Post Apocalypse Tournament: desmond006 VS jobiwankenobi

@nickzambuto: Is magic allowed and is there a limit to the amount of gear that a team member can carry?

Punisher: M16A3 fitted with an M203, Derringer D32, Gerber Mk2, kevlar, and grenades.

The Question: Handgun, Ballistic Knife, Electrified Brass Knuckles (Batman uses them sometimes), Bullet Proof Vest, and Poison Gas Spray.

Jago: Kevlar, Iron Face Mask, and Laser Sword.

Canderous: Mandalorian Battle Armor, Frag Grenades, Poison Grenades, Ordo's Repeating Blaster Rifle, Vibrosword, Upgraded Prototype Vibroblade, and Healing Implants.

I'll get back to Link.

All right, time for Link. I hope I don't accidentally cheat here, so just let me know if I do.

Link: Master Sword, Mirror Shield, Bow with fire, bomb, and ice arrows (overkill?), chain mail, Din's Fire (If allowed, might be pushing it), bombs, Deku Nuts, Hawkeye, and double clawshots.

Thane with standard gear, shredder ammo, mantis sniper, and shuriken smg.

Conan with broad sword, bow & arrow, spear, helmet and armor, shield.

Black widow = 2 pistols, widows bite, smoke + frag grenades, sniper rifle. Standard suit.

X-23 = pistol, frag grenade,

Blade = 2 Adamantium acid-etched swords, Kevlar vest, double barrel shotgun, and a smg.

Thane also gets First Aid Interface level 10.

@nickzambuto: So, am I working with desmond or against him? Becuase if the Freaks wanted us to fight each other, and we don't want to fight each other, wouldn't we work together to exact revenge? If not that's cool, but I was just wondering because that's what the setup seems to imply.

Moving to the lobby: I'm assuming we won't run into any freaks since there are C4 trips everywhere, but if we do, anyone on my team can handle them one-on-one. Anyone but the Question could easily handle more. The Question and the Punisher would both easily navigate my team through the trip wires.

The Lobby: Link could use his Mirror Shield to absorb Mr. Freeze's blasts and shoot them back at him.

Skip to 1 minute to see it. Jago is about on par of a sword fighter with Deathstroke and he has magic on his side.

Jago is obviously the one who is owning. The Question could shoot at Sabretooth and hope to kill him. If he gets close enough to hit him; he can spray him with the poison. He would get at least a one second freeze from Sabretooth. Enough time to give him a good punch with his powered brass knuckles. This should knock him back and give the Question the advantage to win the fight. Even if he can't he'll get support from another team member whom finishes their fight first, probably Link who could easily take Sabretooth. Canderous can bring Bane down with his repeating blaster. It can fire about 20-40 powerful blasts in 4 seconds (sorry I can't find any scans or anything for it). If that doesn't work, he could easily take him down with his swords, which are a step down from a lightsaber. Punisher can shoot and grenade Killer Croc. He can avoid him for long enough.

Disarming and avoiding the bombs wont be too hard with X-23, Thane, and Black Widow on my team. Also my team is faster so they should get to the bottom floor quicker.

Dealing with the team guarding the boss will be pretty simple. My team fills bane with bullets as soon as they see him. Thane and Black widow stay back and snipe, they will take Mr. Freeze out quickly with a few bullets to the head. Now its five on three. Then Thane can divert his attention to Killer croc and hit him with some sniper blast. Black widow can start taking shots at Deathstroke. X-23 and can keep deathstroke busy in combination with black widow. Blade can eliminate Killer croc with Thanes help. Conan will hold Sabretooth off. When Thane and Blade eliminate Killer croc they can help Conan get rid of sabretooth.

The Boss: Link can clawshot onto the top of one of the tanks and fire a bomb arrow down into the cockpit and then jump out of the way. Canderous can fire at the other tank, his laser should tear through it in a minute. Link can use an ice arrow to freeze the barrel shut once he's done with the other one.

Everyone else can run distraction. Link can take at least one cannon shot. Canderous can take several. Also, everyone on my team should be fast enough to avoid the shots except the Question. He can hang back and provide cover fire from behind a barricade of some sort. Jago, and Punisher can run distraction.

Canderous should be able to bring down one Mr. X in a few seconds. Link and Jago can both handle one apiece as well. The Question and Punisher can team up to defeat the other one.

I don't know the actual strength of the boss, but I'll assume my team can all five handle him pretty easily.

@desmond006: Can I get some info from you on Thane? I can't seem to find anything about him.

I suppose I'll let Jobiwankenobi's team fight the bosses so they can expend a little bit of energy.

@jobiwankenobi: Thane an assassin in the mass effect universe. Hes quick with good hand to hand abilities. he has two biotic abilities, warp and push. ward is effective against armor and push just pushes. Shredder amo is especially effective against organic flesh.

@desmond006: Thank you kindly. However, we are meeting in the lobby. So whoever wins our fight will have to face the boss, sorry.

During the first video he was dying and not at 100 %. You can just watch the first half of the second video. His shields can take a few bullets before hurting him. Warp and push have longer range thane shown in the first video.

My opponent: Jago should be able to take Black Widow. His body armor should be sufficient to protect him from any gun shots as he's approaching. He's also pretty quick and can dodge a few. He can also use his endokuken (essentially a magic fireball) to reduce her amount of shooting and movement.

Canderous will take X-23. His swords should be able to block adamantium, they are capable of blocking lightsabers. He can get her with a poison grenade just to slow her down (I don't know if her healing factor affects poisons). If it comes down to a gunfight, Canderous will win. He has superior firepower and skill. X-23 will have no choice but to approach him, in which time he can do her a little damage. Canderous should be able to hold his own in a sword fight with her (he can kill Jedi) until he can get some support.

Sorry about the terrible quality. Skip to 4:15 and just watch the fight. It's only evidence that a vibroblade can stop a lightsaber. This is NOT Canderous fighting.

I don't know much about Thane, but I think Punisher can hold his own against him if he can't flat out beat him.

Conan is just a big guy with a big sword in a suit of armor right? Sounds familiar:

If so Link can take him easily.

The Question will have to hold off Blade until he can get support. Link will finish Conan off quickly enough to help. Together it should take about 5 minutes to beat him. Then they can both move to help Punisher if he can't pull it off. Thane shouldn't last to much longer. By this point Jago and Canderous should both be done. Whoever gets done first of the three fights can move on to help another.

Well right of the bat I'd like to point out that I believe my team overall is faster, stronger, superior fire power. Also I have three healers.

Link and conan probably would engage in battle. However Link's opponents have very limited attacks. they each only have like three moves that they use and have an sometimes obvious weak spots. Conan is one of the best swordsman in comics. Conan's skill with swords are far beyond link's. I doubt Link could actually touch conan in close combat. Link should die fairly quick due to lack of sword skill (in my opinion).

Thane has multiple ways of disposing punisher. The quickest way would probably be a bullet to the head. Thane has superior fire power so he has the edge in ranged combat. Thane shields and healing would be too much for Punisher. If thane really neads too can start pushing people out of windows or down hallways to thin out your teams numbers. The push wont hurt any more than the average force push but it will remove some of your team for long enough for my guys to gang up on a few of your players.

I'm pretty sure anyone on my team can kill or injure Link, hes not really fast or strong.

I'm not sure what the Question can do to Blade. He doesnt have much experience with guns so he wont have the best aim. Blades an excellent swordsman so The Questions martial arts wont help him much from being cut in have. From what I know Close combat and ranged combat go to Blade.

Canderous should be less dangerous that link with a sword so I'm not concerned about him that much. His repeating blaster reduces him to a tank, meaning he just stands and shoot. pretty easy target for one of my snipers. X-23 is immune to most diseases and chemicals. I have know idea if Jago's armor can take bullets and widow bites so thats why I ave Black Widow a few frags grenades.

Videos contain spoilers for Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, and Ocarina of Time.

Skip to 2 minutes end at 11:30.

Skip to 2 minutes.

Watch for a minute or 2.

Yeah, I think Link has the speed, skill, durability, and strength to smear Conan. Not to mention that he also has bombs up his sleeve. Link could shoot him with an ice arrow right off the bat and freeze him in his armor. That should hold him until Link closes the gap between them giving Link an immense advantage. Even if Conan gets Link into trouble. He can always use Din's Fire. Flames will erupt from Link's body forcing Conan to back off. It shouldn't be enough to kill him, but it'll definitely hurt a lot. By the way, Link can survive being burned, frozen, electrocuted, and stabbed multiple times without using any magic. Also, if Conan is in a suit of armor: his mobility and speed are going to be way down, won't they?

I feel like you are giving Punisher too little credit. He's gone up against superhumans like Deadpool, and he's tagged speedsters like Spider-Man. He also has grenades to help him out. I still don't know much about Thane, but from what I've seen, Punisher should be able to hold him off for at least 2 minutes.

Thane's push would not work on Link. He could just use his Clawshots to pull himself right back in. Jago is highly skilled and could catch the ledge with his quick reactions and pull himself back in. Even if it did work, he wouldn't be gone long. Canderous has killed several Jedi, he's well associated with force pushes, he'll know how to react if it happens. The Question and Punisher are fair game. However, wouldn't using push leave Thane vulnerable? I personally don't know.

Renee Montoya is very skilled with a gun. She should be able to keep Blade at bay for a minute and a half. If she doesn't get help, yeah she's dead.

Canderous is a highly skilled Mandalorian warrior. He kills Jedi. He's not going to just stand still. He is less skilled than Link, which isn't saying much against him, but his swords can cut through just about anything. His armor can tank anything your team can throw at him for a very long time with a few exceptions. X-23's blades could cut through it fairly quickly, however, Canderous's swords are capable of blocking them, and it can take about a few frag grenades. Once you get through his armor, he can take a couple bullets, stabs, and at least one explosion (he once purposefully blew himself up with a frag grenade far more advanced than anyone on your team, minus Thane, could have). On top of that, he has a healing factor a step down from Wolverine's.

With Canderous shooting at her I see X-23 has four options: try to avoid him until she can get help (This'll last her about 2 minutes.), engage in a gunfight (She will lose in about 3 minutes), rush him, assuming she survives crossing the distance to him and isn't hurt too much, she should be able to stay evenly matched, assuming she is on par with a Jedi, for a very long time, or she can stand and die.

Jago's armor can take a few bullets, he can take a few before dying, he can avoid plenty, and he can prevent her from shooting more by firing endokukens at her. Most of her Widow's Bite's weapons will not affect him. Jago is at the pinnacle of Tibetan martial arts. He is also the pinnacle of a male human being. I would assume this is more powerful than a female counterpart ,such as Black Widow, but people might find that offensive, and it seems unfair. However, Jago is filled with the Tiger Spirit, which allows him to go beyond the capabilities of a human. He also has magic and his sword. Also, he can avoid grenades more easily than bullets. He could even cause them to blow up immediately after she threw them by shooting them with endokuken.

The last video was the most impressive one and even that wasnt really good. In the first clip the boss rarely attacked and mostly just stood there and took hits. The second boss only attacked four or five times. Then you showed link fighting some big slow guys and a bunch of drones that die in one hit. After that another big slow guy. The guy in the forth video with the big target on his chest realy likes to take sword slashes.

The purpose was to show his strength, speed, and skill. Each of those guys needed to be slowed down so that the average player could mentally and/or physically react. Speed those enemies up to a believable speed, and that's very impressive. I may be mistaken, but isn't Conan, especially in a suit of armor, very similar to most of the guys in the clips? I may be wrong. We are talking Conan the Barbarian right?

I sincerely hope we're not talking about this Conan.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/conan-the-barbarian-respect-thread/682827/ That should work.

Here you can see Conan fighting frost giants, killing someone after being stabbed, swimming across a sea while carrying someone, fighting an ape, killing someone while shot in the leg with an arrow and sleep depraved and starved, falling from multiple stories and surviving, Fighting tentacle monsters, throwing stones that weighing hundreds of pounds, taking 2 arrows to the chest, snapping a bulls neck.

@desmond006: Thank you much.

I would like to point out that Link as well has bested many the giant monster. He can take many stabbings and continue fighting, in fact he really only slows down and weakens once he is near death. He can swim for a long time but not that long and not while carrying anyone. He fights many monsters on par or above an ape. He can take many arrows, and tends to quickly remove them and add them to his quiver. Link can run through an entire night and day without tiring. Link can fall very far distances and survive; he is very adept at rolling after a fall to avoid any injury whatsoever. He's slain many tentacle monsters. If I was aloud my golden gauntlets, Link could lift hundreds of pounds as well, but unfortunately I'm not aloud items that directly increase his power (That's why I don't have Pegasus Boots either). Again, he can take many arrows. He can't go as far as to snap a bulls neck, but he can stop a charging goat (with no enhancements) and toss it to the side.

If you want proof of any of these, I will be glad to provide it. *I feel like this page has been getting really cluttered, and I'm sure you're sick of watching these lengthy videos. This is causing my piece of crap computer to keep losing response to this page.*

The ape rips men apart. Link fights basic enemies, they usually show repetitive and predictable attack patterns (when they do attack). How many heart pieces do you get? In the game Canderous usually stands still when he shoots his repeating blaster, I would like to see his sword skills if you have any. I understand I'm arguing against the endless stamina of video game characters good thing I put Thane in.

I do have a some question. Who on your team can take multiple 30,000 volt shocks? Link is a giant electricity conductor.

Another factor is that my team has 3 assassins. I dont believe Link is used to fighting stealthy opponents. He likes his targets out in the open. You have to admit Link is fighting a class of enemy hes not used to. I got professional killers, there going for one shot kills.

Blade hunts vampires every night. Not to many people on your team have the strength and speed of a vampire.

85% of the monsters Link faces can tear a person apart. His enemies generally are like that so that whoever's playing the game can win. There were a few enemies that had random attack patterns and their attacks were often really strong. In Skyward Sword, and a little in Twilight Princess, all the enemies were dumbed down to a really slow attack speed because they had motion controllers, and the player needed to be physically capable of responding. I would assume Link should be at full power, so... all of his heart pieces.

Knights of the Old Republic was based off of Dungeons and Dragons. So if aiming and moving were included, the structure of the game would have been destroyed. If you ever did move out of the way of an attack you would see it still affected you. What constituted for "moving" in that game was when either: someone slashed at an enemy and they stepped out of the way or they shot instead and the target would do a little sidestepping thing and all the bullets would miss. I've tried and tried to find scans of Canderous sword fighting, but have been unsuccessful. If I do find any, I will be sure to put them up. I can tell you that I was able to defeat Darth Malak's apprentice using only Canderous with swords and no medpacs or stimulants. The best I could say would would be to use Jango Fett as a reference because he was trained a little as a mandalorian. Whereas Canderous was at one point the leader of the Mandalorians.

Canderous's armor could take 30,00 volts. Link has survived being electrocuted multiple times. The other 3 are a different story.

Link does like big enemies out in the open. That is why he would go immediately for Conan. However, Punisher has his military training and is used to fighting people such as Spider-Man, Deadpool, and Wolverine. Canderous himself is part of a race of trained killers who tend to become mercenaries. He's used to dealing with smugglers, assassins, and other stealthy people by noticing, finding, cornering, and eliminating them. Jago is a stealthy character as well. He lived his entire life being trained by monks in Tibetan martial arts. He is also possessed by a spirit that enhances is abilities and itself enjoys killing. The Question is used to some stealthy characters from her time as a police officer.

The one who comes closest to matching Blade is Jago. Jago did defeat a robot designed to kill multiple people at once. Once, he defeated a more advanced form of this robot when the Tiger Spirit abandoned him.

This is my reasonable best case scenario for all match ups.

Punisher: vs Thane With grenades, a gun, and a knife, he should be able to keep him at bay for a few minutes. vs Conan Loads him with bullets. Can avoid arrows and armor can take several. Grenades can keep him back. vs Black Widow Her stealth give her a slight edge, but Punisher has fought people like this before. Engages is a drawn out gunfight that could really go either way. vs X-23 Keeps her away with gunfire and grenades for as long as he can. If she engages in gunfight she loses. She rushes him and he's dead in a couple of minutes. He can hold her off for a while as he has fought Wolverine. vs Blade Punisher is more than capable of tagging him. He has tagged many speedsters. He'd win a drawn out gunfight but would lose if Blade got in close within a few minutes.

The Question: vs Thane She can hold him off for a minute. Once he gets close, she always had energized brass knuckles and a knife, which would keep her alive for a little while. vs Conan She can keep him back for a few minutes. Once he gets in close, she's dead. vs Black Widow The Question would last a minute or two in a gunfight. vs X-23 Stalemate gunfight. She's dead pretty quickly if X-23 rushes her. vs Blade She can hold him off in a gunfight for a while. If he gets close, she's dead in seconds.

Jago: vs Thane Jago could beat him in a drawn out fight. Hos armor can take a shot or two, and he can survive a few. vs Conan Jago would be entirely to quick for Conan. He'd drag him down after a very long time of slashing away at him and shooting him with endokuken. His armor can take several hits from anything he can throw at him. He can also survive several himself. If they engage in h2h combat, Jago is very powerful and quick in this. Jago has a huge edge in speed. They are about equal in sword skills with a slight edge to Conan. Conan has an edge in physical strength and a small edge in durability. vs Black Widow Stealth won't help her as Jago is on par with her in that department. He is above a human in his capabilities and has magic. He would beat her in a drawn out fight. His armor can take a few shots and he can survive a few. His armor and skill make her Widow's Bite largely ineffective. vs X-23 Jago has the skill, speed, power, stealth, durability, and magic. She has the weaponry and healing factor. It would take several minutes, but he would beat her. vs Blade Blade has a slight edge in speed, power, weaponry, and durability. Jago has the skill, stealth, and magic. I could see this one going either way.

Canderous: vs Thane Canderous has armor that can take his attacks and a healing factor. He can also take several attacks from Thane before going down. Thane's push won't be too effective as Canderous is used to this Jedi trick. I don't know who wins in skill, durability, or strength. (You can ignore this, but if I had remembered to give Canderous shields, sitmulants, and/or medpacs, I don't think Thane would stand a chance.) vs Conan Canderous would just blow the crap out of him. He has far superior weaponry, healing, and way better armor. He and his armor can take very many hits from anything Conan can throw at him. Besides Canderous's swords could cut through Conan's equipment in seconds. vs Black Widow Her stealth won't do her much good. Most, but not all of her Widow's Bite's attacks with be ineffective. Canderous has skill and tech on his side. He and his armor can take several hits she throws. He can also heal quickly enough. She should be dead in a matter of minutes. vs X-23 I don't see her healing factor being to helpful against multiple laser blasts, futuristic explosions, and swords almost as sharp as her blades. Her gun is almost useless, her grenades won't do much. Her claws can cut through his armor quickly enough, but his swords can block them, and he's very skilled with them. He also has a healing factor only slightly below hers. vs Blade Most of Blade's weapons won't do much to his armor. He himself can take a few shots. Adamantium swords are about as effective as X-23's claws. Canderous has a major advantage in tech and he can heal. Blade has superior speed and physical durability. His stealth won't help much. He has a slight edge in skill. I see Canderous winning this one 7/10 times.

Link: vs Thane Push won't do much even out a window, Link can clawshot back in. Link has magic on his side and that's about it. His partners can warn him of a sneak attack and his reflexes are fast enough. His Mirror Shield can reflect lasers. He has bombs, bomb arrows, and Din's Fire to keep him away. I think Thane would win this after a very long battle. vs Conan We both disagree very much on this one. I've already given tons of reasons and don't feel like restating them all (It would be pages long.) It is my own belief that Link could stomp Conan in a minute or 2. vs Black Widow, again his partners can warn him of a sneak attack. Black Widow would be fairly formidable. I see this one swinging both ways. Black Widow getting of several good shots. Link catching her, getting off a good shot with any of his powerful arrows (If this happens, she's done) , or hitting her with Din's Fire. If Link gets in close, she's toast. vs X-23 Link has superior skill but her freaking claws would make this tough on him. If she gets close, he can always hit her with Din's Fire, which would give him a major advantage. I see him winning 8/10 times. vs Blade Again with the Adamantium. Link is still superior in skill and can use Din's Fire or get a good shot with an ice arrow. Blade has the better weapons, strength, and speed. I see Link winning this one 4/10 times.

Also, I very strongly feel if anyone on team gangs up on anyone on your team, they will win. I'm done making any points. I will make rebuttals for your points.

@nickzambuto: I'm ready to start voting. Could you please lay out fair rules for how voting will work? i.e. Every participant is PM'd, voters can't try to sway other voters (because that's the contestants' jobs), and you can't switch your vote once you have voted. Sorry if I'm being annoying, but I've seen this happen on other threads. It all descends into chaos.

So can I still debate? If so I would like to say Link only has average human reflexes, which is a major disadvantage against X-23, black widow.

@jobiwankenobi:

Im not going to do every match up right now because I am watching the Olympics.

I'll start with Punisher. Thane kills him easily with better guns and warp blast. Not going to argue black widow although she would win via speed and stealth. Natasha should have the edge in close combat. He will also loose to X-23 and blade, they can dish out and take more punishment. Conan is handy with a arrows, he could get a few shot but would do best in close combat.

The Question, pretty much dies in combat with everyone. She wont go down without doing some damage though. Jago's strength seems to be his close combat some my assassins should take care of him easily. Their going for one shot kills. Her best chance is with Conan in long range. However I believe his skill with bows are greater.

Now for Link. Having slower reactions than blade, x-23, and Black Widow (and probably my other 2) he is at a huge disadvantage. Blade and x-23 are healing from just about everything he has. His bombs throwing doesnt have that good range and hes not whipping arrows out fast enough to tag people who deal with gun fire. Thanes warp will work well against Link's armor. Blade and X-23 are taking this one with claws and swords and bullets.

I'll do the other two later. Jago with close combat and Canderous with ranged combat are your 2 best in my opinion. Anyone of my healers should be able to take them.

Basically my biggest edge is stealth, physical stats, healing, and gunfire.

@desmond006: Okay, just make sure you PM nickzambuto when you're done.

Here are some last minute scans:

This is Punisher laying the smack down on superhumans.

The Question is skilled with guns. She went there. Here is she is beating on three thugs, at least one is armed.

These are some scans of Jago.

This is Canderous in his prime. This is Canderous in the midst of a battle years later when he needs a special suit to keep him alive. This is the best I could do for him.

This is what Din's Fire looks like.

What happened to my opponent?

@CadenceV2: My opponent has more to debate. Voting can't happen until both he and I approve. I'm ready for voting to start. He said he isn't, and he hasn't posted in 2 days. So we gotta wait until he's ready.

@desmond006 I hope when you said that you were watching the Olympics and were going to past afterwards that you don't mean until after the Olympics are entirely over.

@nickzambuto:

And the score is... 0 - 0 !

WE NEED VOTES!!!!!!!!! PLEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!