Buff: Your group stops at a small island town and recruits 1 more crew member.
Debuff: Bandits! A band of thieves come aboard your ship and steal your weapons! ( A member of your choosing, can't be the pet or crew, loses their weapons and must replace them with what's on your ship )
@joewell: Okay wasn't sure if you ever stated the rules of that lol...Also you never changed Pride to Isaac.
Whoops!
Also- "Yo, while I'm here can you post in my thread real quick? I forgot I was the OP and couldn't post more than twice. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/pirate-tourney-r1-joewell-vs-jactheripper-1666293/#1"
Initial Strategy: Well, considering I'm the green star I suppose that my team would head at an angle to the right (from the point of view of looking at the picture), and then turn upwards out toward the open sea. My ship is a smaller and faster version of the Fire Navy Cruisers made for speed and agility so I should have no problem outpacing you. I'll utilize a smokescreen of steam generated by Isaac to conceal my movements and keep your ship from locking on to me and firing upon my vessel.
Captain:
My Captain is superior to yours. Although he doesn't have the myriad of weapons yours does he doesn't need them because he is the ultimate weapon. Ultimate Captain America has many advantages over your Captain, perhaps his greatest being his enhanced mental abilities. Ultimate Captain America is one of the greatest tacticians in comics. He has accelerated mental processes that allow him to collect and analyze a vast amount of information near instantly and make split second tactical decisions on the battlefield. This has been shown time and time again such as when he was able to completely change his crew's battle plan seconds before jumping out of a plane in WWII simply by viewing the battlefield. This change in plans secured them a victory that likely would not have been possible as he commented the original plan had a whole the size of Iowa. Another example of his ability to rapidly assess situations and improvise is seen when he single-handedly takes out the Ultimate Avengers, which included Ultimate Nick Fury, Ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Black Widow, Ultimate Wasp, Nerd Hulk, and Ultimate War Machine.
Ult. Cap. can master new styles of fighting and weapons rapidly, and "learns new skills faster than a damn computer" as Nick Fury commented. This is illustrated by the fact that not long after being unfrozen from the WWII time period he self-taught himself computer skills sufficient to hack into protected government information.
He also has an eidetic memory, which means that he has perfect recall. He has experience with varying types of opponents and enemies from aliens, mutants, and superhumans to conventional warfare. He is famous for being able utilize what he has at his disposal to defeat opponents who outnumber and overpower him.
Besides that his also capable of sprinting up to 80 MPH, covering 8-9 blocks in seconds, and leaping 60 yards in a single jump. His reflexes are good enough to dodge machinegun bullets from multiple points in close proximity,deflect Ult. Hawkeye's tranq rounds perfectly back at him, and trade blows with Ultimate Spider-Man. He is strong enough to hurt Ultimate Hulk and other superhumanly strong foes with well placed strikes, sever Ultimate War machine's arm, catch a massive falling tree that was able to flatten a jeep, was able to fight through being restrained by multiple super soldiers, and was able to grapple with Ultimate Spider-Man. As far as stamina Ultimate Cap can push his limits for hours and not tire.
He barely needs to eat or sleep, he's largely immune to alcohol and all other earthly toxins and diseases, and fought through supersoldiers after being shot up with tranquilizers designed for superhumans to the point he looked like a pin cushion. He heals at an accelerated rate knife wounds healing in mere minutes, gunshot wounds in an hour, and he is durable enough to tank blows from Ultimate Hulk, Ultimate Abomination, and Ultimate Juggernaut and keep fighting. He has fallen several stories onto pavement, skydived into water, and sustained an 80 MPH impact with a car with little more than soreness to show for it.
Lastly you have to consider his mastery of CQC , weapons mastery, and indestructible shield. Ultimate Captain America is head and shoulders above your Captain in H2H skill and has an indestructible shield to utilize both offensively as well as defensively. Frankly Ult. Cap outclasses Titus in nearly every possible manner, and given his ability to utilize every resource at his disposal to his advantage my team will be exceptionally difficult for you to deal with. This isn't even taking into account that your Captain is drunk. At as little as one beer your reflexes begin to be effected by alcohol, if Ultimate cap didn't already have enough of an advantage he does after your captain is three sheets to the wind.
Swordsman:
Composite King Bradley is a beastly swordsman. He is capable of wielding 5 swords with such precision and speed he cannot be seen by the human eye. He was raised from a child for the sole purpose of being the ultimate warrior. He went through arduous physical and mental training to master martial arts, weaponry, tactics, politics, and so on. He possesses physical attributes well beyond peak human, able to parry machinegun fire easily with a sword, cut a tank shell in half, and engage multiple highly skilled bullet-timers in CQC without even being touched...even after he lost his sword and was forced to fight with knives which he wasn't used to.
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He did all of this after surviving his train being blown up as it crossed a bridge, defying gravity by leaping from one piece of falling debris to another until he got to safety, and then walking from East all the Way to Central which is halfway across the country. Add in his Ultimate Eye which allows him to read his opponents and know what attacks they are going to come at him with, and rapidly assess complex situations and I doubt your swordsman could land a blow on me. Even if he could, I still have a considerable healing factor that will allow me to regenerate from any blow you deal that is less than full decapitation. I honestly don't believe your sword fighter can cope with the combined abilities Bradley brings to the table. Bradley can move so fast that he unsheathed his sword and cut Edward Elric's halberd before Ed (a bullet-timer) and a whole room full of military officers could even tell he had moved. He landed multiple killing slashes on Isaac, who was also a very fast opponent, so fast that he couldn't even be seen doing it.
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Lastly the Ultimate Eye gives Bradley the ability to see his opponents weak spots/weaknesses and exploit them. Your character cannot hide his weaknesses, and Bradley will pick them apart with his exceptional skill and precision at a speed your guy won't be able to keep up with.
Gunner:
My gunner outclasses yours severely. Vash is so much faster than a T-800 it isn't funny. A T-800 couldn't hit Vash if it tried. He's a casual bullet-timer with reflexes good enough to deflect bullets in mid-air with coins. In fact he deflected bullets from both sides of a gun duel with pebbles. He's fast enough to disarm a room full of people before they noticed, and speed blitz superhuman goons.
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Watch starting at 40:00.
He's also highly intelligent and, super agile, superhumanly durable. The T-800's only saving grace is it's durability, but that won't be enough. It's highly possible he could even lure a T-800 into firing toward one of it's teammates and then dodging the blast leaving it to take out it's own teammates. His cybernetic left arm is outfitted with a fully automatic sub machine gun. T-800s have had a hard time with normal humans before, Vash is vastly superior to a normal human in every conceivable way. There is also the fact that Vash can let loose because a T-800 isn't a living being and he usually goes to great lengths not to kill anyone.
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Wildcard:
I can honestly say your T-800 may outclass Isaac in pure strength and durability, but he more than makes up for that with his versatility and fighting skill. He's an exceptionally skilled alchemist capable of controlling the states of water to create various effects. He can create a steam cloud around the T-800 and then instantly freeze it over it's body creating a T-800 Popsicle. His water and ice has shown capable of slicing and crushing stone. Edward stated that he can superheat water fast enough to make it explode with the force of a bomb blast. Unfortunately for you we are surrounded by water, so this is a playground for Isaac. The number of things he could do with this much water is endless.He can even freeze the moisture in the air. This means he can coalesce ice around your characters from thin air. He's also a very capable H2H fighter, capable of holding his own against both Edward and Alphonse at the same time, and overpowering dozens of soldiers, dodging Major Armstrong's attacks, and humiliating Roy Mustang. The guy has shown tactical intelligence and resourcefulness in single-handedly almost taking down Central Command. King Bradley is the only one who ever clearly overwhelmed him in combat and that says a lot considering nobody ever defeated a fully healthy Bradley in combat, and he can move faster than bullet-timers can even detect.
Parrot:
First of all there is no freaking way that your pet is legal.
You are telling me that this dragon is weaker than 10 tons and can't survive a single shot from a grenade launcher?
That dragon likely weighs around 10 tons and you're telling me that it doesn't have 10 ton strength? That makes absolutely no sense, the thing couldn't even move around if it were that weak. For reference Appa from Avatar:The Last Airbender is 10 tons and he's significantly smaller than this dragon. I find it highly suspect that a single shot from a grenade launcher would be enough to kill it either, unless it got lucky and hit some weak spot. For picking an obviously above the limits team member that team member should be stripped from the team.
As for my animal it obviously stand no chance against yours. However it is very useful to my team because we can coat our arrows and blades in it's venom, allowing us to paralyze your characters given that it was powerful enough to effect Appa with just a few hits. I kept mine within the limits, you didn't, and it's going to cost you.
Crew:
The Yu Yan Archers are some of the most skilled archers in all of fiction, let alone fodder. They are good enough to pin a fly to a tree from 100 yards without killing it. This is a direct quote from Admiral Zhao. They made a perfect shot at 400 yards in the middle of the night to hit Zuko square in the forehead. They are exceptionally nimble and skilled, able to keep up with Aang who is an airbender and superhumanly fast and agile, and capture him with their precision. They were able to shoot 3 arrows into the exact same location, splitting the previous arrow.
Making them even more dangerous is the fact their arrows will be tipped with Shirshu toxin, meaning it will instantly paralyze anyone on your team who is hit with an arrow.
Strategy:
Alright so now that your team is following mine and we have our smokescreen up we go into the second phase of our plan. You won't be able to see us with thermal imaging or infrared because of the heat generated by the steam. Under the cloak of the steam Ult. Cap and King Bradley will dive under the water and swim underwater until they reach your ship. this will be done immediately in unison with the smoke screen being created. By this time most of your team should have left your ship and taken to the sky. They will resurface and take the ship. Without any of your most powerful characters on the ship Ult. Cap and Bradley will literally tear through your forces in seconds and secure the ship. Meanwhile Isaac and Vash will be making their way to the ship via ice bridge created by Isaac. He will conceal this with the steam and slowly the rest of my team will follow. We will leave our ship so that there is not enough fuel and so it becomes a sitting duck with us in control of your ship. Now Vash takes control of your mounted "big shoota" and uses his perfect aim to shoot your T-800's out of the air while the Yuyan archers focus on hitting your swordsman. With them out of the way your drunken captain has literally nothing that he can do. Vash will blow him out of the air, or if he makes it to the ship to land Ult. Cap and King Bradley will make quick work of him.
Brother Captain Titus of Second Company is a Ultramarine leader of the highest class. over a couple hundred years of combat experience against a variety of foes. He lead, and defeated a major Ork/Chaos invasion of a Forge World before disappearing from history. He is a genetic superhuman with variety of abilities, and packs the best gear a grunt can have in the Imperium. Titus enters battles with his Jump Pack, Power Armour, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter, and Frag Grenades.
Inquisitor Delius is a Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus. That means he is one of the highest ranking humans in the Imperium that deals with Daemons and forces of Chaos as his specialty. The toughest job of any inquisitor. He is battle harden, fighting the Thousand Sons Chaos Marines for many years. A powerful Psyker in his own right, he enters combat with skill, peak human abilities, and some of the best gear you can have for a human. armed with the Caparace armor, dual Bolt Pistols, Melta Charges, and a Thunder Hammer.
Tanith First and Only is the name of a elite regiment of Imperial Guard. the Imperial Guard is the first and only line of defense in the Galaxy against the hordes of demon, aliens, and forces of Chaos. The Tanith first and Only are primarily light infantry, the name "Ghosts" referred to their superlative stealth and reconnaissance skills, but it was also a melancholy reminder of the fact that their home world, Tanith, was destroyed by the forces of Chaos shortly after their initial Founding. They are none for standing up to Chaos Marines, and Demons where all other forces fail. Making them battle proven and very elite. All are armed with Lasguns with scopes, frag grenades, basic IG Armor, and one has a flamer while another has a plasma gun.
T-800s, the cyborg assassins of Sky Net. Packing highly advance killing weapons, and the most extensive files on infiltration, and extermination. These killing machines sport great durability, skill, and the drive to never stop till the target is dead. Both are armed with Terminator Flight packs, 40 Watt Plasma Rifles, and Grenade Launcher with varying Ammo types.
Cordy, the pet dragon of Angel. A intelligent beast with all the abilities of mythical dragons to fly, breath fire, and bad attitude.
The Ork seafaring vehicle itself. This Ork Submersible with no ability to submerge is a scrape together junk heap by the smartest salvagers of the galaxy. Basically a floating version of a battle wagon, its main job is to sail onto a land or ship, and board it while causing good deal of damage. The front has a unique saw to cut into targets, then the folding ramp folds out to off load the troops. Also equipped with a Lobba and Seakannon. While it may look rickety, it is in fact very sturdy as any iron clad ship of the civil war, and presents a small target to most foes.
Strategy
My team is design to hit hard and fast. While you through up a smoke screen, I have several characters with special visual devices to track heat, x-ray, and life forms. The ork ship will give chase launching the occasional lobba, and firing the tank turret sea canon at yours. Giving chase. Meanwhile my two T-800s, Titus, and Cordy with Delius on the back take flight. Granting a air attack option that your team will have a hard time dealing with. Firing weapons from the air damaging your ship, and slowing it down of not forcing it to start sinking. All my weapons are RPG limit in damage, and your ship is not tanking that steady barrage at all. From there the Ork Sub catches up, tears into it, and the boarding begins.
@lunacyde: Ok taking what you posted above, let me touch on the Pet. The dragon has never shown above 10 ton strength, and in turn had been overpowered by Illyria who is only above 1-2 ton herself. Strikes me more as the fat kid lifting weights. A 300 poiund kid who rarely does anything physical will have issues benching 80 pound weights. Same scenario here IMO. Dragon may be big, but his strength feats are more in the few ton range at best. Your welcome to disprove this with evidence if you have it. Also the Durability limit is RPG durability. You know what a RPG can do? Its made to pierce tank armor and blow up cars. That would drop this dragon if his in the head or body.
Moving on.
Alright so now that your team is following mine and we have our smokescreen up we go into the second phase of our plan. You won't be able to see us with thermal imaging or infrared because of the heat generated by the steam.
Still have X-Ray sensores of T-800s. Also Titus HUD in his Helmet displays Radar, and Bio Read outs regardless of "heat". I also have Delius who has Psy abilities to read and sense minds. So I have 4 characters tracking you just fine. Knowing full well what your team is up too, meanwhile your own team blinds itself to mine.
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Power Armor HUD displays.
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X-Ray vision modes.
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Delius mental abilities in picking up surface thoughts, and emotions. Able to track things down with his Psy.
Under the cloak of the steam Ult. Cap and King Bradley will dive under the water and swim underwater until they reach your ship. By this time most of your team should have left your ship and taken to the sky. They will resurface and take the ship.
Considering my ship is air tight and water sealed, that is harder to board than you make it out to be. Add to this my team knows what yours is doing. We have eyes on you thanks to our ridicules advance tech. Im not sure why we cannot simply shoot ya down in the water, your team can only hold their breath so long, and Titus Power Armor works fine in the water as been shown in 40K underwater battles. So he guns your vulnerable guys with Bolters under water. Easy day.
Without any of your most powerful characters on the ship Ult. Cap and Bradley will literally tear through your forces in seconds and secure the ship.
I question this as well. Reason I pick Tanith First and Only is because they have fought and killed Space Marines by the dozens in many battles. Space Marines are twice the men than Bradley ever was, and even better than Ultimate Cap. The accuracy of these men allow them to kill Chaos Marine by shooting the eyes pieces of the armor as well joints. A already impossible task for most peak humans. They are insane stupid in accuracy and skill.
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Here they are taking out Chaos forces with Chaos Marines in them. In the third scan you see two troopers dodging the super human accuracy and speed of a Chaos Marine firing. In another Novel two troopers shot the eyes out of 5 charging Chaos Marines. The fact is they are well above the comic fodder or anime fodder your two guys are used too. Of course your team needs to find a way inside my Sub boat, and need to keep from being killed by the air attacks of my team, who will refuse to give chase to take down your failed sneak attack threats.
In the end your losing two guys and rather easily.
Meanwhile Isaac and Vash will be making their way to the ship via ice bridge created by Isaac. He will conceal this with the steam and slowly the rest of my team will follow. We will leave our ship so that there is not enough fuel and so it becomes a sitting duck with us in control of your ship. Now Vash takes control of your mounted "big shoota" and uses his perfect aim to shoot your T-800's out of the air while the Yuyan archers focus on hitting your swordsman. With them out of the way your drunken captain has literally nothing that he can do. Vash will blow him out of the air, or if he makes it to the ship to land Ult. Cap and King Bradley will make quick work of him.
Alot of this suggest your Ice Bridge will work, when again my team can sense and see whats yours is doing. Even Delius who is a power psychic can still mentally read your team as well more than likely, and pick up on this plan. Your not ambushing anyone, and more importantly becoming easy targets. I still have air superiority, and unlike your team, my team all have coms to work together like a well oiled machine. My team has several ways to negate what your team think is a good cover, and in the end your team will be ambushed by my team since your own team is blinded by your own tactic unlike mine.
Ok taking what you posted above, let me touch on the Pet. The dragon has never shown above 10 ton strength, and in turn had been overpowered by Illyria who is only above 1-2 ton herself. Strikes me more as the fat kid lifting weights. A 300 poiund kid who rarely does anything physical will have issues benching 80 pound weights. Same scenario here IMO. Dragon may be big, but his strength feats are more in the few ton range at best. Your welcome to disprove this with evidence if you have it. Also the Durability limit is RPG durability. You know what a RPG can do? Its made to pierce tank armor and blow up cars. That would drop this dragon if his in the head or body.
Your dragon weighs over 10 tons, therefore if it didn't have 10 ton strength it wouldn't be able to move, it's as simple as that. Your fat kid analogy is flawed because humans are bipedal animals and their unique style of walking is 75% more efficient than that of a quadruped. Make that fat kid move around on all fours and they're going to collapse fast. Besides that fat kid isn't supporting any weight with his arms, so of course his bench won't be effected. It takes immense strength to hold up a 10+ ton plus body walking around on all fours. Your dragon has over 10 ton strength whether you like it or not. A 1-2 tonner "overpowering" a dragon is either PIS or not a situation where strength is the only factor. All the evidence I need is that the creature is clearly over 10 tons and that it can easily maneuver a body that weighs over ten tons, so logically it can lift over 10 tons.
Also most fictional dragons would not be killed by an RPG. Look at Druk (Zuko's pet dragon) he took an RPG level blast and suffered no permanent damage. The dragon's in Reign of Fire also could not be harmed by RPG level attacks, and I find it highly doubtful Smaug would be killed by an RPG either. It's hard to judge since almost no information is to be found anywhere on the internet about Cordelia other than the basic storyline, but given the level of most other fictional dragons it would hardly surprise me that it could survive an RPG..
Still have X-Ray sensores of T-800s. Also Titus HUD in his Helmet displays Radar, and Bio Read outs regardless of "heat". I also have Delius who has Psy abilities to read and sense minds. So I have 4 characters tracking you just fine. Knowing full well what your team is up too, meanwhile your own team blinds itself to mine.
The Life Readings he is getting just tell him that there are lifeforms somewhere in an environment where there is absolutely no other life. They don't give an exact location or tell him their movements. Also, it's a tropical ocean locale, there is going to be life everywhere. I am going to need more than "strong life readings" somewhere where there is no other life to believe it would be useful in pinpointing my team. As for Delius the scans you provided they don't show the kind of range or precision you're asserting. The first scan simply shows he can use his powers when immediately in front of someone who he knows who is, there's no proof of what kind of range his powers have, or if he can focus in on specifics from a distance. The other scan for him merely shows he can pick up a vague feeling in a direction. You're going to need more than that to precisely track my team. Same thing goes for your T-800 X-ray vision. There is no proof that the X-ray vision works beyond ten feet away. Lastly the one scan you posted shows them using infrared scanning. Infrared imaging, is also known as thermographic imaging because it senses heat, so once again infrared would not work for you in this situation.
My team only needs to know what vague direction to travel in, and they will easily be able to hear the ship in order to head in that direction. Your team however needs to be able to pinpoint my team members in the fog, something you have not yet proved you could do.
Considering my ship is air tight and water sealed, that is harder to board than you make it out to be. Add to this my team knows what yours is doing. We have eyes on you thanks to our ridicules advance tech. Im not sure why we cannot simply shoot ya down in the water, your team can only hold their breath so long, and Titus Power Armor works fine in the water as been shown in 40K underwater battles. So he guns your vulnerable guys with Bolters under water. Easy day.
How exactly would your team be able to see mine underwater, and why would they think to look underwater in the first place? They would be focused on trying to locate the ship and would not be looking underwater. Infrared imaging would be useless as water is infrared non-transparent so all you would be able to see with infrared would be the surface of the water. If you are using some means of "life readings" how are you going to tell the difference between a dolphin, or shark, or any other of the countless lifeforms out in the ocean and members of my team? As for X-rays, water attenuates the penetration of X-rays so that at 1 meter of depth 90% of x-rays will not penetrate and x-ray imaging through a meter of water or more is ineffective. I would also like to mention that normal humans can hold their breath for well over five minutes. The real life Guinness Record holder held his breath for 20 minutes. At the distance we are at (500 meters) and the speed you will likely be pursuing (approx. 30 MPH is the average speed for a submarine) they should only need to hold their breath approximately 37 seconds. (30 MPH = 13.4 m/s, 500 meters/13.4 m/s = 37.31 seconds.)
As I have shown your team won't be able to detect my underwater characters, and they can easily hold their breath long enough to wait for your ship to come by and spring their attack. From there Captain America is strong enough to bend steel with his bare hands and damage War machine, so it wouldn't be hard for him to tear open the doors to your ship or use his shield to cut through the locking mechanisms. Bradley is also super strong and has sliced through steel tank treads with a sword like a hot knife through butter. His Ultimate Eye also gives him the ability to pinpoint any weaknesses in your ship in less than a second.
I question this as well. Reason I pick Tanith First and Only is because they have fought and killed Space Marines by the dozens in many battles. Space Marines are twice the men than Bradley ever was, and even better than Ultimate Cap. The accuracy of these men allow them to kill Chaos Marine by shooting the eyes pieces of the armor as well joints. A already impossible task for most peak humans. They are insane stupid in accuracy and skill.
Your personal opinion aside, your fodder is no match for King Bradley. It's a simple matter of fact and logic. You can't kill Bradley by shooting him in the eyes because he is fast enough to casually deflect machinegun fire with a sword and slice a tank shell in half, and that is WITHOUT him using his ultimate eye. It doesn't matter how accurate they are when bullets appear to him in slow motion. You've already proven yourself wrong that Space Marines are better than Bradley and Cap, because neither Ultimate Cap, nor Bradley would get shot in the eye by a bullet, they're casual bullet-timers. Ultimate Hawkeye has that same level of accuracy, and do you know what happened when Ult. Cap faced him? He deflected Hawkeye's rounds back at him with his shield and KO'd Hawkeye.
Your troops are in over their head. The Briggs troops are the best soldiers in FMA, their skill and ability is legendary, they fought through the Central Forces easily and captured Central Command despite being outmanned and outgunned, every man in the Briggs force is able to defeat a Grizzly bear in combat, and Bradley killed 5 of them before the shattered glass from the window he ran through hit the ground.There is absolutely nothing in those scans that says your crew can last even a minute against the combined might of Cap and Bradley. Cap took out the Avengers, and has defeated dozens of more skilled, more powerful foes. He's too fast for them to tag with bullets and too strong and skilled for them to combat in close quarters. Then you can add in the fact that Bradley has a healing factor that will heal bullet wounds in seconds and it's a bad day for your guys.
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Here they are taking out Chaos forces with Chaos Marines in them. In the third scan you see two troopers dodging the super human accuracy and speed of a Chaos Marine firing. In another Novel two troopers shot the eyes out of 5 charging Chaos Marines. The fact is they are well above the comic fodder or anime fodder your two guys are used too. Of course your team needs to find a way inside my Sub boat, and need to keep from being killed by the air attacks of my team, who will refuse to give chase to take down your failed sneak attack threats.
In the end your losing two guys and rather easily.
You're delusional if you think Ultimate Captain America and King Bradley are losing easily to your fodder. First of all if your guys are fast enough to dodge the aim of superhuman speed and accuracy then they are illegal, because olympic level speed is the limit for the crew. Secondly I have already pointed out how their accuracy is moot against someone as fast as Bradley and Cap. I admit that your guys are tougher than typical fodder, but they sure aren't tough enough to take two characters who have the combined skill, experience, and physical advantage that Ult. Cap and Bradley do. Bradley has bested multiple other skilled characters who are superhuman and easy bullet-timers, even fighting them at the same time. (Ex. Fu and Greedling) your guys are simply outclassed and like dozens that have tried before they will fall before these two warriors.
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My team will have no difficulty getting inside as I explained earlier, and it appears your "big shootas" are mounted on the outside of the ship so if you wanted to use them you would have to be outside. Your flying characters will not have detected what my team was doing and will not be looking back at their own ship, but will be focused ahead on the ship they are pursuing.
Alot of this suggest your Ice Bridge will work, when again my team can sense and see whats yours is doing. Even Delius who is a power psychic can still mentally read your team as well more than likely, and pick up on this plan. Your not ambushing anyone, and more importantly becoming easy targets. I still have air superiority, and unlike your team, my team all have coms to work together like a well oiled machine. My team has several ways to negate what your team think is a good cover, and in the end your team will be ambushed by my team since your own team is blinded by your own tactic unlike mine.
You still haven't proven any of your supposed methods of detecting and pinpointing my team will work. You haven't proven Delius has the kind of range to do so, or that he can read the minds of those who are not directly in front of him. Also since you don't have your dragon I don't know how he is getting around. My team won't be easy targets since you still have to prove you can even find them, and if you open up fire on them they will know where you are and they are faster and more accurate than you. You're also ignoring the fact your leader is drunk.
Your dragon weighs over 10 tons, therefore if it didn't have 10 ton strength it wouldn't be able to move, it's as simple as that. Your fat kid analogy is flawed because humans are bipedal animals and their unique style of walking is 75% more efficient than that of a quadruped. Make that fat kid move around on all fours and they're going to collapse fast. Besides that fat kid isn't supporting any weight with his arms, so of course his bench won't be effected. It takes immense strength to hold up a 10+ ton plus body walking around on all fours. Your dragon has over 10 ton strength whether you like it or not. A 1-2 tonner "overpowering" a dragon is either PIS or not a situation where strength is the only factor. All the evidence I need is that the creature is clearly over 10 tons and that it can easily maneuver a body that weighs over ten tons, so logically it can lift over 10 tons.
lol lifting your own weight does not break the rules last time I check, only what you can apply. My dragon cannot or shows anything above a few tons of application of offensive strength, and you still have not proven it weighs over 10 tons anyway. Illyria was smacking it around with 1-2 ton strength. Instead of complaining, just kill my dragon whose only job here is to fly and spit fire.
Also most fictional dragons would not be killed by an RPG. Look at Druk (Zuko's pet dragon) he took an RPG level blast and suffered no permanent damage. The dragon's in Reign of Fire also could not be harmed by RPG level attacks, and I find it highly doubtful Smaug would be killed by an RPG either. It's hard to judge since almost no information is to be found anywhere on the internet about Cordelia other than the basic storyline, but given the level of most other fictional dragons it would hardly surprise me that it could survive an RPG..
Proof again my Dragon who was nearly killed by a lightning bolt will not fall to a RPG which is design to pierce tanks? I feel a RPG will drop it easy, and feats of it do not say otherwise. Stop complaining about the Dragon, its not even being used here to fight you :/
The Life Readings he is getting just tell him that there are lifeforms somewhere in an environment where there is absolutely no other life. They don't give an exact location or tell him their movements. Also, it's a tropical ocean locale, there is going to be life everywhere. I am going to need more than "strong life readings" somewhere where there is no other life to believe it would be useful in pinpointing my team. As for Delius the scans you provided they don't show the kind of range or precision you're asserting. The first scan simply shows he can use his powers when immediately in front of someone who he knows who is, there's no proof of what kind of range his powers have, or if he can focus in on specifics from a distance. The other scan for him merely shows he can pick up a vague feeling in a direction. You're going to need more than that to precisely track my team. Same thing goes for your T-800 X-ray vision. There is no proof that the X-ray vision works beyond ten feet away. Lastly the one scan you posted shows them using infrared scanning. Infrared imaging, is also known as thermographic imaging because it senses heat, so once again infrared would not work for you in this situation.
Look at my scans, they physically show and locate the areas the life forms are at and the X-Ray vision shows just that. You really have no way around it as Voters will see. The X-Ray Vision in Scan 2 shows the Terminator locating targets across easy 100 meters of desert and through the ground where they were in the cave. Delius Range is shown in Scan three above, he sense and located a target threat over 100 meters of that old battlefield in the previous comic. Meanwhile the Space Marines systems have been shown to reach across whole battlefields, and Scan 1 shows the location of targets in a Kilometer long ship with all kinds of interference.
How exactly would your team be able to see mine underwater, and why would they think to look underwater in the first place? They would be focused on trying to locate the ship and would not be looking underwater. Infrared imaging would be useless as water is infrared non-transparent so all you would be able to see with infrared would be the surface of the water. If you are using some means of "life readings" how are you going to tell the difference between a dolphin, or shark, or any other of the countless lifeforms out in the ocean and members of my team? As for X-rays, water attenuates the penetration of X-rays so that at 1 meter of depth 90% of x-rays will not penetrate and x-ray imaging through a meter of water or more is ineffective. I would also like to mention that normal humans can hold their breath for well over five minutes. The real life Guinness Record holder held his breath for 20 minutes. At the distance we are at (500 meters) and the speed you will likely be pursuing (approx. 30 MPH is the average speed for a submarine) they should only need to hold their breath approximately 37 seconds. (30 MPH = 13.4 m/s, 500 meters/13.4 m/s = 37.31 seconds.)
I already explain my team has eyes on yours, and in the case of Delius his mind. They will already see your team jumping in the water. Im going to see all this ahead of time. I have three ways to keep track of you, and if my guys see your team, or in the case of Delius sense your team jumping in the water, not sure why its a issue. We know where two guys are at, and all my team are military leaders who will see plain as day through the obvious fact they are destine to attack my ship. Titus will simply jet pack in the water after ya, and take ya out where your less able to dodge his Bolter attacks.
As I have shown your team won't be able to detect my underwater characters, and they can easily hold their breath long enough to wait for your ship to come by and spring their attack. From there Captain America is strong enough to bend steel with his bare hands and damage War machine, so it wouldn't be hard for him to tear open the doors to your ship or use his shield to cut through the locking mechanisms. Bradley is also super strong and has sliced through steel tank treads with a sword like a hot knife through butter. His Ultimate Eye also gives him the ability to pinpoint any weaknesses in your ship in less than a second.
Captain America never showed busting Warmachine with his hands, ever. All we know is with his Shield and striking feats, he likely struck the arm off if anything. Unless your showing feats of Cap rending Warmachine arm off, that is a false claim. Pretty sure he could cunt into the armor with a blow though, but then he gets blasted away by the all weapons focused on the hole he is trying to make. Add in the air attacks from above. All this is considering somehow he makes it past Titus in the ocean killing him and Bradley.
Your personal opinion aside, your fodder is no match for King Bradley. It's a simple matter of fact and logic. You can't kill Bradley by shooting him in the eyes because he is fast enough to casually deflect machinegun fire with a sword and slice a tank shell in half, and that is WITHOUT him using his ultimate eye. It doesn't matter how accurate they are when bullets appear to him in slow motion. You've already proven yourself wrong that Space Marines are better than Bradley and Cap, because neither Ultimate Cap, nor Bradley would get shot in the eye by a bullet, they're casual bullet-timers. Ultimate Hawkeye has that same level of accuracy, and do you know what happened when Ult. Cap faced him? He deflected Hawkeye's rounds back at him with his shield and KO'd Hawkeye. Your troops are in over their head. The Briggs troops are the best soldiers in FMA, their skill and ability is legendary, they fought through the Central Forces easily and captured Central Command despite being outmanned and outgunned, every man in the Briggs force is able to defeat a Grizzly bear in combat, and Bradley killed 5 of them before the shattered glass from the window he ran through hit the ground.There is absolutely nothing in those scans that says your crew can last even a minute against the combined might of Cap and Bradley. Cap took out the Avengers, and has defeated dozens of more skilled, more powerful foes. He's too fast for them to tag with bullets and too strong and skilled for them to combat in close quarters. Then you can add in the fact that Bradley has a healing factor that will heal bullet wounds in seconds and it's a bad day for your guys.
You're delusional if you think Ultimate Captain America and King Bradley are losing easily to your fodder. First of all if your guys are fast enough to dodge the aim of superhuman speed and accuracy then they are illegal, because olympic level speed is the limit for the crew. Secondly I have already pointed out how their accuracy is moot against someone as fast as Bradley and Cap. I admit that your guys are tougher than typical fodder, but they sure aren't tough enough to take two characters who have the combined skill, experience, and physical advantage that Ult. Cap and Bradley do. Bradley has bested multiple other skilled characters who are superhuman and easy bullet-timers, even fighting them at the same time. (Ex. Fu and Greedling) your guys are simply outclassed and like dozens that have tried before they will fall before these two warriors.
While going showings for your characters, I have guys using Las Guns not Tranq Bullets like Hawkeye, nor are my guys using bullets Bradly can cut. There lightspeed Lasers that can blow a mans arm off. Thay are veteran fighters against Space Marine who like wise would match or decimate whatever feats Cap has, and I ma a huge Ultimate marvel fan, the biggest one. Wither way your not getting to them logically as mention above.
My team will have no difficulty getting inside as I explained earlier, and it appears your "big shootas" are mounted on the outside of the ship so if you wanted to use them you would have to be outside. Your flying characters will not have detected what my team was doing and will not be looking back at their own ship, but will be focused ahead on the ship they are pursuing.
There is no Big Shootas on my ship as seen in the picture. Where do you see them anyway? All I see is a Sea Kannon, Lobba, and thats it.
You still haven't proven any of your supposed methods of detecting and pinpointing my team will work. You haven't proven Delius has the kind of range to do so, or that he can read the minds of those who are not directly in front of him. Also since you don't have your dragon I don't know how he is getting around. My team won't be easy targets since you still have to prove you can even find them, and if you open up fire on them they will know where you are and they are faster and more accurate than you. You're also ignoring the fact your leader is drunk.
I like your whole argument is trying to discredit my dragon, which was a fil. Doubt the range or accuracy of my detetction abilities that I provided, which is a failed. Or down playing my "fodder" proven caliber feats which is a fail. Adding make believe Shootas on my ship where there is none.
Look, your out class, and if your arguments is trying to disprove the claims I posted scans for all to see, then you really lost this battle. Ready for votes unless you have some real counters.
lol lifting your own weight does not break the rules last time I check, only what you can apply. My dragon cannot or shows anything above a few tons of application of offensive strength, and you still have not proven it weighs over 10 tons anyway. Illyria was smacking it around with 1-2 ton strength. Instead of complaining, just kill my dragon whose only job here is to fly and spit fire.
Firstly I’m not going to apologize for following the rules and expecting others to do so as well. It is not complaining to call out someone who has purposely disregarded the rules. We have rules for a reason, and they are explicitly stated in the OP of the original tournament thread. The rules could not be any clearer. They state that the Parrot has a strength limit of 10 tons. Joewell has made it apparent that if you try to sneak in characters that are above the limits then they will be disqualified from the match and you don’t get to replace them. You ignored those rules, so don’t try to paint me in a negative light for calling you out for it. Sure, I could allow you to have the dragon and just counter it as you propose. After all it wouldn’t be difficult; it could be as easy as having Vash shoot it in the eyes and blinding it rendering it useless. However this would be ignoring the fact that you broke the rules in an effort to gain an advantage over everyone else who has been following said rules. I am standing against it on principle. If we just let everyone who chose to break the rules keep the rule breaking character what kind of message would we be sending?
Lifting your own weight does break the rules if you clearly weigh more than 10 tons, as it proves that you have strength in excess of that stated by the rules. If your dragon can lift itself up and it weighs 10+ tons that means that without fail your dragon can impart offensive strength of at least 10 tons. From a laying down position a dragon raising up would be roughly equivalent to doing a push-up. With a beast as massive as your dragon (10+ tons) this easily equates with 10 ton strength. If your dragon can push-up ten tons then it is without a doubt over the stated rules of the thread, and it can easily impart that same amount of force or more to crush something.
I would love to see evidence of Illyria overpowering your dragon because a 1-2 ton person overpowering a 10+ ton dragon doesn’t make sense in any capacity. Even if we disregard the dragon’s strength, she shouldn’t even be able to move its dead weight. Think of it this way, if the dragon were dead and laying there her strength shouldn’t even be able to make it budge, and that is without it exerting any strength whatsoever. So please provide proof of your claims. What you are suggesting is completely illogical.
As for proving that your dragon weighs more than 10 tons, sure I will oblige if you wish. This is a scaled depiction of the size of a male African elephant compared to an average human taken from the National Geographic website.
Adult male African elephants grow to an average weight of 6-7 tons. In fact the largest individual African elephant recorded weighed 10 tons. As you can clearly see when comparing with a picture of your dragon the dragon is significantly larger than the elephant. Furthermore that is not my only example. Appa, the Sky Bison from Avatar: The Last Airbender is stated multiple times to weigh approximately 10 tons. If we compare a picture of Appa we see that your dragon is obviously significantly larger than him as well. Deny it all you want but this is incontrovertible evidence that your dragon weighs in excess of 10 tons.
Proof again my Dragon who was nearly killed by a lightning bolt will not fall to a RPG which is design to pierce tanks? I feel a RPG will drop it easy, and feats of it do not say otherwise. Stop complaining about the Dragon, its not even being used here to fight you :/
Ok first of all, what kind of lightning are we talking about? Natural lightning, magical lightning, is there some kind of special circumstance we should know about? Secondly do you have any idea how hot lightning is? Lightning bolts are 53,540 degrees Fahrenheit, or in other words 5x hotter than the surface of the sun. If the pure heat of a lightning bolt isn’t enough it also carries voltage reaching 1 BILLION volts. So your dragon survived a bolt of energy superheated in excess of 50,000 degrees carrying somewhere near a billion volts of electricity…yes that really helps your argument.
Look at my scans, they physically show and locate the areas the life forms are at and the X-Ray vision shows just that. You really have no way around it as Voters will see. The X-Ray Vision in Scan 2 shows the Terminator locating targets across easy 100 meters of desert and through the ground where they were in the cave. Delius Range is shown in Scan three above, he sense and located a target threat over 100 meters of that old battlefield in the previous comic. Meanwhile the Space Marines systems have been shown to reach across whole battlefields, and Scan 1 shows the location of targets in a Kilometer long ship with all kinds of interference.
Perhaps you should take your own advice and actually look at your scans, maybe even read them. There is nowhere in that first scan that shows the life reading sensors capable of physically showing, or precisely locating the lifeforms. He says, and I quote “I’m picking up strong life readings from deeper inside the vessel”. This shows that he can detect that there are lifeforms in a general area (an entire ship) where there is no other life. It does not prove or even suggest that he can tell the precise location of the life forms(down to say a couple square meters), or their movements. It also doesn’t show that it can differentiate between humans and other lifeforms which are exceptionally abundant in a tropical ocean setting. Please feel free to point out to me exactly where in the scan it shows any of this.
There is no X-Ray vision in Terminator scan 2. Did you even read your own scan before posting? If you did you would see that they clearly state that they are using infrared imaging, not X-ray. Nowhere in the scan does it mention X-ray imaging whatsoever. The fact that you would try and pass this off as x-ray imaging makes me skeptical that I can believe any claims you make. If you would try to pull one over on something so easily proven wrong I think the voters should be hesitant to take anything you say seriously unless it is accompanied by proof. Scans don’t do you any good if they don’t show what you say they show, or are actually counter to your argument.
I don’t know what you are talking about. If you read Delius’ scan 3 it shows him being able to pick up a vague feeling in a particular direction, at an unknown distance. This is not proof of him being able to do anything that you have claimed he can do, and the things it does show he is capable of will be of no use to him in this situation. Your team already knows what direction we are in and that we are enemies, so the extent of his demonstrated abilities are pointless here. Furthermore you haven’t even shown that he can lock on to or track one, let alone multiple individuals. You have not provided proof of his ability to do any of these things, and since you seem to have a tendency to make things up or exaggerate the truth I don’t feel comfortable in taking your word for it.
I already explain my team has eyes on yours, and in the case of Delius his mind. They will already see your team jumping in the water. Im going to see all this ahead of time. I have three ways to keep track of you, and if my guys see your team, or in the case of Delius sense your team jumping in the water, not sure why its a issue. We know where two guys are at, and all my team are military leaders who will see plain as day through the obvious fact they are destine to attack my ship. Titus will simply jet pack in the water after ya, and take ya out where your less able to dodge his Bolter attacks.
No, I have already explained at length, and with evidence why your team does not have eyes on mine. Logical explanations backed by scientific evidence are more compelling than your statements of opinion. Your team will not see mine jumping in the water because they will begin in normal visual mode. As Isaac creates the steam screen my team will immediately submerge into the water. It will take time for you to register that we are creating a smokescreen, and as shown in your own scan of the Terminators fighting where they get shot in the face with the fire extinguisher they have to consciously switch their imaging systems and doing so takes time. By the time you could even possibly find a method of imaging that could possibly work they would be long below the water where no form of your imaging abilities will be able to detect them as I have shown with scientific evidence. I don’t know how you’re possibly going to see this “all ahead of time” considering you don’t have precognition. At best you could see it as it was happening, but of course you can’t because none of your visual modes will work judging by the evidence that you yourself have provided. There is absolutely no evidence that Delius could detect anything remotely as specific as my team going into the water. You don’t know where my guys are at, T-800’s are not military leaders, and your captain is drunk. You said yourself that your team is designed to hit hard and fast and that is the mentality you will show. With your leader drunk and not thinking straight it’s even more unlikely you would be able to realize anything and you would be even more aggressive than normal with your tactics, and in your pursuit of the enemy.
Captain America never showed busting Warmachine with his hands, ever. All we know is with his Shield and striking feats, he likely struck the arm off if anything. Unless your showing feats of Cap rending Warmachine arm off, that is a false claim. Pretty sure he could cunt into the armor with a blow though, but then he gets blasted away by the all weapons focused on the hole he is trying to make. Add in the air attacks from above. All this is considering somehow he makes it past Titus in the ocean killing him and Bradley.
Why does it make any difference whether he did it with his bare hands, or with the shield? He has the shield in this situation so I cannot fathom why that distinction would make any difference. The fact of the matter is that he was able to tear off War Machine’s arm and sent him tumbling down like a sack of potatoes in 5 seconds. So you are saying that he can do that to a hyper-advanced technological suit of armor designed by a genius weapon engineer like War Machine, but he can’t damage a boat thrown together from scraps? It doesn’t matter if it was with the shield or without, or by pure strength or striking, in the end the fact is that he tore through War Machine in seconds, he’ll have no problem whatsoever with your ship. Add in the fact that Bradley’s Ultimate Eye can identify the ship’s weak points in a second and my duo will have no trouble breaking into your ship. How is your crew going to know what part of the ship we will try entering through? Heck, how do they even know ahead of time that we're attacking them? They have no means of detecting such a thing. Even if they do magically know we're about to attack and where they're coming through Ultimate Captain America carries grenades, flash bangs, and tear gas canisters as part of his standard gear.
Gallery
Blasting Jelly is a common resource used by the Fire Nation military as well so Bradley and Cap could use that to blow holes in the ship, or as a coordinated distraction. All he has to do is open a small enough hole to toss one in, cook the grenade, and the resulting blast in a confined space is going to kill, seriously injure, or disorient anyone in the area. King Bradley was able to slice through steel tank treads with a normal sword and throw Greed through stone walls so it’s entirely possible he could also force an opening to split their attention and toss a grenade in. They can open multiple holes and play a game of whack-a-mole if they have to. In a confined space your team will succumb to the variety of grenades and explosives.
There will be no air attacks from above, at least not at first. Your team members in the air could not even possibly detect my duo until they emerged from the water. Even then you will be focused forward where you think the enemy is, not behind. At that point they would be out of range to do anything about it even if they did realize what was happening. Secondly the rest of my team should be getting there via Ice bridge at this point and they would take up an anti-air defense. Once we start eliminating your team we can also take their guns and use them against your remaining fighters. I would not want to face Vash with a Lasgun.
While going showings for your characters, I have guys using Las Guns not Tranq Bullets like Hawkeye, nor are my guys using bullets Bradly can cut. There lightspeed Lasers that can blow a mans arm off. Thay are veteran fighters against Space Marine who like wise would match or decimate whatever feats Cap has, and I ma a huge Ultimate marvel fan, the biggest one. Wither way your not getting to them logically as mention above.
Firstly the lasgun isn’t going to damage Cap’s shield so it really doesn’t matter whether they can blow a man’s arm off, they won’t even scratch the shield. Cap has reflexes and mental processes fast enough to see when they are about to shoot and dodge or block the area where the shots will be. Secondly the survivors will be injured and disoriented from the explosives meaning them fighting back is going to be difficult. As for Bradley his Ultimate Eye grants him precognition and allows him to know where they are going to shoot and avoid the path of the lasers.
Bradley's Ultimate Eye was able to calculate a path to run along falling rubble from a train explosion and is fast and agile enough to run along chunks of falling debris. I couldn't find the video of it happening in the anime, but it was even more impressive than pictured here.
Furthermore his healing factor guarantees that he’ll almost instantly regenerate from anything short of being decapitated or his entire body being blown up. Of course this is all assuming you can even shoot at us. You’re trapped in a tin can and you don’t know where we’ll be coming at you from. Thirdly I see that you conveniently didn’t address the fact that if your crew are as fast as you say they are they are over the stated limit for fodder. Basically either your crew is as fast as you have stated and they are illegal, or they are nerfed to the level stated in the rules and they will simply not be fast enough to move in reaction to Bradley. Either way you are screwed. It’s interesting that once again you have choices that are illegal and outside the limits set up in the rules.
I doubt that they could match very many of Cap’s feats. Could they take down the entire Avengers roster? Take down the Hulk? Reduce War Machine to uselessness in seconds? No, Cap is a superior fighter, who is more intelligent, faster, more agile and more skilled. Bradley is even faster than Cap is, has the Ultimate Eye, and can heal back from anything short of being decapitated or blown to bits. Please explain how their feats decimate those of Cap, or Bradley.
There is no Big Shootas on my ship as seen in the picture. Where do you see them anyway? All I see is a Sea Kannon, Lobba, and thats it.
I was going based on multiple sources I read that stated that they are usually mounted on the outside of the ship in order to support the troops as they attacked. You don’t want them, that’s fine it doesn’t faze me at all.
I like your whole argument is trying to discredit my dragon, which was a fil. Doubt the range or accuracy of my detetction abilities that I provided, which is a failed. Or down playing my "fodder" proven caliber feats which is a fail. Adding make believe Shootas on my ship where there is none.
Look, your out class, and if your arguments is trying to disprove the claims I posted scans for all to see, then you really lost this battle. Ready for votes unless you have some real counters.
Interesting, in reality most of my argument does not revolve around your dragon. I have provided proof and logical explanation why your version of events is greatly flawed. Moreover I am not trying to “discredit” your dragon, I am showing that he is unequivocally over the stated limits and therefore illegal. Don’t try to make me out to be the bad guy when you are the one who seems to have a blatant disregard for the rules instated in the OP. You seem to have a penchant for trying to get around the rules and use illegal choices to try and gain an advantage over other competitors who follow the rules. I don’t particularly like this, and I’m not just going to acquiesce to your abuse of the rules. You’ve tried with more than one character to disregard the posted limits. Like I said before I could counter your dragon, but why should a rule abiding competitor be forced to make concessions for a rule breaker?
As for the range and precision of your detection abilities I doubt them because you have not provided any evidence that actually backs up the bold claims you have made about them. You have actually either knowingly lied or been naively ignorant about claims you have made that your own evidence contradicts. I have demonstrated through logic and the application of scientific fact why none of the detection abilities you are clinging to would actually work.
I have not actually downplayed your fodder at all, I agreed that they were impressive by fodder standards (perhaps too impressive considering they break the rules), but they cannot defeat my powerhouses in this situation. There is just too big of a speed gap for them to hang with Bradley who has moved so fast bullet-timers couldn’t see, and knows what they are going to do before they do it. I’ve already explained the other myriad of reasons that they won’t survive. It’s not underplaying them, there is just no way that if they abide by the rules they could possibly keep up with Bradley, or even Cap.
Lastly I already told you I only mentioned the “shootas” because multiple sources claimed that they were typically used by the ships. It’s a very small point in my argument, and quite frankly it doesn’t change anything. If you don’t want them then that’s fine it doesn’t really affect me.
Look, if I were outclassed it would be because you have trouble keeping your characters within the explicitly stated limits. However I am not outclassed as I have made apparent throughout this debate. You have no valid counters for my team, and you have at times resorted to presenting false information which I have pointed out. You captain is drunk meaning his reflexes, decision making, logical reasoning, critical thinking, memory, emotions, coordination and vision are all effected. Alcohol is a depressant meaning it slows down your brain’s functioning. You are going to need to be at top shape to even have a chance to beat my team, especially since half your team should be disqualified for breaking the rules. With a leader that is hampered and a team so greatly diminished you stand no chance of winning. Lets do this, I am fully ready for votes if you are, I am sure the voters will be able to determine who should rightfully win this debate.
@joewell Apparently my opponent says he's ready for a vote.
None of my characters break limits, and your outclass. Trying to state my characters break limits when they dont at all, all because your team is outclass is not my problem. My original points stand, and the feats I provided for them are pretty clear whether you wish to ignore them or not.
@joewell This was not a good match up. Ready for votes.
None of my characters break limits, and your outclass. Trying to state my characters break limits when they dont at all, all because your team is outclass is not my problem. My original points stand, and the feats I provided for them are pretty clear whether you wish to ignore them or not.
@joewellThis was not a good match up. Ready for votes.
Well at least you got one thing right. False claims, unsubstantiated talking points, ignoring undeniable evidence, and trying to fit in characters that have obviously been proven to be over the rule limit is not a good match on your part.
None of my characters break limits, and your outclass. Trying to state my characters break limits when they dont at all, all because your team is outclass is not my problem. My original points stand, and the feats I provided for them are pretty clear whether you wish to ignore them or not.
@joewell This was not a good match up. Ready for votes.
It kind of is your problem. If your team outclasses his, it's because your team is over the limits of the tourney, as Luna has very clearly demonstrated. He doesn't have to address points from characters that he has proven to be a breech of the rules, but it seems like he did anyway.
Well at least you got one thing right. False claims, unsubstantiated talking points, ignoring undeniable evidence, and trying to fit in characters that have obviously been proven to be over the rule limit is not a good match on your part.
SFW's claims of fodder taking down Luna's team were kinda ridiculous. I found myself agreeing with Luna at nearly every turn, including the one about the rules.
Interesting read guys, fiery debate to say the least
stalemate. Luna did not prove that Fizz team was over the limit but Fizz did not debunked those claims neither with scans. Take out the Dragon claim and I would have voted for Fizz.
None of my characters break limits, and your outclass. Trying to state my characters break limits when they dont at all, all because your team is outclass is not my problem. My original points stand, and the feats I provided for them are pretty clear whether you wish to ignore them or not.
It kind of is your problem. If your team outclasses his, it's because your team is over the limits of the tourney, as Luna has very clearly demonstrated. He doesn't have to address points from characters that he has proven to be a breech of the rules, but it seems like he did anyway.
Yeah, BS. My character that I know well are within limits, and it is BS he wants to claim they are not when he has no proof to show they are not.
@joewell Is this for real? Are we counting votes on this nonsense?
stalemate. Luna did not prove that Fizz team was over the limit but Fizz did not debunked those claims neither with scans.
Yeah, that my whole team was over the limit really annoyed me, not a good way to argue, though question, why should I debunk the claims? Shouldn't he prove they are over the limits Joewell set forth? Thats not fair imo. Sounds like the person crying wolf gets the sympathy when nothing he provided place them above limits. Thats such bad debating.
Still in the midst of reading this, but I will say that I feel the dragon should be considered acceptable. It seems within the nerfable range. The fodder are kind of sketchy though.
Still in the midst of reading this, but I will say that I feel the dragon should be considered acceptable. It seems within the nerfable range. The fodder are kind of sketchy though.
Really? The Fodder. That surprises me. Is it because the Lore setting they are part of and coming out on top of the threats they face? Honestly they should beat Ultimate Captain America if two of them can snipe multiple Chaos Marines, but thats skill rather than stats. They are Punisher level humans that fight super humans and powerful demons all day. Is that why they are too much?
@sirfizzwhizz: You got my vote. The stuff about the dragon was kind of a waste of time IMO. Lifting body weight shouldn't really count for anything, and I've never heard this argument before. There was also not any feats you brought up or shown that was breaking the rules with Cordy, so I thought it was nothing but a waste of text that could have been spent saying how to kill Cordy instead.
I also think focusing on "fodder" is too big of a deal. People confuse nameless with fodder all the time. Fodder characters are characters that get mowed down and exist for only that reason, characters like Space Marines, are THE main characters, not fodder. I get in these same conversations with StarCraft units all the time, and I have to ignore the unsupported opinions that these units are fodder. When these nameless characters have better feats then named characters, they are just simply better sometimes, regardless of names.
I also think focusing on "fodder" is too big of a deal. People confuse nameless with fodder all the time. Fodder characters are characters that get mowed down and exist for only that reason, characters like Space Marines, are THE main characters, not fodder. I get in these same conversations with StarCraft units all the time, and I have to ignore the unsupported opinions that these units are fodder. When these nameless characters have better feats then named characters, they are just simply better sometimes, regardless of names.
Yeah, like the Terran marine is just a fodder. Or Zealot is just a fodder. Anyway, thanks for the vote.
Even if we discount the Dragon and crew issues I think top to bottom he had a much more solid debate. It was more coherent, organized, and well thought out. SirFizzWhizz had several times where he just ignored points that he didn't like.
@lunacyde: I'm voting for Luna, although I felt the Dragon was acceptable assuming he would be nerfed. However, I agreed with (literally) every Battle-Related statement Luna made, and felt Luna's argument was a lot more coherent, logical, structured, relevant, ect. Fizz said many times he outclassed Luna, but I didn't see any evidence that solidified that. Luna's evidence was better integrated, and realied more on the situation at hand (from a tactical standpoint) than on demonstrations of raw power. Luna also had more plausible counters.
@tparks: I addressed them as fodder because that is exactly what they are described as in the Tounament OP.
@wbr17:I don't know why he ignored his debuff despite the fact I brought it up more than once.
The reason I didn't address my debuff is because A.) he didn't bring it up, and that's his responsibility. B.) King Bradley's standard weapons are a set of normal swords, so it didn't really effect my strategy that they got stolen, the Armory in a Fire navy ship would be full of swords.
@joewell Is this for real? Are we counting votes on this nonsense?
Well, yea. Why wouldn't I? You both said you were ready for votes and people are voting. The only reason the vote wouldn't be counted is if it was based off of biasism or voting on something that isn't which side debated better/more convincingly.
Really? The Fodder. That surprises me. Is it because the Lore setting they are part of and coming out on top of the threats they face? Honestly they should beat Ultimate Captain America if two of them can snipe multiple Chaos Marines, but thats skill rather than stats. They are Punisher level humans that fight super humans and powerful demons all day. Is that why they are too much?
Yeah that basically sums it up. Probably going to word this wrong, but I don't feel they directly break the limits or anything of the sort. Like most warhammer 40k fodder though, they're more fodder for mid tiers and are basically as talented as any named characters. This I suppose is just kind of not in the spirit of what a fodder should be. This isn't really a valid reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed. Also almost done with reading. Would have already voted, but Ijust spent that past 45 mins wasting my time and sucking at photoshop.
@joewell Is this for real? Are we counting votes on this nonsense?
Well, yea. Why wouldn't I? You both said you were ready for votes and people are voting. The only reason the vote wouldn't be counted is if it was based off of biasism or voting on something that isn't which side debated better/more convincingly.
Really? The Fodder. That surprises me. Is it because the Lore setting they are part of and coming out on top of the threats they face? Honestly they should beat Ultimate Captain America if two of them can snipe multiple Chaos Marines, but thats skill rather than stats. They are Punisher level humans that fight super humans and powerful demons all day. Is that why they are too much?
Yeah that basically sums it up. Probably going to word this wrong, but I don't feel they directly break the limits or anything of the sort. Like most warhammer 40k fodder though, they're more fodder for mid tiers and are basically as talented as any named characters. This I suppose is just kind of not in the spirit of what a fodder should be. This isn't really a valid reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed. Also almost done with reading. Would have already voted, but Ijust spent that past 45 mins wasting my time and sucking at photoshop.
Not trying to argue or anything, just kind of shed more light on my thought process.
From what he showed and said they were able to dodge automatic gunfire from enemies that are "superhumanly fast and accurate". The stated limit on speed for "fodder' is Olympic Athlete speed. That kind of speed simply isn't fast enough to be able to dodge someone who is superhumanly fast and accurate.
@joewell Is this for real? Are we counting votes on this nonsense?
Well, yea. Why wouldn't I? You both said you were ready for votes and people are voting. The only reason the vote wouldn't be counted is if it was based off of biasism or voting on something that isn't which side debated better/more convincingly.
Yeah, I was confused by that as well.
If you think i broke the rules, you should throw me out period my friend :)
If I am in the rules, then votes should not count against me for "breaking the rules" as that is not a reason. One or the other I am cool with. Thats my outlook on tourney's ;)
Really? The Fodder. That surprises me. Is it because the Lore setting they are part of and coming out on top of the threats they face? Honestly they should beat Ultimate Captain America if two of them can snipe multiple Chaos Marines, but thats skill rather than stats. They are Punisher level humans that fight super humans and powerful demons all day. Is that why they are too much?
Yeah that basically sums it up. Probably going to word this wrong, but I don't feel they directly break the limits or anything of the sort. Like most warhammer 40k fodder though, they're more fodder for mid tiers and are basically as talented as any named characters. This I suppose is just kind of not in the spirit of what a fodder should be. This isn't really a valid reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed. Also almost done with reading. Would have already voted, but Ijust spent that past 45 mins wasting my time and sucking at photoshop.
Not trying to argue or anything, just kind of shed more light on my thought process.
From what he showed and said they were able to dodge automatic gunfire from enemies that are "superhumanly fast and accurate". The stated limit on speed for "fodder' is Olympic Athlete speed. That kind of speed simply isn't fast enough to be able to dodge someone who is superhumanly fast and accurate.
Punisher dodge attacks from insane accurate people like Bullseye, and so does Robins from DC or such. None of them are above the speed limit. Thats a great skill and reaction feat. On part of the Warhammer 40K Fodder simply because they are train to deal with that level of foe. Nothing about them is stated superm human. In fact there are stated normal humans. Just saying.
@sirfizzwhizz: It doesn't matter what your outlook is. Joewell has stated multiple times that if you are in a battle and some one can prove a character is above the limits then that character will be disqualified. by signing up for a tourney you agree to the terms and conditions of the thread maker. It's not your call.
I'm not going to get into it because the debate is over and I could argue about it all night, it's not going to change anything.
@sirfizzwhizz: It doesn't matter what your outlook is. Joewell has stated multiple times that if you are in a battle and some one can prove a character is above the limits then that character will be disqualified. by signing up for a tourney you agree to the terms and conditions of the thread maker. It's not your call.
I'm not going to get into it because the debate is over and I could argue about it all night, it's not going to change anything.
omg.... I said if my characters are above just boot me. Its up to him ultimately if I am over. If someone is going to vote for you base on your lame @$$ BS of calling out the limits of my pet and fodder, that should not count. Joewell never said I was out of limits if you paid attention to anything but your own crying. Get off the limits thing.
Thankfully many people who voted already, whether for you or me, see my stuff is in limits. You seem to be the one crying about it most of the match. You made what I hoped to be a fun debate into a match I really did not care to enjoy, as it was all arguing my crap in limits, but out class yours. Its why i did not even put up much a debate unlike the other CaVs and tourneys I do. You made this debate unpleasant and a chore to argue my stuff in limits.
I really hope I never have the misfortune of meeting ya in a tourny, after 3 years of tourneys, my first time against ya, and it was uuug.
@joewell Just give him the win. Im sure he will get votes, I really did not put forth my A game, and some voted for him base on his crying of the limits. Just let him have it. Not worth it more I think about it lol.
@sirfizzwhizz: If you think I'm winning because of the limits you're delusional. The only person here crying is you. If you can't handle it that's your problem not mine.
Anytime you want a rematch I will relish the opportunity.
None of my characters break limits, and your outclass. Trying to state my characters break limits when they dont at all, all because your team is outclass is not my problem. My original points stand, and the feats I provided for them are pretty clear whether you wish to ignore them or not.
It kind of is your problem. If your team outclasses his, it's because your team is over the limits of the tourney, as Luna has very clearly demonstrated. He doesn't have to address points from characters that he has proven to be a breech of the rules, but it seems like he did anyway.
Yeah, BS. My character that I know well are within limits, and it is BS he wants to claim they are not when he has no proof to show they are not.
Are you trying to fight with voters now? Have you ever played a tourney at all?
@makhai: Funny, half the guys I thank for votes were to Lunacyde, but thank them for reading and not being bias. Nah just dont like your BS about my characters over the limits because of Lunacyde is all, also pretty sure your a alternate account anyway, made in 2012, and only 646 posts. Questionable.
@sirfizzwhizz: If you think I'm winning because of the limits you're delusional. The only person here crying is you. If you can't handle it that's your problem not mine.
Anytime you want a rematch I will relish the opportunity.
Im pretty sure your winning because you put more effort in this debate. Pretty sure the only thing I am upset about through the whole debate was your crying about the limits, and people who gave you votes base on it.
Ah, why I bother, your just trying to gloat at this point. Enjoy your win, hope the next guy does not have to put up with this nonsense. From one HoF to another, your a bad sport. Good luck to ya ;)
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