#1 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle takes place

In the anti matter universe at the planet Qward.

A battle between the Monitors and Anti monitor has swung the monitors way and the entire universe will collapse around you in 12 hours.

Any team who hasn't won their battle in that time will be loose two members for the final round ( those two will have to stay behind to hold your enemy while you escape so they will have to be up to holding your opposition long enough)

The winning team will go into the next round with a yellow or Green power ring for each of it's members ( color of the players choice but one color for whole team ). Sorry but realized not all teams would benefit as much with the fear spectrum.

You get 5 hours of prep before your 12 hours but only basic knowledge of your opponents. You also have little to know awareness of the environment your in.

You have access during that prep to only the things either in this universe or the things could normally be expected to carry. You will have to validate how you are aware of or found out what you plan to use from this universe. Nothing you acquired during the prep of the last round will be with you nor will anything that you took from combatants ( Just want to put this out there this disadvantages me more than anyone else).

The planet is populated

You start at opposite sides of the planet

Temporary BFR allowed ( BFR can not defeat a character each character must be brought back to deal with)

win by standard means Kill, KO, entrap.

All characters are IN CHARACTER

@boschePG (Spear of Destiny Boon)

  • Aquaman (magic hand)
  • Etrigan
  • Kang
  • Loki
  • Plastic Man

CadenceV2 (Soul Gem Boon)

  • Ultimate Phoenix
  • Divine Spawn
  • Blackheart
  • Ghost Rider Ketch (Heaven on Fire)
  • Man Thing

#2 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg

Prep would be Blackheart grabbing his Sword from Mephisto's Rib that will kills souls. He also possess a Antitheses Mirror that makes the Opposite of whoever reflection is caught in it.

Mirror

Sword

So all in all that leaves Blackheart using Prep to simply getting the Blade and Mirror.

Ghost Rider during Heaven on Fire would Split into his 4 equally powerful avatars. Making 5 Ghost Riders.

Man Thing can be guided by Spawn who is a worlds level Empath. So Man Thing can increase size and growth with the earth around him.

With the prep I have 3 incredible leaders. Jean leads the Ultimate X-men after Ultimantum. Spawn was the worlds greatest Merc and Assassin and defeated God and Satan threw planning. Blackheart has overthrown Mephisto from Hell with prep and cleverness.

#3 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#4 Posted by ScottishWarlord (155 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#5 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting debate. grabs popcorn lol

#6 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I just figured out how to find this link. Im here and will post soon

#8 Posted by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio
  
#9 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump (since you locked yourself out @boschepg: flood protection and all)

#10 Edited by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

1- sorry for the wait. I find out that the new format isnt working at my work computer. Cant even write on it at work

2- Now lets fight

Seeing how your team is more magical based then Loki and Etrigan would ply a vital role in this:

Blackheart is your prep guy??? The dude has power and he is an adversary of Ghost Rider but he constantly gets bested by SpiderMan and Daredevil and Punisher and Wolverine in your scan.

Your antithesis mirror has already been done to Etrigan. It didnt turn out so well for your strategy

As I said, we would rely on this and since Etrigan is a Hell Lord Demon level just like Blackheart, Etrigan probably would find some rumor just for fun cuz he such a boss

ManThing is useless on Qward. Have you seen the planet. Its just a baren rock in space. What vegetation. And the fear touch thing, it wouldnt work on Etrigan cuz he fears nothing and took on the Black Lanterns with no fear. Black Lanterns are powered by fear

LOKI

He has connections to Hell too, his daughter is Hela and has even been down to hell numerous times to meet with Blackhearts pop. A matter of fact, Thor used Lokis body and magic in Mephisto's realm to defeat Mephisto. He also has battled Set, Egyptian god of death and Surtur

I believe Loki can misdirect or even cloak my team from yours as he did against Modred, avatar of Chthon

Why would Loki fear death?

Loki can easily locate people

The multiply thing,I can do it too. So can Kang (scans will come soon on his part)I can even power boost my team

And Lokis greatest feats in magic are his misdirection in illusions. He can even fool Surtur (above SpiderManand Daredevil I say in jest)

To point it out cuz we all know how to get to Spawn. Illusions meet he Spawn beater

Would one of my Lokis take form of Wanda to pull at Spawn's strings???? He does it all the time

Aquaman

Aquamans magic hand can negate black magic

And he has been back as a White Lantern

Thats alot of mystical creatures you got there Cadence, speaking of how I got the Spear of Destiny as my boon too.The Spear can take out the Spectre so I think it could take out Ghost Rider, Spawn and Blackheart

retort and Ill reply

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg:

Blackheart is your prep guy??? The dude has power and he is an adversary of Ghost Rider but he constantly gets bested by SpiderMan and Daredevil and Punisher and Wolverine in your scan.

Spider Man and Dardevil: They could not beat him at all, infact BH merely wanted to curropt DD to prove himself to Mephisto, only Mephisto Golden Rule of not being seen by the masses cause him to flee. It was also BH weakest and first showings.

Punisher, Wolverine, Ghost Rider: Punisher and Wolverine stood NO CHANCE against BH. It took GR in beating him. However BH Prepped Plan was not to beat them but use the battle with them to kill Mephisto which worked ;)

The fact is nothing short of Ghost Rider and Son of Satan (both Hell Lord Level) beaten Blackheart. Ever.

Your antithesis mirror has already been done to Etrigan. It didnt turn out so well for your strategy

As I said, we would rely on this and since Etrigan is a Hell Lord Demon level just like Blackheart, Etrigan probably would find some rumor just for fun cuz he such a boss

ManThing is useless on Qward. Have you seen the planet. Its just a baren rock in space. What vegetation. And the fear touch thing, it wouldnt work on Etrigan cuz he fears nothing and took on the Black Lanterns with no fear. Black Lanterns are powered by fear

The anithessis creates the perfect twisted foe for everyone. It will be reflected by BH on your team as well mine while remaining under BH control. This allows me a Army equal to your own while adding my numbers to it :)

Your Outnumbered everytime with foes equal to your own.

Problem with Etrigan is he has lower Durability and Power Showings than Ghost Rider. In no way does he come close. Also I dare say BH is immune to his Soul Burning Hellfire as BH has no Soul and is immune to Soul Burning Hellfire of Ghost Rider as well the Penance Stare. Etrigan is outclass by Spawn, GR, and BH.

Man Thing is Far from Usless. BH with the Soul Gem can transmutate anything.

Turns People into Animals.

Turns Bullets into Water.

Turns a Parachute into Air.

The Point is BH can make Vegetation anywhere on the Battle Field.

Spawn has Already made a entire City with plants and Vegetation from Necroplasma in the Nevada Desert.

As explained here, the city is a result of Necro Plasma, Malbolgia Later reveals it was made by Spawn.

The whole point is Spawn as World Level Divine Spawn can create a Lush Paradise anywhere. So Man Thing has lots to work with.

LOKI

He has connections to Hell too, his daughter is Hela and has even been down to hell numerous times to meet with Blackhearts pop. A matter of fact, Thor used Lokis body and magic in Mephisto's realm to defeat Mephisto. He also has battled Set, Egyptian god of death and Surtur

Uuug. You totaly misread that Scan >_> As a Mephisto fan it is NO SECRET Mephisto biggest Weakness is a Pure Soul. Loki did not beat Mephisto, Thor Soul did. Same goes for Black Pathers Pure Soul, Roxanne (mere human) Pure Soul, Franklin Richards Pure Soul, and many others with pure souls.

I believe Loki can misdirect or even cloak my team from yours as he did against Modred, avatar of Chthon

The multiply thing,I can do it too. So can Kang (scans will come soon on his part)I can even power boost my team

Loki has shown to cloak from Magic. I never seen him cloak from Telepathy of Phoenix level. Nor will Loki be able to cloak himself from the Soul gem, the Universal End All Be All of Soul Detecting, Manipulation, and Draining in 616 universe.

Also I love the Multiply Idea, this helped me now since I have a army of Multiplied in Power Antithesis copies. :)

To point it out cuz we all know how to get to Spawn. Illusions meet he Spawn beater

Would one of my Loki's take form of Wanda to pull at Spawn's strings???? He does it all the time

Well that wont work lol. Spawn as Divine Spawn killed Wanda, Cyan, and Terry lol. He knew he could remake the world how he saw fit and Killed them lol. So no... that will not work.

Aquaman

Aquamans magic hand can negate black magic

And he has been back as a White Lantern

Good thing Spawn, Man Thing, Phoenix, and Ghost Rider do not use Black Magic :)

Thats alot of mystical creatures you got there Cadence, speaking of how I got the Spear of Destiny as my boon too.The Spear can take out the Spectre so I think it could take out Ghost Rider, Spawn and Blackheart

Your Spear of Destiny works by killing whats living. Man Thing is not Alive with no Soul. Same as Blackheart.

I also have a Soul Killing Blade from Blackheart, so I can one shot anyone on your team as well.

Another disadvantage of the Spear of destiny is it has to stab my guys. My Soul Gem merely has to be wielded from the other side of the universe or another Dimension.

Plan

I have the advantage in detecting your team with Blackheart thru the Soul Gem. I can raise entire forest all over over thru Divine Spawn.

Man Thing's Human Intelligence can be access by Jean to let him make smart choices like Kale has.

Then it is a simple matter of...

Bombarding your Team with Soul Eating Blast! (BH)

Mind Raping attacks on Etrigan and Aquaman (Nowhere near Jeans Caliber or shown resistance to Jean Caliber)

And Transmutation from the Soul Gem...

All this is far away from your team.

#12 Edited by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Am I allowed to bring up feats for my boon, the Spear of Destiny from any comic publishing company?

@cadencev2:


Your Spear of Destiny works by killing whats living. Man Thing is not Alive with no Soul. Same as Blackheart.

Another disadvantage of the Spear of destiny is it has to stab my guys. My Soul Gem merely has to be wielded from the other side of the universe or another Dimension.


yet your whole strategy is for Blackheart to use the Soul Gem? You know that is going to morph into a Plot Device on its own merit. Soul Gem on a person that has no soul. The Soul Gem is vampiric in nature and it took the powerful will and soul of Adam Warlock to keep it in check. You know what happens when your Soul Gem can find a better host? It will leave Blackheart for the better oppoturtunity like it always has. @beatboks1If we are in character then is it safe to assume that Cadence's boon is also in character? If so, Iwillgo more into that like I just did

The Spear of Destiny doesnt have to stab people. To say that is like saying the Infinity Guntlet is just a glove. Its a reality warper as well as a time warper, such is the reason the JSA were booted into modern day Earth with the JLA. For a novice, it can pierce a powerful being like the Spectre. For a full fledged mage, like Loki or Etrigan, it can freeze hell like Asmodel did in Day of Judgement. Here is a link explaining the boon of the Spear of Destiny. Go to the part of DC Spear of Destiny

http://www.cosmicteams.com/jsa/spearofdestiny/spear.htm


Aquaman

Aquamans magic hand can negate black magic

And he has been back as a White Lantern

Good thing Spawn, Man Thing, Phoenix, and Ghost Rider do not use Black Magic :)


But your whole plan is the anithesis mirror, from Blackheart, who is a Hell Lord....which is black magic


Your Outnumbered everytime with foes equal to your own.

Problem with Etrigan is he has lower Durability and Power Showings than Ghost Rider. In no way does he come close. Also I dare say BH is immune to his Soul Burning Hellfire as BH has no Soul and is immune to Soul Burning Hellfire of Ghost Rider as well the Penance Stare. Etrigan is outclass by Spawn, GR, and BH.


Im never outnumbered. I can equal every number you bring up with Loki duplicates and Kang pulling people out of the timeline


Problem with Etrigan is he has lower Durability and Power Showings than Ghost Rider. In no way does he come close. Also I dare say BH is immune to his Soul Burning Hellfire as BH has no Soul and is immune to Soul Burning Hellfire of Ghost Rider as well the Penance Stare. Etrigan is outclass by Spawn, GR, and BH.

Man Thing is Far from Usless. BH with the Soul Gem can transmutate anything.

Turns People into Animals.

Turns Bullets into Water.

Turns a Parachute into Air.

The Point is BH can make Vegetation anywhere on the Battle Field.

Spawn has Already made a entire City with plants and Vegetation from Necroplasma in the Nevada Desert.

As explained here, the city is a result of Necro Plasma, Malbolgia Later reveals it was made by Spawn.

The whole point is Spawn as World Level Divine Spawn can create a Lush Paradise anywhere. So Man Thing has lots to work with.

Loki can rebel plant life. Manthing cant even get near him. As for Etrigan, Loki can also boost powers

I have to continue this on edit or part 2

#13 Posted by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio

part 2 pics of Loki rebelling plant life and power boost


Well that wont work lol. Spawn as Divine Spawn killed Wanda, Cyan, and Terry lol. He knew he could remake the world how he saw fit and Killed them lol. So no... that will not work.


Im trying to break the Blackheart influence by tempting to Spawns feelings toward Wanda.

Your plan is Blackheart. My plan is centered around Loki...and I think Loki would know how to handle the Soul Gem and is qualities since he once dealt with the Infinity Gems but Ill post those scans later. I got to go. Your plan is good,but I think Loki can discredit everything you are saying in your plan and I will continue that later

#14 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg:

Your Spear of Destiny works by killing whats living. Man Thing is not Alive with no Soul. Same as Blackheart.

Another disadvantage of the Spear of destiny is it has to stab my guys. My Soul Gem merely has to be wielded from the other side of the universe or another Dimension.

yet your whole strategy is for Blackheart to use the Soul Gem? You know that is going to morph into a Plot Device on its own merit. Soul Gem on a person that has no soul. The Soul Gem is vampiric in nature and it took the powerful will and soul of Adam Warlock to keep it in check. You know what happens when your Soul Gem can find a better host? It will leave Blackheart for the better oppoturtunity like it always has. @beatboks1If we are in character then is it safe to assume that Cadence's boon is also in character? If so, Iwillgo more into that like I just did

As Killemall explains the Soul Gem lost seinteince after the recent IG arc. So HA! It has no will now.

The Spear of Destiny doesnt have to stab people. To say that is like saying the Infinity Guntlet is just a glove. Its a reality warper as well as a time warper, such is the reason the JSA were booted into modern day Earth with the JLA. For a novice, it can pierce a powerful being like the Spectre. For a full fledged mage, like Loki or Etrigan, it can freeze hell like Asmodel did in Day of Judgement. Here is a link explaining the boon of the Spear of Destiny. Go to the part of DC Spear of Destiny

So it "Stabed" Specter and Froze Hell. Thats it? Mine has Feat wise Transmutate Matter on the Molecule Level and Rend Souls to the point were Mephisto in his own Realm was powerless before it.

Feat wise mine has done more and better.

But your whole plan is the anithesis mirror, from Blackheart, who is a Hell Lord....which is black magic

Where in heck do you think my whole Argument is base around Blackheart? I have a solid plan for every guy here. Black Heart is merely the ONLY guy who uses prep. Point is my team is so awsome they whoop Prepsters without any.

Im never outnumbered. I can equal every number you bring up with Loki duplicates and Kang pulling people out of the timeline

No you cant. Loki has a limit as shown in feats. He never could swarm Thor with uncountable foes. Never ever could he do that. Kang can pull whoever he wants from time, will not stop the fact that GRs will easily burn the masses in seconds ot Blackhert using his Mirror, or the Soul Eating Virus Blasts, or Spawn Wiping the Whole World in one blast of All Targeted LIFE.
Divine Spawn can kill your whole Army in one blow. No one, not even your mighty Loki, ever affected or kill ALL LIFE on a planet scale. Spawn can and has.
All you show is a VERY small scale feat of Attacking Plants vs loki. What has this got to do with Magic Plants created by Spawn over the Planet?

Again i have no clue where the whole Spawn is influence and lynchpin around Blackheart coming from? Spawn was never influence by Malbolgia, Mammon, or Satan. Why would Blackheart succed in influeincing when Spawn is more powerful than him?

#15 Edited by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio


Where in heck do you think my whole Argument is base around Blackheart? I have a solid plan for every guy here. Black Heart is merely the ONLY guy who uses prep. Point is my team is so awsome they whoop Prepsters without any.

Hmm, maybe cuz you said


The Point is BH can make Vegetation anywhere on the Battle Field.


and you said this


The anithessis creates the perfect twisted foe for everyone. It will be reflected by BH on your team as well mine while remaining under BH control. This allows me a Army equal to your own while adding my numbers to it :)


You have stated some sort of plan with Blackheart and your team. It was the only reason why I didnt question Ghost Rider and Black Heart being on the same team

now for rebuttals:


The fact is nothing short of Ghost Rider and Son of Satan (both Hell Lord Level) beaten Blackheart. Ever.


So it "Stabed" Specter and Froze Hell. Thats it? Mine has Feat wise Transmutate Matter on the Molecule Level and Rend Souls to the point were Mephisto in his own Realm was powerless before it.

Feat wise mine has done more and better.


Uuug. You totaly misread that Scan >_> As a Mephisto fan it is NO SECRET Mephisto biggest Weakness is a Pure Soul. Loki did not beat Mephisto, Thor Soul did. Same goes for Black Pathers Pure Soul, Roxanne (mere human) Pure Soul, Franklin Richards Pure Soul, and many others with pure souls.


Your Spear of Destiny works by killing whats living. Man Thing is not Alive with no Soul. Same as Blackheart.

I also have a Soul Killing Blade from Blackheart, so I can one shot anyone on your team as well.

Another disadvantage of the Spear of destiny is it has to stab my guys. My Soul Gem merely has to be wielded from the other side of the universe or another Dimension.

1-what is Etrigan?

2- Umm,No. It also has its Sphere of Influence Spell, which:

The Sphere of Influence itself was an extremely formidable spell, capable of automatically controlling the minds and wills of the most powerful metahumans and sorcerers at tremendous distances without even requiring the conscious volition of the Spear’s wielder.

Last I checked 4/5ths of your team are magic. The last one is still meta hman.

In post-Crisis continuity, the Sphere of Influence apparently affected all metahuman heroes, even those whose power was not derived from magical sources. In National Comics (second series) #1, for example, the Flash felt the edges of the Sphere of Influence while on a mission in Dresden in early 1945. Presumably, nonpowered and purely mechanically based heroes remained unaffected.

3. I didnt misunderstood the scan. I told you from the jump it was Thor as Loki. Thor doesnt know how to use Lokis power, especially not in Mephisto's realm yet hedid use a spell to show him the true soul. Loki himself has also battled death level characters in provided scans against Seth and Dormammu. We all know Death/Hell Lords get a boost in their won dimension yet he has repeatedly battled in their arena. Blackheart is not in his realm.

Saying I had to actually stab you with the Spear means you are underestimating the Spear. I dont need to one shot you, your whole team would be under the influence of the Spear from the jump

4. Loki may not overwhelm people with sheer numbers but Kang does all the time. I even posted a scan of multiple Kangs. Its one

of his known tacics.

5-Kangs tech is know to be TP resistant to Mantis (the Celestial Madonna,Galactus and Dr Strange. Pics at thebottom

This whole time Ive been countering your attacks

1-your antithesis mirror...which is black magic, can be beat by Aquamans mystic hand and itsability to counter black magic. You arent getting duplicates


Who on the scan you provided can counter black magic like Aquamans hand? Agent venom? no. Rulk? no. X-23?no. the new Ghost Rider chick? no

2-You have stated a good plan to use ManThing but I have shown scans that Etrigan does not fear anything.

CRITICAL POINT COMING:

Now if I can set my attack reasoning

As in beatboks1vs mr_ingenuity battle- http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/planetary-round-2-mr-ingenuity-vs-beatboks1-1449555/

Blackheart has never ever had the soul gem. It takes time to learn its effects. Even for Adam Warlock. Im supposed to believe that Blackheart is going to master this in 5 hours? Blackheart is a novice with the Soul Gem while Loki has possessed all the gems

Loki knows the effects of all the Gems. The Soul Gem isnt the most powerfullest Gem. I think the Reality Gem is, but no Gem trumps the other. It doesnt e ven begin to ask how a person with no soul is supposed to fuse with the Soul gem. Are you assuming cuz Mephisto once held the Gauntlet for a minute? Cuz then he had the entire Gauntlet which made that possible. Does Blackheart still go into the Soul Gem heaven like state where everyone is at peace? I just think that Blackheart has no previous prep with this Gem and we have all seen what all the Gems have done to inexperienced users. I think the Soul Gem would have been better placed on someone else on your team but you picked Blackheart. If I gave the Spear to PlasticMan then all the Spear would do is stab mystic beings, but I gave it to Loki. The Spear has been told to bring on Ragnorak. And Im giving that power to Loki who knows what Ragnorak is

And yet since you thinkit can "only" hurt the Spectre that its a fault. Are you saying that Spawn and Ghost Rider are above Spectre level?

Point is, I think my big guy has known prep with the item you are depending on with one of the Infinity Gems while I have its DC equivalent in the Spear.

I think my team can handle most of your points but in the end, especially with a novice with the Soul Gem, how does your team counter the Sphere of Influence spell when all your team is magic based. Its like if your entire team was from Krypton and I had Kryptonite.

Kang

#16 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@beatboks1: Am I allowed to bring up feats for my boon, the Spear of Destiny from any comic publishing company?


It's the DC one only. Realistically that's powerful enough. I mean it gives the power to control high level beings and defeat the likes of the spectre. Sorry for not responding to your query sooner, but I didn't want to add anything on your behalf to the battle if you didn't. I missed the last post where you did.

#17 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg:

Hmm, maybe cuz you said

@cadencev2 said:

The Point is BH can make Vegetation anywhere on the Battle Field.

and you said this

@cadencev2 said:

The anithessis creates the perfect twisted foe for everyone. It will be reflected by BH on your team as well mine while remaining under BH control. This allows me a Army equal to your own while adding my numbers to it :)

You have stated some sort of plan with Blackheart and your team. It was the only reason why I didnt question Ghost Rider and Black Heart being on the same team

I really dont have some super uber plan. The point of my team is working on the fly. In all honest there is no plan vs your team as none of my characters (or yours) have any real run ins with the other. My Prep was simply to make Sure Man Thing is good to go, which he is, and BH to be prepared to one shot anyone on your team with his Gear and the Soul Gem.

1-what is Etrigan?

2- Umm,No. It also has its Sphere of Influence Spell, which:

The Sphere of Influence itself was an extremely formidable spell, capable of automatically controlling the minds and wills of the most powerful metahumans and sorcerers at tremendous distances without even requiring the conscious volition of the Spear’s wielder.

Last I checked 4/5ths of your team are magic. The last one is still meta hman.

The last one is a Abstract Being. Ghost Rider is a Angel of Gods Wrath, not a Sorcerer. Same with Blackheart as the Devils Son. Man thing is neither Meta Human nor Sorcerer, he is the Nexus of all mArvel Realities and more of a thing. Spawn is the equal of God and Satan.

Nothing you listed is a Sorcerer or Meta Human.

In post-Crisis continuity, the Sphere of Influence apparently affected all metahuman heroes, even those whose power was not derived from magical sources. In National Comics (second series) #1, for example, the Flash felt the edges of the Sphere of Influence while on a mission in Dresden in early 1945. Presumably, nonpowered and purely mechanically based heroes remained unaffected.

So what about Abstract beings and Angels? Would Lucifer or Michael (the 2 angels) be affected? Highly doubt it. GR is a Angel.

3. I didnt misunderstood the scan. I told you from the jump it was Thor as Loki. Thor doesnt know how to use Lokis power, especially not in Mephisto's realm yet hedid use a spell to show him the true soul. Loki himself has also battled death level characters in provided scans against Seth and Dormammu. We all know Death/Hell Lords get a boost in their won dimension yet he has repeatedly battled in their arena. Blackheart is not in his realm.

Saying I had to actually stab you with the Spear means you are underestimating the Spear. I dont need to one shot you, your whole team would be under the influence of the Spear from the jump

Its hard to say that when the Soul Gem equally rapes your team of their souls being the most powerful soul Stealing Artifact of the Universe. 1/6 of the IG that pwns Eternity!

Another Soul Steal case.

Even Mephisto in his own Realm was no match vs the Soul Gem.

4. Loki may not overwhelm people with sheer numbers but Kang does all the time. I even posted a scan of multiple Kangs. Its one

of his known tacics.

Does it matter when half the guy Kang is throwing out is too low to compete and BH Antithesis Mirror makes Copies anyway? You cannot overwhelm me.

1) My Soul gem alone will rape the whole army in one shot.

2) Divine Spawn as I showed can one shot a Planet worth of Life he wants dead!

3) Antithesis Mirror will swell my Army while Kang loses his.

Great plan.

5-Kangs tech is know to be TP resistant to Mantis (the Celestial Madonna,Galactus and Dr Strange. Pics at thebottom

This whole time Ive been countering your attacks

Not really, I have not ONCE mention TP as a means to win.

1-your antithesis mirror...which is black magic, can be beat by Aquamans mystic hand and itsability to counter black magic. You arent getting duplicates

So aquaman little hand is beating BH mirror (That he has no initial knowledge about) as well the like of...

5 Ghost Riders

Manthing that burns D'Spayre, Thog, Hyperion, and Hulk into KOes.

Divine Spawn who was equal to God and Satan or Abstract Phoenix. Both can time Stop.

Who on the scan you provided can counter black magic like Aquamans hand? Agent venom? no. Rulk? no. X-23?no. the new Ghost Rider chick? no

WTH you talking about? BH is using the Soul Gem to KO your team of the bat. You have shown no Defense vs a Soul Raping universal Item. Or 5 GRs can PS Aquaman silly with their holy power....

2-You have stated a good plan to use ManThing but I have shown scans that Etrigan does not fear anything.

If Man Thing cannot affect Entrigan, then Divine Spawn or Heaven On Fire GR will crush him. Both are leagues superior in Durability and Power output.

Loki knows the effects of all the Gems. The Soul Gem isnt the most powerfullest Gem. I think the Reality Gem is, but no Gem trumps the other. It doesnt e ven begin to ask how a person with no soul is supposed to fuse with the Soul gem. Are you assuming cuz Mephisto once held the Gauntlet for a minute? Cuz then he had the entire Gauntlet which made that possible. Does Blackheart still go into the Soul Gem heaven like state where everyone is at peace? I just think that Blackheart has no previous prep with this Gem and we have all seen what all the Gems have done to inexperienced users. I think the Soul Gem would have been better placed on someone else on your team but you picked Blackheart. If I gave the Spear to PlasticMan then all the Spear would do is stab mystic beings, but I gave it to Loki. The Spear has been told to bring on Ragnorak. And Im giving that power to Loki who knows what Ragnorak is

The Soul gem is actually the most used and feat wise Gem in the whole Marvel continuity. Also the Reality gem is not the most powerful. None of them are stronger than the other. Just their Usefulness.

As Seen the Soul Gem Transmutation is UNPARALLELED and Molecule Man in level. It can Soul Rape anything with a Soul as well.

Easy win over your Spear of Destiny that affect only Meta Humans and Sorcerers. Loki's knowledge mean jack when he is easily taken out by anyone on my team.

And yet since you thinkit can "only" hurt the Spectre that its a fault. Are you saying that Spawn and Ghost Rider are above Spectre level?

Are you saying your team Souls will not be stolen before you know where I am ot when to attack? I think no one on your team is above Mephisto in his Realm... just saying.

Point is, I think my big guy has known prep with the item you are depending on with one of the Infinity Gems while I have its DC equivalent in the Spear.

I also have 5 other BIG GUYS to your whole Low End High Tier.

I think my team can handle most of your points but in the end, especially with a novice with the Soul Gem, how does your team counter the Sphere of Influence spell when all your team is magic based. Its like if your entire team was from Krypton and I had Kryptonite.

I being bread and raise on Soul Manipulation, Soul Corruption, and Soul Stealing, would have no way of using the Soul Gem.... really think about that.

Kryptonite, Not really, Im more like the Daximites here and you have NO LEAD. Phoenix is a Abstract not a Meta Human. Nice try there. By definaition the Spear would not affect a Souless Manthing, Devils Son, Angel of God, or the Equivalent of God in Image.

#18 Edited by oceanmaster21 (7999 posts) - - Show Bio

good debate u guys love this match

#19 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting now open

#20 Posted by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio
  
#21 Posted by boschePG (2325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: just to reply to your closing

1- Your so called Soul Gem KO attack Im claiming wont work since Blackheart would already be under the Spear's influence. If you looked at the link I provided about the Spear, you can also look at it on dcwiki and comicvine, it makes all magical users fall under the influence of the Spear like how it hurt Spectre, a non sorcererbut magical being. You said the Soul Gem isnt sentinent anymore so it would need Blackheart to find us and use it but he would be under the Spears influence by then and thats not even taking to account the said prep time with the Soul for which I claim Blackheart wont have mastery over.

2- Yes the Spear would hurt all your Ghost Riders cuz he is an angel just like Spectre is an Angel.

3- Blackheart isnt the son of the devil. Mephisto isnt the devil of the fallen angel from grace. He is a being that came to being after the Demiurge purged Chthon and Set and others out from Earth. He still is a magical creature.

4- Your Spawn is not on Presence level. If so, he is way too OP. Even so, the Spear killed Jesus. Jesus trumps angels

5- Time manipulation? really? You know I have Kang right who defeated the Time Keepers,who know all time

6- Even if you dont claim ManThing is magical, his dependenceon spawn or blackheart shrivels since Im claiming both would be under the influence of the Spear

7-working on the fly against Loki whohas full knowledge of the Soul Gem with a boon that can bring Ragnorak sounds like a formidable plan

I didnt post any thing just wanted to drop some replies to your comments

#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: Specters a angel? I thought he was a dead guy who gains power from the Presence.

#23 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: He's a dead guy who's soul is bonded to the Angel Aztar. Aztar was an angel who sided with Lucifer in the rebellion but repented for his sins and was made God's wrath. The reason he has power without the presence "granting it" is because of the Angels part in the mix.

Similarly Phantom Stranger is an angel who refused to take a side and had to prove himself to the Presence by being there for every man in his hour of greatest need.

my vote goes to Boschepg. Very close but.

#24 Posted by ScottishWarlord (155 posts) - - Show Bio

I give my vote to Boschepg by a hairs breadth, really good debate on both your parts :)

#25 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

more votes

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: BTW that was for the pre Nu52 Spectre and Phantom Stranger. Post I don't know about. But post we haven't seen the spear either, so feats relating to it are Pre.

#28 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7512 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#29 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Got to edge this one to Bosche. I feel like he addressed Cadence's points a little more thoroughly, but it's pretty dang close.