Power Girl (New 52) VS Wonder Woman (New 52)

@frozen: There is no evidence for E2 Superman/Brutaal being able to beat Zod and Faora...

@boringperson: .....Yes there is. He's more powerful than Prime Earth Superman, by quite a considerable margin, Zod and Foara never beat Superman, they wailed on a Superman that wasn't even fighting back. Their power levels are actually below Kal.

Brutaal would stomp them into the ground, or with Omega Vision.

Then in the second fight, Zod was amped (Apollo confirmed it). It's interesting, because Wonder Woman's plan to ''absorb hits'' really seems unncessary if she could just solo them like the first time (she didn't, because they were amped).

Zod and Foara are below New-52 Ultraman (Ultraman's not a jobber anymore like Pre-Flashpoint version, in fact he moved The Moon with one arm while weakened and Johns confirmed he's basically New-52 Superman without morals, he's very formidable at this point).

Kryptonian power levelling, bar H'el seems to be:

Brutaal > New-52 Superman = Ultraman > Zod and Foara > Power Girl > Supergirl.

@sc: Hey I just made a statement that could have been taking offensively or as a joke.He chose the earlier one.Anyways it won't happen again.

@frozen: Superman and Wonder Woman's first fight with Zod and Faora was not indicative of Zod and Faora's normal strength. They were both fresh out of the Phantom Zone and had very little total sun exposure.

This is reinforced by Apollo's statement that he'd been helping them, assuming giving them more sunlight than was normal without their knowing, and how WW didn't come close to overwhelming just one of them in their second confrontation even before the sunblast. There is nothing to suggest they were beyond normal long term yellow sun Kryptonian levels before the blast.

It's not even confirmed that Brutaal's vision is anything more than aimed heat vision, and no good feats to think that it's in any way more powerful than normal heat vision.

Nobody actually knows how to classify Ultraman's powers because they wax and wane with the amount of K he's ingested recently. For all we know he's superior to everyone on that list at his best, but we never get a good look at his "average" strength. "Basically" from a casual interview of Geoff John's doesn't mean much. He's an alternate universe version of Superman, of course he's "basically" the same... Just like how Power Ring is "basically" Hal Jordan...

There is also nothing to suggest Power Girl is superior in any way to Supergirl.

@boringperson:

Superman and Wonder Woman's first fight with Zod and Faora was not indicative of Zod and Faora's normal strength. They were both fresh out of the Phantom Zone and had very little total sun exposure.

By the same standard, Wonder Woman thus fought inexperienced Kryptonians. Nothing suggests they can bench The Earth for 5 days like Kal.

This is reinforced by Apollo's statement that he'd been helping them, assuming giving them more sunlight than was normal without their knowing, and how WW didn't come close to overwhelming just one of them in their second confrontation even before the sunblast. There is nothing to suggest they were beyond normal long term yellow sun Kryptonian levels before the blast.

Actually, what suggested they were amped is Wonder Woman's plan. Why would she absorb all those hits if she can just solo them like the first time? Instead, she carried out a plan which required such. Saying ''it's taking too long'' implied he was amping them.

t's not even confirmed that Brutaal's vision is anything more than aimed heat vision, and no good feats to think that it's in any way more powerful than normal heat vision.

Why isn't Omega Force better? Not only is it more accurate, but the source is more powerful. Hell, even Darkseid (who supposedly has strength on par with New-52 Superman) destroyed a planet with his vision.

Nobody actually knows how to classify Ultraman's powers because they wax and wane with the amount of K he's ingested recently. For all we know he's superior to everyone on that list at his best, but we never get a good look at his "average" strength. "Basically" from a casual interview of Geoff John's doesn't mean much. He's an alternate universe version of Superman, of course he's "basically" the same... Just like how Power Ring is "basically" Hal Jordan...

Johns created the New-52 version and intended for him to be just as powerful. The Pre-52 version was a jobber, the New-52 version just....isn't. He took Kryptonite, flew up to space yet a few sceonds of sunlight stung him, in the last issue of FE 3 seconds of sunlight turned him into the weakest being on the planet. He moved The Moon with one arm and then blocked The Sun with it. If Ultraman becomes a jobber, then so be it, but thus far he's been exceptionally powerful.

Sinestro even said Power Ring was not anywhere near Jordan's level.

Wonder Woman

@frozen: To what degree they were being amped prior to the sunblast is unclear, nothing to suggest they were amped beyond normal long term sun exposure Kryptonians. Not like Superman and Wonder Woman were being blown away. It's not logical to assume their first engagement showed their normal strength any more than their second. Superman and Wonder Woman knew that they would be stronger in their next engagement because they'd simply absorb more sunlight as compared to their relative weakness/clumsiness from just leaving the Phantom Zone.

Again, no confirmation of what degree of power over the OF Brutaal has. Honestly, there isn't even confirmation of it even being OF based. Even if it is, your argument is flawed. Just because the power source is superior doesn't mean the end result is superior. It's aimable, but it has no power feats to suggest it's more powerful than any other Kryptonian's normal heat vision.

Geoff Johns's intentions notwithstanding, Ultraman has rather inconsistent feats. From utterly overwhelming Black Adam to only being able to stalemate him. Worse, Black Adam is rather unused so far in the New 52 so he's not even particularly useful as a benchmark. Power Ring being weaker but still a basic analogue of Green Lantern was my point. If Power Ring was definitively weaker than Green Lantern, then why couldn't Ultraman be similarly weaker or stronger than Superman? Simply saying they equal each other simply doesn't follow.

@boringperson:

To what degree they were being amped prior to the sunblast is unclear, nothing to suggest they were amped beyond normal long term sun exposure Kryptonians. Not like Superman and Wonder Woman were being blown away. It's not logical to assume their first engagement showed their normal strength any more than their second. Superman and Wonder Woman knew that they would be stronger in their next engagement because they'd simply absorb more sunlight as compared to their relative weakness/clumsiness from just leaving the Phantom Zone.

Why not? Zod began injured, he then got amped and matched Kal. Without an amp, there's no indiciation he can match Kal-El. There's no indiciation a simple time pass would make Zod and Foara become that much stronger, Wonder Woman attacked them, dealt with them but by the second match not only do we have an on-panel confirmation of them being amped but it correlates to the fight because it makes sense for Wonder Woman needing a special suit to fight them, she'd only need that against amped Kryptonians.

Again, no confirmation of what degree of power over the OF Brutaal has. Honestly, there isn't even confirmation of it even being OF based. Even if it is, your argument is flawed. Just because the power source is superior doesn't mean the end result is superior. It's aimable, but it has no power feats to suggest it's more powerful than any other Kryptonian's normal heat vision.

The heat vision = omega beam argument is often spawned from bad writing, the omega force is clearly an upgrade, Darkseid made him MORE powerful. Darkseid destryoed a planet with them, hell even if Brutaal is weaker than that, it's higher than base heat vision to say the least.

Geoff Johns's intentions notwithstanding, Ultraman has rather inconsistent feats. From utterly overwhelming Black Adam to only being able to stalemate him. Worse, Black Adam is rather unused so far in the New 52 so he's not even particularly useful as a benchmark. Power Ring being weaker but still a basic analogue of Green Lantern was my point. If Power Ring was definitively weaker than Green Lantern, then why couldn't Ultraman be similarly weaker or stronger than Superman? Simply saying they equal each other simply doesn't follow

Not really. He stomped Adam due to a massive Kryptonite amp, and Adam matching Ultraman (who is = New 52 Superman and moved The Moon) is a TESTAMENT to Adam's ability, it's not a low feat in the slightest, it's a good feat for Adam.

It does, Johns confirmed such and Ultraman was very much written to be that powerful, Power Ring from the get go was a coward, and down right useless. Sinestro confirms that when he kills him. Also, there will be a new Power Ring and IIRC Shazam may getting the Power Ring in JL 33.

@frozen:

I'm not disputing that they were amped, but to what degree they had been asked. The text from Apollo is more consistent with helping them recover than forcibly making them more powerful than they would normally be.

You give no reason or feat showing how Brutaal's "Omega Vision" is more powerful than Superman's. It's a flawed argument. Kind of like saying bullets are superior in penetration power to arrows, which is only true in specific context. As of now Brutaal's vision is not visibly more powerful than average Kryptonian heat vision.

You contradict yourself in the same sentence. Ultraman was "amped" for his best feat and one might say Kryptonite "deprived" for Black Adam's better showing, making Black Adam's, and therefore Ultraman's, showing even harder to quantify.

Power Ring was a coward, but his ring doesn't work the same way as a normal GL's it's the Ring of Volthoom. I even erroneously said he was weaker than Hal knowing you'd jump on it. Getting beaten by Parallax Host Sinestro doesn't really count as a low showing, any three GL's would have a hard/impossible time vs Sinestro as he was. Sinestro's statement is unclear as to if he's speaking of power, mental strength, or if he equates the two as the same. Sinestro has an incredibly high opinion of Hal's battle prowess to begin with, and couldn't possibly have known the full extent of Power Ring's strength from their short engagement.

On a lighter note, apparently the Ring of Volthoom is going to Jessica Cruz who's going to be mentored in its use by Simon Baz. So excited :)

Shazam in the JL is comedy gold!

@boringperson:

I'm not disputing that they were amped, but to what degree they had been asked. The text from Apollo is more consistent with helping them recover than forcibly making them more powerful than they would normally be.

But, we're shown the degree. Enough to the point where Wonder Woman uses the punch absorbing suit, rather than solo them like she did origiginally. The degree is that they are more powerful, it's a dangerous argument to make that they were minorly amped if they are amped.

You give no reason or feat showing how Brutaal's "Omega Vision" is more powerful than Superman's. It's a flawed argument. Kind of like saying bullets are superior in penetration power to arrows, which is only true in specific context. As of now Brutaal's vision is not visibly more powerful than average Kryptonian heat vision.

Omega Beams > Heat Vision, it's quite logical in the sense that Brutaal already had normal heat vision before he turned Brutaal, Darkseid clearly made him more powerful if anything, otherwise why change it? The Omega Vision is shown to be more accurate and can change directions, in regards to it's power, well I will acknowledge we do not know how powerful it is, but most likely that was the Omega Beam sent through the portal which hit Superman (it was blue due to going through portal) and burned out his nanites.

You contradict yourself in the same sentence. Ultraman was "amped" for his best feat and one might say Kryptonite "deprived" for Black Adam's better showing, making Black Adam's, and therefore Ultraman's, showing even harder to quantify.

For moving The Moon? He was until sunlight hit him, which weakened him. A few seconds of sunlight deprived him of all power and made him into a useless being in the last issue. A weakened Ultraman moved The Moon. He was stronger against Black Adam the second time than he was when he moved The Moon, even Sinestro blasted him point blank and could not KO Ultraman.

Power Ring was a coward, but his ring doesn't work the same way as a normal GL's it's the Ring of Volthoom. I even erroneously said he was weaker than Hal knowing you'd jump on it. Getting beaten by Parallax Host Sinestro doesn't really count as a low showing, any three GL's would have a hard/impossible time vs Sinestro as he was. Sinestro's statement is unclear as to if he's speaking of power, mental strength, or if he equates the two as the same. Sinestro has an incredibly high opinion of Hal's battle prowess to begin with, and couldn't possibly have known the full extent of Power Ring's strength from their short engagement.

I would not consider Sinestro to be Parallax, technically he was, but with the way he was written? No. He was written to be......normal Sinestro, he couldn't one-shot Alexander Luthor (needed to carry out Lex's plan) and could not solo the Forever Evil cast. Nothing he did was Parallax level, he was just written as the normal version. He's more like Sodam Yat ION, which was a big nerf to the name of ION. Power Ring from the get go was asserted as useless and weak.

On a lighter note, apparently the Ring of Volthoom is going to Jessica Cruz who's going to be mentored in its use by Simon Baz. So excited :)

Shazam in the JL is comedy gold!

LOL.

WW

Wonder Woman.

Bump

Wonder Woman

I hope Power Girl gets better treatment in Rebirth...

Bump. Just because I'm curious if anything in the past 10 months effects the outcome.

Anyone? :)

Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman should be able to beat Powergirl

Wonder Woman > Superman = Power Girl

wonder woman