#1 Posted by boschePG (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire@beatboks1

figured I would start it

In the negative Zone.

The winner from the last round will have their choice of either yellow or green power rings for every member of their teams.

They will not take any of the boons from the previous round into this one.

There is no prep, completely random encounter.

The winner of this round will get to choose again from the boons at the end of round 1. This time they will get two choices. Just like before the one who finishes their debate first gets to pick first ( just to help move things along)

#2 Edited by boschePG (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire

my team and boon

Aquaman (magic hand and trident)

Etrigan

Loki (YELLOW LANTERN RING)

Plasticman

Kang

my mad esquire. placed the ring on the wrong person. its fixed now

#3 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7219 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: Every member receives a power ring.

The winner from the last round will have their choice of either yellow or green power rings for every member of their teams.

JSYK.

#4 Posted by boschePG (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: I know. I just posted who my team was and who got my boon.

#5 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by beatboks1 (7001 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@mr_ingenuity: I know. I just posted who my team was and who got my boon.

everyone on your team has a power ring. You don't have to list who. Etrigan, Plasticman, Kang, and Aquaman all have one too.

This is getting annoying. I've had about 12 @replies in the last 12 hours with no PM's. I adjusted my settings to stop getting emails only and now I get nothing

@esquire said:

@boschepg: You get rings for Every member of your team, not just for one.

@beatboks1 Seeing as there's no prep for this encounter, do we assume that our characters have knowledge of the Lantern Rings and are proficient with them, or do they just get handed them and are off to the races?

Assume they have some mild familiarity in the use of it ( like they've had it for a few months). But you can still argue why one character would be better using it than another etc. If you feel one of your team would be completely useless with a ring you can give that ring to another but again you'll have to ague why they'd make better use of two rings than one for each

#7 Posted by boschePG (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: @esquire:

1- Is it fair to assume that Negative Zone's physics are in effect?

2- are the rings just the rings or could some plot device their team into getting to Parallax or Ion Entity?

3-I know the boons of last round or not eligible, but is the experience of being on Qward eligible to be used?

#8 Posted by beatboks1 (7001 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@beatboks1: @esquire:

1- Is it fair to assume that Negative Zone's physics are in effect?

2- are the rings just the rings or could some plot device their team into getting to Parallax or Ion Entity?

3-I know the boons of last round or not eligible, but is the experience of being on Qward eligible to be used?

yes

that would be up to you to justify which I would think would be tough in the time frame of a single battle, but if you can come up with a plausible reaon why go ahead and try.

yes

#9 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg I'll start us out, I guess.

Since there's no prep, I'm assuming that we begin visible and have only the knowledge that our characters have automatically. Since Mister Terrific was chairman of the JSA for a while and has worked with the JLA as well as being involved in universe-spanning crossovers, he should have pretty good knowledge of Etrigan, Plastic Man, and Aquaman. Coldrake and Damper may have a little knowledge of Arthur and Eel since they've both spent time on the JLA and are consequently famous, but they won't have any intimate knowledge. Similarly, Mimic might know a little about Loki and Kang because they've both done a lot of pretty major attacks on Marvel Earth, but he won't have any great knowledge. Mimic will use his Jean Grey TP to spread his and Terrific's knowledge to the rest of the team, giving us at least a general idea of what we're up against.

Mimic will absorb my team members' powers, and he and Damper will fire up their invisibility fields. Terrific will give a T-Sphere to each of my team-members, which they will morph into T-Masks to block telepathy and render them invisible to technology. Majestic will give a Creation Blade to Mimic and arm himself with the other Blade and the Kheran Blade he keeps in his shoulder pads.

Using their GL Rings, my team will fly a circuitous route to get to your team, taking advantage of their invisibility to attack only once they're ready. Using the GL Rings' communicator ability and with their voices masked by the Damping Fields, Majestic and Terrific will be able to strategize and analyze the opposition before striking at the most advantageous moment.

When the attack begins, your team is at an immediate disadvantage because of Joshua Coldrake. His sole power is that he negates any and all magic used near him. He is so powerful that when the Shadowpact, essentially the Magic Police of the DCU, wanted to create a prison for magical criminals, he was chosen as jailer. This ability will immediately curb the effectiveness of your team by counteracting Loki's, Etrigan's, and Aquaman's magic abilities. Etrigan's power comes mostly from mystical enhancement, so he should be greatly weakened by the lack of mystical power available.

When they do decide to attack, it will come swiftly, decisively, and without warning. Mimic and Majestros, linked by Mimic's TP, will attack at superspeed from inside the invisibility of Mimic's field, armed with swords that cut through anything. I would guess Loki would be the first to be attacked, since they know very little about him. Kang would follow for the same reason. Etrigan would be next, then Aquaman, and finally Plastic Man. Although Plas is hard to kill, the Creation Blades stop regeneration, so he could be incapacitated. If all else fails, Damper and Mimic could contain him with their rings while Terrific and Majestic build a containment unit similar to the one in The Dark Knight Strikes Again. (Non-Canon, but I'm just bringing it up to clarify the method they would employ.)

Even if someone on your team is able to somehow detect my characters, Majestic's superior stats and skill coupled with his pair of Green Lantern Rings and blades that cut through anything and backed by Mimic's equivalent stats and weaponry, as well as unique advantages, should let my team easily handle anyone with detection methods I'm unaware of.

#10 Posted by boschePG (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire:

I have no problem with that strategy. Is was well thought out and very complex and is workable. Do I think you guys could do all that on an instant notice? I qould question it, but for sake of argument I could give you the benefit of the doubt since our teams have both been through 2 other fights so I will take into account amassed teamwork. Do I believe Mr Terrific is going to go start arming people with tech right away when like you said he would know Aquaman, and PlasticMan and Etrigan from the jump? I believe that even less.

But... for sake of this fight I shall proceed with the argument

For the same reason your teams arms real fast I will also say my team will arm too. In battle, this is an instant time freeze moment for Kang. It in his character to do so. Mr T has some time manip capabilities but it isnt his first instinct as you have neglected to state that. Mr Ts tendency would be to increase tech with others with his Tspheres. As for Mr Ts time manip capabilites, Kang would laugh at that. It would be like saying your best highschool basketball player challenged Michael Jordan in his prime.

Kang Time freeze opening

He can also place your team in a time cube

Kangs tech can rival Galactus and Iron Man. He can even get to Reed Richards level. Im stating now that Mr Majestic or Mr Terrific are not on Galactus or Reed Richards level

Kang can pull out weapons with ease to stop Hulk, Silver Surfer whenever he wants. I can get to Mr Majestic

Even if I thought your T-spheres were able to compete, Kang has vast hack abilities with just thought

I will grant you the magic aspect of your team but my team also are equipped with the Yellow Power Rings. I can handle any tech part you so wish to place out here. I think this may go back and forth and since I got to go and do something right now, I will let you retort.

All Im saying is, in character, Kang time freezes the field and then my team can battle. I can also eliminate most of the combos you have with Kang tech. Ill post more when you reply

#11 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

I have no problem with that strategy. Is was well thought out and very complex and is workable. Do I think you guys could do all that on an instant notice? I qould question it, but for sake of argument I could give you the benefit of the doubt since our teams have both been through 2 other fights so I will take into account amassed teamwork. Do I believe Mr Terrific is going to go start arming people with tech right away when like you said he would know Aquaman, and PlasticMan and Etrigan from the jump? I believe that even less.

It sounds like I wasn't clear in my explanation. My apologies. I'll try to clarify my intent. When the match starts, Damper is going to fire up his invisibility field. That's all he ever does, (it's his only power, after all), and there's no disadvantage to doing it, so there's no reason for him not to do so. It covers people up to about 20 feet away, so my whole team should be encased and undetectable. I don't know if Mimic has to re-absorb his team's powers or if he already has them from last round, but either way he'll also have a field up in a couple of seconds, letting my team spread out more if they want.

So essentially as soon as the match starts I can't be detected. With Majestic's super-speed mind, he'll instantly think to move my team so that you can't just blast where you saw us start. While we're moving away, undetectable, is when people will start exchanging items and discussing strategy. I didn't mean to imply that this would all happen in the opening instant of the battle, although I see why I gave that impression. Since my team is totally undetectable, I have as much time as I want to get everyone on the same page and get gear spread around and the like.

Since my strategy in both previous matches has revolved around Terrific giving each of my team a T-Mask so that they're undetectable by tech, it's something that my team will be used to and comfortable with by now, and it's a precaution I took last round even though none of my opponent's team had any sort of tech. My team's strategy is total invisibility, so that's going to be their first priority no matter what. Just because Michael knows Plas, Etrigan, and Aquaman doesn't mean Terrific won't bother with anti-detection measures, especially since Kang wears a techy-looking helmet.

For the same reason your teams arms real fast I will also say my team will arm too. In battle, this is an instant time freeze moment for Kang. It in his character to do so. Mr T has some time manip capabilities but it isnt his first instinct as you have neglected to state that. Mr Ts tendency would be to increase tech with others with his Tspheres. As for Mr Ts time manip capabilites, Kang would laugh at that. It would be like saying your best highschool basketball player challenged Michael Jordan in his prime.

Seems reasonable. That's his primary power, after all, so I have no problems with Kang opening with it.

Kang Time freeze opening He can also place your team in a time cube

As powerful and effective as Kang is with time-freezing, there's one problem: his victims are always aware of what's going on. And when Majestic knows somebody's messing with he, well, pretty much just walks right through it. And if Majestic can do it, Mimic can too.

Kangs tech can rival Galactus and Iron Man. He can even get to Reed Richards level. Im stating now that Mr Majestic or Mr Terrific are not on Galactus or Reed Richards level

A couple of objections: In your scans, Kang was teamed up with freaking Doctor Doom, arguably the best prepper in comics and one of the very few widely considered to be consistently on Richards' level. And Doom was telling Kang what the cloak would do, so I'm inclined to think that Doom was the one who was making the tech in that situation, not Kang. And although I don't know what story arc that is, I'm pretty sure that was Thanos in the second scan. If they were teamed with the Mad Titan, then that's even less reason to believe Kang is capable of that level of tech on his own. Can you prove that Kang is actually able to build things on a Reed Richards level without assistance from other geniuses?

Majestic might not be on the same level as Reed, but he's pretty darn close. He's done things like invent and build new unheard-of technologies in a matter of seconds, build a computer that scans every computer in 73 different dimensions, create an exosuit so powerful that it actually amps his already ridiculous abilities, create an artificial body for his son that's more powerful than any Kherubim ever, and build a replacement Sun with his hands and heat vision. I think the best description of Majestic's genius is as follows:

"Once again, he proves nothing is impossible."

Do his feats put him on the level of a Mister Fantastic or a Doctor Doom? Perhaps, perhaps not. But you "stating" that he is not isn't sufficient to place Kang's intellect above that of Majestros.

Terrific's feats are perhaps not as impressive, but in addition to his 14 degrees and title of "Third Smartest Man," he's hacked and modified Brainac 5 tech and built his ubiquitous T-Spheres, one of the most versatile pieces of technology in comics. He might not be on Kang's level of intelligence, but he's a fantastic strategist and excellent with technology.

However, I really don't see why this matters. This is a random encounter, Kang won't have an opportunity to build anything, whether he's on Reed's level or not. Majestic's incredible operational speed actually makes creating things a somewhat valid tactic, but I don't think I'll need it here. Intelligence is not a weakpoint of my team, even if you were able to prove that Kang is smarter than Majestic and Terrific.

Kang can pull out weapons with ease to stop Hulk, Silver Surfer whenever he wants. I can get to Mr Majestic

Couple problems:

1. Majestic is undetectable by all conventional means. He's inside a dampening field that blocks all normal senses, and he's made invisible to tech by Terrific's T-Sphere. Even if Holt hasn't given him one yet, Michael will have his anti-tech field expanded to cover everything inside of the Dampening field.

2. Majestic has easily nanosecond operational speed, and even if Kang were somehow able to react to him and shoot at him, he can simply block it with his swords.

(Majestic carries a Kheran Blade in his shoulder pads at all times.)

And 3. Majestic has a potent healing factor, strong enough to heal in seconds after taking both Creation Blades through his torso and falling into a volcano. So even if Kang somehow detects him, reacts to him, tags him, and the attack doesn't get blocked, Majestros will be back on his feet almost instantly.

Even if I thought your T-spheres were able to compete, Kang has vast hack abilities with just thought

But he can't detect them, since they're in a Dampening Field.

I will grant you the magic aspect of your team but my team also are equipped with the Yellow Power Rings. I can handle any tech part you so wish to place out here. I think this may go back and forth and since I got to go and do something right now, I will let you retort.

Your team is far from optimized for Yellow Rings. Plastic Man is the opposite of frightening, and Aquaman isn't much better. Etrigan won't use the ring because he loves pain, and both auto-shields and ranged constructs would prevent him from taking as many hits. Loki doesn't really rely on fear at all, either. He's more about arrogance and tricks. He might be a decent Yellow Lantern, as might Kang, but the rest of your team are very poorly cut out for the Sinestro Corps.

Even if Kang and Loki were as good as Sinestro himself, it wouldn't make much difference. Superman-level characters have been consistently able to break Lantern constructs for decades, and both Majestic and Mimic have easily Superman-level strength. Any constructs or auto-shields that your team tries to construct will be smashed without issue, and the Creation Blade wielded by both Mimic and Majestic should have no trouble slicing and disrupting constructs. They've been able to slice and disrupt Tao when he was made of the energy of Creation itself, so a lesser energy source should pose no problem.

All Im saying is, in character, Kang time freezes the field and then my team can battle. I can also eliminate most of the combos you have with Kang tech. Ill post more when you reply

But Majestic and Mimic can ignore the time-freeze and simply kill Kang while he's unaware of their location. I'm not sure which "combos" you're referring to, or how Kang's tech is going to eliminate them, but I still haven't seen any way that Kang can even figure out where my team is, much less do any damage to them.

#12 Posted by boschePG (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: that was a good reply and though I could place more scans of that Dr Doom/Kang issue and I could reply that Kingsley understanding of time is nothing compared to Kang, your scan of Mr Majestic was a good counterpoint and the fact that I too also dont believe that the yellow power ring is a good fit for my team. I dont think the green power ring is good for my team cuz its so mixed up. I could show tech to disrupt the mental capabilities of alot of your team, but only Kang could really battle with Loki, Aquaman and Etrigan seriously outgunned now without magic. I could never be a politician cuz I cant actually make a good rebuttal and I wont go as so low to miraculously think I can make my whole team yellow against the green, lol. When I battle I actually think I can win certain rounds but when certain scenarios arise, I will not discredit myself and throw garbage out there. I will bow before your team and take honor that my team got this far taking out Thanos, Darkseid, God Spawn, Blackheart, Ghost Rider, Man Thing, Fenrus, Phoenix, and Doomsday.

@beatboks1: I concede to esquire on count that in this setting, he has stated stuff I really cant rebut. I also would like to say Kang is now one of my favorite people in all of comics, lol

#13 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: Thanks for a fun debate! Best of luck in the future, I hope we meet up again sometime.