#1 Posted by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity

Battle takes place

In the anti matter universe at the planet Qward.

A battle between the Monitors and Anti monitor has swung the monitors way and the entire universe will collapse around you in 12 hours.

Any team who hasn't won their battle in that time will be loose two members for the final round ( those two will have to stay behind to hold your enemy while you escape so they will have to be up to holding your opposition long enough)

The winning team will go into the next round with a yellow or Green power ring for each of it's members ( color of the players choice but one color for whole team ). Sorry but realized not all teams would benefit as much with the fear spectrum.

You get 5 hours of prep before your 12 hours but only basic knowledge of your opponents. You also have little to know awareness of the environment your in.

You have access during that prep to only the things either in this universe or the things could normally be expected to carry. You will have to validate how you are aware of or found out what you plan to use from this universe. Nothing you acquired during the prep of the last round will be with you nor will anything that you took from combatants ( Just want to put this out there this disadvantages me more than anyone else).

The planet is populated

You start at opposite sides of the planet

Temporary BFR allowed ( BFR can not defeat a character each character must be brought back to deal with)

win by standard means Kill, KO, entrap.

All characters are IN CHARACTER

Boons won previous round

Power Gem ( chosen Boon) - Mr_Ingenuity

  • New 52 Captain Atom
  • Shaman X-Man
  • Classic/Current Dr Doom
  • Shaman King Hao Asakura (if he's too powerful than Pre Shaman King)
  • Cable

VS

Ring of Life ( Chosen Boon) - Beatboks1

  • Ultra-Humanite
  • Brainwave
  • Mordru (20th century only)
  • Ian Karkull
  • Psycho-Pirate

Prep

Having obtained the Ring of life Mordru will use it and his own ability to siphon the life energy of the inhabitants of Qward. He will do so in a way that evokes fear greater that the populous have ever experienced so that while it powers him up it will also power Up Psycho Pirate by feeding him emotions.

The result will be a world full of newly released spirits that will

a) Be ripe for the soul draining power of Ian Karkull to draw on to also power him up.

b) will mean there will be Thousands upon thousands of souls for the new wielder of the ring of life to control and use to do his bidding.

While Mordru, Ian and Psycho Pirate are basking in the energies that are enhancing their powers my two prep master ultra and Brainwave will be making use of the labs of the weaponers of Qward. These are after all the best weapon makers in the DCU multiverse and taking their materials and 5 hours Ultra and BW will be able to come up with some truly wicked weapons with amazing destructive and defensive capability.

Your Turn - let me know if I got your team wrong even that wasn't right on the other thread andI was sure it was updated before the Friday cut off

#2 Posted by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#3 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Long post is long.

Mr_Ingenuity Team

  • New 52 Captain Atom

  • Shaman X-Man

  • Classic/Current Dr Doom

  • Shaman King Hao Asakura w/ Spirit of Fire

  • Savior Cable w/ Tech & Info Net

Image formatting is bugged so scans will come later.

5 hrs Prep

My team will prep for all possible encounters, with Captain Atom, Cable, Doom, & X-Man it's not just possible it will happen.

Captain Atom

He'll start by duplicating himself 30 times, duplicates are separate bodies with a hive mind, and this will be uses full to complete every stated task along with the help of super speed.

His first mission will be to head off into the time stream for more info on opponents and battle field. In the time stream no time passes allowing one to see the past, present, & future like an ocean with all events happening simultaneously. He will see the current outcome of the battle(good or bad) before it even starts sharing this info with his team. This will require no more than 5 duplicates.

The rest of his prep will be to aid his teammate.

Cable

His main prep will be to formulate a strategy bring his team together to gather/share equipment, & formulate plans/countermeasures.

Dr Doom

Doom will enlist the help of teammates in return he will supply them tech upgrades, magic defense & healing.

First off Doom always has his syphoning tech hidden in his gauntlets and it has work on telepaths/telekinetic(Cable,Strife,& X-Man) magic users (hell lords & Odin force), energy manipulators(captain universe Galactus) & (multiversal) reality wrappers(Franklin Richards, Scarlet Witch, & PR Beyonder).

Captain Atom & Hao have been shown to give normal humans powers so working together Doom he can acquire their powers to the same degree. Also working together X-Man and Cable will supply Doom telepathic & telekinesis via tech.

After this encounter he will work on two sides of prep.

Tech

He'll start by re-creating and perfecting the tech he has created or used via superspeed, matter, energy manipulation and for good measure time manipulation. Perfecting them to face off against Thor & Hulk level opponents.

Tech will include:

  • All forms time manipulation

  • Various rays (disintegration, time, reducing etc.)

  • Syphoning tech

  • Teleportation devices.

  • Various nano machines/micro computer.

  • Various shields

  • Invisibility

  • Various guns

  • PSI blocker

  • Holograms

  • Various nullifiers

  • Fear to Rage Converter

  • Adamantium (Doom knows the formula for this)

  • Doombots (200)

I’ll stop there but there is more & I have a scan for every device.

Then combine this tech into his armor, some into Doombots, & most into suits for my team (including the 30 Captain Atoms)

If you don’t believe Doom can build these machines with superspeed, matter, energy manipulation & time manipulation. He has 25 Captain Atoms & Cable both with technopathy & matter manipulation.

Magic

He will then amp himself, his inventions & allies with magic as he has done before providing magical protection & magical amped attacks.

Hao

Hao has little prep feats but what he can do is apply cure defection & soul manipulation defenses to his team.

X-Man

Simply will move my team to planck length for my team turning seconds into days. He also has the ability to stop time but I don’t know if that is allowed.

X-Man will be using the Power Gem this round & unlike all the brutes before him he will consciously tap into it's power amping not only his physical strength but his mental strength also.

#4 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning team 2 due to mordru but you did say 20th C only so, that may make a difference.

I definitely think team 1 has the prep edge.

#5 Edited by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

He'll start by duplicating himself 30 times, duplicates are separate bodies with a hive mind, and this will be uses full to complete every stated task along with the help of super speed.

Somehow i don't see 30 Captain Atom's being a problem against the millions of recently killed souls that the Ring of life will put under my control. I mean the ring even grants the wearer control over the most powerful spirit there is ( Spectre) so none of the deceased Qwardian's are going to be much of a problem. Let's Also remember who some of those Qwardian's are ( Ultraman, Superwoman, Johnny Quick, power ring) and the fact that Mordru will have drained their vast power. That's not even counting every little part of darkness in the environment being a potential combatant for my team.

His first mission will be to head off into the time stream for more info on opponents and battle field. In the time stream no time passes allowing one to see the past, present, & future like an ocean with all events happening simultaneously. He will see the current outcome of the battle(good or bad) before it even starts sharing this info with his team. This will require no more than 5 duplicates.

The rest of his prep will be to aid his teammate.

Problems here are two fold.

1. Time is fluid. If you look at the future during prep and that's it, anything my team changes during the match from what originally happened changes the outcome, because the future isn't fixed. Cause and effect mean that a change to what you do no, changes what happens in ten minutes.. I could go on about how this could mean that whatever plans you make

2. Three of my five team members can toy with time to as much or a greater degree than anyone on your team. Plus two have a simple way of remaining connected to the future throughout the battle. Meaning they can constantly

Mordru as a Lord of Chaos can easily play with time. It's something his 20th Century self doesn't do so often because his arrogance doesn't see the need, so in character he wont. His 30th cent self readily plucked what he needed from any time period in a weakened and contained state.

Ultra is a time traveler having made time machines, gone up against Rip Hunter and fought in varying time lines. Additionally he's also shown to have telepathically communicated to himself in other time periods. He could simply link himself to a future version of himself and know exactly what happened as soon as you think of the change and alter his teams reactions.

Then we have Ian Karkull who absorbs shadows, souls and time. The result of this was that In All Star Squardron he knew what was going to happen for decades to come and planned the assassination of the next 10 US Presidents ( all but 1 stopped by the JSA)

Doom will enlist the help of teammates in return he will supply them tech upgrades, magic defense & healing.

First off Doom always has his syphoning tech hidden in his gauntlets and it has work on telepaths/telekinetic(Cable,Strife,& X-Man) magic users (hell lords & Odin force), energy manipulators(captain universe Galactus) & (multiversal) reality wrappers(Franklin Richards, Scarlet Witch, & PR Beyonder).

Captain Atom & Hao have been shown to give normal humans powers so working together Doom he can acquire their powers to the same degree. Also working together X-Man and Cable will supply Doom telepathic & telekinesis via tech.

After this encounter he will work on two sides of prep.

Tech

He'll start by re-creating and perfecting the tech he has created or used via superspeed, matter, energy manipulation and for good measure time manipulation. Perfecting them to face off against Thor & Hulk level opponents.

Tech will include:

  • All forms time manipulation

  • Various rays (disintegration, time, reducing etc.)

  • Syphoning tech

  • Teleportation devices.

  • Various nano machines/micro computer.

  • Various shields

  • Invisibility

  • Various guns

  • PSI blocker

  • Holograms

  • Various nullifiers

  • Fear to Rage Converter

  • Adamantium (Doom knows the formula for this)

  • Doombots (200)

Just want to remind you of one thing.

You have access during that prep to only the things either in this universe or the things could normally be expected to carry. You will have to validate how you are aware of or found out what you plan to use from this universe. Nothing you acquired during the prep of the last round will be with you nor will anything that you took from combatants ( Just want to put this out there this disadvantages me more than anyone else).

Ultra is every bit the prep master Doom is. Doom has acquired the power of Beyonder, Ultra the power of a 5th Dimensional Imp/Djinn. Ultra has acquired artifacts like the power stone and hammer of Thor that once he drained or imbued their power allowed him to simultaneously throw around Alan Scot and Superman while fighting a few other heroes. He's altered the cosmic balance so that every hero on his planet simply ceased to exist ever. He too has build time machines, death ray's force fields, robots, teleporters, etc etc. many of these devices he built with 1940's technology. With today's he could do a lot more. he has also genetically altered beings to give them great power. he did this to make his ape body as powerful as Superman, give Cyclotron the nuclear power and molecular manipulation ( basically a version of what Atom does), Give the first Amazigman his power of molecular alteration ( alter his own molecular structure), give Deathbolt his electric power. For crying out load he perfected the brain transplant in 1940, and has transplanted his own powerful brain into dozens of bodies over the decades.

Even with all that I haven't said that Ultra creates all that he has because he doesn't have his resources. He has to find where they are in this universe. Get familiar with the tech available. Then try and create what he can from it. I also have Brainwave and Ian Karkull who are also brilliant scientific genius. Even if Doom has an advantage over Ultra in the brains dept he doesn't have one that would be greater than all three combined. Plus I have a slight advantage in that two of my genius' are bot incredibly powerful Telepaths. Now you also have a TP in X-man but my two is greater than 1. So on the one hand I can probably find the labs etc of Qwardian weaponers faster than you. Especially since most of the minds to use to do this are going to be destroyed by my prep and in a way that will mean a third member of mine (Ian) can gain their knowledge directly from their souls. plus as they can get direct knowledge from the minds of those who worked with them be able to adapt the tech faster.

Somehow I think my three genius' are going to come up with more and greater weapons working with unfamiliar tech in an unfamiliar environment and without their usual resources.

Then combine this tech into his armor, some into Doombots, & most into suits for my team (including the 30 Captain Atoms)

If you don’t believe Doom can build these machines with superspeed, matter, energy manipulation & time manipulation. He has 25 Captain Atoms & Cable both with technopathy & matter manipulation.

Except I have all the same capability. Superspeed is hardly a problem to those who can play with time. While 20th Century Mordru hasn't pulled things from other time periods before like his latter self he has used time manip to react to Jay Garrick and others. he also matter manipulates as for energy manip almost everyone on my team but Psycho Pirate has done that.

Magic

He will then amp himself, his inventions & allies with magic as he has done before providing magical protection & magical amped attacks.

HAHA, this ones a joke right. I have two mystics one of whom is more powerful by far than Doom at his best and courtesy of his prep is already amped to amazing levels, the other one amped as well. Both Mordru and Karkull have defeated Dr fate, in the case of Karkull the "Classic" Fate at that. Doom has power draining equipment but Mordru's whole existence has been about power draining. to become as powerful as he does in the 30th Century he drained all the magic of an entire universe. He also in that era drained Infinite man ( think Eternity)

Battle

When the battle starts Ian will transform a few of your team into shadows that he will then have complete control of, plus be wielding all the shadow present o the planet as additional combatants for my side. Mordru will have the millions of souls he controls courtesy of the ring of life also attack you. This will mean you will be out numbers millions to a few while most of my team area actually not even engaging you. Ultra BW and Ian will be still working away on a means of anti-matter/matter explosion and shielding that will wipe out your entire team and leave mine able to withstand it with the shield working in conjunction with their own power. I can hold most of my team out of the battle constantly adjusting for the changes to the future that Ian and Ultra will have immediate knowledge of as they occur. For every change you make to counter the future you saw we'll have made a change the instant you thought of it.

Aside from all this how exactly will you finish my team. I mean Mordru can recreate himself at will or merest thought. Ian Karkull has brought himslef back into existence aver decades after the combined power of the Spectre, Alan Scot and Starman destroyed him and it took that much power to do this after he was weakened in a battle with Dr fate. Ultra has survived dozens of destructions by simply transporting his brain into another body he has prepared ( and since he went with the Ape body he has dozens on standby at any time). Plus they possess the ring of life that can completly and instantly heal from fatal injuries from a touch.

#6 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

I'll post my rebuttal & some of the scans I promised.

Somehow i don't see 30 Captain Atom's being a problem against the millions of recently killed souls that the Ring of life will put under my control. I mean the ring even grants the wearer control over the most powerful spirit there is ( Spectre) so none of the deceased Qwardian's are going to be much of a problem. Let's Also remember who some of those Qwardian's are ( Ultraman, Superwoman, Johnny Quick, power ring) and the fact that Mordru will have drained their vast power. That's not even counting every little part of darkness in the environment being a potential combatant for my team.

Great! Believing 30 Captain Atoms is my biggest threat would make me question if you've read my prep. While you have superior numbers it would be an over exaggeration to say my team is overwhelmed.

Here is some scans of Captain Atom's abilities.

Duplication

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2538853-captain_atom_duplicates_1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2538855-captain_atom_duplicates_2.jpg

Super Speed

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2538824-captain_atom_super_speed_1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2538829-captain_atom_super_speed_2.jpg

Technopathy

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2714100-2656386-captainatom_2_thegroup_005.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2714101-2656388-captainatom_2_thegroup_010.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2576821-captain_atom_strategy.jpg

Teleportation & Invisibility

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2538870-captain_atom_teleportation.jpg

Matter Manipulation/Transmutation

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2509618-captain_atom_feat_1.jpg

Problems here are two fold.

1. Time is fluid. If you look at the future during prep and that's it, anything my team changes during the match from what originally happened changes the outcome, because the future isn't fixed. Cause and effect mean that a change to what you do no, changes what happens in ten minutes.. I could go on about how this could mean that whatever plans you make

2. Three of my five team members can toy with time to as much or a greater degree than anyone on your team. Plus two have a simple way of remaining connected to the future throughout the battle. Meaning they can constantly

Mordru as a Lord of Chaos can easily play with time. It's something his 20th Century self doesn't do so often because his arrogance doesn't see the need, so in character he wont. His 30th cent self readily plucked what he needed from any time period in a weakened and contained state.

Ultra is a time traveler having made time machines, gone up against Rip Hunter and fought in varying time lines. Additionally he's also shown to have telepathically communicated to himself in other time periods. He could simply link himself to a future version of himself and know exactly what happened as soon as you think of the change and alter his teams reactions.

Then we have Ian Karkull who absorbs shadows, souls and time. The result of this was that In All Star Squardron he knew what was going to happen for decades to come and planned the assassination of the next 10 US Presidents ( all but 1 stopped by the JSA)

What you are not under standing is this isn't my battle strategy it's prep, only one the side of the coin.

Captain Atom, X-Man, & Doom can constantly watch the future. But is would be irrelevant for all of them to do this during prep side tracking them form more crucial matters.

I agree both team will abuse time manipulation, its just my team has the necessary means to overpower yours.

Just want to remind you of one thing.

You have access during that prep to only the things either in this universe or the things could normally be expected to carry. You will have to validate how you are aware of or found out what you plan to use from this universe. Nothing you acquired during the prep of the last round will be with you nor will anything that you took from combatants ( Just want to put this out there this disadvantages me more than anyone else).

Ultra is every bit the prep master Doom is. Doom has acquired the power of Beyonder, Ultra the power of a 5th Dimensional Imp/Djinn. Ultra has acquired artifacts like the power stone and hammer of Thor that once he drained or imbued their power allowed him to simultaneously throw around Alan Scot and Superman while fighting a few other heroes. He's altered the cosmic balance so that every hero on his planet simply ceased to exist ever. He too has build time machines, death ray's force fields, robots, teleporters, etc etc. many of these devices he built with 1940's technology. With today's he could do a lot more. he has also genetically altered beings to give them great power. he did this to make his ape body as powerful as Superman, give Cyclotron the nuclear power and molecular manipulation ( basically a version of what Atom does), Give the first Amazigman his power of molecular alteration ( alter his own molecular structure), give Deathbolt his electric power. For crying out load he perfected the brain transplant in 1940, and has transplanted his own powerful brain into dozens of bodies over the decades.

Even with all that I haven't said that Ultra creates all that he has because he doesn't have his resources. He has to find where they are in this universe. Get familiar with the tech available. Then try and create what he can from it. I also have Brainwave and Ian Karkull who are also brilliant scientific genius. Even if Doom has an advantage over Ultra in the brains dept he doesn't have one that would be greater than all three combined. Plus I have a slight advantage in that two of my genius' are bot incredibly powerful Telepaths. Now you also have a TP in X-man but my two is greater than 1. So on the one hand I can probably find the labs etc of Qwardian weaponers faster than you. Especially since most of the minds to use to do this are going to be destroyed by my prep and in a way that will mean a third member of mine (Ian) can gain their knowledge directly from their souls. plus as they can get direct knowledge from the minds of those who worked with them be able to adapt the tech faster.

Somehow I think my three genius' are going to come up with more and greater weapons working with unfamiliar tech in an unfamiliar environment and without their usual resources.

Yes I understand the rules no teleporting to get equipment. So they will create every thing of the energy & environment around them. Plus they have the Power Gem, which is being considerably undervalued.

No Doom is a Prep god due to the fact his Prep on many occasions allowed him to become a god. Also form where I'm sitting Pre Retcon Beyonder and HOM Scarlet Witch has greater feats than any 5D IMP.

Dooms Power Stealing Feats

Beyonder

.

HOM Scarlet Witch

He does this with magic, tech, & consistency having stole the powers of Silver Surfer, Nightmare etc.

So while your team is scavenging for tech to build Doom has received the powers of my team, made tech upgrades, & has equipped everyone/everything with the power to syphon off all of your teams power by simply standing in their presence standing.

Correction I have three telepaths X-Man, Cable & Doom. So it's 3 against 2 in my favor.

HAHA, this ones a joke right. I have two mystics one of whom is more powerful by far than Doom at his best and courtesy of his prep is already amped to amazing levels, the other one amped as well. Both Mordru and Karkull have defeated Dr fate, in the case of Karkull the "Classic" Fate at that. Doom has power draining equipment but Mordru's whole existence has been about power draining. to become as powerful as he does in the 30th Century he drained all the magic of an entire universe. He also in that era drained Infinite man ( think Eternity)

Yep that's what I was thinking make em laugh. Anywho I don't see why I need to go into detail about magic definitely when I have the advantage of power via Power Gem. The Power Gem allow would have beaten Classic SS Dr Strange. The Power Gem is the power of the cosmos.

(Wouldn't let me edit in scans)

Statements From Thanos

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949401-thanos+quest+1+024.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949417-thanos+quest+2+041.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949732-silver+surfer+44+017.jpg

Adam Warlock only using the Power Gem overpowers Classic SS Dr Strange & deflects his magic

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949504-dr+strange+sorcerer+supreme+36+017.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949505-dr+strange+sorcerer+supreme+36+018.jpg

Here some scans to prove Dr Strange was not simply stating hyperbole.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949413-thanos+quest+1+034.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949414-thanos+quest+1+035.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949415-thanos+quest+1+036.jpg.

So this proves X-Man takes out your army with a thought as X-Man is now able to augment any of his powers to Multi Planet destruction.

#7 Edited by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

Great! Believing 30 Captain Atoms is my biggest threat would make me question if you've read my prep. While you have superior numbers it would be an over exaggeration to say my team is overwhelmed .

Honestly I don't really see any of your team as much of a threat. All but one of my team have soloed the JSA. The membership when Ultra, BW and Ian soloed the JSA included Spectre, Classic Fate, Alan Scot and more. PLUS this was pre COIE versions ( since both lan and BW haven't really existed since). My guy's solo the more powerful SA versions of the most powerful superhero team around ( and let's be clear in sheer power the JSA whoops the JLA) almost every outing. Doom regularly looses to the FF and Avengers.

Mordru soloed the JSA that included Hector Fate, Hourman one million, Starheart Alan, and more. Not to mention he's defeated Shazam in his place of power when ( Rock of Eternity) when Shazam had powered up ready to fight Spectre. He did this after having just escaped the imprisonment within the ROE so was himself weakened. Add to which after Shazam was defeated by him and used much of his power he still gave the Unbound Spectre of DOV a damn good fight. Essentially a weakened Mordru defeated a shazam who was stronger than the one that fought a powered up and blood lusted Spectre with a good showing. He did this without the ring of life. The first time the ring of life was seen was when the almighty gave it to Spectre so that he could defeat a being out of his pay grade. The ring was also used to defeat the Spectre on three occasions I'm aware of. Kulak with possession of the ring of life even though the almighty himslef had set up barriers to prevent him from getting into Earths dimension was able to one shot and control Spectre, One Shot Classic Fate, and from a completely different realm of existence cause mankind to almost kill themselves. His presence alone in a neighboring plane was enough to make mothers kill their children and Brother fight and try to kill brother. Trust me I'm not underestimating the power Gem, I just have a far better boon.

All this is without even playing my ace in the whole. Psycho Pirate can take advantage of the obvious team weaknesses of say faith between the rest of your team and doom. he can make the natural distrust the heroes in the team would have of Doom a 10000 times more, undermine your team's interaction and team work. Make them fight against each other. Make them despise each other and fight amongst themselves. Your team will be so hard pressed fighting themselves, the shadows wielded by Ian, the souls controlled by Mordru to even face my team. My actual team wont even need to get in to the battle until yours is almost defeated.

What you are not under standing is this isn't my battle strategy it's prep, only one the side of the coin.

Captain Atom, X-Man, & Doom can constantly watch the future. But is would be irrelevant for all of them to do this during prep side tracking them form more crucial matters.

Sorry, you stated under the heading Prep and no mention of the battle. So basically we are even in that respect completely. So it favors no one and has zero baring on anything in the battle

Yes I understand the rules no teleporting to get equipment. So they will create every thing of the energy & environment around them. Plus they have the Power Gem, which is being considerably undervalued.

No Doom is a Prep god due to the fact his Prep on many occasions allowed him to become a god. Also form where I'm sitting Pre Retcon Beyonder and HOM Scarlet Witch has greater feats than any 5D IMP.

As i already said not underating it I just have something better. As for Doom being a prep god Ultra has barely 100 appearances to Doom's 2000+ and he has feats to match everything Doom has done. Sorry but consistency seems to be in my favor here. As for the 5th Dimensional Imp not being equal to Beyonder I fail to see why not, both warp reality to suit them. Ultra using this power made himself ruler of everything and the most powerful beings in DC were his play things. Just like Doom he's asurped supreme power. He's soleod teams of heroes that number greater than 60 and have powerhouses far and above those teams Doom has fought and lost to. Ultra has developed brain dampaning devices that make it easier for him to dominate minds (using these he was able to mentally dominate almost all of DC's top end telepaths at once. Combine that with BW's brain device and really all I need several of the one weapon made, if they also come up with a force field and death ray great.

So while your team is scavenging for tech to build Doom has received the powers of my team, made tech upgrades, & has equipped everyone/everything with the power to syphon off all of your teams power by simply standing in their presence standing.

And how exactly is your team building their tech. I mean I can just have Mordru matter manipulate to create anything I need to build anything with as well. We both face the same limitations.

Correction I have three telepaths X-Man, Cable & Doom. So it's 3 against 2 in my favor.

sorry should have been clearer here. I meant TPers in the pay grade of mine. I mean come on BW has mentally commanded the Spectre, Ultra has matched him in TP battle. Plus Ultra has mentally controlled several heroes from another dimension ( including two with TP resistence). he's also mentally dominated MM, Grodd, Hector Hammond ( that was however with a few of them having his brain dampeners)and several others at once. I mean seriously Only X-man is competing with them in TP and even that's a huge push.

Adam Warlock only using the Power Gem overpowers Classic SS Dr Strange

Ahh DUDe that's the IG, it might say the power gem but he ahs the full power of the IG in that scan so really not applicable at all.

#8 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

When the battle starts Ian will transform a few of your team into shadows that he will then have complete control of, plus be wielding all the shadow present o the planet as additional combatants for my side.

Nope Doom's tech protects against possession supernatural or otherwise.

Mordru will have the millions of souls he controls courtesy of the ring of life also attack you. This will mean you will be out numbers millions to a few while most of my team area actually not even engaging you.

X-Man, Captain Atom, Cable, Hao & Doombots disintegrates them & all X-Man could very well solo.

One of Doom's many rays that he will upgraded everyone with.

Ultra BW and Ian will be still working away on a means of anti-matter/matter explosion and shielding that will wipe out your entire team and leave mine able to withstand it with the shield working in conjunction with their own power.

A team that still needs prep time after the fight have started not a very effective team. Doom has already equiped my team with such devices and the proper shields to uses them.

I can hold most of my team out of the battle constantly adjusting for the changes to the future that Ian and Ultra will have immediate knowledge of as they occur. For every change you make to counter the future you saw we'll have made a change the instant you thought of it.

Doom, X-Man & Captain Atom will watch the time stream also. X-Man has 300 different ways of doing so & Captain Atom will always have a duplicate in the time stream.

Aside from all this how exactly will you finish my team. I mean Mordru can recreate himself at will or merest thought. Ian Karkull has brought himslef back into existence aver decades after the combined power of the Spectre, Alan Scot and Starman destroyed him and it took that much power to do this after he was weakened in a battle with Dr fate. Ultra has survived dozens of destructions by simply transporting his brain into another body he has prepared ( and since he went with the Ape body he has dozens on standby at any time). Plus they possess the ring of life that can completely and instantly heal from fatal injuries from a touch.

Well simple my team has the means to drain your team of all their powers & I see no reason why Mordru will be exempt from being drain by over 200 different sources.

The power gem can produce limitless amounts of energy & redirect it no problem.

#9 Posted by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

ARRGH I posted a reply 8 hours ago before I drove interstate to spend Good Friday with my father and it's not here.

Nope Doom's tech protects against possession supernatural or otherwise.

Please show me where exactly in my post I mentioned possession?? I said have control over them after he turns them to shadows. Ian has complete control over all shadows and areas of Darkness.

As a super genius scientist back in the 40's he developed Technology to turn living things into shadows, that's how he became a shadow in the first place. he was stuck as a shadow after Dr Fate destroyed his first machine . With only basic knowledge of Ian Doom wont know how his tech works and wont have a counter no matter how much prep he gets.

X-Man, Captain Atom, Cable, Hao & Doombots disintegrates them & all X-Man could very well solo.

One of Doom's many rays that he will upgraded everyone with.

How exactly does one destroy an eternal soul pray tell. I mean this is their after life. Both Souls and shadows are metaphysical so you disintegrator beam might as well be a tooth pick. I mean I possess one of the few talismans in my boon that can actually affect the dead. For that matter it can animate things that are inanimate. So every rock, twig, or piece of space dust that exists in the area can also be fighting for me. I really never got why all the first ones to pick left two of the most powerful boons available. The Ring gives an ordinary hood the power to defeat the Spectre. It was used by the Spectre to defeat those more powerful than himself. When Kulak had it he one shotted Spectre, Then used Spectre as a pawn then One shotted Classic Fate then used it to almost destroy Earth 2 even though the Almighty ( now called Presence) had set up boundaries that prevented him from even entering that universe. He could destroy a planet from another plane of existence. Imagine what he could have done if he was near.

A team that still needs prep time after the fight have started not a very effective team. Doom has already equiped my team with such devices and the proper shields to uses them.

You say this as if there is any difference between us. You require as much prep to do what you claim Doom can do. Any one of my super Genius can accomplish as much in the same time. I mean for crying out loud once Mordru and Ian alters time rates I have three super genius ( one easily Doom's Equal or very close behind in Ultra) working at equal or greater speed to accomplish as much. Even if you could prove That Doom is better than Ultra he certainly isn't better than all three combined, and three sets of hands working at that speed means I can create at least more than the same amount of stuff in the same time. Added to which even if there was a deficiency in one of the other two's intellect Because two of them are better TPers than anyone on your team they can be brought up to speed instantly. I just fail to see why I need any extension on prep time . We have the same prep time, we have the same resources available to us at the start of the match. Hell if I wanted to go the duplicate route ( which I really don't need) both Ian and Mordru can do that as well. Mordru can do everything Captain Atom can and more with his magic and reality manip on top of his matter and time manip , plus he's older than time itself so understands things far beyond the grasp of anyone on your team. Added to which it has been stated by those like Dr Fate, and Hourman One millions that he will never be destroyed he will exist when everything else ends.

Well simple my team has the means to drain your team of all their powers & I see no reason why Mordru will be exempt from being drain by over 200 different sources.

How exactly are they supposed to achieve this when so far in the battle they haven't even faced one of my team. I've sent the eternal (ergo indestructible) Souls of the planet Qward under the control of the Ring of life, the animated inanimate objects of the planet ( also courtesy of the ring), the pieces of shadow and darkness from the planet and everywhere around it - or the void itself), potentially their own shadows to also fight them. One of the shadows sent carrying Ian's device that changes some of your team to shadows ( which you can't feasibly have a counter for) making them combatants for my team ( would be interesting if the ones turned to shadows were the 30 Captain Atoms wouldn't it).

They are so far up against millions of metaphysical opponents who they have no means of destroying, with some of their own numbers turned to my side or in my control by a means you don't have protection form because non of your team have ever faced it and can't understand it. Yet they are going to get close enough to my team to drain their power??? Unbelievable much ??

Now added to which using either Mordu's magic or a device made by Ultra Psycho pirate ( also from safety) can be altering their emotions to take advantage of the natural mistrust heroes would have of Doom completely undermining your teams effectiveness and voiding most of your prep. Brainwave can also send thousands of his three dimensional brain constructs to fight while safely away from the scene the same way he usually fights the JSA from afar. Thus meaning your now fighting even greater odds and amongst yourself meaning that it's even more unlikely you can get near my team. Ultra having also made robots in the bast can could during his prep have done this to match Doom's Doombots. Since however he is far more accomplished in medical science than the other sciences and has perfected genetic manipulation to the point of making super powered beings, cloning, brain transplants etc. he will far more likely work on a creating an army of super powered soulless beings that can easily be controlled and manipulated by BW or Ian. He could even have Mordru create a few thousand human forms that he then genetically manipulates to be as physically strong as Superman ( as he did hid own ape body), possess nuclear fission power to create energy blasts and brake and remake atoms ( as he gave Cyclotron), as well as the power to alter their own molecular structure ( as he gave Amazingman). Or he could simply telepathically show Mordru how to create them with these ability and how to build their DNA so that this is what they are capable of.

The power gem can produce limitless amounts of energy & redirect it no problem.

AHH NO. The power Gem gives the user great strength and durability ( potentially limitless). It can only give the user vast energy powers if mastered. No one on your team has ever held the gem so they wont have "mastery" and I SERIOUSLY doubt they will achieve it in 5 hours unless that is all you do in your prep. Suddenly things are looking pretty grim for you since most of your plan is void.

#10 Posted by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Edited by Backflip (2266 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Excuse the wait if at all possible had business to attend to. Plus everytime I trying to sit down, upload scans, and write this up something comes up.

Any who jumping to my rebuttal & a battle strategy (should have done one from the start just add this excuse to the list). I’m perfectly fine if you disregard any of my points before but they will undoubtedly be restated.

Starting off with the comment comicvine did not alert me to(note I skipped over character play up don’t find it relevant to the debate).

All this is without even playing my ace in the whole. Psycho Pirate can take advantage of the obvious team weaknesses of say faith between the rest of your team and doom. he can make the natural distrust the heroes in the team would have of Doom a 10000 times more, undermine your team's interaction and team work. Make them fight against each other. Make them despise each other and fight amongst themselves. Your team will be so hard pressed fighting themselves, the shadows wielded by Ian, the souls controlled by Mordru to even face my team. My actual team wont even need to get in to the battle until yours is almost defeated.

Does Psycho-Pirate use Empathy? Well if he does any psionic power will be ineffective, as all psionic energy used against my team will be instantly absorbed.

Stryfe drains X-Man and Cable simultaneously with them unable to fight back.

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And how exactly is your team building their tech. I mean I can just have Mordru matter manipulate to create anything I need to build anything with as well. We both face the same limitations.

Well I stated in my prep “super speed, matter, energy manipulation & time manipulation” (unlike yourself). Doom can create everything from memory being the one who built it. With telepathic powers of X-Man/Cable & Super Speed perception of Captain Atom there is no way he can't simultaneously access all the blueprints he store in his mind. Also let us not forget his natural intelligence which allows him to borderline surpass Reed Richards in tech.

X-Man's telepathy allows him to transfer Sugar Man’s plans & and months of prep to Forge.

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Time manipulation tech

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Traps Rachel Grey in a hologram loop, stops, controls Nightcrawlers teleport.

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Reducing ray

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Invisibility

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Force field nullification

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This is not half of the things Doom will create.

sorry should have been clearer here. I meant TPers in the pay grade of mine. I mean come on BW has mentally commanded the Spectre, Ultra has matched him in TP battle. Plus Ultra has mentally controlled several heroes from another dimension ( including two with TP resistence). he's also mentally dominated MM, Grodd, Hector Hammond ( that was however with a few of them having his brain dampeners)and several others at once. I mean seriously Only X-man is competing with them in TP and even that's a huge push.

Wouldn't change anything

Doom has all of X-Man & Cables capabilities with telepathy due to prep (yes I’ll also give more insight on how this is at all possible in the slightest).

Cable has planet level telepathy although for a good cause (the same reason this story arc calls him savior). Cable reads everyone’s mind simultaneously even getting pass Shields PSI blocker (infamous tech in Marvel), Emma with cerebro couldn't match him, connected minds Silver Surfer & the world while he was dying.

X-Man has the Power Gem, Thor w/the Power Gem has completely owned Moon Dragon with the Mind Gem while playing helpless & dumb. This is a feat due to the location the psychic plane a place where the Mind Gem should reign supreme. (scans below)

Adding to all of this all psionic energy will be absorbed no matter if it’s used against my team or simply standing in their presence. No questions asked.

Ahh DUDe that's the IG, it might say the power gem but he ahs the full power of the IG in that scan so really not applicable at all.

You cannot deny on panel evidence, clearly stated by Dr Strange “The Power Gem--repository of pure might which can literally almost anything. Against it, none of my valued tail could stand”. Dr Strange goes on to say “Warlock has still not used his sixth and final weapon--”. Seems to me Adam Warlock was ONLY using the Power Gem, beating showing superiority to Dr Strange. So what proof do you have that contradicts this?

In case you missed it Thanos believes it the other way around. FYI this is Thanos before the infinity gauntlet saga.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2949417-thanos+quest+2+041.jpg

Plus that’s not the last time Power Gem has proven to be above Classic SS Dr Strange. Thor with no experience at all using the Power Gem, took down Adam Warlock & Dr Strange prepped with the Soul Gem, warped reality & matched Odin for strength.

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.

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.

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Does none of this seem odd to you?

Please show me where exactly in my post I mentioned possession?? I said have control over them after he turns them to shadows. Ian has complete control over all shadows and areas of Darkness.

As a super genius scientist back in the 40's he developed Technology to turn living things into shadows, that's how he became a shadow in the first place. he was stuck as a shadow after Dr Fate destroyed his first machine . With only basic knowledge of Ian Doom wont know how his tech works and wont have a counter no matter how much prep he gets.

You have not but I understood it as such but now I understand that is not to be the case.

Doom in all likelihood would find out how Ian's tech works, due to Captain Atom’s power set. Doom can now dismantle the machines atom by atom, until he understands it & remake it in an instant. Another reason all tech needs a power source & that alone him to at least dismantle it. But this is not a point I need to make.

How exactly does one destroy an eternal soul pray tell. I mean this is their after life. Both Souls and shadows are metaphysical so you disintegrator beam might as well be a tooth pick. I mean I possess one of the few talismans in my boon that can actually affect the dead. For that matter it can animate things that are inanimate. So every rock, twig, or piece of space dust that exists in the area can also be fighting for me. I really never got why all the first ones to pick left two of the most powerful boons available. The Ring gives an ordinary hood the power to defeat the Spectre. It was used by the Spectre to defeat those more powerful than himself. When Kulak had it he one shotted Spectre, Then used Spectre as a pawn then One shotted Classic Fate then used it to almost destroy Earth 2 even though the Almighty ( now called Presence) had set up boundaries that prevented him from even entering that universe. He could destroy a planet from another plane of existence. Imagine what he could have done if he was near.

My battle strategy below but to answer your question... With another Immortal.

Hao is a shaman and as a shaman he has levels of control over spirits (living or dead), being over 1000 years old he has mastered every technique in his universe. The most prominent ability is to reincarnate his soul at will to another body. This allowed him to live for hundreds of years by moving from body to body. At one point Hao waited 500 years deciding to be reborn as child of a descendant. During that time as a kid with no effort at all kills a navy fleet then revives them from ashes.

Revives Soldiers

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As Shaman King he has complete control of spirits in his universe (in his universe everything has a soul) & over who lives and who dies literally no longer needing a body. Hoa is now effectively immortal willing himself inexistence & draw his power form what is known as the Great Spirit being regarded as the spirit of the universe and has been stated to have been created at the point of the big bang. Hoa has enough power to absorb hundreds of thousands souls with a thought, return those souls to earth in bodies he created, create a miniature sun the holds all the power of our sun with the added effect to burn souls from existence, and miniature black holes that drawn in endless amount of souls crushing them out of existence. I truly don’t see how you team can defeat him easily. The five main characters of the sires used elemental spirits different manifestations of the universe & drawing upon his power stalemated him, and talked him out of destroying earth.

Hao’s has a self-limitation only using the Great Spirit within his realm of knowledge not to its full potential.

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In this universe if your soul gets destroyed your existence is revoked.

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Summons the power of the sun. (last scan you can see the scale of the miniature sun)

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Using it to fight

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How exactly are they supposed to achieve this when so far in the battle they haven't even faced one of my team. I've sent the eternal (ergo indestructible) Souls of the planet Qward under the control of the Ring of life, the animated inanimate objects of the planet ( also courtesy of the ring), the pieces of shadow and darkness from the planet and everywhere around it - or the void itself), potentially their own shadows to also fight them. One of the shadows sent carrying Ian's device that changes some of your team to shadows ( which you can't feasibly have a counter for) making them combatants for my team ( would be interesting if the ones turned to shadows were the 30 Captain Atoms wouldn't it).

Draining your team would not be hard if you think ridiculous amounts of fodder would stop my team. All covered below.

Mind you Captain Atom is the least threatening on my team. Hao could defeat him then return him to my team.

They are so far up against millions of metaphysical opponents who they have no means of destroying, with some of their own numbers turned to my side or in my control by a means you don't have protection form because non of your team have ever faced it and can't understand it. Yet they are going to get close enough to my team to drain their power??? Unbelievable much ??

Plus I don't find it unbelievable any uses of energy will be instantly absorbed no matter the power source & it doesn't even require to Doom understand of the source.

Dooms tech absorbs & analyzes Captain Universes cosmic blast

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Now added to which using either Mordu's magic or a device made by Ultra Psycho pirate ( also from safety) can be altering their emotions to take advantage of the natural mistrust heroes would have of Doom completely undermining your teams effectiveness and voiding most of your prep.

Magic will be absorbed like all other forms of energy.

I don't see how my team can have any mistrust being telepathically connected & constantly seeing the future. Plus the only one you can seek to turn my team against is Doom obviously (but it would not work). would not void out any of my prep and only taking simple adjustments in strategy

Brainwave can also send thousands of his three dimensional brain constructs to fight while safely away from the scene the same way he usually fights the JSA from afar.Thus meaning your now fighting even greater odds and amongst yourself meaning that it's even more unlikely you can get near my team.

Brain constructs are the equivalent, PSI constructs in Marvel also able to be absorbed something I will not stop stressing.

Ultra having also made robots in the bast can could during his prep have done this to match Doom's Doombots. Since however he is far more accomplished in medical science than the other sciences and has perfected genetic manipulation to the point of making super powered beings, cloning, brain transplants etc. he will far more likely work on a creating an army of super powered soulless beings that can easily be controlled and manipulated by BW or Ian. He could even have Mordru create a few thousand human forms that he then genetically manipulates to be as physically strong as Superman ( as he did hid own ape body), possess nuclear fission power to create energy blasts and brake and remake atoms ( as he gave Cyclotron), as well as the power to alter their own molecular structure ( as he gave Amazingman). Or he could simply telepathically show Mordru how to create them with these ability and how to build their DNA so that this is what they are capable of.

I address this in my battle strategy.

AHH NO. The power Gem gives the user great strength and durability ( potentially limitless). It can only give the user vast energy powers if mastered. No one on your team has ever held the gem so they wont have "mastery" and I SERIOUSLY doubt they will achieve it in 5 hours unless that is all you do in your prep. Suddenly things are looking pretty grim for you since most of your plan is void

I have clearly state that my team will be operating at Planck length in prep. To physicists this what is Planck length is to Comics Planck length is stepping out of time. So it would not be remotely outlandish to say Doom recreates everything he ever made, gives it to all of my team/Doombots, make 200 Doombots (50 trillion if he wanted to) with Silver Surfer level power & adamantium bodies (fyi Doom made an adamantium chainsaw to perform surgery on Hulk), masters his new power sets & X-Man masters the Power Gem with his psychometry.

Planck length

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X-Man Psychometry learns the entire events of Marvel earth he has missed.

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Surfer level Doombots and recreates the power cosmic.

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Psychometry

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Battle Strategy

Hao opens with a Solar Flare setting the planet ablaze with the suns heat, then adds the Spirit of Fire(SOF is the concept of fire) to the flames making them inextinguishable for anyone but himself & burning out any soul without his protection. Then proceed to absorb Ultra Humanite, and Ian Karkull souls, adding their knowledge, plans, & powers to his. In addition to their powers their tech & minions will also be under his control, allowing Doom & Cable to assimilate their tech easily. Hao will then be placed by X-Man at Planck length where he may heal and revive teammates accordingly without having to engage in physical battle.

Captain Atom will send 10 duplicates into the time stream watching every point in time that encompasses the battle & feeding info constantly to my team.

X-Man & 10 Captain Atoms will teleport to Mordru engaging him in a contest of power, reflecting & draining him of magic, over powering him, & strip him of the ring of life. To ensure this X-Man will have augmented his visions of the future with the Power Gem, countering Mordru on every front.

Doom, Cable, 10 Captain Atoms & 200 Doombots will go after Psycho-Pirate & Brain Wave. Brain Wave will produce mass numbers of constructs for protection, which will empower my team, and quicken his defeat. Psycho-Pirate can do all he can to manipulate my team but does he have a way of fighting Silver Surfer Level Doombots?

#13 Posted by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Does Psycho-Pirate use Empathy? Well if he does any psionic power will be ineffective, as all psionic energy used against my team will be instantly absorbed.

Psycho Pirate wears a magical mask that allows him to control emotions. It does also act in an emotionally vampiric way feeding off emotions. However in DC empathy is shown in fact to NOT be Psionics as used in your scans. Both Psycho pirate and Raven have explained this many times. So the scans you showed are in fact meaningless.

Well I stated in my prep “super speed, matter, energy manipulation & time manipulation” (unlike yourself).

What do you call this

Three of my five team members can toy with time to as much or a greater degree than anyone on your team.

That was one of my statements, in reply to your first post. I went on to explain how Ian's shadow absorbs time, Mordru has often played with time, and Ultra has built time machines and devices that match Dooms. How can there be any difference in what we can achieve with prep when we have the same resources and the same abilities. If anything Mordru and Ian's are to a greater level ( two to Captain Atoms one).

Doom can create everything from memory being the one who built it. With telepathic powers of X-Man/Cable & Super Speed perception of Captain Atom there is no way he can't simultaneously access all the blueprints he store in his mind. Also let us not forget his natural intelligence which allows him to borderline surpass Reed Richards in tech.

How is this in any way different for Ultra, BW or Ian to recreate what they created.

Ultra who in less than 5% of the appearances Doom has had and has created the same level of tech as well, so technically in greater quantity per appearance. he has made robots that fought superman, death rays that could level a city, time machines and telelporters, dimensional travel devices, who has granted normal humans powers like those of Firestorm, Absorbing man, Electro, and Wonderman ( speaking in Marvel terms so you get the gist) by genetic manipulation, Force fields that could take the multiple attacks of the the entire JSA, Anti gravity generators that could lift a city, shrink rays, devices that allowed him control over magma and volcanic activity, super electric dynamo ray ( that also put Sups down if only briefly), energy absorption devices that like Doom sapped power of others, brain dampaners that override brain power, devices that tapped magical energy and used it for science, Disintegration rays that destroyed Ocean liners from across country ( as early as 1940), Brain he too has taken the power of reality warpers, and much more. Not to mention he has played with the cosmic balance and altered reality by planning it without gaining any power, just with devices.

BW has made force barriers that return any force projected at it back increased twice over, brain drain apparatus that taps mental energy even from the stratosphere and far side of the planet, Space ships, Gravity displacement beams that upset the earth orbit around the sun, teleporter devices that removed whole cities from the surface of the planet to blackmail America to his will, various other weapons and death rays, mental augment devices that early on enhanced his mental power until it grew.

Ian has made death rays, force fields, devices that transform man into phantoms or shadows, devices that allow intangibility/ phasing, teleporters, and more. Plus he absorbs time and as such has knowledge of things not even done or invented yet.

Add to the fact that both Ultra and BW can gain even more knowledge from Mordru who has knowledge long forgotten since he existed before this universe.

Seriously I have three super genius' who between them have access to more tech they have built and all would be operating at the same speed, with a being just as capable of manufacturing whatever they need through matter manipulation in Mordru ( plus he also has a degree of reality manipulation). Not to mention that with Ian able to make a few dozen shadow selves he could be working on multiple devices at once, as could BW with his brain constructs.

I just don't see how anything Doom can give you in prep can in any way give you any advantage what so ever. I can at the very least ( and that's not likely) do as much, but am far more likely to do much more.

This is not half of the things Doom will create.

Seriously, it would need to be about 1/10000th to even come close to matching what Ultra alone has done in his meager one hundred and something appearances Imagine what he would have achieved in the over 2000 Doom has had). So with BW and Ian it's going to fall well short.

Wouldn't change anything Doom has all of X-Man & Cables capabilities with telepathy due to prep (yes I’ll also give more insight on how this is at all possible in the slightest). Cable has planet level telepathy although for a good cause (the same reason this story arc calls him savior). Cable reads everyone’s mind simultaneously even getting pass Shields PSI blocker (infamous tech in Marvel), Emma with cerebro couldn't match him, connected minds Silver Surfer & the world while he was dying.

It's just such a shame that none of that comes close to BW or Ultra. Planetary level?? that's the best you have?

All these guy's are planetary level TPers

and yet Ultra owned them all at once and did so while controlling these

Brainwave soloed telepathically the Gold and Silver age JSA. This includes Classic Fate, E-2 Wonder Woman ( who had TP resistance/immunity), Alan Scot, Spectre, and many more. Before you say that pre COIE feats aren't valid, BW hasn't got any after COIE so sorry to say there only is a GA/SA version because he died in the early issues of Infinity Inc back in 83 ( two years before COIE). He could telepathically make the whole world many disasters occurred all over the planet at once. His TP was so intense that many died from his imaginary disasters. Telepathically commands teeh Spectre while also placing commands in the mind of the JSA.

If you seriously think that the mental powers on your team match someone who can telekinetically throw around a silver age Kryptonian, brain zap Classic Fate, or telepathically command both him and Spectre. Who can using his mind pull dozens of heroes from Earth into the dimension of Limbo despite having NO POWER of teleportation. and can make the entire populous of a planet believe that disasters are threatening entire regions enough that thousands are dying from fear. than you've GREATLY overestimated the mental powers on your team.

That's not even a contest.

X-Man has the Power Gem, Thor w/the Power Gem has completely owned Moon Dragon with the Mind Gem while playing helpless & dumb. This is a feat due to the location the psychic plane a place where the Mind Gem should reign supreme. (scans below)

Adding to all of this all psionic energy will be absorbed no matter if it’s used against my team or simply standing in their presence. No questions asked.

You are so right her, it will be absorbed by Mordru wearing the ring of Life. he on his own is a massive energy absorber add the nigh omnipotent power of the Ring of life and this is a lock.

You cannot deny on panel evidence, clearly stated by Dr Strange “The Power Gem--repository of pure might which can literally almost anything. Against it, none of my valued tail could stand”. Dr Strange goes on to say “Warlock has still not used his sixth and final weapon--”. Seems to me Adam Warlock was ONLY using the Power Gem, beating showing superiority to Dr Strange. So what proof do you have that contradicts this?

Your kidding right? Your "on panel evidence" is of the Power gem in the IG with the rest of the gems. Everyone knows that they enhance each other and the scan you've kindly supplied of Thanos stating so saves me the trouble of of finding an issue to produce the scans to do so.

The Ring of Life is FAR more powerful an artifact than the power gem. The ring was given to the Spectre on a few occasions to battle and defeat those more powerful than him. It allowed an ordinary criminal to own Spectre. It allowed Kulak to own Spectre and Classic fate at once while breaching the barrier between other dimensions and earth even though the Almighty ( Presence) himself had blocked it to him. It also allowed him to control Spectre from a far of dimension as his pawn on earth while he stomped Classic Fate and caste a spell that spread hate all over the earth making mother kill child and brother kill brother. Even if Psycho pirate fails to affect your team with the ring of life in the hands of Mordru none of your team can withstand it's power.

Seriously whatever power you think Hao is going to bring over spirits isn't going to be enough to contend with the power of the ring of life. The power gem unfortunately in this instance just doesn't have enough power to do the job. All the power Kulak possessed in this tale was from the ring and he was beyond universal level.

#14 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Psycho Pirate wears a magical mask that allows him to control emotions. It does also act in an emotionally vampiric way feeding off emotions. However in DC empathy is shown in fact to NOT be Psionics as used in your scans. Both Psycho pirate and Raven have explained this many times. So the scans you showed are in fact meaningless

Point still stands (empathy is empathy), it gets absorbs the same & Doom has already beat magic based empathy with tech.

Nightmare (Hell Lord)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964161-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+2+023.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964166-doctor+voodool+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+3+08.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964166-doctor+voodool+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+3+08.jpg

Warps Marvel Earth to mirror his ream & controls every Marvel Mage

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964171-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+3+021.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964163-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+4+022.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964164-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+4+023.jpg

But can’t touch Doom.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964173-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+4+015.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964174-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+4+016.jpg

Not only that Doom Absorbs him.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124715/2964165-doctor+voodoo+-+avenger+of+the+supernatural+5+015.jpg

That was one of my statements, in reply to your first post. I went on to explain how Ian's shadow absorbs time, Mordru has often played with time, and Ultra has built time machines and devices that match Dooms. How can there be any difference in what we can achieve with prep when we have the same resources and the same abilities. If anything Mordru and Ian's are to a greater level ( two to Captain Atoms one).

You specially stated your team to uses tech available in the area, only presenting this as a counter to my prep.

Also Captain Atom has the least amount of feats in (well everything) time manipulation Cable, Doom, & X-Man makes this possible for my team. Lording over Captain Atom seems a little unfair (sarcasm)

How is this in any way different for Ultra, BW or Ian to recreate what they created.

Ultra who in less than 5% of the appearances Doom has had and has created the same level of tech as well, so technically in greater quantity per appearance. he has made robots that fought superman, death rays that could level a city, time machines and telelporters, dimensional travel devices, who has granted normal humans powers like those of Firestorm, Absorbing man, Electro, and Wonderman ( speaking in Marvel terms so you get the gist) by genetic manipulation, Force fields that could take the multiple attacks of the the entire JSA, Anti gravity generators that could lift a city, shrink rays, devices that allowed him control over magma and volcanic activity, super electric dynamo ray ( that also put Sups down if only briefly), energy absorption devices that like Doom sapped power of others, brain dampaners that override brain power, devices that tapped magical energy and used it for science, Disintegration rays that destroyed Ocean liners from across country ( as early as 1940), Brain he too has taken the power of reality warpers, and much more. Not to mention he has played with the cosmic balance and altered reality by planning it without gaining any power, just with devices.

BW has made force barriers that return any force projected at it back increased twice over, brain drain apparatus that taps mental energy even from the stratosphere and far side of the planet, Space ships, Gravity displacement beams that upset the earth orbit around the sun, teleporter devices that removed whole cities from the surface of the planet to blackmail America to his will, various other weapons and death rays, mental augment devices that early on enhanced his mental power until it grew.

Ian has made death rays, force fields, devices that transform man into phantoms or shadows, devices that allow intangibility/ phasing, teleporters, and more. Plus he absorbs time and as such has knowledge of things not even done or invented yet.

Add to the fact that both Ultra and BW can gain even more knowledge from Mordru who has knowledge long forgotten since he existed before this universe.

Seriously I have three super genius' who between them have access to more tech they have built and all would be operating at the same speed, with a being just as capable of manufacturing whatever they need through matter manipulation in Mordru ( plus he also has a degree of reality manipulation). Not to mention that with Ian able to make a few dozen shadow selves he could be working on multiple devices at once, as could BW with his brain constructs.

I just don't see how anything Doom can give you in prep can in any way give you any advantage what so ever. I can at the very least ( and that's not likely) do as much, but am far more likely to do much more.

What is with the prep vs prep? You should list this in your battle strategy, it would really help on understanding how they use it…just saiyan.

Actually not listing any of this in your battle strategy,or stating how they use it in battle makes this irrelevant.

It's just such a shame that none of that comes close to BW or Ultra. Planetary level?? that's the best you have?

All these guy's are planetary level TPers

and yet Ultra owned them all at once and did so while controlling these

Brainwave soloed telepathically the Gold and Silver age JSA. This includes Classic Fate, E-2 Wonder Woman ( who had TP resistance/immunity), Alan Scot, Spectre, and many more. Before you say that pre COIE feats aren't valid, BW hasn't got any after COIE so sorry to say there only is a GA/SA version because he died in the early issues of Infinity Inc back in 83 ( two years before COIE). He could telepathically make the whole world many disasters occurred all over the planet at once. His TP was so intense that many died from his imaginary disasters. Telepathically commands teeh Spectre while also placing commands in the mind of the JSA.

If you seriously think that the mental powers on your team match someone who can telekinetically throw around a silver age Kryptonian, brain zap Classic Fate, or telepathically command both him and Spectre. Who can using his mind pull dozens of heroes from Earth into the dimension of Limbo despite having NO POWER of teleportation. and can make the entire populous of a planet believe that disasters are threatening entire regions enough that thousands are dying from fear. than you've GREATLY overestimated the mental powers on your team.

That's not even a contest.

First off Doom’s tech is the reason why this is not even up for debate. His tech has kept him mentally cloaked form Green Phoenix Rachel (Excalibur) , Dark Phoenix Jean(X-Men & Dr Doom Annual), allowed him to usurp HOM Scarlet Witch(above scans), & he created a device that would have drained Onslaught(Onslaught marvel Universe) .

If you think your team is more powerful than Dark Phoenix and or can’t be drained then you've GREATLY overestimated the powers on your team.

You are so right her, it will be absorbed by Mordru wearing the ring of Life. he on his own is a massive energy absorber add the nigh omnipotent power of the Ring of life and this is a lock.

Yes I’m right… Last time I checked Doom’s tech allowed him to drain Nigh Omnipotent Characters with Nigh Omnipotent power. If your team wants test that, multiply it by 200 & add the Power Gem.

Your kidding right? Your "on panel evidence" is of the Power gem in the IG with the rest of the gems. Everyone knows that they enhance each other and the scan you've kindly supplied of Thanos stating so saves me the trouble of of finding an issue to produce the scans to do so.

So your rebuttal is everyone knows & concludes with miss reading scans?

The Power Gem draws power from the ends of Infinity, IIRC Infinity is a multiverse abstract & a clear indication of Power Gem’s power source alone. Classic Infinity Gantlet was able to create a blast Gantlet that reached the Beyonder’s realm, somewhere located outside of the Marvel Multiverse

So unless you have some contradicting scans we are going to have to agree to disagree.

The Ring of Life is FAR more powerful an artifact than the power gem. The ring was given to the Spectre on a few occasions to battle and defeat those more powerful than him. It allowed an ordinary criminal to own Spectre. It allowed Kulak to own Spectre and Classic fate at once while breaching the barrier between other dimensions and earth even though the Almighty ( Presence) himself had blocked it to him. It also allowed him to control Spectre from a far of dimension as his pawn on earth while he stomped Classic Fate and caste a spell that spread hate all over the earth making mother kill child and brother kill brother. Even if Psycho pirate fails to affect your team with the ring of life in the hands of Mordru none of your team can withstand it's power.

How about they take its power? Clearly not outside possibility, unless this ring has more power than this guy.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28028/671066-beyonder_1.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/104470/2034988-post_mm_vs_b.jpeg

Seriously whatever power you think Hao is going to bring over spirits isn't going to be enough to contend with the power of the ring of life. The power gem unfortunately in this instance just doesn't have enough power to do the job. All the power Kulak possessed in this tale was from the ring and he was beyond universal level.

Hao job is to set the planet on fire, take out Ultra, Ian, fodder (who clearly has no defensive against him), & then lie in wait healing/reviving my team. Fighting with Mordru is not one of them.

Cable, Captain Atom & Doom w/Doombots will have taken out Brain Wave & Psycho-Pirate (I actually think they burn up). Not their job either.

X-Man will be engaging Mordru, with Captain Atom draining him. Yeah that is their job with the power to do such.

Not seeing your team help each other in battle, prevent being drained, and put down any member of my team.

#15 Edited by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

It's not empathy because psycho pirate doesn't feel the emotions of others. His mask feeds on their energy. He has no afinity or connection to anyone's emotions

empathy [ˈɛmpəθɪ]n

1. the power of understanding and imaginatively entering into another person's feelings

Psycho Pirate has NONE of this. So you see the point doesn't stand because it's NOT empathy. Any scans of Doom dealing with Empathy prove nothing.

You specially stated your team to uses tech available in the area, only presenting this as a counter to my prep.

They use the tech that is available to them to build their devices, the same way Doom will have to because it ONE OF THE RULES. the rules for the round say you only bring the tech you could reasonably be expected to carry. Doom also has to build from available tech in the area. YOUR POINT!!! The fact that I have three super genius' one of whom has made more than Doom and done as much ( like take the power of Omnipotent's and reality warpers) with more access to time manipulation, and a greater ability to create more team members who can do the work.

Also how did my "prep counter yours" when I did it first?

I stated that I don't think my team will recreate everything they have before. Unlike you I'm not being unrealistic. Ultra has every bit as much chance of doing everything that Doom can because Ian, Mordru and he ( after he creates a new time machine) can time manipulate. BW and Ian between them can also. BW and Ian can also each make as many duplicates as Atom can to do the work for them. I Don't believe that Doom can create everything you believe he can starting off with absolutely NO RESOURCES. All I'm saying is that if he can then So can Ultra ( especially with TP controlled Quardians by the hundreds), Ian with dozens of shadow selves, BW with Dozens of brain constructs of himself all acting in a changed time frame can accomplish as much if not more than what Doom can in the same time.

What is with the prep vs prep? You should list this in your battle strategy, it would really help on understanding how they use it…just saiyan.

Actually not listing any of this in your battle strategy,or stating how they use it in battle makes this irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant at all.

1. Some of it was listed in my strategy. I never said I was using the rest. I said in my prep that Ultra and BW would create what they need to. especially based on future knowledge of how things go down.

2. Your whole argument for Doom is based on tech he has used that he wont have access to that he has only five hours to make. I'm just showing that if you add up the amount of tech my super genius' have used it actually amounts to more than Doom has.

First off Doom’s tech is the reason why this is not even up for debate. His tech has kept him mentally cloaked form Green Phoenix Rachel (Excalibur) , Dark Phoenix Jean(X-Men & Dr Doom Annual), allowed him to usurp HOM Scarlet Witch(above scans), & he created a device that would have drained Onslaught(Onslaught marvel Universe) .

I already showed ( the scan in my last post) that Ultra's tech allowed him to overcome greater TPers than any you have in your team as well as most of the planet. Also showed how BW's brain drain equipment ( which will be the first thing he creates) can drain mental power from a whole planet and feed it to him. Both these guy's have telepathically fought Spectre and Classic Fate without these devices. I seriously don't see how any tech of Dooms is going to be enough to protect your team from bith their tech ( that is shown to do the opposite) and their vast TP power.

So your rebuttal is everyone knows & concludes with miss reading scans?

The Power Gem draws power from the ends of Infinity, IIRC Infinity is a multiverse abstract & a clear indication of Power Gem’s power source alone. Classic Infinity Gantlet was able to create a blast Gantlet that reached the Beyonder’s realm, somewhere located outside of the Marvel Multiverse

So unless you have some contradicting scans we are going to have to agree to disagree.

ha ha, No my rebuttal was ( and you know it) that you put up a scan of Thanos stating how the gems increased each others power ( actually Strange said the same somewhere else and so have others). His exact "pertinent words" form your own scan

The power gem………..backs the might of the other five gems……………….But it is also the tool that allows the other five to sculpt existence in any manner I choose.

You also put up a scan of the Power gem being used in the IG. Unless you can produce a scan of the Power gem doing this when not part of the IG and acting on it's own under a wielder who is equally not as mastered in it as your team members your scan of the power gem in the IG is completely and utterly useless.

Yes I’m right… Last time I checked Doom’s tech allowed him to drain Nigh Omnipotent Characters with Nigh Omnipotent power. If your team wants test that, multiply it by 200 & add the Power Gem.

So has Mordru (infinite man basically the equalt of LT) and Ultra. Mordru has been able to drain every being of power in their own place of power ( like Shazam ON the Rock of eternity). he did that without the Ring of life which will already give him the power of every life in existence. Seriously Kulak used the ring to break bonds set by the presence. The presence granted the ring to Spectre whenever who ever he faced was more powerful than him. Two of my team have done what Doom has done in so far as power draining and Mordru has done it many times more.

How about they take its power? Clearly not outside possibility, unless this ring has more power than this guy.

Somehow I rate breaking bonds set by the supreme being of the multiverse in DCU somewhat above Beyonder. he's good but far from that good. Now if you had a scan of one of your team draining TOAA I guess we'd have something to talk about.

Hao job is to set the planet on fire, take out Ultra, Ian, fodder (who clearly has no defensive against him), & then lie in wait healing/reviving my team. Fighting with Mordru is not one of them.

WOW he must be really powerful. Ultra had a nuclear explosion go off while he was held by it and survived, Ian survived the combined full powered assault of Spectre, Alan Scot and Starman, BW has used his powerful mind to simply move between dimensions ( Ian can also move through the shadow realm). Must be one hell of a fire.

Cable, Captain Atom & Doom w/Doombots will have taken out Brain Wave & Psycho-Pirate (I actually think they burn up). Not their job either.

Not likely since you completely misunderstand SP powers, plus the mask has brought him back from the dead like 5 times.

X-Man will be engaging Mordru, with Captain Atom draining him. Yeah that is their job with the power to do such.

Problem here is that Mordru will likely be draining Captain Atom, Xman, Doom, and everyone else on your team the instant the battle starts.

Not seeing your team help each other in battle, prevent being drained, and put down any member of my team.

This one is absolutely hilarious. My team is a team (except Mordru anyway). Ultra, BW, PS have worked together dozens of times in the Injustice society and Ian has worked with them once or twice also. Unlike every team in this tourney, my team actually has established team work.

Psycho pirate went up against many more beings of much greater power than your team before the anti monitor enhanced his power in COIE.

Ian has taken down classic Fate, Alan Scot, and more.

Ultra has taken down Superman Alan Scot, the entire JSA, JLA, Infinity Inc, Teen Titans and more, not to mention the entire DC earth.

Brainwave has taken down Classic fate, powergirl, Alan Scot, the assembled JSA.

Mordru has soloed the JSA more than any other even when the team included Fate ( Hector) Hourman one million, Alan and had one of the highest memberships in it's history.

You seriously think I can't put down your team members it's not me underestimating what I'm facing.

As for preventing being drained, seriously?? Every member of my team drains the power of others. Mordru has drained the power of everyone he's faced ( Lords of Order, chaos, the members of the JSA, sorcerers world and in the 30th century all the magic in the universe (that's why I excluded that version). BW drains mental energy, Psycho pirate's mask drains emotional energy. Ian Drains souls and times out of the lives of them, and Ultra just plain drains energy just like Doom.

I realize I haven't shown Doom drain energy ( not sure why) so here is one of them.

Then we have the ring of life that just plain drains force from anything living or dead.

I'm done

#16 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

It's not empathy because psycho pirate doesn't feel the emotions of others. His mask feeds on their energy. He has no afinity or connection to anyone's emotions

empathy [ˈɛmpəθɪ]n

1. the power of understanding and imaginatively entering into another person's feelings

Psycho Pirate has NONE of this. So you see the point doesn't stand because it's NOT empathy. Any scans of Doom dealing with Empathy prove nothing.

Emotional vampirism is a sub power of Empathy (a least in marvel), & the corner stone of how Nightmare feeds. He does not feel fear but he clearly absorbs it. Not seeing how those dots do not connect.

They use the tech that is available to them to build their devices, the same way Doom will have to because it ONE OF THE RULES. the rules for the round say you only bring the tech you could reasonably be expected to carry. Doom also has to build from available tech in the area. YOUR POINT!!! The fact that I have three super genius' one of whom has made more than Doom and done as much ( like take the power of Omnipotent's and reality warpers) with more access to time manipulation, and a greater ability to create more team members who can do the work.

No my point was with matter manipulation Doom can create tech out of the planet alone.

I think it goes quality over quantity. Plus how can you have more access to time manipulation (only takes one) & needing more hands when time has no meaning is redundant? See where I’m going with this, you're competing for the title of best prep i.e. prep vs prep & my battle strategy is up JSYK.

Also draining Omnipotence means that character is not Omni anything; nigh Omnipotence maybe, Multiverse probably, reality defiantly, but Omnipotent nope.

Also how did my "prep counter yours" when I did it first?

See above

I stated that I don't think my team will recreate everything they have before. Unlike you I'm not being unrealistic. Ultra has every bit as much chance of doing everything that Doom can because Ian, Mordru and he ( after he creates a new time machine) can time manipulate. BW and Ian between them can also. BW and Ian can also each make as many duplicates as Atom can to do the work for them. I Don't believe that Doom can create everything you believe he can starting off with absolutely NO RESOURCES. All I'm saying is that if he can then So can Ultra ( especially with TP controlled Quardians by the hundreds), Ian with dozens of shadow selves, BW with Dozens of brain constructs of himself all acting in a changed time frame can accomplish as much if not more than what Doom can in the same time.

Start off with Doom’s most prized tech his armor, he will siphon off & replicate his teammate’s power. Cable, Captain Atom, & X-Man has ranged matter on the atomic scale. Captain Atom literally recreated a person form someone’s memories out of thin air (inorganic to organic matter manipulation). So that clears up resources. With time manipulation the time needed to do all of this is non-existent; anyone can tell you that.

It's not irrelevant at all.

1. Some of it was listed in my strategy. I never said I was using the rest. I said in my prep that Ultra and BW would create what they need to. especially based on future knowledge of how things go down.

2. Your whole argument for Doom is based on tech he has used that he wont have access to that he has only five hours to make. I'm just showing that if you add up the amount of tech my super genius' have used it actually amounts to more than Doom has.

Only fragments yes, but why list it if it will not be equipped? Doom will recreate, prefect, & then combine it into a complete armor for everyone to uses as needed. I have shown Doom recreate the power cosmic & store the power cosmic into a battery built in to Doombots. Do you think there is a cap on what Doom can build with time manipulation; because that is what your argument amounts to.

I already showed ( the scan in my last post) that Ultra's tech allowed him to overcome greater TPers than any you have in your team as well as most of the planet. Also showed how BW's brain drain equipment ( which will be the first thing he creates) can drain mental power from a whole planet and feed it to him. Both these guy's have telepathically fought Spectre and Classic Fate without these devices. I seriously don't see how any tech of Dooms is going to be enough to protect your team from bith their tech ( that is shown to do the opposite) and their vast TP power.

Doom’s tech has cloaked himself with others form the phoenix avatars, with them unable to read his mind or suspect his presence while standing only a few meters form them, & I have shown tech that absorbs energy just by being in contact not needing to drain the source. So not only does Doom possess the best draining tech, but the best mental cloaking tech (nullifying telepathic battles completely).

ha ha, No my rebuttal was ( and you know it) that you put up a scan of Thanos stating how the gems increased each others power ( actually Strange said the same somewhere else and so have others). His exact "pertinent words" form your own scan

The power gem………..backs the might of the other five gems……………….But it is also the tool that allows the other five to sculpt existence in any manner I choose.

You also put up a scan of the Power gem being used in the IG. Unless you can produce a scan of the Power gem doing this when not part of the IG and acting on it's own under a wielder who is equally not as mastered in it as your team members your scan of the power gem in the IG is completely and utterly useless.

So unless you have some contradicting scans we are going to have to agree to disagree.

So has Mordru (infinite man basically the equalt of LT) and Ultra. Mordru has been able to drain every being of power in their own place of power ( like Shazam ON the Rock of eternity). he did that without the Ring of life which will already give him the power of every life in existence. Seriously Kulak used the ring to break bonds set by the presence. The presence granted the ring to Spectre whenever who ever he faced was more powerful than him. Two of my team have done what Doom has done in so far as power draining and Mordru has done it many times more.

Pre-Retcon Beyonder I greater than LT not something you could argue against yet and still Doom stole his powers. I’m just not seeing any one nigh omnipotent take on Beyonder in his heyday. Seems like you have played all your trump cards at this point.

Somehow I rate breaking bonds set by the supreme being of the multiverse in DCU somewhat above Beyonder. he's good but far from that good. Now if you had a scan of one of your team draining TOAA I guess we'd have something to talk about.

One of the biggest discrepancies on the battle forum is, The Presence actually omnipotent? Many characters has thwarted his will including Swamp Thing a one point (losing or not still happened). Seems more like Nigh Omnipotence/most powerfully created character, since no one can contest The One Above All (the writers in marvel) not even plot.

WOW he must be really powerful. Ultra had a nuclear explosion go off while he was held by it and survived, Ian survived the combined full powered assault of Spectre, Alan Scot and Starman, BW has used his powerful mind to simply move between dimensions ( Ian can also move through the shadow realm). Must be one hell of a fire.

I’ll copy paste everything for your viewing pleasure.

As Shaman King he has complete control of spirits in his universe (in his universe everything has a soul) & over who lives and who dies literally no longer needing a body. Hoa is now effectively immortal willing himself inexistence & draw his power form what is known as the Great Spirit being regarded as the spirit of the universe and has been stated to have been created at the point of the big bang. Hoa has enough power to absorb hundreds of thousands souls with a thought, return those souls to earth in bodies he created, create a miniature sun the holds all the power of our sun with the added effect to burn souls from existence, and miniature black holes that drawn in endless amount of souls crushing them out of existence. I truly don’t see how you team can defeat him easily. The five main characters of the sires used elemental spirits different manifestations of the universe & drawing upon his power stalemated him, and talked him out of destroying earth.

Hao’s has a self-limitation only using the Great Spirit within his realm of knowledge not to its full potential.

http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/53190/22.jpg

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http://s01.mpcdn.net/manga/p/917/53190/24.jpg

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In this universe if your soul gets destroyed your existence is revoked.

http://s02.mpcdn.net/manga/p/13016/314907/31.jpg

Summons the power of the sun. (last scan you can see the scale of the miniature sun)

http://s02.mpcdn.net/manga/p/13016/314910/5.jpg

http://s02.mpcdn.net/manga/p/13016/314910/6.jpg

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Using it to fight

http://s02.mpcdn.net/manga/p/13016/314910/7.jpg

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Battle Strategy

Hao opens with a Solar Flare setting the planet ablaze with the suns heat, then adds the Spirit of Fire(SOF is the concept of fire) to the flames making them inextinguishable for anyone but himself & burning out any soul without his protection. Then proceed to absorb Ultra Humanite, and Ian Karkull souls, adding their knowledge, plans, & powers to his. In addition to their powers their tech & minions will also be under his control, allowing Doom & Cable to assimilate their tech easily. Hao will then be placed by X-Man at Planck length where he may heal and revive teammates accordingly without having to engage in physical battle.

And that’s that (Sun>Nuke*infinity).

Not likely since you completely misunderstand SP powers, plus the mask has brought him back from the dead like 5 times.

See above.

Problem here is that Mordru will likely be draining Captain Atom, Xman, Doom, and everyone else on your team the instant the battle starts.

Two problems with this unless you can depower the power gem (the irony it hurts) your team cannot depower my team, & the only character to ever opposes the infinity gems is LT.

This one is absolutely hilarious. My team is a team (except Mordru anyway). Ultra, BW, PS have worked together dozens of times in the Injustice society and Ian has worked with them once or twice also. Unlike every team in this tourney, my team actually has established team work.

Psycho pirate went up against many more beings of much greater power than your team before the anti monitor enhanced his power in COIE.

Ian has taken down classic Fate, Alan Scot, and more.

Ultra has taken down Superman Alan Scot, the entire JSA, JLA, Infinity Inc, Teen Titans and more, not to mention the entire DC earth.

Brainwave has taken down Classic fate, powergirl, Alan Scot, the assembled JSA.

Mordru has soloed the JSA more than any other even when the team included Fate ( Hector) Hourman one million, Alan and had one of the highest memberships in it's history.

You seriously think I can't put down your team members it's not me underestimating what I'm facing.

As for preventing being drained, seriously?? Every member of my team drains the power of others. Mordru has drained the power of everyone he's faced ( Lords of Order, chaos, the members of the JSA, sorcerers world and in the 30th century all the magic in the universe (that's why I excluded that version). BW drains mental energy, Psycho pirate's mask drains emotional energy. Ian Drains souls and times out of the lives of them, and Ultra just plain drains energy just like Doom.

Seem like my next business venture should be to start a comedy club.

Anywho I think we're far past what team has the best team work (had those scans ready ages ago) but what team fares better on the battlefield (already posted those ages ago). There isn't anything more to add except, this was interesting, and form what you can read in my post I had fun.

Votes

#17 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7511 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Edited by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

just a few points since no one has voted. you stated only LT has faced the " infinity gem" - as in plural. the ring of life will make Mordru LT level and he's only facing a single gem not several.

what you discribe of Hao is still less than what the ring gives. One of the times Spectre was given the ring was defeat someone with that level of power. the ring litterally gave Kulak the power to return to existence his legions who had been killed eons ago so they could fight and defeat Spectre.

sorry but the sun isn't greater than a nuclear fusion explosion it is a nuclear fusion explosion. since to survive Ultra just transported himself to another dimension with his mind he size of the explosion makes absolutley no difference what so ever. the only member of my team who cant simply dimensionally travel at will to safety is Psycho pirate and his mask resurects him. Mordru is stated to be unending even Hourman one million who could manipulate time to a degree greater than anyone could not devolve him to a weaker verion of his time line because he will always be.

#19 Edited by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

also the reason I listed some ( not all) of Ultra accomplishments is because if i simply said that he can match Doom in almost every aspect you'd have said I was lying. quite frankly the reason I haven't said what he will make (i believe i just said some truly incredible weapons) is that working in the labs of the weaponers of Qward with his intellect I believe he would make new break thoughs based on new concepts he'd seen in their labs. In truth what he should come up with will make whatever he's done before look insignificant, once he starts questioning precepts based on the different tech he'll encounter here. think about it someone with his brain power getting the chance to reverse engineer a yellow power ring and other more powerful devices and then turn that reverse engineered tech into something that completely defies science as known to that point. It would seem i have more faith in Ultra than you have in Doom what with your only relying on tried and tested tech That he's made before

#20 Edited by New_World_Order (13179 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting has begun? I think I will go with @beatboks1 in a solid victory. Good debate to read though.

#21 Posted by YoungJustice (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

Firstly, great debate to both, it was a pleasure to read.

I'm going with Mr.I, I liked the way he debated a little more, but it was almost a tie for me, great job!

#22 Posted by beatboks1 (7213 posts) - - Show Bio

more votes

#23 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning on Mr. I