#1 Edited by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Hi there!

I've been reading the vine for a few years, but only a month or so ago, after the site renewal,i decided to create an account to try and contribute on the forums/wiki.

I've always liked how here on the vine you could find very original and well thought tourneys, but i've always imagined one were you could unify my favorite 3 tipes of event: Create a hero-tourney, Defend/Sourvive tourney,and classic point based tourney.

So, with the great help of @esquire , and being inspired alot from @dedmanwalkin's tournaments, I've decided to give it a try.

This thread is for giving advice on balancement about points, possible bugs and general suggestions.Feel free to insult me or my grammar(I'm italian, so feel free to point out any mistakes) , i'll be glad for any kind of help.

If you think something is over/under priced tell me, and if you'd like a power, an hechmen or an equipment to be added suggest it!

This is how i thought the basic schedule:

1° round:

You get 75 points to create a 2/4(+supporters/hechmen) team,if you want 4 the 4rth base will cost 10 points more:

Base every character has to have it, all others powers are added to the ones of you're base(remember, you do not get the experience or the abilities, only the physical characteristics) :

Human 0 (base 25 year old human, quite fit but nothing exeptional)

Peak Human 2 (well, on the level of an olypionic athlete, with strength/agility/reflexes over the human average)

Super soldier 12 ( You can use Captain america's(Steve) physical feats as a base on witch you can add the other powers)

Space marine 15 ( you'll be able to use a space marine's body as base for your character.If you need info, ask, but mainly read here: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.UYYnlrU0w4o )

_

Morals This is also needed for every character.Remember, team chemistry is on even for created characters, so putting a hero with two merciless killers won't be good! :

Boy scout hero 0 (Won't kill humans or other sentient races, normally holds back more than needed,has good teamwork)

Berserk fury 0 (No teamwork, no thinking, just slaughtering.Won't turn up on teammates, but........ won't even listen to them.At least he's eager to kill )

Vigilantes 3 (Not alot of team-work, will kill if situation needs it, won't hold back)

Cold blooded killer 5 (No morals, no emotions, just cynical behavior)

_

Powers well, you could have a character with no powers.But we are in a comic forum you know.When you see a slash, you have to choose wich character you'll use feat-wise, can't use both:

Strenght:

Captain america/deathstroke/Moon night(night time) 3

Wesker/Midnighter 5

Spider man 7

Colossus/Thing 10

Agility/speed:

Deastroke/Midnighter/Toad 3

Spiderman/Bevatron 5

Wesker 8

Quicksilver 15

Durability:

Captain america 2

Spider man 3

Namor 5

New-52 aquaman 7

Thing 10

Regeneration:

Captain america 3

Spider man 5

Wolverine 10

Martian manhunter 12

Invulnerability(luke cage) 7

Byakugan(Naruto-verse) 7

shape-shifting:

To 3 selected animals 3

To all known animals and reasonable monsters 7

To shape limbs at will/give them enached durability up to wood 3

Flight (This includes how much weight you can carry while fling, it's not in relation with strength):

Archangel 5

Ms.Marvel 7

Pheromone manipulation(reasonalbe, no suicide-inducting) 10

Danger-sense(Spydey) 7

Sonic scream (black canary/banshee) 7

Air bending(Aang, no avatar state) 5

Fire bending(zuko) 5

Water bending(Katara,No blood bending) 5

Earth bending(Korra, no avatar state) 5

Elemental close combact hits(ryu) 7

Ki manipulation (ryu/Iron fist) 7

Mental radar (Daredevil) 10

Enacted senses(wolverine/spider man) 5

Close range (50 mts) Teleportation (no limbs disassembling) 12

Energy absorption/usage:

Bishop 5

Maverik 5

havok 8

cole maggrath(Includes healing when absorbing electricity) 10

Acid creation/corrosive touch(Maverik) 5

Powered up vision(includes x-ray, heat and telescopic vision) 3

Telepathy(young jean grey level) 15

Telekinesis(young jean grey level) 10

Optic beams(cyclops,gives you a visor and same issues of cyclops if visor gets broken) 5

Alter size( from 2 inch to 30 feet) 20

Bone claws(danken/x-23/wolverine) 1

Adamantium claws(Sabertooth/x-23/wolverine) 5

_

Abilities These are optional, but recommended in combination with some powers/equipment:

Close combat weapon mastery(you pick the weapon, let's take ras-al ghul as a standard) 3

Marksmanship(bulleseye/Green arrow/Punisher/Ult.Hawkeye) 5

Close combat skills(you get only hand to hand abilities, to get weapon abilities you have to buy weapon mastery):

Cyclops/punisher/deadpool 2

Iron fist/electra 4

Daredevil /Bronze tiger 5

Batman 7

Swordmanship(you choose the swordman, you gain only the human-possible abilities, no slashing faster than light/slashing thru steel with no additional powers to do it) 5

Movement reading 10

Feral combat style(wolverine) 2

Barbaric combat style(kratos) 4

Movement mimicry(Taskmaster) 12

Q.I.

150 2

200 3

300 4

400 5

Engineering degree( will be able to do medium-basic ingegnieristic work, better in combination with q.I. or right equipment/powers) 3

Genius level intelect&knowledge( you choose a fairly good genius, no reed/doom/pym thou)12

Stealth ability (altair/Ezio Auditore/) 5

Tactical skill(cap.America, being able of noticing weaknesses more easily, coordinating your team, good timing,better usage of prep) 5

_

Power sets Get your powers in a bargain!:

Spider-man(Spider-sense,strenght,agility,regeneration,skills) 30

Wesker(Strenght,speed,regeneration,skills) 30

Archangel (flight,regeneration,strenght and speed)30

Wolverine(Bone claws,regeneration, enacted senses,agility) 25

Bevatron(Energy manipulation, speed and strenght) 25

Aqualad(Strenght,waterkinesis,swimming,very limited magic,durability) 25

Marvel Banshee(sonic scream,sonic radar, flight, sonic defense) 20

Beast(strenght, agility,intelligence) 20

Young jean grey(TK and TP) 20

_

Common equipment (Take in any number, I'll find some more,can be given to henchmen, but not to supporters):

Frag grenades(3),emp grenade(1),flashbang(2),melta grenade(from warhammer 40k, good against bunkers/tanks),caustic grenade(1),smoke screen(1) 1

Assault rifle, 5 mags,scope & silencer,hand gun with 3 mags and silencer(you choose guns, modern weapons) 1

Steel Close combat weapon(you choose style) 1

Vibranium close combat weapon(you choose style) 3

Bow and trick arrows( going for 40 arrows and 15 trick arrows to sort how you like) 2

Claymores(5) 1

Comm. links 1 for each member of team, including hechmen(but not supporters)

Rpg(5 shots) 1

The Don't-even-try serum. Usable one 1 team member(you can buy more than one),gives him invulnerability to all gases,poisons and diseases 1

50 cal Gatling gun(needed peak human up to be fired while moving) 2

_

Rare equipment each of these objects can be taken only once for each team:

Lightsaber 5

Power armor(warhammer 40k, ask for feats,need at least slight super strength to have it,no radars,scans, visors and air filters) 10

Mjolnir(no radar/speed enachment, need at least slight super strength to have it) 10

Vybranium chestplate and bracers 5

Vybranium shield 4

Web shooters(with infinite chartriges, you get basic ability to use them, enachable by buying close combat weapon mastery) 3

Elven cloak(Lotr) 3

Mental shield(good for 1 member, will defend him by any level of tp) 3

Wario's Bike(nigh-indestructible bike that magically fits in a pocket of a selected character, it comes with moderated ability to guide it) 4

Good ammo( 2 mags of carbonadium bullets for a gun, 1 mag for a pistol/25 carbonadium arrows/100 shells for the gatling gun) 2

Despair(from darksiders 2, linked to one of your characters) 4

Huginn and Munin(2 crows telepathically linked to one of your characters,who will be able to control them and see thru their eyes.They are completely incorporeal) 3

_

Conditions well, these could help, now and again:

far too important to fight between us!(team won't care of different moral-types,and will give it's best effort into team-work.Well, berserkers won't team-up even then thou) 5

Bat-cave is my home!(Team has 45 min of additional prep, with basic info about enemies) 5

Prof. X is backing us up!(all members are tk-protected, but this defense will fall if 2 decent Telepaths concentrate on 1 member) 7

Got trained by Fantomex(all members's movements are silenced,still better if you buy stealth ability thou,and they don't have a scent anymore) 5

_

Henchmen I don't like first arrived better served, so anyone can get these, even if previously selected by another user:

Sokka(His meteor-sword, a water-tribe boomerang and armour) 4

Bronze tiger(pre-new 52, only his fists) 4

Elektra(two of her strange looking knives) 6

Nightwing(his two strange sticks) 4

Artemis(a bow, 60 arrows, if you wish you can buy her extra arrows) 5

Mockingbird(No serum power up, her staves and two silenced pistols with 10 mags) 3

Nick fury(1 handgun with 5 mags, 1 uzi with 5 mags, 1 frag grenade, two knives) 3

Silver sable(1 uzi with 5 mags, 1 katana) 3

Bushwacker (well, ya know he does not need weapons) 5

Captain Boomerang(Digger) 5

Ty lee and mei(Mei has a few dozens of her shurikens) 6

_

Supporters well, sometimes even heroes need backup:

Battle Sister(from Warhammer 40k, ask for feats.Has a power armour,3 frag grenades, Godwyn-De'az Pattern Boltgun with 10 mags and a chainsword) 4

Warrior Xenomorph 4

3 shield agents(M-16 with 5 mags, handgun with 3 mags, a knife) 3

Yautja(not a veteran, only has a lance, a few shurikens, a visor but no armour) 4

3 Hydra agents(Uzi with 5 mags, handgun with 3 mags, a knife) 3

2 Ork boyz(from Warhammer 40k, ask for feats.They have a shoota, a slugga and 2 grenades, and their worthless scrap-built armour) 6

====================================================================================

Finally finished, But i feel i'm missing quite alot of possible supporters and henchmen(and probably some equipment).Someone has something to add?

#2 Edited by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

None really. Me and Floopay (I myself personally) try to add all kinds of crazy stuff in out tourneys. Esquire and ThuderGodswrath have a better standrad Battle Thread type Tourney style.

I suggest sticking to the basics first.

1) Find a limit in powers and stats.

2) Number of the Team.

3) Tweak the Rules like... In character, Morals On, Bloodlusted, ect. Random Battle or Prep Time.

4) Pick the Battlefields.

That is it for the main core.

Edit: I just notice you started a Point Tourney.

These are really hard to balance out.

I made a Point sheet off of Esquires. It needs tweaking still.

#4 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

None really. Me and Floopay (I myself personally) try to add all kinds of crazy stuff in out tourneys. Esquire and ThuderGodswrath have a better standrad Battle Thread type Tourney style.

I suggest sticking to the basics first.

1) Find a limit in powers and stats.

2) Number of the Team.

3) Tweak the Rules like... In character, Morals On, Bloodlusted, ect. Random Battle or Prep Time.

4) Pick the Battlefields.

That is it for the main core.

Edit: I just notice you started a Point Tourney.

These are really hard to balance out.

I made a Point sheet off of Esquires. It needs tweaking still.

Well, i did points 1-3, and i'd like to change location from match to match

#5 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: Yeah Esquire may be better at this with the balancing issues. Floopay as well. I suck at balancing which is the core of this type of Tourney needs.

#6 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: Yeah Esquire may be better at this with the balancing issues. Floopay as well. I suck at balancing which is the core of this type of Tourney needs.

Ok, i'll invoke them @esquire , @floopay a tourneay needs you!

Nobody else has a power/equipment/hechmen to suggest?!

#7 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: Don't allow people to pick people above the limitations.

A lot of people will try to pick someone who is well above the limits, and then say that they will just nerf them to fit the rules.

The problem with that, is the character has zero feats to support any of their abilities if they were nerfed. So essentially they wind up with a character who is above the rules with zero feats.

It's one thing to allow a version of a character that was within the rules (Ogami Rei pre-Shibusen Training, Spirit Detective Era Yuske, Classic Era Iron Man or War Machine, Nightwing version of Dick Greyson, etc. etc.), and only use that version of the character. But to pick someone like Master Roshi in a street level tourney is preposterous.

Balancing:

Just say no to people you think would overpower your tournament. A lot of times people will try to sneak someone into a tournament who has a cheap power that is pretty much auto-win, and then claim that there wasn't a rule against it.

The easiest way, is when establishing guidelines put something in that warrants against this behavior. That way, if someone claims there wasn't anything in the rules against it, you have something to fall back on. Examples of a set of limitations would be:

Strength: Maximum of 8 tons. No using boosts and abilities to put the character above this limit.

Durability: Nothing stronger than Halo Spartan Armor. No Regeneration above regular Wolverine level.

Speed: Nobody faster than Spider Man

Reflexes: No reflexes greater than Spider Man's

Special Attacks: Nothing more destructive than a tank shell.

Telepathy: Nothing more powerful than mind reading.

Telekinesis and Related Powers: Nothing that can lift over 5 tons, this includes magnetism, electrokinesis, and any other similar powers.

Other: This is mean to be a mid-level street tournament, no picking characters who have powers or abilities that put them above the limits, or there will be consequence. Consider yourselves warn, and hope you have fun.

Notice the last comment? Makes it clear what you want for limitations, and turns people away from that sort of behavior.

Guidelines:


It's always good to let people know what the tournament is going to be like. Is teamwork a factor? Will there be preparation time before each fight? Do we need a team leader? Are there going to be objectives or is it a straight fight? Etc. etc.

Details are important, try to give as much away as you can without ruining any surprises you might have in store for characters.

As for henchmen. I'm doing henchmen in my newest tournament. The problem with henchmen is not everybody will know who they are. So I specifically am picking henchmen I can find and provide feats for. That way, everyone can use any henchmen, and I'll be capable of supplying them enough feats to debate with them properly. I suggest the same route if you go with henchmen.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#8 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: I'm in the process of doing some rebalancing at the moment, and I'll try to include any additions I can think of. One question: Do you only get 75 total points to make 3 or 4 characters? Or do you get 75 points to make each character?

#9 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@pierpat: I'm in the process of doing some rebalancing at the moment, and I'll try to include any additions I can think of. One question: Do you only get 75 total points to make 3 or 4 characters? Or do you get 75 points to make each character?

75 points for all the team, this night i'll add hechmen and supporters.

#10 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Finished.

Anyone feels about adding/advising/pointing out anything?

#11 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7806 posts) - - Show Bio

seems great to me

#12 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

seems great to me

Thanks.Can you think of anything to add/does anything seem over/under priced to you?

#13 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7806 posts) - - Show Bio

no i think its all good

#14 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: A few balancing suggestions. (These are mostly within your categories, I haven't tried to balance how expensive durability is vs how expensive henchmen are, for example)

  1. I would put Spider-Man as both faster and stronger than Wesker.
  2. I would put Midnighter as faster than Toad, assuming this is Wildstorm Midnighter.
  3. Spider-Man is above Captain America in durability for sure.
  4. I wouldn't make Cap and Spidey's regeneration as so expensive. All the healing seems to expensive, imo.
  5. Why isn't Luke Cage's invulnerability just one of the durability options?
  6. Powered-Up Vision doesn't have a points cost.
  7. Iron Fist is a better martial artist than Daredevil.
  8. Swordsmanship should be cheaper, since buying Batman, Daredevil, Elektra, or Deadpool's skills gets you sword skills, anyway.
  9. It's I.Q., not Q.I., and I would suggest giving the intelligence of characters, rather than I.Q., so that people can make reasonable debates with it.
  10. You also want to use Engineering instead of ingegneristic, since most people don't know what the second word means.
  11. Power Armour should probably be more expensive.
  12. I would put Elektra at 5, not 6.
#15 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: First of all Thanks, if this tourney goes on i'd even have to call it Esquire's complex tourney(with a hand by pierpat)

Now:

@esquire said:

@pierpat: A few balancing suggestions. (These are mostly within your categories, I haven't tried to balance how expensive durability is vs how expensive henchmen are, for example)

  1. I would put Spider-Man as both faster and stronger than Wesker.
  2. Well, we can talk about Stronger.....but faster!?See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNs0pF5iCVo at 4:28 he's.....wounded, stunned and still manages to appear as a blur to a trained and perfectly healthy man....he has no spider sense, no precog, he just does it with physical stats....
  3. I would put Midnighter as faster than Toad, assuming this is Wildstorm Midnighter.
  4. Ok
  5. Spider-Man is above Captain America in durability for sure.
  6. Sure?I've always seen him with lesser durability than him but with far more regeneration.Guess you're right.
  7. I wouldn't make Cap and Spidey's regeneration as so expensive. All the healing seems to expensive, imo.
  8. Well, round 2 will be waves and waves of enemies, regeneration will come in handy.I'll lower all by 1-2 points anyway.
  9. Why isn't Luke Cage's invulnerability just one of the durability options?
  10. I consider that particular power different, because once you bypass it luke is.....very vulnerable, it's not like a general durability
  11. Powered-Up Vision doesn't have a points cost.
  12. Doh!Fixing.
  13. Iron Fist is a better martial artist than Daredevil.
  14. Wait wait?Sure?With no ki?
  15. Swordsmanship should be cheaper, since buying Batman, Daredevil, Elektra, or Deadpool's skills gets you sword skills, anyway.
  16. I'd prefer specify buyng their powers you get only h2h abilities.
  17. It's I.Q., not Q.I., and I would suggest giving the intelligence of characters, rather than I.Q., so that people can make reasonable debates with it.
  18. LOL, used italian order.Can you suggest some characters to base on?
  19. You also want to use Engineering instead of ingegneristic, since most people don't know what the second word means.
  20. Sure.
  21. Power Armour should probably be more expensive.
  22. I know 40k quite well, it's not that good.I'll take away radars,scans, visors and air filters anyway.
  23. I would put Elektra at 5, not 6.
  24. Doesn't she have limited TK now?That comes in handy often.

#16 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#17 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Bump

What else do you want talked about before you start the tournament?

#18 Edited by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@pierpat said:

Bump

What else do you want talked about before you start the tournament?

Only wanted to know if anyone else had any hechmen,supporters or wargear to suggest.I'll bum once more tonight then i'll open sign-ups the 9th(in a new thread)

#19 Edited by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Last bump, i'll create inscription thread tomorrow-

Btw @esquire added a few henchmen/supporters/equipments and made changes considering your advises.