that poster and let someone else debate with them. Let's take our differences and make something productive, instead of destructive. I appreciate you all remaining respectful and friendly. Remember, not knowing or being wrong is not bad, it just means you have the opportunity to learn from your fellow Viners. :)

Neat.

Cool idea. There have been a few threads like this though (I even made one), but no one ever seems to reach a consensus....good luck lol

Hawkeye - Skyfather level

@fatherchaos: Please provide scans, and logic to back up your claim for it to be considered. Unless you're just trolling, in which case you will be ignored anyway. :)

@buttersdaman000, @bluejay4: Thanks! I'm going to try my hardest to keep this thread civil, and with people able to acknowledge the differences between series. I feel like it could be a good resource if done correctly.

Everyone hates a low baller.

Hawkeye has feats showing him firing an arrow.

The Skyfather Nyambe has no feats that show him dodging or tanking an arrow. Obviously this means Hawkeye would defeat Nyambe.

@juxtmako: That logic is exactly the logic I'm trying to avoid lol...nice try trolling though.

@saint_of_origin: Firestorm is mid/high cosmic tier. Google firestorm respect thread (which I made) and you'll see why.

Superman is mid cosmic.

Martian Manhunter is high cosmic, as are silver surfer and nate grey.

@thenewbluebeetle007: Thanks for the input! I'll have a look at your thread when I can and update the OP accordingly. Again, trying to rate these guys based on the conditions in the OP. Destructive Capability, Defensive Capability, Speed, and Hax. What would you say Firestorm, Superman, Martian Manhunter, Silver Surfer, and Nate Grey are in terms of those? If you can provide scans for those other than Firestorm.

Ok (sorry for bad english)

@saint_of_origin: martian manhunter is just too damn versatile for most people to keep up. He's:

1. Used telepathy on reality warpers

2. Kept up with flash in combat speed

3. With superman, lifted a space ship 9x the size of the earth

4. He has invisibility, intangibility, and shape shifting

5. He also has telekinesis

@thenewbluebeetle007: Can you provide scans for those feats? Or perhaps tag a known expert on the field who might have scans? I really want this to be accurate to the source material. I will note all feats shown by scans on the OP

@saint_of_origin: Well i have seen/ read every portion of the source material (and non canon) for Dragon Ball Z, so i could put in alot of input their. And while i'm no expert I have read all of the Naruto Manga, and know alot about most of the characters in my bio.

For more DBZ... @Frisky4:

And @nickthedevil:

@cosmicallyaware1: for a ton of upper tier marvel characters

@Jashro44: is IMO our neighborhood street level expert

@icecold14: is easily the most knowledgable on Iceman and a ton of other X-men oriented things

@arcus: is the go to guy for anything and everything Avatar airbender and LOK related

@ghostravage: is the best Hulk debater, period. He'll definitely be able to rate him.

and there are so many more who are experts in thier own fields, just wanted to list out a few people who i thought could help you sith thier knowledge ln specific stuff.

@speedster101: Jashro doesn't want people tagging his main account. Currently he's on his alt (@44orhsaj) because he asked for a temp ban so he could focus on schoolwork.

@frisky4: Thanks for that info, I will remove his tag from the OP.

@saint_of_origin: Cool. I'll lay down what I think for DBZ since that's what I was tagged for.

@saint_of_origin: so power levels are determined by destructive capability?

@saint_of_origin: Ok, now that ive listed some more callouts for ya allow me to contribute to this myself...

First for Goku and Vegeta (and hinestly most of the upper tier DBZ cast). DBZ power output is a very hard thing gauge, but it can be... Fist off we know that Cell was capable of destroying the solar system (not necessarily completely vaporizing it, but leaving it in rubble) so thats multi-planet and Sun busting. But thats about the furthest we get based on feats. But its clear Goku and Vegeta get stronger than that later down the road, so i would put Goku and Vegeta at about the multi-star busting level (more than a solar system, but less than like a galaxy or something)

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111167265/3870060-3938657360-37004.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.comicvine.com/dragon-balls/4055-46445/forums/cell-can-destroy-a-solar-system-1570211/&h=768&w=474&tbnid=lNFnH1gD6SFD7M:&zoom=1&docid=JR7XdTe7SNKMAM&hl=en&ei=i7oYVf-2LceoNqu6hJAL&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CB0QMygAMAA

Heres the link. (Im on a hand held so i cant post the feat directly sorry).

And for speed, we know Goku was FTL, because during the 22nd budokai (i belive) he outruns Tiens solar flare. So Vegeta and Goku are MFTL.

Over all id put them at mid/ high herald tier.

Hope that helps! I might get some more stuff for some other characters later.

@helicoprion: Well I'm going to rate the characters how I've seen them debated many MANY times in my time here on CV. Destructive/Defensive capabilities are usually ranked in respect to each other. Planetbusting attack for Destructive, and if someone can tank a planetbusting attack, it means they're planetbusting for Defensive as well. Speed is usually measured by real world descriptive terms/situations (average human, bullet-timer, subsonic, hypersonic, lightspeed, FTL, etc.) and Hax are just going to be noted on each character individually. It's going to take a lot of work to keep this list like it is, but I really want it to be a useful resource so the hate in Battle threads between fandoms can end

@frisky4: Thank you! I appreciate it. Please provide scans and/or canon source material to back up claims!

@helicoprion: No, its based on a common ground found between hax and physical stats. It was explained in the great wall of text. XD

@frisky4: Ah, so thats why he made that, thanks for informing me, my bad.

@saint_of_origin: so how would you rank powers such as telepathy, time manipulation, astral manipulation etc

I don't think powers like that can be for destructive capabililities

@helicoprion: Those individual feats would go on the Hax description of each character. Because these are so varied between characters, grouping it into one category wouldn't really be fair. So I'll list any feats involving stuff like this next to the character, and it will provide a resource to compare to another character with a similar ability.

To everyone, I have to get off now, got work early in the morning, but please keep discussing and tagging! Remember no hate towards anyone, just ignore/flag posts that are obviously trolls or aggressive for no reason. I will keep this list as updated as I can throughout it's activity.

I'd rate One Punch Man a moon buster.

Bugs bunny is omniversal

@saint_of_origin: I already made a thread like this, so I can help you if you want.

Superman is a Moon Buster

Martian Manhunter is a Moon Buster or less because he hasn't had any exquisite striking feats

Thor is a planet buster

Hulk is a planet buster

Thanos is a planet Buster

Darkseid is a planet Buster

Flash is a hyperbole

@iragexcudder: Scans please? I appreciate the input but due to how easy it is to miscalculate, I don't think I'll update the OP without the proper scans.

@etheral_dreams: That would be helpful! Please remember to provide relevant scans/videos (anime non-filler eps are a relatively reliable source to use) so this thread goes off of fact directly from the source material, not assumptions. :)

@saint_of_origin: I would start at the bottom and work my way up, so I'll start with Jim Gordon as the lowest point of worthy combatant. He is capable of taking down a man who had several pounds on him and was a former Green Beret without too much effort. This occurred in Batman Year One. However, he isn't capable of defeating most.

Interestingly enough, MMH the moonbuster can defeat half the planet busters.

These things are determined through debating anyways which is why we have them. not through what people state.

@baron_von_santa: yes because punching isn't always the way to solve problems:) but Jonn has nothing extraordinary in the striking department

@iragexcudder: MMH has defeated Triumph, who has bested Superman in combat. Anyway, this is a power level rating, not a who can punch harder thread.

@saint_of_origin: Awesome idea! Hopefully it will work out.

I'd like to tag a few people I know are very knowledge about various Mangas and comics : @hulkage@sophia89@princearagorn1.

Also, about Naruto characters, @princearagorn1 already did a great job explaining their powers in another thread (I can't seem to find the link though).

i dare someone to rate batman

@ssj_god: Omnipotent with prep.

@saint_of_origin: For now, here is Uchiha Madara's power level :

Planetary telepathy (Infinite Tsukuyomi) :

Planetary Mokuton and Energy absorption : (Divine - Genesis of a world of Trees) :

Small country level gravity manipulation : (Chibaku Tensei)

Multi-Island+ Durability :

Tanks Naruto's Magma Rasenshuriken that one-shotted the Shinju

The Shinju was far larger than Might Guy's Hirudora :

Hirudora was larger than an island :

That's all for now. I'll probably add more feats later on, but most of the hax is really hard to classify...

@saint_of_origin: BTW, it's best to not tag people in your OP because we keep getting notifications each time you edit lol

@mudamudamuda: Lol oops, my bad.

@mudamudamuda:

For now, here are is Uchiha Madara's power level :

you forgot that you are talking about sage of 6 paths madara

@mudamudamuda: Thanks for the scans, I will update OP when I get home from work today. And Hax don't have to be classified, just state them and they'll be listed next to the character.

No worries lol

Sage Madara is still Madara ;)

No problem. I'll provide a list later then (unless someone else does, I'm rather lazy lol).

@mudamudamuda said:

@ssj_god said:

@mudamudamuda:

For now, here are is Uchiha Madara's power level :

you forgot that you are talking about sage of 6 paths madara

Sage Madara is still Madara ;)

lmao... alright... though that's not really the version people think of when someone say madara uchiha.. that one is a super amped version :D

@ssj_god said:

@mudamudamuda said:

@ssj_god said:

@mudamudamuda:

For now, here are is Uchiha Madara's power level :

you forgot that you are talking about sage of 6 paths madara

Sage Madara is still Madara ;)

lmao... alright... though that's not really the version people think of when someone say madara uchiha.. that one is a super amped version :D

Actually, I very rarely see standard Madara being used in these threads. Juubi Madara is used far more often from what I know. Fine anyway, I'll also post some of standard Madara's feats when I get more free time.

In DBZ, It takes a power level of 139 to destroy a moon, anyone with a power level of 11,259 can destroy planet earth, you would need a power level of 3.3 billion to destroy the sun (which would take most of the solar system with it).

I predict that SSJ3 Goku would be a multi solar system buster, AS for SSJgod, who knows.....

Nothing in the Manga contradicts this.

@redranger: Power levels have been stated by Akira Toriyama to be an ironic plot point, rather than valid measures of power, using them is not a very reliable source.

@saint_of_origin:

white dino power ranger is a high street level character.... have enhanced strength, durability.... have superfast speed/agility/reflex.... and have a versatile weapon (a sword)... upon combining with his zords, he becomes multi-building to city block level destroyer.

Normal humans are what, a 5 PL? Someone do the math cuz it'll break my brain

normal humans are insignificant in dbz power level... they doesn't get spotted in the scouters...lol

@iragexcudder: Please refer to my reply to Redranger, power levels are not credible pieces of data to determine strength.