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@beatboks1:

2 changes I want now.

Get rid of Goku.

I want instead Ghost Rider (Hell Lord Nobel Kale) and Ghost Rider (Heaven on Fire Ketch)

Both are separate Entities.

Nobel separated from Ketch to become Hell Lord.

Ketch absorbed the powers of several other Ghost Riders to become Heaven on Fire GR.

If somebody else drops out of the tourney I would like to take their spot(chances are that wont, but what the heck), if that is okay.

Man when is @bornstar going to reply. I want to know if he' willing to trade Thor for Silver Surfer.

I'm considering dropping Despero from my team in lue of Ian Karkull. any objections?

@beatboks1: I'm fine if you use Despero. It's just his T/P that worries me.

Has the fate of Wally West been determined? If Zoom wasnt allowed, I think Wally probably shouldnt either. His unmatched speed combined with speed-steal and all the other BS powers (flying, phasing through objects, IMP, etc) make him one giant uber plot device. Didnt he take out the Anti-Monitor once? Seriously, how is he allowed?

@beatboks1 said:

I'm considering dropping Despero from my team in lue of Ian Karkull. any objections?

I dont even know who that is. lol

@beatboks1: Also did you get my PM on my 2 character changes?

@beatboks1 said:

I'm considering dropping Despero from my team in lue of Ian Karkull. any objections?

Despero was one of the characters I wanted originally, but was taken. If you drop him, can you add him to my team and take out Cyborg Superman? Thanks!

wally has been swapped for Maxima. yeah I got your pm candence I'm at work on teambreak will look at them at home tonight. Despero wasn't really my strongest TPer both Ultra and Brainwave would be above him.'Ian Karkull was/ is an enemy of Dr Fate and the JSA. his powers are very similar to obsidian since Obie got them from Karkull's shadow energy being absorbed into the JSA. he has however a lot less showings than Obsidian to use and never really reached his peaks, plus he only has a shadow form.

H/P Doomsday, Kuurth & Starbreaker still need to be addressed.

Surprise no one went with Alucard or Darkness. LOL I have no clue why I felt the need to mention that.

@CadenceV2: Actually boschePG went for Alucard before he dropped. I would think Alucard comparable feats to any one in this tourney.

@CadenceV2 said:

Surprise no one went with Alucard or Darkness. LOL I have no clue why I felt the need to mention that.

Alucard ain't going to do much in this tourny unless he's fighting the anime team.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@CadenceV2 said:

Surprise no one went with Alucard or Darkness. LOL I have no clue why I felt the need to mention that.

Alucard ain't going to do much in this tourny unless he's fighting the anime team.

Alucard is comparable as he has 6,000,000 Free Lives! He also can absorb any blood on the battlefield to increase his life. His Shadow/Blood forms encompass a city! He has the Baskerville Hound, Rip Van Winckle's Magic Bullets, Dandy Man's Magic Cards (that cancel Healing Factors), as well Intangibility, Shadow Teleporting, and his Hyper Sonic Speeds.

He can be a real contender more so than most.

@CadenceV2 said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@CadenceV2 said:

Surprise no one went with Alucard or Darkness. LOL I have no clue why I felt the need to mention that.

Alucard ain't going to do much in this tourny unless he's fighting the anime team.

Alucard is comparable as he has 6,000,000 Free Lives! He also can absorb any blood on the battlefield to increase his life. His Shadow/Blood forms encompass a city! He has the Baskerville Hound, Rip Van Winckle's Magic Bullets, Dandy Man's Magic Cards (that cancel Healing Factors), as well Intangibility, Shadow Teleporting, and his Hyper Sonic Speeds.

He can be a real contender more so than most.

As much as I would debate this, i'm going to save this until the tourny.

@ThunderGodsWrath: No one will pick Alucard tho :)

Not this guy anyway.

@CadenceV2: Pre Shaman King Hao's Spirit of Fire would eat Alucard & all the souls he absorbed.

@CadenceV2 said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: No one will pick Alucard tho :)

Not this guy anyway.

Oh, but really non of those attacks would hurt any one in the tourny. Except Naruto and so,

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@CadenceV2: Pre Shaman King Hao's Spirit of Fire would eat Alucard & all the souls he absorbed.

Dont know who that is lol.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: No one will pick Alucard tho :)

Not this guy anyway.

Oh, but really non of those attacks would hurt any one in the tourny. Except Naruto and so,

I think the Magic Bullets from Rip Van Mrinckle are pretty serious buissness and clearly Hypersonic compared to normal Bullets.

Also Dandy Mans Cards have never met anything they could not cut.

@CadenceV2: This Kid

Hao run's around with an elemental spirit that eats other spirits/souls for the lulz.

@CadenceV2: Damn

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@CadenceV2: This Kid

Hao run's around with an elemental spirit that eats other spirits/souls for the lulz.

Im not worried. Im sure I can debate the uselessness of Soul Attacks or devouring on all 5 of my team.

@CadenceV2: That is Pre I have Post :P

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@CadenceV2: That is Pre I have Post :P

Still cool as Ice.

Im curious too. Does anyone have a Problem of me using the God Emperor of Mankind (40k)

@CadenceV2: From what I hear/read he's a casual solar system buster. Although the limit is Odin he must balance out with Thanos & not merely knock Thanos aside like fodder...

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@CadenceV2: From what I hear/read he's a casual solar system buster. Although the limit is Odin he must balance out with Thanos & not merely knock Thanos aside like fodder...

....... So that be a no :)

@CadenceV2: To put it lightly it's a WTF are you thinking....ಠ_ಠ

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@CadenceV2: To put it lightly it's a WTF are you thinking....ಠ_ಠ

..... How Much I like 40K

Warhammer 40k has suffered horribly from power creep. Using anything high tier is ridiculous and anything low tier gets eaten alive.

@DireDrill: Yes, they have gotten more and more Op with every Horus Heresy Novel and Codex that comes out.

I think the problem is that they have been attempting to keep up with Star Wars EU and all its ridiculousness.

@DireDrill: Even 10 years ago 40K beats Star Wars by miles in alot of things? Now they are Worlds length lol.

That may be true, my knowledge of 40k is not near as solid as my knowledge of Star Wars but let's try and stay on topic because we don't want this to turn into some Star Wars versus 40k thread, lol.

@beatboks1: Right to clarify on the 3 of mine that are getting questioned.

Starbreaker, is a beast yes. But a lot of what gets thrown into his profile is hyperbole and hasn't been backed up by actual on panel feats. Essentially, he can absorb copious amounts of energy (Maximum was a Star, which is something that Quasar has done in the past) , which in turn gives him Superman like stats (He's been known to give Superman a good fight and knock him around a bit. But he's not PC Mongul strong). He has been known to take on the Justice League (Both Post-Crisis, and the 2006 version), but he's been beaten before. As a restriction, I'll only use STARBREAKER. Not his 'true form' which is significantly more powerful.

Kyle Rayner is one of the greatest Green Lantern, however in a tournament of this capacity, that doesn't mean much. The benefits of being the White Lantern allow him mastery over the entire Emotional Spectrum. He's not displayed a significant power increase, if any at all. He's just very adaptable due to the other benefits of the Rings, such as Indigo's teleportation, or Star Sapphire's Crystalization.

Finally, Phoenix Cyclops. To put him in 'Dark Phoenix's' league is a bit excessive. He displayed feats now where near her level. Sure he took on Thor, but that was something he did whilst only at 1/5th. There was no actual truly noticable power upgrade on Full Phoenix Cyclops, the only real benefit to me is that it gives me more feats to draw from as otherwise Phoenix Five Cyclops is a bit lacking.

@Backflip said:

@beatboks1: Right to clarify on the 3 of mine that are getting questioned.

Starbreaker, is a beast yes. But a lot of what gets thrown into his profile is hyperbole and hasn't been backed up by actual on panel feats. Essentially, he can absorb copious amounts of energy (Maximum was a Star, which is something that Quasar has done in the past) , which in turn gives him Superman like stats (He's been known to give Superman a good fight and knock him around a bit. But he's not PC Mongul strong). He has been known to take on the Justice League (Both Post-Crisis, and the 2006 version), but he's been beaten before. As a restriction, I'll only use STARBREAKER. Not his 'true form' which is significantly more powerful.

His maximum wasn't a star. In Planet Heist, he was going to absorb the energy of the entire universe by having the zero-point device direct it all at him. He has basically no limits to the amount of energy he can absorb, and Superman does not give him a good fight ---- he's been crushed by Starbreaker multiple times. He can also move planets from their orbits telekinetically and laugh off blows from multiple Superman-level beings.

It's not so much the power upgrade that's questionable, it's the fact that there are only two ways to hurt the Phoenix Five.

@CitizenBane said:

@Backflip said:

@beatboks1: Right to clarify on the 3 of mine that are getting questioned.

Starbreaker, is a beast yes. But a lot of what gets thrown into his profile is hyperbole and hasn't been backed up by actual on panel feats. Essentially, he can absorb copious amounts of energy (Maximum was a Star, which is something that Quasar has done in the past) , which in turn gives him Superman like stats (He's been known to give Superman a good fight and knock him around a bit. But he's not PC Mongul strong). He has been known to take on the Justice League (Both Post-Crisis, and the 2006 version), but he's been beaten before. As a restriction, I'll only use STARBREAKER. Not his 'true form' which is significantly more powerful.

His maximum wasn't a star. In Planet Heist, he was going to absorb the energy of the entire universe by having the zero-point device direct it all at him. He has basically no limits to the amount of energy he can absorb, and Superman does not give him a good fight ---- he's been crushed by Starbreaker multiple times. He can also move planets from their orbits telekinetically and laugh off blows from multiple Superman-level beings.

Finally, Phoenix Cyclops. To put him in 'Dark Phoenix's' league is a bit excessive. He displayed feats now where near her level. Sure he took on Thor, but that was something he did whilst only at 1/5th. There was no actual truly noticable power upgrade on Full Phoenix Cyclops, the only real benefit to me is that it gives me more feats to draw from as otherwise Phoenix Five Cyclops is a bit lacking.

It's not so much the power upgrade that's questionable, it's the fact that there are only two ways to hurt the Phoenix Five.

While Wanda and Hope were the only ones who did anything in that arc, tech and powerful enough beings have affected the Phoenix before and should be reasonably able to smack down a Phoenix Five member. That said, I don't think anyone here is gonna have Galactus on their team sooooo...

@CitizenBane@beatboks1

Alrighty, I admit that Starbreaker is pretty hard to level down and is probably in excess. Okay he's definitely in excess, but got to test the waters :P

I'll replace him with Morg w/ Waters of Life?

However, I still stand by my reasoning that Phoenix Cyclops falls within the limits. Sure PIS meant that he wasn't shown to be hurts significantly by anything other than Wanda, but regardless, he was still giving a beating around by Hulk, Thor etc. Namor himself would never have won the match in Wakanda, regardless of Wanda's intervention. He would have been beaten. Surely that is proof that the Phoenix Five can be beaten.

@Backflip:

Kyle Rayner is one of the greatest Green Lantern, however in a tournament of this capacity, that doesn't mean much. The benefits of being the White Lantern allow him mastery over the entire Emotional Spectrum. He's not displayed a significant power increase, if any at all. He's just very adaptable due to the other benefits of the Rings, such as Indigo's teleportation, or Star Sapphire's Crystalization.

No power increase? Come on dude. GLNG 16 has him getting his ass handed to him by Ganthet with mastery of 6 of the emotions in the spectrum and like half a dozen Star Sapphires helping him. He master's Love and effortlessly destroys an entire contingent of the third army and sends Ganthet into retreat and then in GLC Annual he's the reason the other Guardians run away and Ganthet admits that Kyle is too powerful for them to handle... That puts him above multiple Guardian level. I'll leave it up to@beatboks1and everyone else to decide if that's too powerful or not as I don't know enough about hashing tge dc powerscale against the Marvel powerscale to say if that puts him above or not.

Finally, Phoenix Cyclops. To put him in 'Dark Phoenix's' league is a bit excessive. He displayed feats now where near her level. Sure he took on Thor, but that was something he did whilst only at 1/5th. There was no actual truly noticable power upgrade on Full Phoenix Cyclops, the only real benefit to me is that it gives me more feats to draw from as otherwise Phoenix Five Cyclops is a bit lacking.

The only thing that damaged him were Hope & Wanda's chaos magic.... at Full Phoenix power (AVX 12), he showed complete invulnerability to everything else, including effortlessly fighting the Avengers & X-Men at the same time including: Hulk, Rulk, Iceman, Thor, Iron man, Storm etc.

I'll replace him with Morg w/ Waters of Life?

The Hearld? He solo'd Silver Surfer, Airwalker, Nova, Terrax and Firelord at the same time, don't you think that puts him over the limit also?

@Sovereign91001: Tbf, the Guardians don't actually have any feats of note, and neither does Ganthet beyond the vague assertions by Kyle. He lost to Cyborg Superman, and the only time he looked mildly impressive was as a Blue/Green Guardian. Anyway, the Guardians have backed down against Darkseid before, so surely considering he is the limit, then Kyle is in line with that, possibly anyhow.

Aside from that iconic splash, if you actually read the issue, it didn't appear as if Cyclops was fighting 'effortlessly'. Nova knocked him about a bit. However for continuity sakes, I'll remove 'Dark Phoenix' Cyclops on the same basis that Dark Phoenix Jean has been removed. I think Phoenix Five Cyclops (Eg. Pre-AvX #12) should be fine?

Concerning Morg, The only herald of note is really Silver Surfer, who since that occasion has had a power boost that probably would allow him to near enough solo the rest of his companions. So considering that, I'd say that he lies within the limits. Feel free to disagree though :P

@Backflip said:

@Sovereign91001: Tbf, the Guardians don't actually have any feats of note, and neither does Ganthet beyond the vague assertions by Kyle. He lost to Cyborg Superman, and the only time he looked mildly impressive was as a Blue/Green Guardian. Anyway, the Guardians have backed down against Darkseid before, so surely considering he is the limit, then Kyle is in line with that, possibly anyhow.

We know that before Kyle showed up a nice chunk of the GL corp were getting there asses handed to them by the Guardians pretty handily, so there's that. I'm just presenting my pov it's up to beatboks to decide what's over the limit and what isn't.

Aside from that iconic splash, if you actually read the issue, it didn't appear as if Cyclops was fighting 'effortlessly'. Nova knocked him about a bit. However for continuity sakes, I'll remove 'Dark Phoenix' Cyclops on the same basis that Dark Phoenix Jean has been removed. I think Phoenix Five Cyclops (Eg. Pre-AvX #12) should be fine?

Not my call, but for the record, I have actually read that issue (I have it and can post scans if you'd like, supporting what I'm saying) and he showed zero strain fighting the Avenger's and X-Men. (Cyclops references that himself) Nova knocked him around? Nova snuck attack him pile drove him to Earth and Cyclops no-sold the attack, walked out of the Crater with Nova's unconscious body and basically said how foolish it was to oppose him. There was absolutely zero damage done to him throughout the entire issue until Hope and Wanda showed up only then were the others able to inflict any damage on him.

Concerning Morg, The only herald of note is really Silver Surfer, who since that occasion has had a power boost that probably would allow him to near enough solo the rest of his companions. So considering that, I'd say that he lies within the limits. Feel free to disagree though :P

I'm not sure which is why I phrased it as a question my SS reading has been on and off for years. But being able to handily best 5 Hearlds seemed odd so I brought it up, I could very well be wrong.

@Backflip: Morg is fine to replace Starbreaker. I have no problem with any Herald.

If White Lantern Kyle has beaten "multiple" Guardians including Ganthet as @Sovereign91001: said he's OUT. You may not think Ganthet has feats but I know of plenty and he would just fit within the limits him with the back up

As Far as Pheonix 5 Cyclops if it's only his durability not his destructive power that's in question as Sovereign91001 and@CitizenBane:

Seem to say I'll allow. There will be other ways to win like BFR, or temporary BFR or Containment. My own choice of Mordru has been stated to have always been and always will ( it's the reason Hourman 1million couldn't devolve him to a lower power state) and has pretty much always been defeated through containment.

In Mr_Ingenuity's Kuurth with Gem. He has stated it's only his durability that anyone with magic should be able to address. Only a few team are lacking a mage and most of those have a super genius who have defeated higher power beings than that, so if this is true I'm not seeing a problem. Also is he as susceptible to BFR and containment as classic Jugg's?? again the way he was dealt with often.

I still haven't heard from @bornstar as to whether he's still playing ( and I PM's him 18 or so hours ago as well). He's the only one who hasn't replied to confirm. If he doesn't by the time I kick this off when I get up later today (1am Monday here) than I'll allow @joeagentofhand1 to have his spot. You may want to get a team ready for that event.

Off to bed soon, sorry I didn't reply tonight ( fell asleep on the lounge in front of the TV with laptop in lap about to reply -shortly after dinner which I had almost as soon as I got home from work)

@Sovereign91001:

Unnamed GLC members are the Red Shirts of Comics, so it's not the most rewarding of Guardian feats.

Well yeah you've convinced me he's pretty unstoppable as Dark Phoenix. So again, how do you feel about Phoenix Five?

Morg actually was overpowered by the assembled Heralds, it's still a fantastic showing though. However again, Surfer has recieved a power up in Annihilation which allowed him to compete with the 'Primordial Gods'. It's safe to say that Current Surfer =/= Morg WOL. So yeah, he's definitely within the limits.

@beatboks1: Kyle didn't beat multiple Guardians. He beat Ganthet, who you could argue had just gone through an elongated match against the Star Sapphire Corps, however, nevertheless, he never tested his mettle against the Guardians plural. So we're unsure how that match would have panned out.

@beatboks1: When does this start? Also Bornstar doesn't seem to reply, and hasn't been on in 2 days.

@Backflip: @Sovereign91001: I vouch for Phoenx Pyclopes. Green phoenixes have beaten a Hungry Galactus in a good fight. The best we have against Phoenix Cyke is Thor (Low Tier Level in this tourney), Powerful Magics of Wanda (Big deal again, Wanda is not HoM anymore) and Hope (Jean grey level Mutant) and as such a debate could be made against Cyke at the levels we are playing at.

@beatboks1 said:

In Mr_Ingenuity's Kuurth with Gem. He has stated it's only his durability that anyone with magic should be able to address. Only a few team are lacking a mage and most of those have a super genius who have defeated higher power beings than that, so if this is true I'm not seeing a problem. Also is he as susceptible to BFR and containment as classic Jugg's?? again the way he was dealt with often.

Kurth cannot be BFR or Conatained. I proved it already. The Serpent and Cyttorak made it Impossible to BFR Kuurth. Kurth also cannot slowed at all. It is his very power. He is Unstoppable. Magneto could not stop him nor Penance with his kinetic Powers. Then When Colossus was Jugs he could not be contained or stopped when moving.

You cannot realte Claasic Juggs weakness to Kurth. Kuurth has the backing and power of both Odin Level Being and Cyttorak at the same time. he is unbeatable at this level.

You know what. I will face Kuurth first if I have too. I suppose I find a way to win through the most unconventional means.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@beatboks1: When does this start? Also Bornstar doesn't seem to reply, and hasn't been on in 2 days.

Look Up ( maybe page before I said monday when I get up. It monday for me now but aside from falling asleep on the lounge haven't been to bed yet. I'd say 12 hours

Righteo, looks like I won't be getting to keep Kyle, so I'll take Cyborg Superman w/ Sinestro Corps rings instead? I understand that now that Beatboks1 is going change out Despero, Will Payton is keen for a change, and in that case, I'll shift it up.

@beatboks1: Okay.