Post Crisis Superman vs Wraith

vs,

RULES

• Out Character
• Morals:OFF
• Bloodlusted
• Fight to the death
• Started 1000 km far away from each other
• Wraith killed Lois in Smallville,Clark heard that from Daily Planet and fight starts

Starts with Song

Superman

I have to go with Wraith for this one. He was started to be stronger than New52 Superman & having equal Speed to him, so i think he has equal strength to PostCrisis. Right? Also : Wraith has sound manipulation & energy blasts. He could possibly beat Superman.

5/10 for Wraith. 5/10 for Superman. Could go either way i think.

Man, this song is lame...

New-52 Superman is stronger than Post Crisis Superman

Bump.

I think Wraith is stronger and more durable, but Clark is faster and strikes harder. However, New 52 Superman was able to overpower Wraith by relying on his skill, intellect and tactical fighting, and Post-Crisis Superman is smarter, more tactical, more skilled, more durable and more capable than New 52 Supermam. He is also faster and strikes harder.

I don't think there is any reason to assume that Pre-Flashpoint Clark won't be able to take down Wraith the same way. And I know New 52 Superman wasn't able to beat Wraith until both of them were weakened but Post-Crisis Superman still has better stats than New 52 Superman. And he tanked blows from people stronger than Wraith. I could be wrong about this but I think Clark said that Wraith's physiology is similar to his own, meaning, Clark might be able to take him down with pressure points. Or he can use Heat Vision-Freeze Breach combo to distract him.

Either way, Wraith only has strength and durability and Clark is more than capable of handling it. I know Wraith can unleash Kryptonite-like substance, but it was only able to stop New 52 Superman's attack. It's not like he was incapacitated. In fact, he was beating up Wraith afterwards, relying on pure fighting skill. In the end, Superman wins IMO.

Bloodlusted Superman after Lois' death isn't the best strategical thinker, his fight with Wonder Woman shows that.

If Wraith from the beginning goes all out, I'll give him a majority 6/10.

Superman.

Swamp Thing already noted that PC Supes harnessess far more solar energy than Nuperman to the point that he became dangerous for planet's ecosystem(though Swamp Thing fixed that without making Supes lose power), and that was before Nuperman and PC Supes combined.

<<....The previous Superman did not draw the same amount of solar energy. Upon his death it seems you now draw more.>>

Superman.

@lord_spectrum said:

If anything, by feats Rebirth blue-boots Superman was weakier than Post-Crisis Superman, more sunlight or not. Also, so far no indication that New-52 Supes and Superdad' merger made Reborn Superman stronger (only "restoring optimism", whatever that means).

Plus to all that, OP states that this Post-Crisis Superman in his classical incarnation (underpants above pants), not the current one.

@sanohibiki:

If anything, by feats Rebirth blue-boots Superman was weakier than Post-Crisis Superman,

He was around for short amount of time obviously he doesn't have feats for now, same with Rebirth Wally, though both of them are the same Pre-52 characters.

Pre-52 had sh*t load of apperances in comics, thousands upon thousands appearances and even then his amount of high-showings/feats are not that much compared to the amount of comics he appeared.

more sunlight or not.

Wraith also absorbs more sunlight than Nuperman, that's why he is more powerful than Nuperman, same mechanism with PC Superman.

And given the implication Swamp Thing hinted that PC Supes absorbs so much sunlight that he became a threat to planet Earth itself, Wraith and Nuperman's sunlight absorbion wouldn't have caused that much of side effects, just shows the difference between the 2.

Also, so far no indication that New-52 Supes and Superdad' merger made Reborn Superman stronger (only "restoring optimism", whatever that means).

Actually there is an indication or 2 of it.

<<Someone had split my essence, created two Supermen out of one, to keep meweak.>>

<<..It was a force powerful enough to tamper with my powers....>>

@lvenger: Do you think Superman can take him?

Supes

Superman with difficulty.

Superman Wins. I dont see how Wraith is going to counter phasing. In addition, Pre 52 hits harder, is faster smarter And more strategically

Wraith should be physically on par with Superman at least and more versatile but Clark would be faster, more durable and more skilled and intelligent than the Superman Wraith fought. Wraith was overwhelmed by New 52 Superman's fighting skills and Pre Flashpoint Supes is a much better fighter who uses pressure points against physically comparable opponents. Wraith should be put on the backfoot against Superman's fighting skills without being depowered at the Earth's core. So Superman would win.

@morpheus_: I do. Pre 52 Superman is above N52 Supes in several stats, plus he is more skilled and tactical which Wraith didn't do well against. He's in with a shot.

Superman wins.

@lord_spectrum:

He was around for short amount of time obviously he doesn't have feats for now, same with Rebirth Wally, though both of them are the same Pre-52 characters.

Pre-52 had sh*t load of apperances in comics, thousands upon thousands appearances and even then his amount of high-showings/feats are not that much compared to the amount of comics he appeared.

True enough, but… DC doubled the speed of new issues’ releases, so basically two years passed. Not many feats to rival with top showing of either Pre-Flashpoint or New-52 Supermen. Instead there was that instance when Rebirth Superman had to go into Earth’ core and apparently it could have killed him. Both mentioned Supermen would have done that easily.

As far as I concerned, Superdad was quite weak for some time.

Wraith also absorbs more sunlight than Nuperman

True, but thing is, Wraith is way bigger and massive than Superman; of course, he should absorb more energy.

And given the implication Swamp Thing hinted that PC Supes absorbs so much sunlight that he became a threat to planet Earth itself, Wraith and Nuperman's sunlight absorbion wouldn't have caused that much of side effects, just shows the difference between the 2.

I really don’t think it works like that (for example, Kingdom Come Superman, who outclasses Post-Crisis version, would have been walking disaster of planetary level, but nothing like that happens). Swamp Thing said that now Rebirth Superman draws more sunlight, not absorbs it. Likely some quantum time-space error because of existence two Superman which were pretty much one and the same. So, he draws it without absorbing, in turn, energy’ overabundance negatively affects environment. Looks logical to me.

Actually there is an indication or 2 of it.

<<Someone had split my essence, created two Supermen out of one, to keep meweak.>>

<<..It was a force powerful enough to tamper with my powers....>>

Thanks for second scan, I didn’t see it before. Still, it’s debatable (there is a difference between stating and actually doing something) and looks a bit like lipservice; as I mentioned, Rebirth Superman was weakened for some time, perhaps he just returned to his prime; regarding New-52 Superman, it might explain his variety of relatively unknown onetime abilities and overall power instability.

P.S. I would be glad if Superman will suddenly double his power level, battle forums will explode))), but I don’t think that will happen.

Post Crisis Superman wins.

@sanohibiki:

True enough, but… DC doubled the speed of new issues’ releases, so basically two years passed. Not many feats to rival with top showing of either Pre-Flashpoint or New-52 Supermen. Instead there was that instance when Rebirth Superman had to go into Earth’ core and apparently it could have killed him. Both mentioned Supermen would have done that easily.

True, but that doesn't change that much, that is still not enough time to gain decent feats, i mean Post-Crisis Superman has THOUSANDS appearances and now look at his decent feats, you will see that the numbers of decent feats are miniscule compared to his overall appearances.

As far as I concerned, Superdad was quite weak for some time.

True dat.

True, but thing is, Wraith is way bigger and massive than Superman; of course, he should absorb more energy.

Writers mostly ignore physics in comics. Though if i recall correctly it was explained that he does absorb more due to his experience in manipulation of EM energy, which Superman doesn't have, or that he is much older than Superman, so his body evolved into more powerful state, thus enhancing his absorbing capabilities.

I really don’t think it works like that (for example, Kingdom Come Superman, who outclasses Post-Crisis version, would have been walking disaster of planetary level, but nothing like that happens).

Because of 2 factors, PC Supes was absorbing more sunlight as well as vibrations of him affecting the world around him, Swamp Thing fixed those vibrationals problems.

Swamp Thing said that now Rebirth Superman draws more sunlight, not absorbs it.

Different words that explain the same thing, if he draws more sunlight, then it means he now absorbs more as well.

Likely some quantum time-space error because of existence two Superman which were pretty much one and the same.

Not really, just vibrations as per according to Swamp Thing.

So, he draws it without absorbing, in turn, energy’ overabundance negatively affects environment. Looks logical to me.

He draws more energy and absorbs it, otherwise if he didn't you would see air burning around him, and other side-effects, the reason it was affecting flowers(note: you would see that those flowers lacked "life" rather than they were burnt as per my explanation), was because of vibrations, DC loves those frequence/wavelength/vibration thing. XD

It is in a sense logical, but given overall information, other variation of that instance makes more sense.

Thanks for second scan, I didn’t see it before.

You are welcome. ^_^

Still, it’s debatable (there is a difference between stating and actually doing something) and looks a bit like lipservice;

Well, he said that "Dr. Manhattan" tampered his powers, and we know the reason, due to him being split in 2 parts.

as I mentioned, Rebirth Superman was weakened for some time,

So was Supergirl, due to same problems, also after Nuperman's death, that was fixed, he was returned to full power, if i recall correctly there was even a writer statement confirming that.

perhaps he just returned to his prime;

Maybe, i addresed a bit of it above.

regarding New-52 Superman, it might explain his variety of relatively unknown onetime abilities and overall power instability.

Well, Nuperman had solar flare, which is not a new ability, if you read Earth 2 comics, which was before the Ulysesus arc with Solar Flare, you would see that Earth 2 Superman also had solar flare, most of Nuperman's power problems came from that ability.

Other than that i don't rememmber Nuperman having other problems

P.S. I would be glad if Superman will suddenly double his power level, battle forums will explode))), but I don’t think that will happen.

Well, it is clearly hinted that Superdad and Nuperman only had certain amount of Post-Crisis Superman's power, and given overall evidences i think Superdad was the more powerful, because he draws more solar power, which is understandable as we know that older those kryptonians get. the stronger/tougher they become, due to their bodies being in constant evolutional state.

Really interesting thread, I might just go with Superman here.

Superman should win, his durability seemed to be on par, and in terms of speed and striking he has a distinct advantage.

Wraith still has his versatility unless Superman brings him to the Earth's core again. Although would Wraith mimicking Kryptonite radiation work? It doesn't typically work against Kryptonians from different universes, but given the current state of affairs I'm not sure Post Crisis Clark qualifies.

@lord_spectrum:

Other than that i don't rememmber Nuperman having other problems

Not problems per se; just some subtle differences between him and Pre-Crisis kryptonians.

New-52 Superman' abilities had pronounced "controlling electromagnetic energy" side -

1) he not just saw the entire electromagnetic spectrum, but could release such energy from eyes;

2) Wraith all but promised that with time he'll have similar energy projection and transference abilities along with becoming stronger (but we know from Unchained that kryptonite weakness will remain, while Kingdom Come features k-resistant older Superman with increased traditional powers);

3) strong magnetic fields disrupted most of New-52 Superman abilities;

(P.S. Unless SM Unchained is canon within itself)

4) was able to increase his body temperature at will (perhaps that was first step to solar flare),

5) had sonar hearing (kinda like Daredevil);

6) apparently his brain was bursting with psionic energy.

@sanohibiki:

Not problems per se; just some subtle differences between him and Pre-Crisis kryptonians.

You mean Post-Crisis Kryptonians. :D

New-52 Superman' abilities had pronounced "controlling electromagnetic energy" side -

1) he not just saw the entire electromagnetic spectrum, but could release such energy from eyes;

It is hypothetical honestly, the only types of EM energy he released where X-Rays and Solar Light, he didn't release gamma, infra-red, and etc...

2) Wraith all but promised that with time he'll have similar energy projection and transference abilities along with becoming stronger (but we know from Unchained that kryptonite weakness will remain, while Kingdom Come features k-resistant older Superman with increased traditional powers);

Well, KC Superman is an alternate universe Superman, as for Kryptonite weakness, it was just a theory if it would stay, after all Kryptonite radiations is still EM energy just different wavelength/frequence, i guess you can conclude the rest yourself.

3) strong magnetic fields disrupted most of New-52 Superman abilities;

(P.S. Unless SM Unchained is canon within itself)

To quote @mightykalel

Core affected both of them, but in different ways. Nuperman lost his powers except speed and strength near outer core but didn't struggle. Rebirth Superman didn't lose his powers but struggled.

4) was able to increase his body temperature at will (perhaps that was first step to solar flare),

I agree, that was more connected to solar flare.

5) had sonar hearing (kinda like Daredevil);

Well, it is a rather a SKILL of super hearing, rather than superpower IMO.

6) apparently his brain was bursting with psionic energy.

Same with Pre-52 Supes, why do you think things don't crush on their own weight when they lift things, it's because of Tactile Telekinesis, which is psionic, this was more explored with Pre 52/New 52 Superboy.

It is hypothetical honestly, the only types of EM energy he released where X-Rays and Solar Light, he didn't release gamma, infra-red, and etc...

Superman has released Gamma rays from his eyes.

was able to increase his body temperature at will (perhaps that was first step to solar flare),

Superman was able to increase his body temperature with ease years ago at the beginning of the New 52.

@yarva:

Superman has released Gamma rays from his eyes.

Scans?

@yarva:

Ahhh...i see, thanks. ^_^

Though Post-Crisis can also check through the entirety of EM Spectrum, which included gamma, that is not anything new to his powerset, just different way of using his powers.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/3725205-4748509174-senso.jpg

@highaccuser: Even before Superman Reborn, Pre Flashpoint Clark was affected by a piece of Kryptonite from the Post Flashpoint universe. So I admit he should be affected by Wraith mimicking Kryptonite radiation.

bump

Clark.

Superman

Combat speed- Superman.

Physical Strength - Wraith.

Durability- Superman.

Versatility- Wraith but marginally.

Striking Power- Probably Superman as well.

Fighting skill- Superman.

Superman should win although Wraith mimicking kryptonite radiation could be a problem but I see post-crisis Superman working his way through it.

Wraith, fast enough to hang around, arguably more durable, much stronger, and his ability to create kryptonite-like radiation is always an ace in the hole against kryptonians.

After reading the thread I realize most people are backing Superman on the basis of him being more skilled than N52 Superman, and since N52 Superman defeated Wraith on basis of his skill, then PF Superman should do it even easier, correct? But I disagree, obviously PF-Superman is more skilled and superior in most stats, but he lacks cruzial information on Wraiths physiology so I doubt he would try and drag him into the Earth Core, a tactic N52 Superman only tryied due to his previous encounters, on a random encounter I don't think Superman would try and to that to Wraith, and I honestly doubt he could beat him on a 1v1 fight due to the advantages I mentioned before, so if you ask me I would say Wraith wins a decent mayority.

Wraith should win imo, for the reasons posted above. Superman won on a basis of being skilled and knowing his power background, and in a straight up random fight I don't believe pre flashpoint clark would know to do that. So Wraith wins due to being stronger and having access to kryptonite-like attacks.

Superman.