Power Girl VS Aizen

No prep, in Metropolis.

Win by death, KO, etc.

Who will win?

Power Girl.

I hate to say it but, If Aizen can do his Shikai, he cold win. It comes down to who attacks who first... Aizen is cocky though so that might cost him.

Aizen curbstomps with absolute hypnosis and I doubt Power Girl would be able to put him down for good.

Scenarios are really important in Aizen fights. If he has no knowledge of who she is or what her powers are, he's not very likely to use his Shikai on what he sees as a normal human. Powergirl would probably see him as some weird dude with a sword. Aizen would Flashstep behind her and try to slice her, she'd react and swat him away. When she realizes he's dangerous (considering Flash steps are PRESUMABLY pretty fast, even by superhero standards) she'd probably give him a serious beatdown to try to KO. Powergirl would lay off the hits because, if she's in character, she's not likely to go for the kill. Aizen would begin regenerating non lethal damage thanks to the Hogyoku, and, assuming he never let go of his sword during the fight and realizing she's got him outmatched in speed, strength, and reaction time, he'd do the whole "This is my sword, it's named Kyouka Suigetsu" and she'd give him a cross look.

At this point Aizen starts bragging about how he's already won. When Powergirl goes to punch him, he's never there. She gets hit with some kido, maybe smacked around or cut up with Kyouka Suigetsu, but I'm not QUITE sure Aizen has the ability to kill her unless his ghost sword can pierce her Kryptonian durability. It'd be a long drawn out fight until Aizen gives up and leaves or finds a way to kill her.

Aizen cant be killed or knocked out. He is Doomsday on steroids he evolves instantly and there is no way to kill him or Ko. he can be only sealed with very strong magic.

Powergirl. She's faster, stronger, and has multiple other powers. He wouldn't be able to keep up with her, wouldn't be able to hurt her, and she could pretty much just burn him to a crisp. Any kido he'd try on her she could just break out of.

Power Girl speed blitzes him.

@rpottage said:

Powergirl. She's faster, stronger, and has multiple other powers. He wouldn't be able to keep up with her, wouldn't be able to hurt her, and she could pretty much just burn him to a crisp. Any kido he'd try on her she could just break out of.

This

Aizen can mess with Kryptonians now?

Lol.

Aizen ftw

@BlackWind: He's never used his power on a Kyptonian before, there's no reason to think it wouldn't work.

@Dredeuced said:

Scenarios are really important in Aizen fights. If he has no knowledge of who she is or what her powers are, he's not very likely to use his Shikai on what he sees as a normal human. Powergirl would probably see him as some weird dude with a sword. Aizen would Flashstep behind her and try to slice her, she'd react and swat him away. When she realizes he's dangerous (considering Flash steps are PRESUMABLY pretty fast, even by superhero standards) she'd probably give him a serious beatdown to try to KO. Powergirl would lay off the hits because, if she's in character, she's not likely to go for the kill. Aizen would begin regenerating non lethal damage thanks to the Hogyoku, and, assuming he never let go of his sword during the fight and realizing she's got him outmatched in speed, strength, and reaction time, he'd do the whole "This is my sword, it's named Kyouka Suigetsu" and she'd give him a cross look.

At this point Aizen starts bragging about how he's already won. When Powergirl goes to punch him, he's never there. She gets hit with some kido, maybe smacked around or cut up with Kyouka Suigetsu, but I'm not QUITE sure Aizen has the ability to kill her unless his ghost sword can pierce her Kryptonian durability. It'd be a long drawn out fight until Aizen gives up and leaves or finds a way to kill her.

How fast do you think Bleach characters are? I don't think they're as fast as Power Girl. And I would think that once Aizen starts regenerating, she would begin with the heat vision and/or ice breath.

@D3athstroke said:

Aizen cant be killed or knocked out. He is Doomsday on steroids he evolves instantly and there is no way to kill him or Ko. he can be only sealed with very strong magic.

Saying this is hyperbolic is an understatement. Just because no one in the Bleach-verse has the means to kill him doesn't mean he can't be killed.

Power Girl ftw

@uberhikari: I agree, that's why I said she swats him away when he goes to attack her -- she should definitely have better reaction speed considering the only thing we know about flash steps is they allow you to move "faster than the eye can see." That's pretty fast, but is too vague to assume it's faster than Kryptonians.

Powergirl probably wouldn't be going for more lethal attacks against a guy she could easily ovwerpower with speed and punches. She'd assume he was KO'd after a pretty nasty beatdown like I said in my argument. Using Kyouka Suigetsu shouldn't be too hard for Aizen after that point, because he's pretty good at acting harmless, and would probably do so after the beating. It's not like Powergirl would have any reason to be afraid of a guy holding his sword backwards.

Also, if no one in the bleachverse has the means to kill him, that's pretty impressive. Yamamoto's explicitly stated has having the heat of the sun in his bankai, so that means Aizen SHOULD be able to come back from Heat vision. He can also effortlessly smash Hitsugaya's ice, though I'm not sure how it compares to Kryptonian ice breath.

@Dredeuced said:

@uberhikari: I agree, that's why I said she swats him away when he goes to attack her -- she should definitely have better reaction speed considering the only thing we know about flash steps is they allow you to move "faster than the eye can see." That's pretty fast, but is too vague to assume it's faster than Kryptonians.

Powergirl probably wouldn't be going for more lethal attacks against a guy she could easily ovwerpower with speed and punches. She'd assume he was KO'd after a pretty nasty beatdown like I said in my argument. Using Kyouka Suigetsu shouldn't be too hard for Aizen after that point, because he's pretty good at acting harmless, and would probably do so after the beating. It's not like Powergirl would have any reason to be afraid of a guy holding his sword backwards.

Also, if no one in the bleachverse has the means to kill him, that's pretty impressive. Yamamoto's explicitly stated has having the heat of the sun in his bankai, so that means Aizen SHOULD be able to come back from Heat vision. He can also effortlessly smash Hitsugaya's ice, though I'm not sure how it compares to Kryptonian ice breath.

First of all heatvision can be hotter than the sun, and show me proof of Yamamotos bankai having the heat of the sun? A statement isn't fact.

@ComocYahweh said:

@Dredeuced said:

@uberhikari: I agree, that's why I said she swats him away when he goes to attack her -- she should definitely have better reaction speed considering the only thing we know about flash steps is they allow you to move "faster than the eye can see." That's pretty fast, but is too vague to assume it's faster than Kryptonians.

Powergirl probably wouldn't be going for more lethal attacks against a guy she could easily ovwerpower with speed and punches. She'd assume he was KO'd after a pretty nasty beatdown like I said in my argument. Using Kyouka Suigetsu shouldn't be too hard for Aizen after that point, because he's pretty good at acting harmless, and would probably do so after the beating. It's not like Powergirl would have any reason to be afraid of a guy holding his sword backwards.

Also, if no one in the bleachverse has the means to kill him, that's pretty impressive. Yamamoto's explicitly stated has having the heat of the sun in his bankai, so that means Aizen SHOULD be able to come back from Heat vision. He can also effortlessly smash Hitsugaya's ice, though I'm not sure how it compares to Kryptonian ice breath.

First of all heatvision can be hotter than the sun, and show me proof of Yamamotos bankai having the heat of the sun? A statement isn't fact.

^^This. Plus your scenario for the fight has holes in it. You say that Powergirl wouldn't use more lethal attacks against someone she could easily overpower with speed and punches, but this would only be true once she realized that Aizen can't be taken down by speed and punches and then starts regenerating the damage. After that, it's heat vision and ice breath. Moreover, I don't see why Powergirl would just assume that Aizen was KO'd after a beatdown, especially once he starts moving around to get up.

Question: Who is the strongest person that Kyouka Suigetsu would work on?

@uberhikari: You guys legitimately think Powergirl's going to, after manhandling a dude who she sees as much weaker then her, try to kill him with heatvision because he regenerated? I know Powergirl's pretty brazen, but she rarely goes for the kill 10 seconds into a fight that she's dominating. She's much more likely to brag and tell him to stand down/give up. Hero and all. There's no reason to assume Yamamoto's bankai wasn't as hot as he said, considering anything that touched it vaporized and its mere presence vaporized all moisture in atleast the gotei 13 barracks area to the point where you couldn't even make magical ice (Heat vision rarely does that, but it's also more controlled so eh). While you're right that Heat vision can be hotter than that, there's no upper limit given to Aizen's regeneration. He's got a magic, indestructible wish ball fused with him. It's hard to quantify because no, Bleach doesn't have people as powerful as powerhouse comic characters, so it's speculation.

There's no reason to think he was lying when he said his bankai was 15,000,000 degrees. It would explain why anything that touched it (like steel swords) didn't boil away like it was being heated to its boiling point of 3,000 degrees, it just vanished, vaporized into nothing -- that's what that amount of heat would do to any actual thing that touched it. It's the same with heat vision feats -- they say "It's hotter than the sun!" without clearly defining it, because anything that gets above 5,000 Kelvin would boil diamonds. And, presumably, this couldn't kill Aizen because herp derp immortality granted by a dumb magic ball.

Answer to your question: The strongest person who uses their eyes and senses to fight? That's an ambiguous question, there's perceptibly no limit to who Kyouka Suigetsu can work on, so long as they can see it. Heck it worked on a freaking skeleton who doesn't even have eyes. It'd be ineffective against someone with Telepathy, probably. So it might not work on Charles Xavier, but could work on Superman. Power is relative when you're talking about manipulating powers.

@Dredeuced:

You guys legitimately think Powergirl's going to, after manhandling a dude who she sees as much weaker then her, try to kill him with heatvision because he regenerated?

No, I never said this. I said Powergirl would use heat vision, I never said she would try to kill Aizen with heat vision. These are two different things. You have the burden of proving that after Powergirl beats Aizen down and Aizen starts getting up and regenerating that she will just continue to engage in h2h. Aizen certainly looks like a normal human, but the regeneration would make Powergirl question this. Thus, the regeneration alone might be enough to make Powergirl start using heat vision and/or ice breath.

She's much more likely to brag and tell him to stand down/give up. Hero and all.

I've seen you make arguments like this before, and it's rather irritating. CIS and PIS are automatically turned off in fights. The only in-character actions that matter in vs matches are things that characters do with respect to how they use their powers/abilities in a fight. Making the argument that characters will stand around making super hero speeches is not a very convincing argument.

There's no reason to assume Yamamoto's bankai wasn't as hot as he said, considering anything that touched it vaporized and its mere presence vaporized all moisture in atleast the gotei 13 barracks area to the point where you couldn't even make magical ice (Heat vision rarely does that, but it's also more controlled so eh). While you're right that Heat vision can be hotter than that, there's no upper limit given to Aizen's regeneration. He's got a magic, indestructible wish ball fused with him. It's hard to quantify because no, Bleach doesn't have people as powerful as powerhouse comic characters, so it's speculation.

First, I've seen you debate a few times and you have a way of arguing based on hyperbole rather than strict facts, and this style of arguing makes it very difficult to distinguish fact from your hyperbolic interpretations of peoples' power. The hougyoku is not a "magic, indestructible wish ball". That's not what it is and that's not how it works. So, when you say it's hard to quantify Aizen's powers, well, yes it is when you tend to use hyperbole rather than facts.

Second, when a character makes a claim, in the absence of evidence supporting the claim, there's no reason why we ought to take the claim at face value. In vs matches the weakest form of evidence is character statement. Moreover, even though Yamamoto's bankai vaporized everything it touched in Soul Society, that was Soul Society. The place is made out of pure reiatsu so it's not implausible that the place reacts to the reiatsu of a bankai release. In Ishida's fight with Mayuri he was literally able to convert pieces of the surrounding buildings into reiatsu to power his bow. There's no evidence that Yamamoto can vaporize anything in the real world, so it's not clear how hot his bankai can get.

Third, just because there's no upper limit given to Aizen's regeneration, that doesn't mean that you can speculate such an upper limit. A character only possesses the amount of durability they've displayed. Nothing more and nothing less. Furthermore, the Yamamoto bankai stuff isn't even relevant here because there's no evidence that Aizen ever withstood heat of that magnitude. You don't know what the characters in Bleach did to Aizen to try and kill him and you can't speculate about what they may or may not have done to try and kill him. Also, Yamamoto stated that his bankai reached temperatures of 15 million degrees, but the core of the sun is 27 million degrees and heat vision can be hotter than that.

Answer to your question: The strongest person who uses their eyes and senses to fight? That's an ambiguous question, there's perceptibly no limit to who Kyouka Suigetsu can work on, so long as they can see it. Heck it worked on a freaking skeleton who doesn't even have eyes. It'd be ineffective against someone with Telepathy, probably. So it might not work on Charles Xavier, but could work on Superman. Power is relative when you're talking about manipulating powers.

Again, can you please stop it with the hyperbole? Baraggan doesn't have eye balls, this is true, but he still has the ability to see, unlike Tousen who flat out does not possess the perceptive faculty of sight. Therefore, based on this, we can infer that sight is a prerequisite for the activation of Kyouka Suigetsu, since Tousen was never under its influence.

Second, the reason why I asked this question is because all powers/abilities need to have a definable limit, otherwise you're walking into the territory of a no limits fallacy. Molecule Man can see, he doesn't possess TP, so do you think Kyouka Suigetsu would work on him? I think you would be hard pressed to claim that Aizen can stalemate a cosmic cube being because he can use Kyouka Suigetsu.

Lol first off a normal human cannot touch a shinigami at all. Second what is stopping Aizen from crushing Power Girl with spirtual pressure alone.

@uberhikari said:

@Dredeuced:

You guys legitimately think Powergirl's going to, after manhandling a dude who she sees as much weaker then her, try to kill him with heatvision because he regenerated?

No, I never said this. I said Powergirl would use heat vision, I never said she would try to kill Aizen with heat vision. These are two different things. You have the burden of proving that after Powergirl beats Aizen down and Aizen starts getting up and regenerating that she will just continue to engage in h2h. Aizen certainly looks like a normal human, but the regeneration would make Powergirl question this. Thus, the regeneration alone might be enough to make Powergirl start using heat vision and/or ice breath.

I don't think she would, Heat Vision is scary, lethal stuff and Powergirl is very, very rare to use it unless she's going up against someone she's sure can take it without killing them (really heavy bruisers that Aizen would be nothing like, considering how she'd manhandle him from the start).

@uberhikari said:

I've seen you make arguments like this before, and it's rather irritating. CIS and PIS are automatically turned off in fights. The only in-character actions that matter in vs matches are things that characters do with respect to how they use their powers/abilities in a fight. Making the argument that characters will stand around making super hero speeches is not a very convincing argument.

It's not CIS(CIS is when a character conveniently forgets they have a power, not when they refuse to use it for fear of killing) or PIS, if she's in character she's not going to use her most lethal attack on someone because they got up from getting smacked around by her. She WOULD stop beating on him because, well, dudes go down when Supergirl punches them. Aizen getting up and holding his sword upside down is not some cue for her to go "Boy I better try to kill him with Heat Vision" because Heat vision is freaking lethal and she'd have no idea if he could survive it. At most, if she saw him get up, she'd start punching again. This is how all Kryptonian random encounters go, even with normal thugs. You don't think any argument that disagrees with you is convincing, it's not like I'm saying Aizen would beat a bloodlusted Kryptonian -- I'm not even sure he could kill her if he got his hypnosis off on a non-bloodlusted version like this fight.

@uberhikari said:

First, I've seen you debate a few times and you have a way of arguing based on hyperbole rather than strict facts, and this style of arguing makes it very difficult to distinguish fact from your hyperbolic interpretations of peoples' power. The hougyoku is not a "magic, indestructible wish ball". That's not what it is and that's not how it works. So, when you say it's hard to quantify Aizen's powers, well, yes it is when you tend to use hyperbole rather than facts.

Glad you're getting personal. What would you describe the Hogyoku as? As far as the media has said, it's indestructible even by the guy who created it. Its only stated power is granting the desire of the one in possession of it, even if they're dead. I don't know how else to describe it except a heretofore considered indestructible wish ball. And it works in an unexplained way, which people usually describe as magic. Sorry if that description bugs you, but it's not hyperbole. It might be taking the media's description of it too literally, but nothing I said about it was blown out of proportion given the knowledge we have of it.

@uberhikari said:

Second, when a character makes a claim, in the absence of evidence supporting the claim, there's no reason why we ought to take the claim at face value. In vs matches the weakest form of evidence is character statement. Moreover, even though Yamamoto's bankai vaporized everything it touched in Soul Society, that was Soul Society. The place is made out of pure reiatsu so it's not implausible that the place reacts to the reiatsu of a bankai release. In Ishida's fight with Mayuri he was literally able to convert pieces of the surrounding buildings into reiatsu to power his bow. There's no evidence that Yamamoto can vaporize anything in the real world, so it's not clear how hot his bankai can get.

Then why do people think Heat Vision is hotter than the Sun when the only thing we have to go on it is in character statements? If it was really hotter than the sun, then using it would cause freaking fusion reactions, but it doesn't because we understand that comics defy general logic to prop up absurd powers, which is why Yamamoto could get away with having a 15million degree bankai despite not just melting into the ground, yet his heat can evaporate all moisture in a several mile radius.

Also, you talk to me about making stuff up, here you are saying that, maybe Soul Society works differently and his heat generation isn't like heat at all, despite it specifically affecting moisture. And Yamamoto can only hurt things made out of reiatsu? It's purely implausible, you're completely making stuff up. Ishida's powers would be like matter manipulation in a world where, instead of atoms, it's spiritrons. You're making an absurd amount of assumptions about how their powers work. I mean if you're going to stick to this point, then Aizen is a Shinigami and Powergirl wouldn't even be able to see him because they're invisible to people who aren't spiritually aware. She wouldn't even know it's a fight! We're to assume, in these fights, the characters can interact normally. Is that too much to ask?

@uberhikari said:

Third, just because there's no upper limit given to Aizen's regeneration, that doesn't mean that you can speculate such an upper limit. A character only possesses the amount of durability they've displayed. Nothing more and nothing less. Furthermore, the Yamamoto bankai stuff isn't even relevant here because there's no evidence that Aizen ever withstood heat of that magnitude. You don't know what the characters in Bleach did to Aizen to try and kill him and you can't speculate about what they may or may not have done to try and kill him. Also, Yamamoto stated that his bankai reached temperatures of 15 million degrees, but the core of the sun is 27 million degrees and heat vision can be hotter than that.

Why not? When Wonder Woman says Zoom hits harder than Superman, should we discredit it because Zoom never broke a mountain and it was only stated? And come on, are you seriously being that naive? Yamamoto specifically wanted to kill Aizen, but they outright stated they couldn't because of his "immortality." It is inferred, despite not being outright stated. You'd think if they wanted to kill him it'd be pretty easy to just have Yamamoto poke Aizen's restrained face with his stupid bankai to kill him, unless he was unkillable by any means they had. You're right, I am inferring stuff, but it's not illogical or unfair inference. Show me a scan of Heat Vision being hotter than the Sun when the proof wasn't someone just stating it was -- . And even then, I'm skeptical that Powergirl would resort to using it against someone who poses no physical threat to her. When was the last time she did that? Aizen's regeneration is, so far, coming back from being dead after having his torso removed. I don't actually think Aizen is particularly durable per se, just that his magic ball makes him come back stronger whenever he's getting his butt whooped.

@uberhikari said:

Again, can you please stop it with the hyperbole? Baraggan doesn't have eye balls, this is true, but he still has the ability to see, unlike Tousen who flat out does not possess the perceptive faculty of sight. Therefore, based on this, we can infer that sight is a prerequisite for the activation of Kyouka Suigetsu, since Tousen was never under its influence.

Second, the reason why I asked this question is because all powers/abilities need to have a definable limit, otherwise you're walking into the territory of a no limits fallacy. Molecule Man can see, he doesn't possess TP, so do you think Kyouka Suigetsu would work on him? I think you would be hard pressed to claim that Aizen can stalemate a cosmic cube being because he can use Kyouka Suigetsu.

I was being coy, which I should really learn not to do with you because you're really prickly about anime fights. You're right that Molecule Man could probably get around Kyouka Suigetsu by remaking the entire galaxy around him and catching Aizen regardless of how hypnotized he is. That's why I said it's all relative based on the powers of the person he's using it on. It'd probably WORK on Molecule Man, if he sees and uses his senses normally, but he could circumvent it with his absurd power. It probably wouldn't work on Surfer considering Aizen only controls normal senses and not cosmic sense, if you want an example of someone it would affect, but not really work on.

@Dredeuced:

I don't think she would, Heat Vision is scary, lethal stuff and Powergirl is very, very rare to use it unless she's going up against someone she's sure can take it without killing them (really heavy bruisers that Aizen would be nothing like, considering how she'd manhandle him from the start).

This doesn't make any sense. Do realize how high this standard is? You're basically saying that Powergirl will not use any power/ability unless she's absolutely sure she won't kill someone when she uses it. If this was the case, then she couldn't even use super strength for fear that she might punch someone's head in. I'm really going to need scans to prove this is the standard that Powergirl uses to engage in fights.

It's not CIS(CIS is when a character conveniently forgets they have a power, not when they refuse to use it for fear of killing) or PIS, if she's in character she's not going to use her most lethal attack on someone because they got up from getting smacked around by her. She WOULD stop beating on him because, well, dudes go down when Supergirl punches them. Aizen getting up and holding his sword upside down is not some cue for her to go "Boy I better try to kill him with Heat Vision" because Heat vision is freaking lethal and she'd have no idea if he could survive it. At most, if she saw him get up, she'd start punching again. This is how all Kryptonian random encounters go, even with normal thugs. You don't think any argument that disagrees with you is convincing, it's not like I'm saying Aizen would beat a bloodlusted Kryptonian -- I'm not even sure he could kill her if he got his hypnosis off on a non-bloodlusted version like this fight.

First, CIS isn't just when a character forgets they have a power, it's when a character engages in behavior that leads them to lose a fight that they could or should otherwise win. Standing around making super hero speeches clearly falls under CIS. In vs matches it's assumed that the combatants are doing their best to win the fight, that's sort of the whole purpose of positing these hypothetical matchups. You can continue to argue (in this and other threads) that superhero characters will be taken by surprise because they will be standing around making super hero speeches, but it's a completely unconvincing argument because you can't use "super hero speeches" as a plot device for why a character's opponent might gain the upperhand in a fight.

Second, again, stop using straw man fallacies. I said this very specifically in my last response, and I'll say it again: I never said Powergirl would try to kill Aizen with heat vision, I said she would use heat vision. For the last time, those are 2 different things. If Powergirl sees someone getting up and regenerating I think that might be a cue to start amping up the attacks. Moreover, like I said last time, you have the burden of proof here: you have the burden of proving that if Powergirl punched somebody and they got up and regenerated that she would just continue to punch them indefinitely, all the while refusing to use heat vision for fear she might kill them.

Third, your whole bit about normal thugs is irrelevant. Aizen isn't a normal thug.

Fourth, I never said you said Aizen would beat Powergirl. Again, this is just another straw man fallacy. However, I think at best this fight is a stalemate because Aizen has never shown any attacks that can hurt somebody with Powergirl's durability.

Glad you're getting personal. What would you describe the Hogyoku as? As far as the media has said, it's indestructible even by the guy who created it. Its only stated power is granting the desire of the one in possession of it, even if they're dead. I don't know how else to describe it except a heretofore considered indestructible wish ball. And it works in an unexplained way, which people usually describe as magic. Sorry if that description bugs you, but it's not hyperbole. It might be taking the media's description of it too literally, but nothing I said about it was blown out of proportion given the knowledge we have of it.

It's nice to see you're starting with the obfuscation. I explained how I bristle at your use of unnecessary hyperbolic language that mischaracterizes the powers/abilities of some characters, and instead of owning up to your language you say I'm getting personal? The only reason why I mentioned your language is because it gets harder to properly assess a character's capabilities when someone is constantly fudging said character's abilities. Like in another thread you said that Szayel could destroy someone's organs by touching them. You're doing the same thing here, again. Like I said, the hougyoku is not a "magic, indestructible wish ball," because if it was Aizen would have been able to get out of Urahara's kidou, but he couldn't. In fact, Aizen was imprisoned, so unless you think it is Aizen's desire to be imprisoned while people try to figure out ways to kill him, then the hougyoku doesn't just grant the user's wish. You make it seem like Aizen can wish for a black hole to swallow Powergirl. It's clear that even the hougyoku has limits, otherwise Aizen could have just wished for enough power to destroy the Earth or wished that he was immune to all kidou, or some such nonsense.

Then why do people think Heat Vision is hotter than the Sun when the only thing we have to go on it is in character statements? If it was really hotter than the sun, then using it would cause freaking fusion reactions, but it doesn't because we understand that comics defy general logic to prop up absurd powers, which is why Yamamoto could get away with having a 15million degree bankai despite not just melting into the ground, yet his heat can evaporate all moisture in a several mile radius.

This would be a legitimate argument if we didn't have feats backing the statements. Yamamoto has no feats backing his statement that his flames are 15 million degrees. Absolutely none. I've already explained why him vaporizing everything in Soul Society isn't that impressive, what more can I say? I don't dispute that his flames are hot, I don't even dispute that his flames are 15 million degrees, I'm just saying that there's no way to know because he has no impressive feats with his flames. Moreover, it's sort of unfair, but American comic books generally have narrators who tell the readers precisely what powers/abilities the characters have. Also, temperature by itself doesn't cause fusion reactions (unless the temperatures are several times hotter than the core of the Sun), what causes fusion in the Sun is the pressure of gravity that literally smooshes the hydrogen atoms together.

Also, you talk to me about making stuff up, here you are saying that, maybe Soul Society works differently and his heat generation isn't like heat at all, despite it specifically affecting moisture. And Yamamoto can only hurt things made out of reiatsu? It's purely implausible, you're completely making stuff up. Ishida's powers would be like matter manipulation in a world where, instead of atoms, it's spiritrons. You're making an absurd amount of assumptions about how their powers work. I mean if you're going to stick to this point, then Aizen is a Shinigami and Powergirl wouldn't even be able to see him because they're invisible to people who aren't spiritually aware. She wouldn't even know it's a fight! We're to assume, in these fights, the characters can interact normally. Is that too much to ask?

First, I never implied that you made up anything.

Second, I know for a fact Soul Society is not like a regular place with regular structures. Everything in Soul Society is made out of reiatsu, and if you have enough reiatsu, it doesn't matter what the ability of your zanpakutou is, you will be able to destroy those structures. Again, this was proven when Ishida fought Mayuri. Moreover, I never implied that Yamamoto's bankai wouldn't work in the real world. Do you have some sort of knack for straw man fallacies? It may very well be the case that Yamamoto can vaporize concrete in the real world, but that wouldn't be proof of how hot his flames were because you don't need 15 million degrees to vaporize concrete.

Why not? When Wonder Woman says Zoom hits harder than Superman, should we discredit it because Zoom never broke a mountain and it was only stated? And come on, are you seriously being that naive? Yamamoto specifically wanted to kill Aizen, but they outright stated they couldn't because of his "immortality." It is inferred, despite not being outright stated. You'd think if they wanted to kill him it'd be pretty easy to just have Yamamoto poke Aizen's restrained face with his stupid bankai to kill him, unless he was unkillable by any means they had. You're right, I am inferring stuff, but it's not illogical or unfair inference. Show me a scan of Heat Vision being hotter than the Sun when the proof wasn't someone just stating it was -- . And even then, I'm skeptical that Powergirl would resort to using it against someone who poses no physical threat to her. When was the last time she did that? Aizen's regeneration is, so far, coming back from being dead after having his torso removed. I don't actually think Aizen is particularly durable per se, just that his magic ball makes him come back stronger whenever he's getting his butt whooped.

Are you seriously asking me why you can't speculate an upper limit? Come on now. If anybody could just speculate about the upper limit of a person's power then someone could argue that Aizen can't be de-atomized even though he's never displayed such durability. Or someone could argue that the hougyoku will make it possible for Aizen to survive inside a black hole. Or someone could argue that Aizen could tank a quasar. It's called a no limits fallacy. And this is what you're using right now. In a vs match the most important thing is feats, beyond what feats are shown (and the use of powerscaling where applicable), we simply can't know what the upper limits of a person's power is, but that doesn't mean we can substitute speculation for absence of knowledge. That's not how vs debates work.

So, again, you can't speculate what the characters in Soul Society did to try and kill Aizen. I don't know and you don't know. Therefore, you can't postulate how high Aizen's durability is. A character can't be low-balled but you can't high-ball a character either. You can't make speculations about what might have been done to a character and then say that because a character survived these speculative things that they, therefore, possess these durability feats. It's like giving a character imaginary feats. Moreover, what you're doing is doubly worse because you're compounding speculation with speculation. A) you have no evidence (in the way of feats) for how hot Yamamoto's flames are and B) you can't claim that Aizen withstood Yamamoto's flames, therefore C) you can't claim that Aizen can withstand 15 million degrees. Both A + B are speculative, therefore, the conclusion C is super speculative. The only thing you can say is that the characters in Soul Society have not found a way to kill Aizen. It's as vague as that. Otherwise you can argue they tried to de-atomize Aizen but failed, therefore, Aizen can't be de-atomized.

Now, in the case of Zoom we actually have a feat. Zoom punched Wonder Woman in the face and Wonder Woman made a comparison between Zoom's punch and Superman's punch. We take it for granted that Wonder Woman is in a position to judge the feat. It's not just a statement or speculation. Zoom punched Wonder Woman. Even if you were to claim that Wonder Woman is wrong about her assessment, we would still be able to infer that Zoom has class 100 striking strength because he hurt Wonder Woman.

I was being coy, which I should really learn not to do with you because you're really prickly about anime fights. You're right that Molecule Man could probably get around Kyouka Suigetsu by remaking the entire galaxy around him and catching Aizen regardless of how hypnotized he is. That's why I said it's all relative based on the powers of the person he's using it on. It'd probably WORK on Molecule Man, if he sees and uses his senses normally, but he could circumvent it with his absurd power. It probably wouldn't work on Surfer considering Aizen only controls normal senses and not cosmic sense, if you want an example of someone it would affect, but not really work on.

So, you are admitting that Kyouka Suigetsu would work on cosmic cube beings? Are you saying that Kyouka Suigetsu would work on anybody who has the ability to see but does not possess telepathy or some other cosmic sense?

You win via exhaustion. I could keep arguing but it's a bit too tedious.

Not so fast. I believe Aizen would indeed win.

Since we are assuming they are able to fight in the first place, we can safely say, yes, Power Girl can in fact see and touch him normally.

The facts:

Aizen's ability to create illusions can only be utilized once someone has seen his shikai. Once this has been accomplished, he has full control over another's senses (i.e. the five senses) so it is not only an optical illusion; it is a form of perfect hypnosis. Note that a known weakness of Krytonians is mind control. Also note that Aizen is a master of kido, (read: magic) and has been shown in canon to be able to use it to great effect. Magic is also a known weakness of Kryptonians.

If Aizen is able to effectively initiate his shikai, OR shut down Power Girl soon enough with magic, the victory is his.

As a Kryptonian, Power Girl is obviously strong enough to shatter mountains. Against super strength, Aizen would fair about as well as Superman in terms of pure physical durability not factoring in his regeneration. I cite Aizen's last battle with Ichigo; Ichigo was capable of casually slicing mountain tops clean through at what appeared to be a distance of at least several kilometers. Ichigo's most powerful attack, Mugetsu (arguably the most damaging thing Aizen ever faced), is implied to have been able to wipe an entire town off the map if he had misaimed it. If he had not regenerated, it is safe to say Aizen would have died from that hit. If Power Girl could muster enough energy to follow up such an attack, whether inflicted by heatvision or other means, it is fair to say she could win. However, the only example we have of power of such magnitude from a Kryptonian left said Kryptonian in a very weakened state.

If Power Girl can follow up with consistent massive damage to overcome regeneration, the victory is hers. Throwing Aizen into the Sun, and keeping him there sufficiently long, can be considered a win for Power Girl as well. However, outside of this, Aizen could very well win, even if only by attrition.

Aizen's projectile/beam "Cero" is theoretically capable of blasting apart mountains easily as well (note that the next most powerful cero known, the Gran Rey Cero, is explicitly stated to warp reality around it with its sheer power.) It has a charge time, however, so it can be interrupted via super speedy attacks. In this case, if hit by such an attack, Power Girl would likely be, at the least, stunned momentarily so that Aizen could finish her off. However, the use of, say, ice breath to interrupt and immobilize Aizen to set up for the kill might give the edge to Power Girl, if Aizen does not break free. Note that there is no example of ice breath holding a Kryptonian-level person for a significant amount of time and it has to be applied for a considerable duration to have full effect. It would also melt if faced with the heat of the Sun, taking out a major kill option, but simply immobilizing him sufficiently would count as a win, as that is how he is canonically defeated.

If Power Girl can avoid taking too much damage, and can subdue Aizen long enough to freeze him solid, the victory is hers. If she can not, Aizen has the means to damage her consistently enough to win.

Final Points: Super Speed vs Spiritual Pressure

If a truly berzerked Krytonian were to utilize they're full speed and strength, it would leave few openings. However, one must account for Aizen's massive spiritual pressure. Note canonically his spiritual pressure was great enough to kill normal beings by his pressence alone. Spiritual pressure has also been used as a means to incapacitate lesser foes. Accounting for that, we can assume Power Girl would not be able to maintain full speed without accruing fatigue. Also consider the shunpo, "flash step." Even though it is only used in bursts, it has been shown to be fast enough to leave afterimages and is not directly traceable by the naked eye. Sure, the Flash is fast enough to keep up, but the Flash has proven to be many times faster than a Kryptonian.

Final verdict: If Power Girl can keep the pressure on from the get go and follow up massive damage, immobilize Aizen, and/or trap him in the Sun, victory is hers.

If Aizen can successfully activate his shikai, surprise her with magic, or outlast her with regeneration, victory is his.

Aizen was stated to be immortal guys ie, regenerating after entire body blown up. Full power Aizen disintegrates low spiritual energy beings from being near them... Power Girl doesn't have spiritual energy...

Power Girl ftw.

I MAY be wrong, but... can't aizen just take her soul.. being a reaper and all?

Aizen

Pg