I don't know if this mean much, but it is posted from Marvel.com
Phoenix
Shuma-Gorath
From what I have seen in this stats, The Phoenix Force is much more powerful than Shuma-Gorath. Also, Fans are over-estimating Shuma-Gorath based on the difference of the official ratings and fan votes. While fans do the opposite for the Phoenix Force.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Skhaal/Lol.png Boom, by that logic Mephisto would knock her skinny white ass around. Lol, welcome to this debate, and also I will just lightly say that the feats are by no means inflated, for anyone who had read the arcs he's been in. The only time the Phoenix has really proved she was powerful was the Dark Phoenix saga, that's it. Also the Phoenix is clearly not Jean Grey, Jean Grey proved as host, the Phoenix clearly exists independent of Jean since it is in Rachel atm, and in alternate universes has taken hosts other than Jean, such as Colossus' dead body and changing it into a female. But since this is the raw force, I believe Shuma-Gorath's vast magic powers and leech-like abilities will consume the force and turn it's sights on the Uni-force.
Jean is the Phoenix in the flesh, and is a piece of it, it has other pieces that is sends out to take other hosts because there is a piece of it in every universe, the Phoenix Force proper is in the White Hot Room and that is what Jean has now become one with, she is an avatar which by definition is the physical representation of something of a god-like nature. How many times must Marvel state they are the same and that was the original concept when Phoenix was created for people to stop jumping to their own conclusions. Death already told Jean why Rachel would have the Phoenix, when it told her that her children would inherit it, Death also explains to Jean that she and the Phoenix are and have always been, way before HCT or Endsong.
body and soul she belongs to Phoenix and the two of them are not mutually exclusive it is hers by right Death tells her after the Dark Phoenix Saga and, HCT and Endsong cement that.
So the Phoenix is now like the Darkness or the Angelus from Top Cow comics? Also what does it matter? But by that logic, the Phoenix force has always been Jean...and how old is Jean now? I was always under the impression that it played a role since the big bang, but maybe it didn't exist until Jean Grey was born? Sounds like a big plot hole to me, or perhaps I'm just reading into your argument too closely. So then, tell me, if Jean Grey, as the Phoenix force, is so godly, then why has she been defeated a plethora of times? These ARE consistent losses, Shuma-Gorath has only ever once been close to defeated by another entity [Seeing as Dr.Strange/Arioch defeated Shuma with his own power] was Death, however there was no visual confirmation on this, and he was shortly thereafter seen by the Invaders Now! [But the story very clearly took place modern age].
But anyhow, will you next now argue that the Phoenix Force when using Jean as a conduit or focusing point, is more restricted through her? Do you or others now seek to use that as an ever-open doorway to open and shut when it's most beneficial? I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and hope you will not, but considering you read much more of the Phoenix than I can stomach, I'll assume you are a person of hardy constitution - and stubbornness, and if I have assessed most Phoenix fans correctly, may apply to yourself unless I'm proven wrong.
Then again, you are just correcting a detail I was ignorant to, and for that I thank you. I only feel a mild bit of disgust that the Phoenix gets so many storylines when somewhere out in the vast Multiverse, out favorite Freelance Peacekeeping Agent is sitting in limbo, and waiting to be used once more. The White Hot Room, as you've mentioned, is none too impressive, Jamie Braddock warped that, but yet many contest he didn't when it's clearly illustrated he is and no narration proves that he isn't. So the question is can Jean Grey take on the true god of Chaos and Fear? Can she take on the dark god which no doubt Suma-Ket and his ilk once worshipped? In short I believe no, she'd put up a fight, but for a creature that toys with worlds like they were puppets, from vast distances away, chances are the Phoenix, as the myth goes, will be doomed to rebirth itself anew.
I don't know if this mean much, but it is posted from Marvel.com
Phoenix
Shuma-Gorath
From what I have seen in this stats, The Phoenix Force is much more powerful than Shuma-Gorath. Also, Fans are over-estimating Shuma-Gorath based on the difference of the official ratings and fan votes. While fans do the opposite for the Phoenix Force.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Skhaal/Lol.png Boom, by that logic Mephisto would knock her skinny white ass around. Lol, welcome to this debate, and also I will just lightly say that the feats are by no means inflated, for anyone who had read the arcs he's been in. The only time the Phoenix has really proved she was powerful was the Dark Phoenix saga, that's it. Also the Phoenix is clearly not Jean Grey, Jean Grey proved as host, the Phoenix clearly exists independent of Jean since it is in Rachel atm, and in alternate universes has taken hosts other than Jean, such as Colossus' dead body and changing it into a female. But since this is the raw force, I believe Shuma-Gorath's vast magic powers and leech-like abilities will consume the force and turn it's sights on the Uni-force.
Jean is the Phoenix in the flesh, and is a piece of it, it has other pieces that is sends out to take other hosts because there is a piece of it in every universe, the Phoenix Force proper is in the White Hot Room and that is what Jean has now become one with, she is an avatar which by definition is the physical representation of something of a god-like nature. How many times must Marvel state they are the same and that was the original concept when Phoenix was created for people to stop jumping to their own conclusions. Death already told Jean why Rachel would have the Phoenix, when it told her that her children would inherit it, Death also explains to Jean that she and the Phoenix are and have always been, way before HCT or Endsong.
body and soul she belongs to Phoenix and the two of them are not mutually exclusive it is hers by right Death tells her after the Dark Phoenix Saga and, HCT and Endsong cement that.
So the Phoenix is now like the Darkness or the Angelus from Top Cow comics? Also what does it matter? But by that logic, the Phoenix force has always been Jean...and how old is Jean now? I was always under the impression that it played a role since the big bang, but maybe it didn't exist until Jean Grey was born? Sounds like a big plot hole to me, or perhaps I'm just reading into your argument too closely. So then, tell me, if Jean Grey, as the Phoenix force, is so godly, then why has she been defeated a plethora of times? These ARE consistent losses, Shuma-Gorath has only ever once been close to defeated by another entity [Seeing as Dr.Strange/Arioch defeated Shuma with his own power] was Death, however there was no visual confirmation on this, and he was shortly thereafter seen by the Invaders Now! [But the story very clearly took place modern age].
But anyhow, will you next now argue that the Phoenix Force when using Jean as a conduit or focusing point, is more restricted through her? Do you or others now seek to use that as an ever-open doorway to open and shut when it's most beneficial? I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and hope you will not, but considering you read much more of the Phoenix than I can stomach, I'll assume you are a person of hardy constitution - and stubbornness, and if I have assessed most Phoenix fans correctly, may apply to yourself unless I'm proven wrong.
Then again, you are just correcting a detail I was ignorant to, and for that I thank you. I only feel a mild bit of disgust that the Phoenix gets so many storylines when somewhere out in the vast Multiverse, out favorite Freelance Peacekeeping Agent is sitting in limbo, and waiting to be used once more. The White Hot Room, as you've mentioned, is none too impressive, Jamie Braddock warped that, but yet many contest he didn't when it's clearly illustrated he is and no narration proves that he isn't. So the question is can Jean Grey take on the true god of Chaos and Fear? Can she take on the dark god which no doubt Suma-Ket and his ilk once worshipped? In short I believe no, she'd put up a fight, but for a creature that toys with worlds like they were puppets, from vast distances away, chances are the Phoenix, as the myth goes, will be doomed to rebirth itself anew.
the Phoenix did play a part in the big bang, as Death explained the primal force which has known to us as the Phoenix is based more on concept, Jeans imagination supposedly shaped into a form that her mind could comprehend and that was a Phoenix, even when it appeared to her it was not in the form of a firebird, not until she burst free from water did it call itself Phoenix to symbolize her "resurrection". The Phoenix does not have any consistent losses, with the exception of the non-canon Mutant X crap that even Havok forgot I can't think of anything, it has been bfred (just like Shuma has been) in another non-canon universe. And even still just like Shuma the Phoenix has been seen after any of these so-called defeats.
I have never argued that Jean limits the Phoenix, she is an important piece of it and makes it whole and since it has no sentience of it's own, it is most dangerous when with the avatar or bonded to a host due to human passions and how unpredictable they are. i won't even go into proving you wrong about your opinion of me or any other "phoenix fan" as you say, because it's a fruitless venture and something I really don't care about, especially since I don't know you.
You being unimpressed by the White Hot Room is something else that is of no import to me, you understanding of the way the White Hot Room works is. He can affect things from dimensions away from his realm and she can absorb whole universes into her realm and then decide there fate with no interference from anything in creation. It is the nexus of all realities and you are always there waiting for yourself to arrive, this in and of itself explains how Phoenix and Jean are one and always have been, and how a mutant can be a cosmic force that predates her own creation, she is a part of the Phoenix and has always been in the White Hot Room where time and space are not concepts, but merely tools that the Phoenix can use to interact with other realms. Jamie Braddock warping the white hot room as you call it is a whole different issue, as he only pull strings and Rachel and Betsy were teleported, he only was able to find Betsy because of her link to Brian, next we see him and then strings are pulled, the crystal which is how they accessed the white hot room to being with is what they were pulled into. Jamie has the ability to warp reality and protected his sister from all forms of alteration from mind to reality, yet Wanda was able to warp her with no effort, the only thing that protected her from the Chaoswave (a force even Jamie could not stop) was being transported into the White Hot Room. Phoenix is not just responsible for the big bang of a single universe, she/it is the power of creation that is sometimes called the Phoenix depending on what reality it is, but all in all is the creators passion to create and destroy, TOAA created everything in Marvel and that would include Shuma.
I don't know if this mean much, but it is posted from Marvel.com
Phoenix
Shuma-Gorath
From what I have seen in this stats, The Phoenix Force is much more powerful than Shuma-Gorath. Also, Fans are over-estimating Shuma-Gorath based on the difference of the official ratings and fan votes. While fans do the opposite for the Phoenix Force.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Skhaal/Lol.png Boom, by that logic Mephisto would knock her skinny white ass around. Lol, welcome to this debate, and also I will just lightly say that the feats are by no means inflated, for anyone who had read the arcs he's been in. The only time the Phoenix has really proved she was powerful was the Dark Phoenix saga, that's it. Also the Phoenix is clearly not Jean Grey, Jean Grey proved as host, the Phoenix clearly exists independent of Jean since it is in Rachel atm, and in alternate universes has taken hosts other than Jean, such as Colossus' dead body and changing it into a female. But since this is the raw force, I believe Shuma-Gorath's vast magic powers and leech-like abilities will consume the force and turn it's sights on the Uni-force.
Jean is the Phoenix in the flesh, and is a piece of it, it has other pieces that is sends out to take other hosts because there is a piece of it in every universe, the Phoenix Force proper is in the White Hot Room and that is what Jean has now become one with, she is an avatar which by definition is the physical representation of something of a god-like nature. How many times must Marvel state they are the same and that was the original concept when Phoenix was created for people to stop jumping to their own conclusions. Death already told Jean why Rachel would have the Phoenix, when it told her that her children would inherit it, Death also explains to Jean that she and the Phoenix are and have always been, way before HCT or Endsong.
body and soul she belongs to Phoenix and the two of them are not mutually exclusive it is hers by right Death tells her after the Dark Phoenix Saga and, HCT and Endsong cement that.
So the Phoenix is now like the Darkness or the Angelus from Top Cow comics? Also what does it matter? But by that logic, the Phoenix force has always been Jean...and how old is Jean now? I was always under the impression that it played a role since the big bang, but maybe it didn't exist until Jean Grey was born? Sounds like a big plot hole to me, or perhaps I'm just reading into your argument too closely. So then, tell me, if Jean Grey, as the Phoenix force, is so godly, then why has she been defeated a plethora of times? These ARE consistent losses, Shuma-Gorath has only ever once been close to defeated by another entity [Seeing as Dr.Strange/Arioch defeated Shuma with his own power] was Death, however there was no visual confirmation on this, and he was shortly thereafter seen by the Invaders Now! [But the story very clearly took place modern age].
But anyhow, will you next now argue that the Phoenix Force when using Jean as a conduit or focusing point, is more restricted through her? Do you or others now seek to use that as an ever-open doorway to open and shut when it's most beneficial? I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and hope you will not, but considering you read much more of the Phoenix than I can stomach, I'll assume you are a person of hardy constitution - and stubbornness, and if I have assessed most Phoenix fans correctly, may apply to yourself unless I'm proven wrong.
Then again, you are just correcting a detail I was ignorant to, and for that I thank you. I only feel a mild bit of disgust that the Phoenix gets so many storylines when somewhere out in the vast Multiverse, out favorite Freelance Peacekeeping Agent is sitting in limbo, and waiting to be used once more. The White Hot Room, as you've mentioned, is none too impressive, Jamie Braddock warped that, but yet many contest he didn't when it's clearly illustrated he is and no narration proves that he isn't. So the question is can Jean Grey take on the true god of Chaos and Fear? Can she take on the dark god which no doubt Suma-Ket and his ilk once worshipped? In short I believe no, she'd put up a fight, but for a creature that toys with worlds like they were puppets, from vast distances away, chances are the Phoenix, as the myth goes, will be doomed to rebirth itself anew.
the Phoenix did play a part in the big bang, as Death explained the primal force which has known to us as the Phoenix is based more on concept, Jeans imagination supposedly shaped into a form that her mind could comprehend and that was a Phoenix, even when it appeared to her it was not in the form of a firebird, not until she burst free from water did it call itself Phoenix to symbolize her "resurrection". The Phoenix does not have any consistent losses, with the exception of the non-canon Mutant X crap that even Havok forgot I can't think of anything, it has been bfred (just like Shuma has been) in another non-canon universe.
And even still just like Shuma the Phoenix has been seen after any of these so-called defeats. I have never argued that Jean limits the Phoenix, she is an important piece of it and makes it whole and since it has no sentience of it's own, it is most dangerous when with the avatar or bonded to a host due to human passions and how unpredictable they are. i won't even go into proving you wrong about your opinion of me or any other "phoenix fan" as you say, because it's a fruitless venture and something I really don't care about, especially since I don't know you. You being unimpressed by the White Hot Room is something else that is of no import to me, you understanding of the way the White Hot Room works is.
He can affect things from dimensions away from his realm and she can absorb whole universes into her realm and then decide there fate with no interference from anything in creation. It is the nexus of all realities and you are always there waiting for yourself to arrive, this in and of itself explains how Phoenix and Jean are one and always have been, and how a mutant can be a cosmic force that predates her own creation, she is a part of the Phoenix and has always been in the White Hot Room where time and space are not concepts, but merely tools that the Phoenix can use to interact with other realms. Jamie Braddock warping the white hot room as you call it is a whole different issue, as he only pull strings and Rachel and Betsy were teleported, he only was able to find Betsy because of her link to Brian, next we see him and then strings are pulled, the crystal which is how they accessed the white hot room to being with is what they were pulled into. Jamie has the ability to warp reality and protected his sister from all forms of alteration from mind to reality, yet Wanda was able to warp her with no effort, the only thing that protected her from the Chaoswave (a force even Jamie could not stop) was being transported into the White Hot Room. Phoenix is not just responsible for the big bang of a single universe, she/it is the power of creation that is sometimes called the Phoenix depending on what reality it is, but all in all is the creators passion to create and destroy, TOAA created everything in Marvel and that would include Shuma.
In the case that I offended you, I just wanted to clearify that it was not my intent, also I'm not sure if I become excited or worrisome of these new posts, but anyhow onto point. As far as Phoenix defeats go, has Thor not defeated Phoenix? Has not the Alien Ship and a team of heroes defeated Phoenix? Or have these simply been retonned out of existence in order to give Phoenix more credibility? Which, to be fair, might not be quite as bad as Darkseid retconning his losses against Doomsday. If the aforementioned defeats did take place, then yes, it proves my point here. Moving on.
Nextly, I have seen many debates concerning Phoenix, though the worst I've witnessed have not been on Comicvine, but on other forums, suffice to say from what I read so far, I am enjoying your reply. You're awareness of the characters I've mentioned, and then some, impresses me. Though if you bring up the Chaos Wave, the fact that the LT couldn't stop it is immediately PIS, you know I think under that circumstance I might have actually preferred if an AU Jean Grey caused it as opposed to Scarlet Witch...
But this is a debate, an argument. Also TOAA only created everything in the Omniverse, and Shuma-Gorath's home dimension, his true age, and a number of other details have not been disclosed, who's to say he did't hail from outside the Omniverse? Or if he was, why was only one Shuma-Gorath made, is he some cosmic antithesis to some being we've yet to meet? Speculation of course, but since this is called Shuma-Gorath vs Jean Grey, let me focus on the evidence you have offered.
She's the power of the universe, huh? The Multiverse actually, judging by your claim, the only feat that can actually match up with that is powering up Merlyn's tower thing, I'm sure someone else knows what I'm talking about. As far as I know, there are tons of alternate universe Phoenix', some that are destroyed, some that are consumed, sure these are not the genuine article, but it provides sufficient evidence against the argument that the Phoenix is the end-all defacto force of death/destruction.
And no, the Phoenix is not the cause behind the Big Bang, there are four individuals whom that honor belongs to, many whom have already posted sufficient evidence already. I've seen this evidence offered many, many, times to know it is credible vs. the myth that the Phoenix played some role in the creation of creation.
As for Jamie, find me a scan which shows Jamie trying to stop the Chaos Wave? The guy runs around in speedos, I doubt he really cared about trying, he was too busy making a Fury replica. I think I got off topic here, eh, anyone have anything else to point out?
@Argantyr: if i may share my thoughts regarding this matter..
As far as Phoenix defeats go, has Thor not defeated Phoenix? Has not the Alien Ship and a team of heroes defeated Phoenix? Or have these simply been retonned out of existence in order to give Phoenix more credibility? Which, to be fair, might not be quite as bad as Darkseid retconning his losses against Doomsday. If the aforementioned defeats did take place, then yes, it proves my point here. Moving on.
Thor managed to return Rachel's attacks.. this is not a very important feat since Rachel does not even compare to Jean's level as Phoenix plus the fact that the PF itself greatly limited Rachel's use of the PF.. also, during this time, Rachel is under Mordred's control.. Mordred is a powerful sorcerer who serves the Elder God Chthon.. he also managed to counter the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak easily and planned to use Rachel's energies in an attempt to free his master..
No the team you are referring to did no defeated the Phoenix.. first of all, this happened during PHOENIX RESURRECTION: GENESIS AND REVELATIONS.. there it was revealed that it was the Phoenix who actually threw the alien ship of course into the Earth and Sun.. this was an essential part of their history since in doing so, their life-forms were granted the capabilities of possessing super powers.. also the team only managed to open a portal big enough to accommodate the PF with the aid of Amber Hunt, who served as the host of the Phoenix during the story arc.. she used her connection to the PF and the alien ship to open a portal that would send the PF in the same time where it threw the alien ship of course.. in essence, everything was complete PIS..
Nextly, I have seen many debates concerning Phoenix, though the worst I've witnessed have not been on Comicvine, but on other forums, suffice to say from what I read so far, I am enjoying your reply. You're awareness of the characters I've mentioned, and then some, impresses me. Though if you bring up the Chaos Wave, the fact that the LT couldn't stop it is immediately PIS, you know I think under that circumstance I might have actually preferred if an AU Jean Grey caused it as opposed to Scarlet Witch...
yes, it was weird why the Living Tribunal did not interfere during the Chaos Wave, but Roma, the Omniversal Guardian clearly stated and shown the extent of what the Chaos Wave can do.. Jean or more to say, the PF seemed to have the ability to protect anyone from it and from the powers of the Scarlet Witch in general..
But this is a debate, an argument. Also TOAA only created everything in the Omniverse, and Shuma-Gorath's home dimension, his true age, and a number of other details have not been disclosed, who's to say he did't hail from outside the Omniverse? Or if he was, why was only one Shuma-Gorath made, is he some cosmic antithesis to some being we've yet to meet? Speculation of course, but since this is called Shuma-Gorath vs Jean Grey, let me focus on the evidence you have offered.
Shuma-Gorath as a Class Three Demon is an extra-dimensional being hailed from outside the prime Marvel Universe and its alternate counterparts.. still, this can be applied to other inter-dimensional beings who's realm does not possess the conventional hierarchy of abstracts.. in essence that is the reason why most extra-dimensional beings such as Shuma-Gorath and Chthon possesses omnipotence and total control over their extra-dimensional realms.. Earth 616 is a single universe, alternate realities who still exhibits the same characteristics with the prime universe composes the multiverse.. realms which lack this hierarchy are realms outside the multiverse yet is still inside the omiverse.. the omniverse comprises every existing reality and planes of existence.. and so, Shuma-Gorath's realm maybe outside the multiverse, but it is still inside the omniverse.. every plane of existence in the omniverse can be via the M'kraan Crystal.. the M'kraan Crystal final and greatest guardian is the Phoenix Force and within it resides the White Hot Room which is the heart and core of Creation..
She's the power of the universe, huh? The Multiverse actually, judging by your claim, the only feat that can actually match up with that is powering up Merlyn's tower thing, I'm sure someone else knows what I'm talking about. As far as I know, there are tons of alternate universe Phoenix', some that are destroyed, some that are consumed, sure these are not the genuine article, but it provides sufficient evidence against the argument that the Phoenix is the end-all defacto force of death/destruction.
the Phoenix is the life force of the entire multiverse rolled inside one awesome entity.. she is the nexus of all psionic energy that has existed, is existing and will ever exist in all existing realities.. the first being in the current universe to make contact with the Phoenix was Feron, a fellow student of Merlyn under the tutelage of Necrom.. Feron touched the PF and used its power to project a tower across the multiverse so it could exist in all realities at the same time.. this created an energy matrix which Merlyn used as he later proclaimed himself a the Omniversal Guradian.. and yes, there are alternate manifestations of the PF in other realities.. but this is just part of the PF in its entirety.. that is why there is only one WPOTC in the multiverse/omniverse as the WPOTC possess total control over the PF and its manifestations across the omniverse.. and yes, the PF is the force of life-death-resurrection as shown on the Adventures of the X-Men which was actually the reality before the current universe and the same reality where Galen of Taa resided before he became Galactus.. it was the Phoenix who saved all life in existence from eternal damnation.. she also promised that everything will be re-created in a even more grander scale..
And no, the Phoenix is not the cause behind the Big Bang, there are four individuals whom that honor belongs to, many whom have already posted sufficient evidence already. I've seen this evidence offered many, many, times to know it is credible vs. the myth that the Phoenix played some role in the creation of creation.
contrary to popular belief, it was never said that the Phoenix cause the Big bang.. what was said is the Phoenix is the Big Bang.. and yes, it is true that there were many beings who have re-created the universe raging from Sise-Neg to the Alien entity, but in essence, these individuals just re-created what has already existed.. all of these feats still pertains to the 616 universe.. the PF existed even before the creation of the 616 universe and was the one who promised the creation of the 616 universe from the ashes of the old reality.. also, using a power vs being the power are two very different things.. the PF is not a corporeal being, a cosmic entity or an abstract.. it is a force.. the absence of its manifestation does not mean that the PF doesn't exist.. the PF is the force of life and yet there are realities with life in them where the PF in its firebird form did not manifest too..
As for Jamie, find me a scan which shows Jamie trying to stop the Chaos Wave? The guy runs around in speedos, I doubt he really cared about trying, he was too busy making a Fury replica. I think I got off topic here, eh, anyone have anything else to point out?
Jamie Braddock was the key in sealing of the Chaos Wave.. if it was not for him and if he did not destroy the Celestial Nulifier, Earth-616 may not even exist anymore.. thanks to what he did, Captain Britain still managed to have enough time to travel back to 616 and find the cause of the Chaos Wave.. also, if Jamie did not teleport Rachel and Betsy from the protective realm created by the holoemphatic crystal which possess an essence of Jean soul, they would ave never seen the decaying wound under the tower which cause the temporal disruption as it was Rachel who can initially see it..
also, if not for Jamie, Brian would have totally forgotten about his mission and would have been totally consumed by the Scarlet Witch's powers believing that he was the King of Great Britain.. ^_^
I do believe the Phoenix would win solo. The Uni-power is a non factor in the figth. Shuma Gorath is indeed one of the most powerful entities in the entire Multiverse, but the Phoenix Force is the most powerful entitie in the Multiverse as it was responsible for the creation of life itself in the entire Multiverse. It's powers are equal and may even surpass those of the Living Tribunal.
Phoenix is not a Multi-entity but exists as one in the entire multiverse, using avatars in each reality (such as the Living Tribunal enven though the Living Trbunal's avatars are created at is own image whereas the Phoenix Force grants a portion of it's powers to other beings).
.
The Phoenix Force is responsible for the creation of beings such as Galactus not only in the 616 Universe but in the entire multiverse.
Let's assume Shuma Gorath does defeat the Phoenix... it would simply revive her/itself again and continue to figth. Even if Shuma-Gorath could kill it for good, he himself would also die/disappear for good. The Phoenix Force is responsible for ALL LIFE (including Death) in the MULTIVERSE.
So, in a figth betewwen both, the sole thing Shuma-Gorath could actually do is stalemate the Phoenix Force.
"
Everything bolded in your post is wrong.
lol yes everything bolded was wrong.
IMO Shuma-Gorath could beat Phoenix one on one and could also beat the Uni-Power one on one. But together Shuma-Gorath would most definitely not come out on top. I mean Doctor Strange has bested Shuma-Gorath twice by himself. One of those times he even temporarily destroyed Shuma-Gorath. With Doctor Strange enhanced by the Uni-Power and Jean Grey (the strongest Phoenix avatar) together, they would definitely beat Shuma-Gorath. Heck Doctor Strange enhanced by the Uni-Power alone would be able to beat Shuma-Gorath seeing as he already has beaten him before without the Uni-Power. As long as the battle isn't in the Chaos Dimension that is :/
I do believe the Phoenix would win solo. The Uni-power is a non factor in the figth. Shuma Gorath is indeed one of the most powerful entities in the entire Multiverse, but the Phoenix Force is the most powerful entitie in the Multiverse as it was responsible for the creation of life itself in the entire Multiverse. It's powers are equal and may even surpass those of the Living Tribunal.
Phoenix is not a Multi-entity but exists as one in the entire multiverse, using avatars in each reality (such as the Living Tribunal enven though the Living Trbunal's avatars are created at is own image whereas the Phoenix Force grants a portion of it's powers to other beings).
.
The Phoenix Force is responsible for the creation of beings such as Galactus not only in the 616 Universe but in the entire multiverse.
Let's assume Shuma Gorath does defeat the Phoenix... it would simply revive her/itself again and continue to figth. Even if Shuma-Gorath could kill it for good, he himself would also die/disappear for good.The Phoenix Force is responsible for ALL LIFE (including Death) in the MULTIVERSE.
So, in a figth betewwen both, the sole thing Shuma-Gorath could actually do is stalemate the Phoenix Force.
LOL Responsible for the creation of life? As powerful as Living Tribunal? Phoenix Force is just a tool for salvation from external damnation a tool to give life and a tool for creation, but not the creator of life! Where did you get all of those shit dude? Besides, Phoenix Force is a force, it doesn't use avatar or so called M-body like Living Tribunal. Did you just made all of those up or you have your own publication of comics?
I think Shuma can handle this team. The Uni power shouldn't be a factor. It's the Phoenix Force that has all the power. But the Phoenix provides the engery that Shuma feeds on, not to mention Uni power as well. I say that the team can get sucked dry.
You can not suck the Phoenix Force dry... she will just tap on to all powers she can tap on to attack.
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