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#1 Edited by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

Now this has been done before:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/piccolo-vs-pikkon-30346/

but it's not like this is an overdone topic. With DBZ fights back on the menu, I figured I should see what the DBZ debaters on the Vine think about the outcome of this match up. And my version has more specifics

  • In character
  • Majiin Buu Saga Version of Piccolo (I'd include GT but there aren't actually any good feats for him there) and both anime and Fusion Reborn feats can be employed for Pikkon.
  • Standard Winning Conditions ie KO, Incapacitation, BFR, Death if either is willing to dish it out etc
  • Both combatants start out with weighted training clothing in picture but option to take it off is available
  • Logical reasons for why you think a character wins
  • No flame wars, trolling or being jerks to each other. DBZ threads need their respect back after all
  • Fight takes place on the Supreme Kai World

Who wins between the battle of the DBZ green machines?

#2 Edited by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

pikkon ftw

piccolo was nowhere near goku's strength at the end of cell games.

pikkon tied with goku in they're fight

#3 Edited by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: I should probably specify a version of Piccolo in the OP.

#4 Posted by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@russellmania77: I should probably specify a version of Piccolo in the OP.

ya but either way piccolo never got much stronger after that saga

#5 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@russellmania77: I should probably specify a version of Piccolo in the OP.

ya but either way piccolo never got much stronger after that saga

A fair point. He was overshadowed by Goten and Trunks by their fusion technique which is annoying as hell for Piccolo fans. I never liked the Buu Saga much.

#6 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

TL;DR

By feats Pikkon stomps.

Considering how much more powerful Piccolo should have gotten in the seven years following the Cell Games, I'd say they're roughly equals in power, with Piccolo pulling a minority due to an experience and skill advantage, as well as regeneration.

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Hard to say, but a good match. Piccolo's highest feat I think is taking on Android 17:

And Imperfect Cell stood equal to Android 16. Yet Semiperfect Cell took a punch from 16 without flinching or moving a muscle, and proceeded to stomp all 3 Androids:

Semiperfect Cell gets stomped by Super Vegeta:

Who is roughly equal or inferior to MSSJ Goku:

Whereas Pikkon stood up to an Ascended MSSJ Goku:

By feats Pikkon stomps.

However most seem to agree that Piccolo grew to around MSSJ Goku level in the Buu Saga - they were all training for the tournament, after all. I'd argue he was a bit weaker though, as it seemed to me he was less committed to growing his own power and took on a more leadership role after fusing with Kami. And, I'd also argue that Goku wasn't trying his hardest against Pikkon.

So I say (Buu Saga) Piccolo and Pikkon are roughly equals in raw power, giving Piccolo the advantage due to his regeneration; which in my purely speculative opinion was a main reason he could stand up to 2nd Form Frieza, when Vegeta couldn't, on Namek.

Pikkon's primary strength was clearly in his techniques, and that is quite similar to Piccolo as well as their appearance. By both feats and speculation however I'd say Piccolo's arsenal is far superior. His Special Beam Cannon penetrated foes three times as powerful as him, whereas Pikkon's elemental attacks did visibly less damage to Goku who was roughly his equal at that power level.

#7 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon.

#8 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: Very nice post for Piccolo. Just what this thread needed.

#9 Posted by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: yeah but didnt both goku and pikkon train with the kai after they're fight?

#10 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

@thc: yeah but didnt both goku and pikkon train with the kai after they're fight?

Now that you mention it yes I do recall, though Grand Kai was apparently pathetic in terms of fighting compared to them and he confessed it in monologue.

I forgot Pikkon took out Cell and Frieza as well, but that seemed like some severe filler to me.

Still... if Piccolo wasn't strong enough to take out Cell by the Tournament in the Buu Saga, seven years after the Cell Games, I don't think he would have even bothered participating to compete with the likes of Vegeta, Gohan and Goku.

#11 Posted by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc: just for fun maybe, cuz krillin and android 18 where also in it too

#12 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

@thc: just for fun maybe, cuz krillin and android 18 where also in it too

I think it's highly unlikely for Piccolo to join up if he didn't think he could win for sure, but you might be right, since Kami did do just that in Dragonball as "Hero." Seeing as they've fused, I once again come to the conclusion that it's probably a little of both and Piccolo at his best is a little weaker than Pikkon. But he's certainly got more feats, and regeneration, and the skill and experience of three great warriors, whereas the only experience feat for Pikkon... is that he died.

And when you're that powerful, if you die, it's because you fought a more powerful foe (unlikely, but if so it must have been ridiculously powerful) and/or you did something stupid.

#13 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon

#14 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon is probably more powerful, but Goku didn't need to be stronger to beat him, in fact he was in rougher shape than Pikkon was from tanking hits. He just noted the weakness in Pikkon's technique as he was foolish enough to use it three times in a row

#15 Posted by Marshall_Long (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is a Ring Out Tournament fight then gotta give it Piccolo he seems to be the smarter fighter out the two but if it is a fight to the death definitely Pikkon due to superior Strength.

#16 Posted by niBBit (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

Pikkon is probably more powerful, but Goku didn't need to be stronger to beat him, in fact he was in rougher shape than Pikkon was from tanking hits. He just noted the weakness in Pikkon's technique as he was foolish enough to use it three times in a row

Pikkon was also faster. He managed to outmaneuver Goku several times in there fight. One instance was when Goku tried to land some energy shots on him and Pikkon showed that he's fast enough to dodge them (he was standing on a rock above Goku taunting him) the second time was when they where floating in the air, taking a short pause in witch Goku told him that this fight was very tough, Pikkon smiled and said that he was about to be even tougher and rushed Goku and knocked him down before Goku could even defend himself. Indeed it was stupid for Pikkon to use the same trick 3 times in a row, had he used something different he would have won. Pikkon had some brutal attacks like that Whirwind attack that nearly ripped Goku apart. Pikkon>Goku for sure.

#17 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@marshall_long:It's not a ring out fight just to be clear. It's a fight until either combatant is KOed, incapacitated, BFRed or dead.

#18 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, considering Piccolo never had any chance to really show off his power or improve after the Cell Games, I'd have to say Pikkon holds a majority over him as he basically stalemated a Full-powered Super Saiyan Goku. Piccolo never come close to that level during the Cell games although he was stronger than the base Super Saiyan.

In terms of Fusion Reborn, Pikkon seemed to hold his own very briefly against Super Janemba who embarrassed SSJ3 Goku, but he was quickly disposed of. I'd say Pikkon would take this with relative ease.

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#19 Edited by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: ya but to be fair about fusion reborn, pikkon found out a weakness of janemba was insulting it

#20 Posted by dondave (33383 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon ftw

#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: Indeed, but he still managed to at least stay alive against an opponent of that level which embarrassed Goku of all people.

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#22 Posted by Chibi_cute (4387 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon is much more stronger than picollo

It will be a good fight considering picollo got many trick attacks on his sleeve

but in the end Pikkon will beat his ass.

#23 Edited by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: Indeed, but he still managed to at least stay alive against an opponent of that level which embarrassed Goku of all people.

technically he wasnt alive lol

#24 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon had impressively powerful techniques, but he certainly didn't give off the impression of a warrior.

In a fight to the death I'm still siding with Piccolo. It's important to note in his fight with 17 he was unable to sense his ki so he was fighting purely on instinct and skill. With his regeneration, he should be able to hold out just fine against Pikkon's powerful techniques, and his own techniques will more than hurt Pikkon, who has no regeneration of his own, that we know of.

#25 Edited by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

pikkon would win he is far stronger than piccolo . At his strongest piccolo could tie android 17 but couldn't beat 2nd form cell . Pikkon was on par with ssj goku who was able to beat perfect cell (before he recieved a zenkai and became super perfect cell) .

#26 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually MSSJ Goku was below Perfect Cell but only barely, though Goku may have had time to train before his fight with Pikkon to cover that gap. Goku wasn't far above Perfect Cell (at the most) when he fought Pikkon, in fact he was afraid to engage him and then Pikkon knocked him and Frieza into Hell with one shot.

Vegeta improved from below Android 18 to above Semi-perfect Cell, and put as much of a dent in Perfect Cell as MSSJ Goku did, after 2 years of training. I think it's safe to assume Piccolo would achieve close to that power in 7.

I think overpowering Babidi may be enough to put Piccolo well above Pikkon.

Babidi was at least planetary level with his magic, mindraping the entire Earth with ease many times throughout the series. In addition, he easily disposed of Spopovich:

And Spopovich is no pushover. He easily dealt with Videl, a top-notch superhuman martial artist who is easily as strong or stronger than Goku was when he fought Raditz, and though she lacked experience with ki, so did he:

The simple fact that Babidi could easily control Dabura, who is about Gohan's power, and not Vegeta, who is presumably quite a lot stronger, is a good indication of his power level. As well, Babidi was able to react to Piccolo's attack, so it's not like he is completely physically pathetic.

Piccolo was about as strong as Dabura and Gohan (slightly weaker than SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell), give or take, I'd say. Certainly a lot stronger willed and spiritually powerful though.

#27 Edited by GhostRider2 (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon should win, Piccolo is not so strong.

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#28 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

technically he wasnt alive lol

You know what I meant you troll!

@thc said:

Actually MSSJ Goku was below Perfect Cell but only barely, though Goku may have had time to train before his fight with Pikkon to cover that gap. Goku wasn't far above Perfect Cell (at the most) when he fought Pikkon, in fact he was afraid to engage him and then Pikkon knocked him and Frieza into Hell with one shot.

I'd have to disagree with you on this mate. When Goku fought against Cell in the Cell Games, he only did so to allow Gohan to study Cell's movements and fighting technique. He knew that he didn't stand a chance whatsoever against Cell and even then, Goku was going all out the entire time while Cell held back his full power until Gohan transformed into a SSJ2.

Even then, Gohan still beat him to a pulp, but Goku was relatively weaker than Perfect Cell was.

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#29 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Naw, Piccolo in the Buu Saga is more than powerful and tough enough to tank attacks that hardly damaged MSSJ Goku (who wasn't even trying his hardest). As well, Pikkon's techniques, while powerful, took a long time to charge up. Piccolo would easily be able to regenerate cuts and burns and even lost body parts in between assaults.

Piccolo is overall smarter than Goku and would out fight Pikkon just as easily as he did. His arsenal is far superior, and much more expansive. Special Beam Cannon would be lethal, as a light Kamehameha easily blasted Pikkon back.

Piccolo could easily Solar Flare, blinding Pikkon, then surround him with light grenades and/or Special Beam Cannon him down. Again, Piccolo's techniques are far superior even to Goku's Super Kamehameha. Pikkon's appeared to be a bit more powerful as well, but not as powerful as Piccolo's; and they seemed more elemental in nature, rather than like a ki-blast, in my opinion. Which attributes to Goku's apparent weakness to them.

#30 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

said:

technically he wasnt alive lol

You know what I meant you troll!

Flagged, a moderator will handle this shortly. >.>

#31 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@thc said:

Actually MSSJ Goku was below Perfect Cell but only barely, though Goku may have had time to train before his fight with Pikkon to cover that gap. Goku wasn't far above Perfect Cell (at the most) when he fought Pikkon, in fact he was afraid to engage him and then Pikkon knocked him and Frieza into Hell with one shot.

I'd have to disagree with you on this mate. When Goku fought against Cell in the Cell Games, he only did so to allow Gohan to study Cell's movements and fighting technique. He knew that he didn't stand a chance whatsoever against Cell and even then, Goku was going all out the entire time while Cell held back his full power until Gohan transformed into a SSJ2.

Even then, Gohan still beat him to a pulp, but Goku was relatively weaker than Perfect Cell was.

Indeed that was Goku's true purpose for fighting first, and I think that goes to show he wasn't trying his hardest to win. He even tossed Cell a Sensu Bean after their fight was over before he fought Gohan.

Goku and Korin agree that Cell is more powerful:

When Pikkon knocked out Cell his technique could have been masking his ki for all we know, but the scene was ultra-filler-rific and Pikkon never really did defeat Cell in a death match. Frieza and King Cold and the others are obviously insignificant:

Pikkon vs. Janemba doesn't really give us anything. Janemba had some dumb weakness to being insulted which allowed Pikkon to hit him once, but Janemba stomps him in seconds:

After examining Piccolo vs. Babidi, I have to say Piccolo takes the majority rather handily, but Pikkon would probably take a minority through sheer force. DBZ characters aren't as weak to elemental attacks as people generally think (see Hyperbolic Time Chamber training, Goku surviving 20,000 volts as a kid, etc.) but obviously they don't face many opponents who wield that power.

#32 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

Naw, Piccolo in the Buu Saga is more than powerful and tough enough to tank attacks that hardly damaged MSSJ Goku (who wasn't even trying his hardest). As well, Pikkon's techniques, while powerful, took a long time to charge up. Piccolo would easily be able to regenerate cuts and burns and even lost body parts in between assaults.

More powerful than who? Pikkon? That's debatable. It was never mentioned how much Piccolo trained during those seven years of peace or if he even trained at all. At the very least, he was able to maintain the same level of power that he had during the Cell games.

Piccolo has never regenerated cuts, burns or limbs during the middle of a fight. The only significant time he's ever done this was when he first met Cell and allowed him to drain the lifeforce out of his arm so he could discover his true intentions. Besides that, he's never used regenerative abilities in a battle against an opponent of equal or superior skill.

Piccolo is overall smarter than Goku and would out fight Pikkon just as easily as he did. His arsenal is far superior, and much more expansive. Special Beam Cannon would be lethal, as a light Kamehameha easily blasted Pikkon back.

A smarter fighter than Goku? Mmm maybe, but I'd tend to think he's quicker on the draw rather than smarter in general. In terms of his arsenal, it didn't change at all from the Cell Games and his Light Grenade proved to be useless against Cell's second form (or was it his first?). None of his techniques are superior to that of Goku's at the end of the Cell saga, nor did they show any sign of improving much afterwards.

Piccolo could easily Solar Flare, blinding Pikkon, then surround him with light grenades and/or Special Beam Cannon him down. Again, Piccolo's techniques are far superior even to Goku's Super Kamehameha. Pikkon's appeared to be a bit more powerful as well, but not as powerful as Piccolo's; and they seemed more elemental in nature, rather than like a ki-blast, in my opinion. Which attributes to Goku's apparent weakness to them.

Piccolo has never demonstrated the use of solar flare that late into the series, at all. As I already mentioned, his Light Grenade was essentially useless against a character on Goku or Cell's level and the majority of his attacks save for Masenko are all too slow to hit Pikkon, who was far faster than Goku was.

Piccolo's power is no where near that of Goku's Super Kamehameha that he utilized against Cell, so therefore his techniques would be not of much aid to him. Piccolo is slower than Pikkon and relatively weaker (as he showed little improvement). I'd say they are about equally skilled though in terms of martial arts, but that won't help much when Pikkon is clearly the physical superior.

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#33 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

Indeed that was Goku's true purpose for fighting first, and I think that goes to show he wasn't trying his hardest to win. He even tossed Cell a Sensu Bean after their fight was over before he fought Gohan.

Goku clearly stated to Gohan that despite his beliefs that Goku was holding back the entire time, he was giving it his all. He barely could keep up once Cell raised his power and hence why he drained his power quicker as he was fighting at max capacity the entire time. It was also the reason Goku was so desperate to push so much power into his Instant Transmission Kamehameha because he knew he didn't have a chance of fighting Cell anymore at that pace.

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#34 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

Goku clearly stated to Gohan that despite his beliefs that Goku was holding back the entire time, he was giving it his all. He barely could keep up once Cell raised his power and hence why he drained his power quicker as he was fighting at max capacity the entire time. It was also the reason Goku was so desperate to push so much power into his Instant Transmission Kamehameha because he knew he didn't have a chance of fighting Cell anymore at that pace.

I suppose you're right on that point, but that only makes Goku weaker at his time of fighting Pikkon than I was originally giving him credit for, thus making it more reasonable that Piccolo would be able to train in 7 years to be as strong as Goku was, or at least close enough to be able to figure out a win. Just as he and Goku (and Gohan) did against Raditz, who was more than three times as powerful as them, yet visibly less martially skilled (didn't even train his tail to be immune to pain).

#35 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

I suppose you're right on that point, but that only makes Goku weaker at his time of fighting Pikkon than I was originally giving him credit for, thus making it more reasonable that Piccolo would be able to train in 7 years to be as strong as Goku was.

It's definitely reasonable to state that Piccolo become as powerful as Fully powered Super Saiyan by the Buu saga at the very least, but I doubt any more than that. He never truly displayed any potential beyond that or even being on Goku's level as when the World Tournament came around and Goku came back to participate, everyone assumed that Goku hadn't progressed whatsoever and that Gohan was still more powerful than him and Vegeta. If Piccolo was as strong as Goku was during the Cell saga, they would've at the very least commented on that fact and he wouldn't have had any reason to be concerned about the Supreme Kai.

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#36 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@thc said:

Naw, Piccolo in the Buu Saga is more than powerful and tough enough to tank attacks that hardly damaged MSSJ Goku (who wasn't even trying his hardest). As well, Pikkon's techniques, while powerful, took a long time to charge up. Piccolo would easily be able to regenerate cuts and burns and even lost body parts in between assaults.

More powerful than who? Pikkon? That's debatable. It was never mentioned how much Piccolo trained during those seven years of peace or if he even trained at all. At the very least, he was able to maintain the same level of power that he had during the Cell games.

Piccolo has never regenerated cuts, burns or limbs during the middle of a fight. The only significant time he's ever done this was when he first met Cell and allowed him to drain the lifeforce out of his arm so he could discover his true intentions. Besides that, he's never used regenerative abilities in a battle against an opponent of equal or superior skill.

More powerful than when he fought Android 17. It is debatable where Piccolo lies in power in the Buu Saga, but I'd say somewhere around Dabura, give or take a little. If he couldn't stand up to a SSJ2 for even one shot, he'd have no business participating in the tournament. He is different from 18 and Krillin in that regard... their struggle is explained.

Piccolo's regenerative capabilities allow him to keep going against far stronger foes when others fail. When he lost his arm to Raditz he was completely calm, whereas when Tien had his knocked off by Nappa he was on the ground screaming. Tien, being the greatest human warrior in history, didn't stop fighting of course, but he was clearly disturbed by it moreso than Piccolo was. In fact, the reason Piccolo didn't grow his arm back was because he realized at that point it was a waste of energy and wouldn't help him.

2nd Form Frieza was able to speedblitz and one-shot Vegeta, who was equal to 1st form Frieza. By fusing with Nail, Piccolo had a substantial increase in power and fought 2nd form Frieza nearly to a standstill. In my opinion, it was his regeneration that helped keep him in the fight for so long. There's no reason to think such an experienced, intelligent, powerful warrior wouldn't utilize his regenerative capabilities during fights.

Piccolo is overall smarter than Goku and would out fight Pikkon just as easily as he did. His arsenal is far superior, and much more expansive. Special Beam Cannon would be lethal, as a light Kamehameha easily blasted Pikkon back.

A smarter fighter than Goku? Mmm maybe, but I'd tend to think he's quicker on the draw rather than smarter in general. In terms of his arsenal, it didn't change at all from the Cell Games and his Light Grenade proved to be useless against Cell's second form (or was it his first?). None of his techniques are superior to that of Goku's at the end of the Cell saga, nor did they show any sign of improving much afterwards.

No one is a smarter fighter than Goku, but Piccolo is one of the closest, along with Vegeta, Tien, etc. Piccolo has the minds of himself, Nail, and Kami. He has proven time and time again, even while just himself, he is one of the most intelligent and wisest characters in the series. When he gets knocked out in combat, it's usually because he's looking out for someone else.

Of course it proved useless against Cell's second form. Android 16 punched Semi-perfect Cell and he didn't move a nanometer. Piccolo could have used a Kamehameha and it would have had no effect as well, but his techniques are superior, so why would he? Goku's Super Kamehameha hurt Raditz, for sure, but the Special Beam Cannon killed him.

Their techniques rarely show explicit signs or evidence of improving. Especially in cases like Vegeta, where we have no idea exactly how powerful his Gallick Gun or Final Flash are. But Piccolo showed continuous growth in his arsenal of abilities throughout the series, where others like Tien and Yamcha didn't, just as they fell behind in raw power.

Piccolo has never demonstrated the use of solar flare that late into the series, at all. As I already mentioned, his Light Grenade was essentially useless against a character on Goku or Cell's level and the majority of his attacks save for Masenko are all too slow to hit Pikkon, who was far faster than Goku was.

In the later sagas Piccolo didn't demonstrate much at all, after fusing with Kami he took on a much more passive role. I'm not sure but I believe the solar flare was used on Cell by somebody at some point. Piccolo did use an improved version of Solar Flare on 2nd Form Frieza (1:15):

By the Cell saga Piccolo could instantly cast out Special Beam Cannons. He could easily do just that to Pikkon and follow up with a defence-penetration Special Beam Cannon, and given the fact that it's destroyed opponents over 3 times as powerful as him, it would have no trouble penetrating Pikkon while he's blind and defenseless.

Piccolo's power is no where near that of Goku's Super Kamehameha that he utilized against Cell, so therefore his techniques would be not of much aid to him. Piccolo is slower than Pikkon and relatively weaker (as he showed little improvement). I'd say they are about equally skilled though in terms of martial arts, but that won't help much when Pikkon is clearly the physical superior.

Goku's Super Kamehameha was stronger because Goku himself was stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo's techniques are clearly superior to the Kamehameha, especially going by feats, and the Masenko is Gohan's creation... he's not exactly the brightest fighter in the books.

Both Pikkon and Goku repeatedly got the best of each other as they continually increased their power. Goku was obviously not trying his hardest, and was treating it rather as sport. Pikkon was able to trade blows with Goku so he's obviously a skilled H2H fighter, but he was foolish, and inexperienced enough to charge up his attack 3 times. Pikkon clearly was lacking in experience in fighting opponents of similar power, which Piccolo is not.

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@deranged_midget said:

It's definitely reasonable to state that Piccolo become as powerful as Fully powered Super Saiyan by the Buu saga at the very least, but I doubt any more than that. He never truly displayed any potential beyond that or even being on Goku's level as when the World Tournament came around and Goku came back to participate, everyone assumed that Goku hadn't progressed whatsoever and that Gohan was still more powerful than him and Vegeta. If Piccolo was as strong as Goku was during the Cell saga, they would've at the very least commented on that fact and he wouldn't have had any reason to be concerned about the Supreme Kai.

I think it's completely insensible to think Piccolo got lazy like Gohan and Yamcha, and stayed the same power level or got weaker. But at the very least, yes, he stayed the same power as in the Cell Games...

However Piccolo is obviously determined to fight in the tournament. At 12:10 he states "Good, it makes for better fighting."

(12:10)

Piccolo only starts getting nervous when the Supreme Kai shows up.

And that's partly because he's fused with Kami, who is connected to Other World and the Kais, being the former Guardian of Earth. Piccolo would have a greater sense of their power than even Goku (and Vegeta). Krillin didn't think them too powerful, as he is just a human who can sense ki. Even Videl was picking up strange vibes from them (though she proved her spiritual power by learning to fly in a day, something no one except Goten has replicated to date):

(15:30)

But now most importantly.

"everyone assumed that Goku hadn't progressed whatsoever and that Gohan was still more powerful than him and Vegeta."

In fact, everyone assumed Goku and Vegeta had both surpassed Gohan.

Nobody in their right mind would assume Goku and Vegeta hadn't improved. Their debate wasn't over who was stronger than Gohan at all, it was who was stronger between Goku and Vegeta. Gohan had spent the last 7 years studying math and science. Vegeta spent the last 7 years training on Earth (and who knows where). Goku spent the last 7 years training with the Universe's greatest martial artists.

(13:40)

If Piccolo had spent the last 7 years sulking, rather than training, he would have had no business participating in the tournament.

#37 Posted by Marshall_Long (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Yeah I know I was just trying give Piccolo a fighting chance .

#38 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@marshall_long: I take it you don't think he has one in an all out fight then?

#39 Edited by New_World_Order (12318 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon.

#40 Edited by Marshall_Long (1862 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Yeah I don't think Piccolo can take it in an all out fight, maybe I would give Piccolo a chance depending if he trained those last 7 years but I can't remember if he said he did or not cause I haven't fully watched the buu saga in a long time.

#41 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (573 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people like Pikkon because he is newer and mysterious. Piccolo however, is the better fighter. Pikkon had power to be sure, but Cell was also much much weaker in Hell then he was in normal life, this was seen by Pikkons one kick taking him down but not being able to take someone down, Goku, who was much weaker then Cell when he died.

Piccolo is the more skilled, and smarter combatant. Pikkon might have the stronger power, but in DBZ that is almost a death sentence as Raditz, Vegeta, Nappa, Frieza, The Androids, Cell, etc all where much more powerful and all lost. Piccolo would easily possess the skill required to win in a fight.

#42 Edited by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@marshall_long: To be honest, although I've included the Buu Saga for Piccolo, he never accomplishes any significant feats there. But if I kept it at the Android Saga Piccolo, it wouldn't be a fair fight. This leads to confusion though over how strong Piccolo was at that time. He appears to have been training these last 7 years but it's not clear how strong he was. He was awed by the Supreme Kai who was put on a level where he could take down Frieza in one punch but the Supreme Kai was in turn overhshadowed by Goku, Gohan and Vegeta when in Babidi's ship.

#43 Edited by SlimJ87D (9248 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Pikkon beat Cell pretty easily? I don't think Piccolo got within range of any of Cells forms.

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#44 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (22860 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

Didn't Pikkon beat Cell pretty easily? I don't think Piccolo got within range of any of Cells forms.

He did.

#45 Edited by SlimJ87D (9248 posts) - - Show Bio

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#46 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (573 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: This could also have simply been due to the fact that this otherworld God was on earth which could not mean anything good.

#47 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Logic and reasoning, huh? Well, then, Pikkon wins easily. Pikkon took out Frieza (Piccolo should be powerful enough now to take Frieza out) and Cell at the same time.

#48 Posted by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon didn't take out Cell though. He caught him by surprise with a kick and then PIS put Cell into prison.

#49 Posted by INFINITE_DOOM (265 posts) - - Show Bio

Pikkon with relative ease, i always thought Pikkon should have had more appearances :l

#50 Edited by Perpetr8rMike (573 posts) - - Show Bio

@herecomestheboom_headshot: That was also PIS, he simply appeared and kicked Cell into a bed of spikes and then Cell was in prison. It also makes sense that Cell being in hell would actually be WEAKER since he arrived as he was being PUNISHED in Hell. So Cell's form might have been weaker then before. We do not know.