@deranged_midget said:
@thc said:
Naw, Piccolo in the Buu Saga is more than powerful and tough enough to tank attacks that hardly damaged MSSJ Goku (who wasn't even trying his hardest). As well, Pikkon's techniques, while powerful, took a long time to charge up. Piccolo would easily be able to regenerate cuts and burns and even lost body parts in between assaults.
More powerful than who? Pikkon? That's debatable. It was never mentioned how much Piccolo trained during those seven years of peace or if he even trained at all. At the very least, he was able to maintain the same level of power that he had during the Cell games.
Piccolo has never regenerated cuts, burns or limbs during the middle of a fight. The only significant time he's ever done this was when he first met Cell and allowed him to drain the lifeforce out of his arm so he could discover his true intentions. Besides that, he's never used regenerative abilities in a battle against an opponent of equal or superior skill.
More powerful than when he fought Android 17. It is debatable where Piccolo lies in power in the Buu Saga, but I'd say somewhere around Dabura, give or take a little. If he couldn't stand up to a SSJ2 for even one shot, he'd have no business participating in the tournament. He is different from 18 and Krillin in that regard... their struggle is explained.
Piccolo's regenerative capabilities allow him to keep going against far stronger foes when others fail. When he lost his arm to Raditz he was completely calm, whereas when Tien had his knocked off by Nappa he was on the ground screaming. Tien, being the greatest human warrior in history, didn't stop fighting of course, but he was clearly disturbed by it moreso than Piccolo was. In fact, the reason Piccolo didn't grow his arm back was because he realized at that point it was a waste of energy and wouldn't help him.
2nd Form Frieza was able to speedblitz and one-shot Vegeta, who was equal to 1st form Frieza. By fusing with Nail, Piccolo had a substantial increase in power and fought 2nd form Frieza nearly to a standstill. In my opinion, it was his regeneration that helped keep him in the fight for so long. There's no reason to think such an experienced, intelligent, powerful warrior wouldn't utilize his regenerative capabilities during fights.
Piccolo is overall smarter than Goku and would out fight Pikkon just as easily as he did. His arsenal is far superior, and much more expansive. Special Beam Cannon would be lethal, as a light Kamehameha easily blasted Pikkon back.
A smarter fighter than Goku? Mmm maybe, but I'd tend to think he's quicker on the draw rather than smarter in general. In terms of his arsenal, it didn't change at all from the Cell Games and his Light Grenade proved to be useless against Cell's second form (or was it his first?). None of his techniques are superior to that of Goku's at the end of the Cell saga, nor did they show any sign of improving much afterwards.
No one is a smarter fighter than Goku, but Piccolo is one of the closest, along with Vegeta, Tien, etc. Piccolo has the minds of himself, Nail, and Kami. He has proven time and time again, even while just himself, he is one of the most intelligent and wisest characters in the series. When he gets knocked out in combat, it's usually because he's looking out for someone else.
Of course it proved useless against Cell's second form. Android 16 punched Semi-perfect Cell and he didn't move a nanometer. Piccolo could have used a Kamehameha and it would have had no effect as well, but his techniques are superior, so why would he? Goku's Super Kamehameha hurt Raditz, for sure, but the Special Beam Cannon killed him.
Their techniques rarely show explicit signs or evidence of improving. Especially in cases like Vegeta, where we have no idea exactly how powerful his Gallick Gun or Final Flash are. But Piccolo showed continuous growth in his arsenal of abilities throughout the series, where others like Tien and Yamcha didn't, just as they fell behind in raw power.
Piccolo has never demonstrated the use of solar flare that late into the series, at all. As I already mentioned, his Light Grenade was essentially useless against a character on Goku or Cell's level and the majority of his attacks save for Masenko are all too slow to hit Pikkon, who was far faster than Goku was.
In the later sagas Piccolo didn't demonstrate much at all, after fusing with Kami he took on a much more passive role. I'm not sure but I believe the solar flare was used on Cell by somebody at some point. Piccolo did use an improved version of Solar Flare on 2nd Form Frieza (1:15):
By the Cell saga Piccolo could instantly cast out Special Beam Cannons. He could easily do just that to Pikkon and follow up with a defence-penetration Special Beam Cannon, and given the fact that it's destroyed opponents over 3 times as powerful as him, it would have no trouble penetrating Pikkon while he's blind and defenseless.
Piccolo's power is no where near that of Goku's Super Kamehameha that he utilized against Cell, so therefore his techniques would be not of much aid to him. Piccolo is slower than Pikkon and relatively weaker (as he showed little improvement). I'd say they are about equally skilled though in terms of martial arts, but that won't help much when Pikkon is clearly the physical superior.
Goku's Super Kamehameha was stronger because Goku himself was stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo's techniques are clearly superior to the Kamehameha, especially going by feats, and the Masenko is Gohan's creation... he's not exactly the brightest fighter in the books.
Both Pikkon and Goku repeatedly got the best of each other as they continually increased their power. Goku was obviously not trying his hardest, and was treating it rather as sport. Pikkon was able to trade blows with Goku so he's obviously a skilled H2H fighter, but he was foolish, and inexperienced enough to charge up his attack 3 times. Pikkon clearly was lacking in experience in fighting opponents of similar power, which Piccolo is not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@deranged_midget said:
It's definitely reasonable to state that Piccolo become as powerful as Fully powered Super Saiyan by the Buu saga at the very least, but I doubt any more than that. He never truly displayed any potential beyond that or even being on Goku's level as when the World Tournament came around and Goku came back to participate, everyone assumed that Goku hadn't progressed whatsoever and that Gohan was still more powerful than him and Vegeta. If Piccolo was as strong as Goku was during the Cell saga, they would've at the very least commented on that fact and he wouldn't have had any reason to be concerned about the Supreme Kai.
I think it's completely insensible to think Piccolo got lazy like Gohan and Yamcha, and stayed the same power level or got weaker. But at the very least, yes, he stayed the same power as in the Cell Games...
However Piccolo is obviously determined to fight in the tournament. At 12:10 he states "Good, it makes for better fighting."
(12:10)
Piccolo only starts getting nervous when the Supreme Kai shows up.
And that's partly because he's fused with Kami, who is connected to Other World and the Kais, being the former Guardian of Earth. Piccolo would have a greater sense of their power than even Goku (and Vegeta). Krillin didn't think them too powerful, as he is just a human who can sense ki. Even Videl was picking up strange vibes from them (though she proved her spiritual power by learning to fly in a day, something no one except Goten has replicated to date):
(15:30)
But now most importantly.
"everyone assumed that Goku hadn't progressed whatsoever and that Gohan was still more powerful than him and Vegeta."
In fact, everyone assumed Goku and Vegeta had both surpassed Gohan.
Nobody in their right mind would assume Goku and Vegeta hadn't improved. Their debate wasn't over who was stronger than Gohan at all, it was who was stronger between Goku and Vegeta. Gohan had spent the last 7 years studying math and science. Vegeta spent the last 7 years training on Earth (and who knows where). Goku spent the last 7 years training with the Universe's greatest martial artists.
(13:40)
If Piccolo had spent the last 7 years sulking, rather than training, he would have had no business participating in the tournament.
Log in to comment