@mypasswordis1234: Again, have you even read Annihilation?
No, he hasn't read Annihilation, but that won't stop him from speaking about things he knows nothing about. Why do you even continue to argue with him? He does the same thing in other threads. He makes up stuff and makes straw man arguments.
Lool you mad becasuse I told you you were using straw man in nappa vs juggernaut, this is your "revenge"?
@xeon1cs said:
@mypasswordis1234 said:
@Vance Astro: I didn't mean for scans, just make some arguments because the "oh, that just for plot. Thanos is invincible!" seems illegit. Plot-power is not an in-comic explanation. Gamora punched Thanos and he wasn't just tank it, Drax with amped punch made a new hole on Thanos back. And that aura was there on the first "drax vs thanos" scan too, yet Drax lost.
Click here.. I don't think Thanos wanted to play shadow-box. That fight represent what would happen against Piccolo. Thanos couldn't land a hit or beam on him while Piccolo could hit him anywhere he want.
@uberhikari said:
@Mortein said:
@xeon1cs said:
It's pretty accepted that most characters in DBZ are planet busters, and top-tier characters are casual planet busters. However it's when people start claiming characters are solar system, galaxy and universe busters that things get out of hand.
The problem is that even a weak DBZ characters such as Frieza in his first form are casual planet busters.
Supreme Kai was powerful enough to oneshot Frieza, and even after fusing with Kibito, he was still too weak to fight against kid Buu, thus indicating that top tier characters are at least millions of times more powerful than Frieza.
Potara fusion multiplys power levels
Considering how:
Frieza << SSJ Goku ( on namek)<Mecha Frieza<<< SSJ Trunks<<<SSJ Goku(pre android saga)<<<<<SSJ Goku (android saga)<SSJVegeta android saga<<Android 18<Android 17<<<<Cell (after absorbing people)</=Android 16<<<<Cell (after absorbing 17)<<<<Vegeta (after training in time chamber)<<<<Perfect Cell<<<<Super Perfect Cell<<SSJ2 Gohan<<<<<SSJ2 Goku</=SSJ2 Majin Vegeta<<<Fat Majin Buu<<SSJ3 Goku<<Mystic Gohan<<<<Buuhan<<<<<<<<SSJ Vegeto<<<<<SSJ3 Vegeto
I think it is important to make some kind of distinction between SSJ Vegeto and Frieza, it is stupid to stuff them both in the same cathegory "causal planet buster!
Do you see what I'm talking about? Look at this. No feats just powerscaling. This is ridiculous. It's like people forgot how to debate with evidence.
Come back after you can refute that powerscaling.
@xeon1cs said:
@mypasswordis1234 said:
@xeon1cs: I wont count it, but I asked back for the "plot device" around 4 times and didn't get an answer. The "plot device" is not a reason to disregard the fact that Thanos can damaged. If there is some special in-comic fact about that aura, then show it already. If there isn't, then accept that Thanos not invulnerable to anything. Especially if you see the Gamora vs Thanos...
The plot device is a reason to disregard the fact that Thanos was one-shot by Drax. No one is disputed the fact he can be harmed. However you're implying that because Drax literally shoved his fist through Thanos's chest, that he can be killed by anyone as strong as Drax, and that they can all just punch holes in him. Which is simply not the case. Again, reading Annihilation would help. The aura never appears, anywhere else, ever, until he is in proximity of Thanos.
I don't know what Gamora vs Thanos fight you read, but she hasn't done shit to him from what I recall.
Not exactly. I asked that what makes that aura with Drax. The aura is always there but Drax can lose, it's not a "auto-win" card. That's some sort of boost. But I don't think I will get a straight answer.
Drax literally compares himself to being the Silver Bullet to Thanos's Werewolf. On the FIRST page of Annihilation #4 he states he was specifically created, genetically encoded with something that allows him to kill Thanos. Even if he doesn't know what it is, he KNOWS he can kill Thanos. On the page before he shoves his hand through Thanos, you can see the aura covering Drax's body, as he rips opens Thanos's shield with ease.
It's how Drax functions.
I see that, I always saw, and written my posts with the aware of it.
" he states he was specifically created, genetically encoded with something that allows him to kill Thanos." This is what I asked first time, you could avoid 2page flamewar if you were tell this when I asked. This is unique ability(Thanos killing aura) but not plot power aka pis..
That's exactly what a plot device is. Drax just pulls this ability out of his butt. Thanos wasn't even aware he could physically rip his shields apart.
@xeon1cs: You can call that plot device, but imo if Drax created that with a purpose that's a legit, reasonable power in comic. More reasonable than "destiny..".
@xeon1cs: You can call that plot device, but imo if Drax created that with a purpose that's a legit, reasonable power in comic. More reasonable than "destiny..".
Drax killing thanos can't really be used as a low showing for thanos.
@Killemall: Your scan is spot on. Note Thanos remains undamaged and conscious even. The attack only gave the 3 telepaths the window to subdue him mentally. Thanos was also in a weakened state throughout.
I believe you to be discussing something different then myself. Vance said he cant take not tank.
@Killemall: Your scan is spot on. Note Thanos remains undamaged and conscious even. The attack only gave the 3 telepaths the window to subdue him mentally. Thanos was also in a weakened state throughout.
Agreed. But the cube itself wasnt fully charged and cube when wielded properly has shown some feat that makes feats from guys like Galactus and Odin look rather casual. A cube being , post recton Beyonder, had his powers stolen for a short time by Spiderman, who only had a portion of his powers and only for nanosecond and he remade all reality. We also have cosmic cube used to resurrect an already killed Galactus, or Thanos with a cosmic cube being able to replace the sentience of 616 (Eternity), then we have a fight between 2 cosmic cube being resulting in a trans-multiversal collateral damage as a side effect. The scope at which cube has shown to operate, kind of shows to me, when wielded properly its might be a little too much for Thanos (heck even Galactus) to handle.
I believe you to be discussing something different then myself. Vance said he cant take not tank.
Apologies thats a fail from my part.
Note to self, read the entire argument before butting in :p
@xeon1cs: You can call that plot device, but imo if Drax created that with a purpose that's a legit, reasonable power in comic. More reasonable than "destiny..".
meh i understand your argument and respect that. But what people seem to be missing is that is the only instance Drax has even come close to hurting Thanos. Every other encounter Drax has been stomped by Thanos, and even in that instance Drax does something unusual and has a weird energy aura radiating from him.
I believe in an interview, after having been hounded by fans constantly, the writer even said, Drax is a special case and he even went on to say Drax cant kill Thor, heck he cant kill even Wolverine but Thanos he can kill. So call it plot, call it his powers, but that was something new for Drax and well he probably wont have that ability now after he was killed.
But at the end of the day, i am one of the few who think Classic Thanos would likely lose this.
@Killemall: No sweat but yeah taking and tanking are 2 different things altogether. As far as your cc points. Exactly thats why a weakend Thanos' feat against is so impressive. There is no reason to assume that wish was weaker even if starlords assessment was accurate. Which it was not clearly evidenced by your second scan example, they did use the cube again. Btw Thanos has had 3 upgrades since classic. Classic has even survived a planet exploding w/no shields or damage.
There is evidence suggesting Thanos can take blasts from Galactus?
He can't. People mistake his Shield's for his actual durability. His Shield's can and has taken hits from Galactus and Omega (the Thanos/Galactus Hybrid who is twice as strong as Galactus). As others have stated clearly, Galactus was about to penetrate Thanos' shields, and then Thanos started begging. When he was hit by Omega, he only survived due to his armor and four layers of Shield's IIRC. The strongest version of Thanos, Thanos Imperative is probably at best around Zeus' level- and probably a bit lower, and in when a Mikaboshi Amped Zeus was hit by a blast from Galan, the latter even stated that no mere Skyfather can withstand my full power Blasts, or something to that effect. And Thanos definitely is not above Skyfather level.
Thanos was pleading w/Galactus to listen to reason to avoid the error he was and did make. He never stated stop please your killing me or anything similar iirc. Infact for him to do so would be entirely out of character. He is obsessed w/Death and longs to be at her side. There is nothing to support that a blast from standard fed Big G will kill Thanos. Esp when a well nourished one had to exert himself to get the effect he managed. I have to disagree. Firstly it would depend on the skyfather, you only reference the 2 most powerful. Secondly Thanos already stalemated the most powerful Odin. Zeus on the otherhand could only manage to stalemate Zuras twice iirc. Thanos became stronger and more powerful then his uncle during his exile prior to his first appearance even. Thanos has been upgraded multiple times since as well.
Thanos was pleading w/Galactus to listen to reason to avoid the error he was and did make. He never stated stop please your killing me or anything similar iirc. Infact for him to do so would be entirely out of character. He is obsessed w/Death and longs to be at her side. There is nothing to support that a blast from standard fed Big G will kill Thanos. Esp when a well nourished one had to exert himself to get the effect he managed.
Galactus exerted himself on Thanos' shield, not on Thanos. Had he been pouring that much energy into Thanos..I believe Galactus would have killed him.
Thanos was pleading w/Galactus to listen to reason to avoid the error he was and did make. He never stated stop please your killing me or anything similar iirc. Infact for him to do so would be entirely out of character. He is obsessed w/Death and longs to be at her side. There is nothing to support that a blast from standard fed Big G will kill Thanos. Esp when a well nourished one had to exert himself to get the effect he managed.
Galactus exerted himself on Thanos' shield, not on Thanos. Had he been pouring that much energy into Thanos..I believe Galactus would have killed him.
True. You may be correct. Yet that was a well nourished Galactus and his blast did pentrate the shield eventually and Thanos showed no viable damage i.e. blood ect. So it is speculation w/no actual evidence to support.
In regards to this battle the best feat of Piccolo is casually destroying the moon via beam cannon iirc. Impressive however Thanos survived a planets destruction unfazed w/no shielding his first appearance. Thanos wins this w/ease via time mind sync warp at minimum. One option of several that Piccolo has no answer for.
True. You may be correct. Yet that was a well nourished Galactus and his blast did pentrate the shield eventually and Thanos showed no viable damage i.e. blood ect. So it is speculation w/no actual evidence to support.
I'm not trying to prove that Galactus can kill Thanos. The instance we are speaking about was used to prove that Thanos can "tank" blasts from Galactus which isn't true. He didn't "tank" anything.
@First_Last said:
In regards to this battle the best feat of Piccolo is casually destroying the moon via beam cannon iirc. Impressive however Thanos survived a planets destruction unfazed w/no shielding his first appearance. Thanos wins this w/ease via time mind sync warp at minimum. One option of several that Piccolo has no answer for.
The thing about Piccolo destroying the moon is that isn't the extent of his power. He's gotten stronger since then. Also there are several characters that have survive planetary\star explosions but can't take a hit from class 100 earth heroes so well.
There is evidence suggesting Thanos can take blasts from Galactus?
He can't. People mistake his Shield's for his actual durability. His Shield's can and has taken hits from Galactus and Omega (the Thanos/Galactus Hybrid who is twice as strong as Galactus). As others have stated clearly, Galactus was about to penetrate Thanos' shields, and then Thanos started begging. When he was hit by Omega, he only survived due to his armor and four layers of Shield's IIRC. The strongest version of Thanos, Thanos Imperative is probably at best around Zeus' level- and probably a bit lower, and in when a Mikaboshi Amped Zeus was hit by a blast from Galan, the latter even stated that no mere Skyfather can withstand my full power Blasts, or something to that effect. And Thanos definitely is not above Skyfather level.
Thanos was pleading w/Galactus to listen to reason to avoid the error he was and did make. He never stated stop please your killing me or anything similar iirc. Infact for him to do so would be entirely out of character. He is obsessed w/Death and longs to be at her side. There is nothing to support that a blast from standard fed Big G will kill Thanos. Esp when a well nourished one had to exert himself to get the effect he managed. I have to disagree. Firstly it would depend on the skyfather, you only reference the 2 most powerful. Secondly Thanos already stalemated the most powerful Odin. Zeus on the otherhand could only manage to stalemate Zuras twice iirc. Thanos became stronger and more powerful then his uncle during his exile prior to his first appearance even. Thanos has been upgraded multiple times since as well.
When Thanos attacked Galactus, he was on something of a heel turn. He didn't so much had a hard on for death anymore, and was actually something of a anti-hero, as he was trying to aid the people who Galactus was threatening by trying to eat their planet. He had previously try to attack Galactus mentally with help from Moondragon. And whether or not he feared death, he still pleaded with Galactus to hear him out. Most logically, he was scared that if Galactus' blast hit him, he would be killed before he could be heard out.
Thanos did in fact lose against Odin. When Thanos (later changed to Thanoside) later poisons Odin, he says this is revenge for losing to him, admitting defeat. For most of the fight, Odin was not using his enchanted Spear, Gunghir, which is standard equipment and can be summoned at any time, and amplifies his blasts. As soon as he started using this, the Fight quickly turned in Odin's favor. Odin, while more heavy with feats, and more inventive in his application of power (Zeus tends to just use lighting and hit things- ask Hulk :D), have also been portrayed as equals, in fact Odin always seems to point it out whenever they meet up. Also, Odin and Zeus were included in the same group of high end beings (including LT IIRC) who tried to take on Thanos during the HOTU saga. While an argument could be made that TI Thanos could beat Zeus, I don't think his power at the most is so much above Zeus that What Galactus said about Skyfather's shouldn't be ignored.
As for the fight with Zuras, I don't think it should be taken too seriously. The conflict was resolved quickly, and I don't think either, particularly Zuras had any intention of truly hurting one another.
Concerning Skyfather's, I use it as a power level concerning the 2 who are the most powerful. Yes there are others, such as Zuras (Who I think Thanos would beat as you mentioned). And Hera and Athena also lead their pantheons for a time, both of whom Thanos would wreck. Then you have others, like Vishnu, who though is light on feats, was able to combine power with both Odin and Zeus to create a blast to level a galaxy, which did nothing but annoy a celestial- so would at least give Thanos a good fight.
@Killemall:
Since your word is as good as fact in these matters, did I make any mistakes here ?
There is evidence suggesting Thanos can take blasts from Galactus?
He can't. People mistake his Shield's for his actual durability. His Shield's can and has taken hits from Galactus and Omega (the Thanos/Galactus Hybrid who is twice as strong as Galactus). As others have stated clearly, Galactus was about to penetrate Thanos' shields, and then Thanos started begging. When he was hit by Omega, he only survived due to his armor and four layers of Shield's IIRC. The strongest version of Thanos, Thanos Imperative is probably at best around Zeus' level- and probably a bit lower, and in when a Mikaboshi Amped Zeus was hit by a blast from Galan, the latter even stated that no mere Skyfather can withstand my full power Blasts, or something to that effect. And Thanos definitely is not above Skyfather level.
Thanos was pleading w/Galactus to listen to reason to avoid the error he was and did make. He never stated stop please your killing me or anything similar iirc. Infact for him to do so would be entirely out of character. He is obsessed w/Death and longs to be at her side. There is nothing to support that a blast from standard fed Big G will kill Thanos. Esp when a well nourished one had to exert himself to get the effect he managed. I have to disagree. Firstly it would depend on the skyfather, you only reference the 2 most powerful. Secondly Thanos already stalemated the most powerful Odin. Zeus on the otherhand could only manage to stalemate Zuras twice iirc. Thanos became stronger and more powerful then his uncle during his exile prior to his first appearance even. Thanos has been upgraded multiple times since as well.
When Thanos attacked Galactus, he was on something of a heel turn. He didn't so much had a hard on for death anymore, and was actually something of a anti-hero, as he was trying to aid the people who Galactus was threatening by trying to eat their planet. He had previously try to attack Galactus mentally with help from Moondragon. And whether or not he feared death, he still pleaded with Galactus to hear him out. Most logically, he was scared that if Galactus' blast hit him, he would be killed before he could be heard out.
Thanos did in fact lose against Odin. When Thanos (later changed to Thanoside) later poisons Odin, he says this is revenge for losing to him, admitting defeat. For most of the fight, Odin was not using his enchanted Spear, Gunghir, which is standard equipment and can be summoned at any time, and amplifies his blasts. As soon as he started using this, the Fight quickly turned in Odin's favor. Odin, while more heavy with feats, and more inventive in his application of power (Zeus tends to just use lighting and hit things- ask Hulk :D), have also been portrayed as equals, in fact Odin always seems to point it out whenever they meet up. Also, Odin and Zeus were included in the same group of high end beings (including LT IIRC) who tried to take on Thanos during the HOTU saga. While an argument could be made that TI Thanos could beat Zeus, I don't think his power at the most is so much above Zeus that What Galactus said about Skyfather's shouldn't be ignored.
As for the fight with Zuras, I don't think it should be taken too seriously. The conflict was resolved quickly, and I don't think either, particularly Zuras had any intention of truly hurting one another.
Concerning Skyfather's, I use it as a power level concerning the 2 who are the most powerful. Yes there are others, such as Zuras (Who I think Thanos would beat as you mentioned). And Hera and Athena also lead their pantheons for a time, both of whom Thanos would wreck. Then you have others, like Vishnu, who though is light on feats, was able to combine power with both Odin and Zeus to create a blast to level a galaxy, which did nothing but annoy a celestial- so would at least give Thanos a good fight.
@Killemall:
Since your word is as good as fact in these matters, did I make any mistakes here ?
Thanos being a man of his word, his pleading was most likely due to his desire to honor his word. Being incapcitated would make it difficult to prevent the destruction of new Rigel. Thanos did not lose. Would he have...most likely imo yet he did not. When Odin failed to defeat him w/o he felt the need to call upon gungnir and still failed before the battle was interrupted. Gungnir is not standard equipment for unlike Thor w/moljnir for example. The clone was a Thanosi who made that statement rendering it moot. Esp since the battle ended before reaching an actual conculsion. Odin refers to Zeus as an equal due to their stations not power levels. There is nothing supporting otherwise. Zeus stated his intent in the Zuras bouts and like Odin vs Thanos was unable to deliver. Classic Thanos even was more powerful then Zuras who showed to be equal to Zeus more then once. Logic would dictate that an even more powerful Thanos should still be more powerful then Zeus when evidence suggests he already was. A starving Galactus destroyed star systems w/a blast. Yet a well nourished one had to exert himself to even breach Thanos forcefield. Your logic is flawed. Just take Odin and thanos most recent encounters w/galactus for example. Thanos faced a well fed and did more damage. Odin faced a weaker and only mangaged to crack his helmet and ko himself from the effort lol. Thanos broke his helmet and sent him thru his own ship skipping across a planet. No offense to killemall yet I have seen him post inaccurate info pertaining to Thanos several times including this thread. You should base your accuracy off actual comics not others statements or your own speculation that has no evidence to support.
Zuras and Zeus have only fought once , if that counts as fighting, and it was angry Zuras vs Zeus who did not what to fight, was never even hurt and left. Also i dont see where people are getting Thanos > Zuras from? Is it because Thanos was said to be the most powerful of the eternal? Because when Zuras fought Zeus, during Eternal vol 1, he was eternal prime, and they get extra powers by tapping into a power source created by Celestials. I dont think there has actually been a statement to show Thanos as Zuras's superior (feats from Thanos however speaks for itself and Thanos is likely Zuras's superior but they have never fought and its not yet a fact by any means, at least not that i know of).
Thanos's obsession to die comes later after Annihilation, long after the issue in question with Galactus BTW. Thanos dies in Annihilation, is finally accepted by Lady Death, evident by the fact that we see Thanos and Lady death hold hands together, and after his resurrection in Thanos Imperative he showed a clear wish to die, which after Thanos Imperative seemed to have completely forgotten or retconned. So Thanos wanting to die certainly shouldnt have played a part in it. Also well Thanos by his own admission, is far less powerful than Galactus 2 issues prior in the same series that happened, him being scared of Galactus's blast makes sense at least to me, specially given the power difference and what an angry hungry Galactus with one blast accomplished during Annihilation 06 (destroying 3 star-systems completely)
Thanos being a man of his word, his pleading was most likely due to his desire to honor his word. Being incapcitated would make it difficult to prevent the destruction of new Rigel. Thanos did not lose. Would he have...most likely imo yet he did not. When Odin failed to defeat him w/o he felt the need to call upon gungnir and still failed before the battle was interrupted. Gungnir is not standard equipment for unlike Thor w/moljnir for example. The clone was a Thanosi who made that statement rendering it moot. Esp since the battle ended before reaching an actual conculsion. Odin refers to Zeus as an equal due to their stations not power levels. There is nothing supporting otherwise. Zeus stated his intent in the Zuras bouts and like Odin vs Thanos was unable to deliver. Classic Thanos even was more powerful then Zuras who showed to be equal to Zeus more then once. Logic would dictate that an even more powerful Thanos should still be more powerful then Zeus when evidence suggests he already was. A starving Galactus destroyed star systems w/a blast. Yet a well nourished one had to exert himself to even breach Thanos forcefield. Your logic is flawed. Just take Odin and thanos most recent encounters w/galactus for example. Thanos faced a well fed and did more damage. Odin faced a weaker and only mangaged to crack his helmet and ko himself from the effort lol. Thanos broke his helmet and sent him thru his own ship skipping across a planet. No offense to killemall yet I have seen him post inaccurate info pertaining to Thanos several times including this thread. You should base your accuracy off actual comics not others statements or your own speculation that has no evidence to support.
Few things i would like to ask:
1. Like i asked him, what statement has ever been made showing Thanos as Zuras's superior,specially when he was an Eternal Prime?
2. About what happened against Galactus arent you simply making assumptions? Its certainly not backed by anything in the series.
3. Odin and Zeus are considered equal because from handbook to pretty much everytime they have met they acknoweledge themselves as equal.
4. The reason we are counting Thanosi's words during Thor: Blood and Thunder was, regardless of the eventually outcome, the issue was clearly written to be Thanos, Starlin later retconning it because he felt Thanos was potrayed weaker shouldnt change the fact that on panel, he refers to it as defeat
5. He had to force himself to breach his shield that much is true and accurate, what however shows him being more durable enough to tank his blasts though?
6. Just out of curiosity, what inaccurate information pertaining to Thanos have i stated several times, let alone in this thread?
@Vance Astro: If you re-read his last line in the conversation he clearly said i have posted inaccurate information pertaining to Thanos, i am just interested to known which instance he is talking about, i probably have scans are easily to mis-interpret sometimes, just curious to what he was referring to.
@Vance Astro: If you re-read his last line in the conversation he clearly said i have posted inaccurate information pertaining to Thanos, i am just interested to known which instance he is talking about, i probably have scans are easily to mis-interpret sometimes, just curious to what he was referring to.
Zuras and Zeus have only fought once , if that counts as fighting, and it was angry Zuras vs Zeus who did not what to fight, was never even hurt and left. Also i dont see where people are getting Thanos > Zuras from? Is it because Thanos was said to be the most powerful of the eternal? Because when Zuras fought Zeus, during Eternal vol 1, he was eternal prime, and they get extra powers by tapping into a power source created by Celestials. I dont think there has actually been a statement to show Thanos as Zuras's superior (feats from Thanos however speaks for itself and Thanos is likely Zuras's superior but they have never fought and its not yet a fact by any means, at least not that i know of).
Thanos's obsession to die comes later after Annihilation, long after the issue in question with Galactus BTW. Thanos dies in Annihilation, is finally accepted by Lady Death, evident by the fact that we see Thanos and Lady death hold hands together, and after his resurrection in Thanos Imperative he showed a clear wish to die, which after Thanos Imperative seemed to have completely forgotten or retconned. So Thanos wanting to die certainly shouldnt have played a part in it. Also well Thanos by his own admission, is far less powerful than Galactus 2 issues prior in the same series that happened, him being scared of Galactus's blast makes sense at least to me, specially given the power difference and what an angry hungry Galactus with one blast accomplished during Annihilation 06 (destroying 3 star-systems completely)
I believ e they fought twice. Zeus attacked and stated his intent not only to beat but to destroy Zuras. Why would a bout between the 2 stemming from an an attack intentionaly ordered and lauched by Zeus be considered anything else. Many things tell us Thanos>Zuras; intent of creator, feats, comic statements, writers statements, history i.e. upgrades, OHOTMU ect... The point I was contesting was that Thanos' pleadings stemmed from a fear of Death. Not implying that he desired to die. Only that Death holds no fear for him.
Would you happen to have an issue number, apart from Eternal volume 1 i certainly havent seen them fight. So which issues are you referring to.
Zeus attacked and stated his intent not only to beat but to destroy Zuras. Why would a bout between the 2 stemming from an an attack intentionaly ordered and lauched by Zeus be considered anything else.
I am quite certainly we are talking about 2 different instances, an issue number, bio or scans would really help here.
Many things tell us Thanos>Zuras; intent of creator, feats, comic statements, writers statements, history i.e. upgrades, OHOTMU ect...
I have certainly seen no comic statement at least on issue Thanos has appeared in to suggest, or even imply he is more powerful than Zuras, would you know what issue was it ever mentioned?
By OTOTMU only states Thanos is physically stronger than Zuras, which is indeed expected, but we are talking about Zuras as eternal prime here (Well at least i am) and that gives him a celestial boost.
The point I was contesting was that Thanos' pleadings stemmed from a fear of Death. Not implying that he desired to die. Only that Death holds no fear for him.
I certainly dont see a point to contest, Thanos himself admit he is significantly inferior to Galactus in Thanos 03, him begging for mercy , with his dress burnt out, certainly seems like he feared Death or at the lest major injury from Galactus. Also i see no reason why Thanos wouldnt feat death or dying. The whole i want to die came much after this series and certainly seem forgotten atm.
Zeus and Zuras have also fought in Thor #291, and there Zeus did in fact declare that he would fight Zuras to the death unless the latter surrendered. But that fight never reached a conclusion because Odin abruptly ended the conflict the next issue, and most of the fight was off-panel anyway.
@Killemall: Really? I thought since it's classic Thanos that he would win. Any reasons why Piccolo wins.
Its hard to actually draw a line where Classic Thanos lies, but apart from Avengers Assemble which obviously is Bendis at his best, Thanos has gone stronger and stronger throughout his history. He actually has 2 boosts, throughout his career and the power power (most powerful) version, without amps, would likely be the one who saw during Thanos Imperative.
The reason i think Thanos would lose is, Thanos neither has speed (he has enhanced reflexes but certainly not to a point he can match piccolo) nor does he have a lot of durability (at least in classic days). The Odin instance is from Blood and Thunder, which is after Thanos's first resurrection and the said resurrection was said to mystically enhanced his powers. Galactus instance is also after his first resurrection.
Before the resurrection, Thanos was actually physically struggling against Adam Magus (Adam Warlock's dark half) and only beat him via death stare (an exotic form of telepathy).
Piccolo much like every DBZ guys has only progressively gone stronger. He busted on moon during Ratiz Saga, and became a super Namek during Freeza Saga and his powers were said to have increased a 1000 folds. He was also actually winning against Freeza before the latter transformed. From them on he has only gotten stronger, has a healing factor better than Thanos in classic days, as durability against energy/ physically just as impressive, has abilities like being able to split himself into 3 etc.
I think at the end of the day comparable stats, better speed and better fighting skills would probably give Piccolo the victory. While Thanos does have telepathy in his arsenal, we are not entirely sure if Piccolo is actually vulnerable to such tactic.
Lastly, (for giggles) the pic is actually of an alternate reality (Reality 20051) Thanos as opposed to 616 counterpart, where lol he actually lost to Spiderman after he stole his gauntlet
Its not that big of deal but errors like these. Thanos has had three upgrades. Thanos survived the planet being destroyed from the effects off his battle w/o shields unfazed. Two feats above any feat displayed by piccolo. Magus powers were described as godlike by characters who wield godlike might. Thanos never defeated magus via any deathstare. Piccolo has no strength or durability feats near par w/ Thanos.
Its not that big of deal but errors like these. Thanos has had three upgrades. Thanos survived the planet being destroyed from the effects off his battle w/o shields unfazed. Two feats above any feat displayed by piccolo. Magus powers were described as godlike by characters who wield godlike might. Thanos never defeated magus via any deathstare. Piccolo has no strength or durability feats near par w/ Thanos.
I am honestly having trouble finding out what 3 upgrades Thanos had.
1. The first one was after he got killed during Synthetic Gem saga, where he got mystical boost from Lady Death
2. Second one when during Thanos Imperative where he got the whole avatar of death and unable to die powers, when was the second one?
The second i just disagree, they fought , the planet was destroyed doesnt automatically shows that Piccolo who before his upgrade, which was ment to increase is powers a thousand fold destroyed a moon.
Magus powers were described as godly? Not in the issue i read, but i was just reading Thanos's appearence in the series to likely. Deathstrake, here it is:
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
Its not that big of deal but errors like these. Thanos has had three upgrades. Thanos survived the planet being destroyed from the effects off his battle w/o shields unfazed. Two feats above any feat displayed by piccolo. Magus powers were described as godlike by characters who wield godlike might. Thanos never defeated magus via any deathstare. Piccolo has no strength or durability feats near par w/ Thanos.
I am honestly having trouble finding out what 3 upgrades Thanos had.
1. The first one was after he got killed during Synthetic Gem saga, where he got mystical boost from Lady Death
2. Second one when during Thanos Imperative where he got the whole avatar of death and unable to die powers, when was the second one?
The second i just disagree, they fought , the planet was destroyed doesnt automatically shows that Piccolo who before his upgrade, which was ment to increase is powers a thousand fold destroyed a moon.
Magus powers were described as godly? Not in the issue i read, but i was just reading Thanos's appearence in the series to likely. Deathstrake, here it is:
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
@Killemall
said:
@First_Last said:
Its not that big of deal but errors like these. Thanos has had three upgrades. Thanos survived the planet being destroyed from the effects off his battle w/o shields unfazed. Two feats above any feat displayed by piccolo. Magus powers were described as godlike by characters who wield godlike might. Thanos never defeated magus via any deathstare. Piccolo has no strength or durability feats near par w/ Thanos.
I am honestly having trouble finding out what 3 upgrades Thanos had.
1. The first one was after he got killed during Synthetic Gem saga, where he got mystical boost from Lady Death
2. Second one when during Thanos Imperative where he got the whole avatar of death and unable to die powers, when was the second one?
The second i just disagree, they fought , the planet was destroyed doesnt automatically shows that Piccolo who before his upgrade, which was ment to increase is powers a thousand fold destroyed a moon.
Magus powers were described as godly? Not in the issue i read, but i was just reading Thanos's appearence in the series to likely. Deathstrake, here it is:
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
The second upgrade is referenced in the Thanos mini. I ve never seen Frieza destroy anything close to a planet w/physical blows or withstand blows from anyone who has nor Piccolo. So I fail to see how there bouts establishes anything other then piccolos speed advantages. The point is piccolo lacks feats to support him as Thanos equal in regards to strength durability and endurance. You should read that series again his powers are referred to as such many times and Adam destoyed that timeline making magus fade from reality no deathstare was involved.
Would you happen to have an issue number, apart from Eternal volume 1 i certainly havent seen them fight. So which issues are you referring to.
Zeus attacked and stated his intent not only to beat but to destroy Zuras. Why would a bout between the 2 stemming from an an attack intentionaly ordered and lauched by Zeus be considered anything else.
I am quite certainly we are talking about 2 different instances, an issue number, bio or scans would really help here.
Many things tell us Thanos>Zuras; intent of creator, feats, comic statements, writers statements, history i.e. upgrades, OHOTMU ect...
I have certainly seen no comic statement at least on issue Thanos has appeared in to suggest, or even imply he is more powerful than Zuras, would you know what issue was it ever mentioned?
By OTOTMU only states Thanos is physically stronger than Zuras, which is indeed expected, but we are talking about Zuras as eternal prime here (Well at least i am) and that gives him a celestial boost.
The point I was contesting was that Thanos' pleadings stemmed from a fear of Death. Not implying that he desired to die. Only that Death holds no fear for him.
I certainly dont see a point to contest, Thanos himself admit he is significantly inferior to Galactus in Thanos 03, him begging for mercy , with his dress burnt out, certainly seems like he feared Death or at the lest major injury from Galactus. Also i see no reason why Thanos wouldnt feat death or dying. The whole i want to die came much after this series and certainly seem forgotten atm.
Citizen Bane correctly identified iirc. Could you be more specific in regards to the celestial boost. The handbooks also state Thanos as the most powerful eternal and if iirc state he as the superior energy wielder. I believe is surpassing other eternals is referrenced in Ironman 55 as well marvel the end and or the mini. Im going off memory right now so I apologize any non specific issue numbers. Thanos has stated in convo w/ warlock that death no longer holds any mystery for them due to both having died before. Combined w/his history the notion of him fearing either or is so far out of character its absurd. When Drax killed him his responce to seeing his own heart was to say interesting. Thanos has mocked and even disrespected Death.
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
A couple of things have to be dealt with here.
First, DB/Z/GT characters generally have an appalling lack of quantifiable speed feats and, more importantly, they have 0 quantifiable in battle speed feats. Most people just watched the anime and thought, "Wow, these people look like they're moving really fast, therefore, they must be really fast." I'm not saying that you're doing this now, I'm only saying that this mentality by other people has created a sort of myth regarding the speed of DB/Z/GT characters. The only evidence that people arguing on behalf of DB/Z/GT characters seem to be able to provide for the actual speed of these characters is indirect evidence like, Roshi's and Piccolo's moon bust were FTL therefore DB/Z/GT characters have FTL reaction/combat speed. But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example.
Gallery
If you say that DB/Z/GT characters are FTL then it seems like you must conclude that Dabura's spit is also FTL. But this seems utterly ridiculous. And this is in the Buu Saga. Plus, it happens again here.
Gallery
The only thing we're able to tell about the speed of DB/Z characters based on the canon manga is that they're massively hypersonic, and if you're being extremely generous then they might be relativistic (10% light speed). But that's about it.
Second, speed isn't even the most important thing in a fight. We've pretty much reached a general consensus here that classic Thanos outclasses Piccolo at the very least in terms of durability and endurance. Thanos has taken planet busting explosions unfazed and without shields. So, even if Piccolo is going to be tossing around planet busters there's no guarantee that he'll be able to take Thanos down just from that.
Third, add to this the versatility of Thanos's skill set and this makes it even more difficult for Piccolo to win this fight. TP + energy/matter manipulation clearly tips the scale in Thanos's favor.
Edit: I want it to be clear that even though the OP specifies end of GT Piccolo, end of GT Piccolo is essentially featless IIRC.
Citizen Bane correctly identified iirc. Could you be more specific in regards to the celestial boost. The handbooks also state Thanos as the most powerful eternal and if iirc state he as the superior energy wielder. I believe is surpassing other eternals is referrenced in Ironman 55 as well marvel the end and or the mini. Im going off memory right now so I apologize any non specific issue numbers.
Once you are selected as Eternal Prime you get a boost in your power level, which is thanks to the celestial engine.Athena had extra powers like matter manipulation when she was an eternal prime.
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
A couple of things have to be dealt with here.
First, DB/Z/GT characters generally have an appalling lack of quantifiable speed feats and, more importantly, they have 0 quantifiable in battle speed feats. Most people just watched the anime and thought, "Wow, these people look like they're moving really fast, therefore, they must be really fast." I'm not saying that you're doing this now, I'm only saying that this mentality by other people has created a sort of myth regarding the speed of DB/Z/GT characters. The only evidence that people arguing on behalf of DB/Z/GT characters seem to be able to provide for the actual speed of these characters is indirect evidence like, Roshi's and Piccolo's moon bust were FTL therefore DB/Z/GT characters have FTL reaction/combat speed. But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example.
Gallery
If you say that DB/Z/GT characters are FTL then it seems like you must conclude that Dabura's spit is also FTL. But this seems utterly ridiculous. And this is in the Buu Saga. Plus, it happens again here.
Gallery
The only thing we're able to tell about the speed of DB/Z characters based on the canon manga is that they're massively hypersonic, and if you're being extremely generous then they might be relativistic (10% light speed). But that's about it.
Second, speed isn't even the most important thing in a fight. We've pretty much reached a general consensus here that classic Thanos outclasses Piccolo at the very least in terms of durability and endurance. Thanos has taken planet busting explosions unfazed and without shields. So, even if Piccolo is going to be tossing around planet busters there's no guarantee that he'll be able to take Thanos down just from that.
Third, add to this the versatility of Thanos's skill set and this makes it even more difficult for Piccolo to win this fight. TP + energy/matter manipulation clearly tips the scale in Thanos's favor.
Edit: I want it to be clear that even though the OP specifies end of GT Piccolo, end of GT Piccolo is essentially featless IIRC.
Yet you want to refute with an indirect evidence.
Whatever, match1 speed would be enough for Thanos to never catch Piccolo, while he can hit him anywhere he want from morning to midnight.
Thanos clearly stomps. How could anyone argue otherwise? Thanos can bust planets with the shock wave of his punches, can take attacks from Odin (and this is without his force fields), has TP, energy/matter manipulation, etc. Piccolo will die a horrible death after being tortured.
This. Thanos is way too powerful an energy manipulator.
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
A couple of things have to be dealt with here.
First, DB/Z/GT characters generally have an appalling lack of quantifiable speed feats and, more importantly, they have 0 quantifiable in battle speed feats. Most people just watched the anime and thought, "Wow, these people look like they're moving really fast, therefore, they must be really fast." I'm not saying that you're doing this now, I'm only saying that this mentality by other people has created a sort of myth regarding the speed of DB/Z/GT characters. The only evidence that people arguing on behalf of DB/Z/GT characters seem to be able to provide for the actual speed of these characters is indirect evidence like, Roshi's and Piccolo's moon bust were FTL therefore DB/Z/GT characters have FTL reaction/combat speed. But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example.
Gallery
If you say that DB/Z/GT characters are FTL then it seems like you must conclude that Dabura's spit is also FTL. But this seems utterly ridiculous. And this is in the Buu Saga. Plus, it happens again here.
Gallery
The only thing we're able to tell about the speed of DB/Z characters based on the canon manga is that they're massively hypersonic, and if you're being extremely generous then they might be relativistic (10% light speed). But that's about it.
Second, speed isn't even the most important thing in a fight. We've pretty much reached a general consensus here that classic Thanos outclasses Piccolo at the very least in terms of durability and endurance. Thanos has taken planet busting explosions unfazed and without shields. So, even if Piccolo is going to be tossing around planet busters there's no guarantee that he'll be able to take Thanos down just from that.
Third, add to this the versatility of Thanos's skill set and this makes it even more difficult for Piccolo to win this fight. TP + energy/matter manipulation clearly tips the scale in Thanos's favor.
Edit: I want it to be clear that even though the OP specifies end of GT Piccolo, end of GT Piccolo is essentially featless IIRC.
Yet you want to refute with an indirect evidence.
Whatever, match1 speed would be enough for Thanos to never catch Piccolo, while he can hit him anywhere he want from morning to midnight.
How is this indirect evidence? You mad bro? LOL! I have on-panel evidence of Z-fighters not being able to dodge Dabura's spit. If they were really as fast as people say that wouldn't happen. And the fight between Gohan and Dabura is even worse, because Supreme Kai is able to get out an entire sentence before Dabura's spit hits Gohan, indicating that the spit wasn't going that fast, and Gohan was still unable to dodge and he just barely got his hand up in time to block it.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
@Killemall: Do you have anything to support that? Im just curious cause I ve never seen or heard of anything like that before.
Pick up any issue from Eternal volume 1 you can see in detail there. There is also a small fight where Ikaris was totally helpless against Thena as Eternal Prime, but when fought on equal footing without her Eternal Prime boost, Ikaris easily won.
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
A couple of things have to be dealt with here.
First, DB/Z/GT characters generally have an appalling lack of quantifiable speed feats and, more importantly, they have 0 quantifiable in battle speed feats. Most people just watched the anime and thought, "Wow, these people look like they're moving really fast, therefore, they must be really fast." I'm not saying that you're doing this now, I'm only saying that this mentality by other people has created a sort of myth regarding the speed of DB/Z/GT characters. The only evidence that people arguing on behalf of DB/Z/GT characters seem to be able to provide for the actual speed of these characters is indirect evidence like, Roshi's and Piccolo's moon bust were FTL therefore DB/Z/GT characters have FTL reaction/combat speed. But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example.
Gallery
If you say that DB/Z/GT characters are FTL then it seems like you must conclude that Dabura's spit is also FTL. But this seems utterly ridiculous. And this is in the Buu Saga. Plus, it happens again here.
Gallery
The only thing we're able to tell about the speed of DB/Z characters based on the canon manga is that they're massively hypersonic, and if you're being extremely generous then they might be relativistic (10% light speed). But that's about it.
Second, speed isn't even the most important thing in a fight. We've pretty much reached a general consensus here that classic Thanos outclasses Piccolo at the very least in terms of durability and endurance. Thanos has taken planet busting explosions unfazed and without shields. So, even if Piccolo is going to be tossing around planet busters there's no guarantee that he'll be able to take Thanos down just from that.
Third, add to this the versatility of Thanos's skill set and this makes it even more difficult for Piccolo to win this fight. TP + energy/matter manipulation clearly tips the scale in Thanos's favor.
Edit: I want it to be clear that even though the OP specifies end of GT Piccolo, end of GT Piccolo is essentially featless IIRC.
Yet you want to refute with an indirect evidence.
Whatever, match1 speed would be enough for Thanos to never catch Piccolo, while he can hit him anywhere he want from morning to midnight.
How is this indirect evidence? You mad bro? LOL! I have on-panel evidence of Z-fighters not being able to dodge Dabura's spit. If they were really as fast as people say that wouldn't happen. And the fight between Gohan and Dabura is even worse, because Supreme Kai is able to get out an entire sentence before Dabura's spit hits Gohan, indicating that the spit wasn't going that fast, and Gohan was still unable to dodge and he just barely got his hand up in time to block it.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
Yeah, stupidity. It's coming from you.
"You mad bro?" - From what do you think that? Or you just tell that back again because I told that you too? Grow up.
" How is this indirect evidence?" Okay, let me explain you mr.philosophy :)
Krillin and Roshi were fighting, after they shown the audience how they did, there was given time: 1/4 sec IIRC. That is direct evidence for their speed, because time given. Previously when Roshi began to train Goku and Krillin they measured how fast were they. 100m X sec. Time and distance, direct evidence. Piccolo moonbust, distance known, time...seemed instantly, and later he got stronger, but whatever, suppose that was 1sec. He shot Raditz then and Raditz dodged it. This is indirect evidence too. We just can suppose Piccolo didn't want to die in his every battle, so shot sometimes a full speed, full powered blast(like makankosanpo).
The split: There wasn't either time and distance given. This is indirect. But you suppose on the first two scan the split must be slow, because when we split that slow. Also you suppose on the second two scanSo you suppose on the second two scan, the split flew slower than a normal human split, because after Dabura was splitting Kaioshin telling an entire sentence. Around 3sec. Worse than indirect evidence. This is an element of both manga and comic, while they are speking at very fast speeds and such.
About the first two scan, that scene was considered PIS, not because the reaction speed. Dabura wanted to "kill" the weaklings, that's why he split on them. Krillin ok, but Piccolo was stronger than them in base.
Also you said that: "But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example." If something contradict with the series, that called PIS. Like, they were capable to catch/avoid bullets in the db, then Dabura's split either landed because fast+surprise attack or PISception. The talking while the split fly is just ridiculous as argument, it's a show and you can find like that in every action book.
Piccolo was fighting and getting the better of Freeze in a high speed combat who is a casual planet buster, i would say he does.
A couple of things have to be dealt with here.
First, DB/Z/GT characters generally have an appalling lack of quantifiable speed feats and, more importantly, they have 0 quantifiable in battle speed feats. Most people just watched the anime and thought, "Wow, these people look like they're moving really fast, therefore, they must be really fast." I'm not saying that you're doing this now, I'm only saying that this mentality by other people has created a sort of myth regarding the speed of DB/Z/GT characters. The only evidence that people arguing on behalf of DB/Z/GT characters seem to be able to provide for the actual speed of these characters is indirect evidence like, Roshi's and Piccolo's moon bust were FTL therefore DB/Z/GT characters have FTL reaction/combat speed. But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example.
Gallery
If you say that DB/Z/GT characters are FTL then it seems like you must conclude that Dabura's spit is also FTL. But this seems utterly ridiculous. And this is in the Buu Saga. Plus, it happens again here.
Gallery
The only thing we're able to tell about the speed of DB/Z characters based on the canon manga is that they're massively hypersonic, and if you're being extremely generous then they might be relativistic (10% light speed). But that's about it.
Second, speed isn't even the most important thing in a fight. We've pretty much reached a general consensus here that classic Thanos outclasses Piccolo at the very least in terms of durability and endurance. Thanos has taken planet busting explosions unfazed and without shields. So, even if Piccolo is going to be tossing around planet busters there's no guarantee that he'll be able to take Thanos down just from that.
Third, add to this the versatility of Thanos's skill set and this makes it even more difficult for Piccolo to win this fight. TP + energy/matter manipulation clearly tips the scale in Thanos's favor.
Edit: I want it to be clear that even though the OP specifies end of GT Piccolo, end of GT Piccolo is essentially featless IIRC.
Yet you want to refute with an indirect evidence.
Whatever, match1 speed would be enough for Thanos to never catch Piccolo, while he can hit him anywhere he want from morning to midnight.
How is this indirect evidence? You mad bro? LOL! I have on-panel evidence of Z-fighters not being able to dodge Dabura's spit. If they were really as fast as people say that wouldn't happen. And the fight between Gohan and Dabura is even worse, because Supreme Kai is able to get out an entire sentence before Dabura's spit hits Gohan, indicating that the spit wasn't going that fast, and Gohan was still unable to dodge and he just barely got his hand up in time to block it.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
Yeah, stupidity. It's coming from you.
"You mad bro?" - From what do you think that? Or you just tell that back again because I told that you too? Grow up.
" How is this indirect evidence?" Okay, let me explain you mr.philosophy :)
Krillin and Roshi were fighting, after they shown the audience how they did, there was given time: 1/4 sec IIRC. That is direct evidence for their speed, because time given. Previously when Roshi began to train Goku and Krillin they measured how fast were they. 100m X sec. Time and distance, direct evidence. Piccolo moonbust, distance known, time...seemed instantly, and later he got stronger, but whatever, suppose that was 1sec. He shot Raditz then and Raditz dodged it. This is indirect evidence too. We just can suppose Piccolo didn't want to die in his every battle, so shot sometimes a full speed, full powered blast(like makankosanpo).
The split: There wasn't either time and distance given. This is indirect. But you suppose on the first two scan the split must be slow, because when we split that slow. Also you suppose on the second two scanSo you suppose on the second two scan, the split flew slower than a normal human split, because after Dabura was splitting Kaioshin telling an entire sentence. Around 3sec. Worse than indirect evidence. This is an element of both manga and comic, while they are speking at very fast speeds and such.
About the first two scan, that scene was considered PIS, not because the reaction speed. Dabura wanted to "kill" the weaklings, that's why he split on them. Krillin ok, but Piccolo was stronger than them in base.
Also you said that: "But this is contradicted by a whole host of evidence from the anime and manga. Take a look at this, for example." If something contradict with the series, that called PIS. Like, they were capable to catch/avoid bullets in the db, then Dabura's split either landed because fast+surprise attack or PISception. The talking while the split fly is just ridiculous as argument, it's a show and you can find like that in every action book.
How is this indirect evidence? You mad bro? LOL! I have on-panel evidence of Z-fighters not being able to dodge Dabura's spit. If they were really as fast as people say that wouldn't happen. And the fight between Gohan and Dabura is even worse, because Supreme Kai is able to get out an entire sentence before Dabura's spit hits Gohan, indicating that the spit wasn't going that fast, and Gohan was still unable to dodge and he just barely got his hand up in time to block it.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
Oh come on. What are you arguing, that Krillin and Piccolo are slower than peak humans? Dodging spit is hardly a superhuman feat, assuming you are arguing that's how fast Dabura's spit moves. Of course, normal spit would probably move too fast to speak a full sentence before it landed either, so are you arguing that it is even slower than normal?
Sorry, but there's no way you will convince anyone that the Z-fighters do not have at least some level of superhuman speed and reaction time, which means evading normal spit should be child's play. So yeah, Dabura's spit was most likely quite fast, as silly as that might sound to you.
Speaking phrases and sentences in-between an attack is done all the time in comics. I'm pretty sure I could find a scan of Spiderman or even a street leveler getting out a sentence in the time it took a bullet to hit its mark, which is obviously impossible for people of that level (should be impossible altogether, what with bullets traveling faster than sound). But how often do you see people argue that bullets in comics must move slowly because people can have conversations inbetween shots?
How is this indirect evidence? You mad bro? LOL! I have on-panel evidence of Z-fighters not being able to dodge Dabura's spit. If they were really as fast as people say that wouldn't happen. And the fight between Gohan and Dabura is even worse, because Supreme Kai is able to get out an entire sentence before Dabura's spit hits Gohan, indicating that the spit wasn't going that fast, and Gohan was still unable to dodge and he just barely got his hand up in time to block it.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
Oh come on. What are you arguing, that Krillin and Piccolo are slower than peak humans? Dodging spit is hardly a superhuman feat, assuming you are arguing that's how fast Dabura's spit moves. Of course, normal spit would probably move too fast to speak a full sentence before it landed either, so are you arguing that it is even slower than normal?
Sorry, but there's no way you will convince anyone that the Z-fighters do not have at least some level of superhuman speed and reaction time, which means evading normal spit should be child's play. So yeah, Dabura's spit was most likely quite fast, as silly as that might sound to you.
Speaking phrases and sentences in-between an attack is done all the time in comics. I'm pretty sure I could find a scan of Spiderman or even a street leveler getting out a sentence in the time it took a bullet to hit its mark, which is obviously impossible for people of that level (should be impossible altogether, what with bullets traveling faster than sound). But how often do you see people argue that bullets in comics must move slowly because people can have conversations inbetween shots?
No, I'm simply pointing out inconsistencies with respect to reaction speed in the manga and sardonically poking fun at people who claim that Raditz was FTL because of a dub error or that DB/Z/GT characters have FTL reaction speed because it looked like Piccolo blew up the moon really fast. But the fact of the matter is this: In the canon DB/Z manga there are 0 in-battle quantifiable speed feats. The only thing people have is indirect evidence like Roshi or Piccolo's moon bust or the fact that Frieza's attack is called light prison or the fact that Gotenks flew around the Earth (in an unspecified amount of time). People won't accept it, but they must. The manga is sometimes ridiculously inconsistent with respect to in-battle speed, like this spitting incident, for example, or a whole host of other energy attacks that seem really slow but characters aren't able to dodge them. There is no evidence that DB/Z/GT characters are anything other than massively hypersonic. The available evidence suggests that they aren't relativistic (10% light speed), they aren't light speed, and they aren't FTL. The only thing you can say about the combat/reaction speed of DB/Z/GT characters is that they kick and punch really fast, at several thousand times the speed of sound.
Alright, you want some more evidence? Well, I've got more.
Gallery
In the two scans above, Goku explains what the Shukidan Ido a.k.a. Instant Transmission is and then demonstrates its use. In one panel Goku disappears and in the very next panel Goku re-appears. At first Vegeta is skeptical but then they recognize that Goku has on Roshi's sunglasses. Yamcha remarks that Roshi's house is over 10,000 km away. Let's be generous and say that Roshi's house is 11,000 km away. And in the second scan Goku is gone long enough that Bulma, a less than peak human, recognizes his absence. But let's be generous and say that Goku was gone for .5 seconds or 1/2 a second. Let's do some calculations.
The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second. In order to convert this to kilometers, we have to divide by 1,000: 299,792,458/1,000 = 299,792.458 kilometers per second. Goku's round trip to Roshi's house was ~22,000 kilometers (11,000 km each way). So, how many round trips could light make? Well, we need to divide 299,792.458 by 22,000, which = 13.627. So, light can travel a 22,000 km round trip 13.627 times in 1 second. But we need to know how many times light can make this round trip in half a second (because this is how long I'm assuming it took Goku to make this round trip). So, we just divide 13.627 by 2, which = 6.8134 times. In other words, in 1/2 a second light can make this 22,000 km round trip 6.8 times.
So, the question is, why would Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, Piccolo, Yamcha, etc. be impressed by the Shukidan Ido if DBZ characters were light speed? Even if DB/Z characters could sustain light speed for 1/13th of a second they could have easily duplicated Goku's feat. Are we to believe that DBZ characters really are light speed, but that they can't sustain light speed for 1/13th of a second? Even when I use extremely generous calculations for this feat, it's clear that DB/Z characters are no where near light speed even at the beginning of the Cell Saga.
Now, let me say this: this is not a calculation for the speed of DBZ characters, based on this scan we can't know that. The only thing we can know though is that other top tier characters like Piccolo and Vegeta are impressed by Goku's speed, which implies that they aren't capable of duplicating this feat with their speed.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
Yeah, stupidity. It's coming from you.
"You mad bro?" - From what do you think that? Or you just tell that back again because I told that you too? Grow up.
" How is this indirect evidence?" Okay, let me explain you mr.philosophy :)
Knock it off...
What does it mean?
@Freefa11 said:
@uberhikari said:
How is this indirect evidence? You mad bro? LOL! I have on-panel evidence of Z-fighters not being able to dodge Dabura's spit. If they were really as fast as people say that wouldn't happen. And the fight between Gohan and Dabura is even worse, because Supreme Kai is able to get out an entire sentence before Dabura's spit hits Gohan, indicating that the spit wasn't going that fast, and Gohan was still unable to dodge and he just barely got his hand up in time to block it.
You know what that smell is? That's the smell of evidence! LOL!
Oh come on. What are you arguing, that Krillin and Piccolo are slower than peak humans? Dodging spit is hardly a superhuman feat, assuming you are arguing that's how fast Dabura's spit moves. Of course, normal spit would probably move too fast to speak a full sentence before it landed either, so are you arguing that it is even slower than normal?
Sorry, but there's no way you will convince anyone that the Z-fighters do not have at least some level of superhuman speed and reaction time, which means evading normal spit should be child's play. So yeah, Dabura's spit was most likely quite fast, as silly as that might sound to you.
Speaking phrases and sentences in-between an attack is done all the time in comics. I'm pretty sure I could find a scan of Spiderman or even a street leveler getting out a sentence in the time it took a bullet to hit its mark, which is obviously impossible for people of that level (should be impossible altogether, what with bullets traveling faster than sound). But how often do you see people argue that bullets in comics must move slowly because people can have conversations inbetween shots?
Or when speedsters talking to each other while run in city. They would run into a wall after a half word lol.
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