Parallax + ION vs Thanos + Eternity

HOG Ion and Hal Jordan ZH Parallax

Gallery

VS

Eternity and IG Thanos

Gallery

Who will win this fight?

Eternity is first one put easily. Then it's Hand of God ION and Zero Hour Parallax vs IG Thanos.

Interesting.

ION and Parallax could probably win but definitey with effort.

Can IG destroy and recreate an entire multiverse?

I'm going to give the edge to ION and Parallax

@King Saturn

What are your thoughts?

bump

@RoyHarperBLOW said:

Eternity is first one put easily. Then it's Hand of God ION and Zero Hour Parallax vs IG Thanos.

Interesting.

ION and Parallax could probably win but definitey with effort.

Can IG destroy and recreate an entire multiverse?

I'm going to give the edge to ION and Parallax

@King Saturn

What are your thoughts?

I heard it was said that if LT and an IG user were to fight it could threaten all multiverses. So I'm not sure.

Team 1. ZH Parallax had enough power to affect the entire multiverse. The IG only effects the universe it is from and Eternity is a universal being. Ion is also a dangerous threat to team 2.

Team 1 should win here.

Parallax should be able to take down Eternity. Since Parallax destroyed DC existence I think he can subdue Eternity who is somewhat of a embodiment of the Marvel existence.

Thanos vs Ion is hard to say. I simply don't see how Thanos can defeat Ion. Ion cannot be defeated by time travel and reality warping since he is capable of both at a high scale. Perhaps Thanos can overpower him with raw power, but I don't know how Thanos can subdue or contain someone who is essentially omnipresent. Ion can simply create more and more versions of himself which means the battle would technically be endless. On the other hand, there are ways for Ion to defeat Thanos. While the IG is powerful, it is limited by its user. This is clearly shown through the arc as different users had different levels of power with it. Ion can simply use his omnipresence to steal the IG before Thanos notices anything. Ion can also take the gauntlet from Thanos via time travel. If Ion maintains a version of himself in the present, then Thanos would not think Ion is doing anything in which case he would get tricked.

Just as a side note, the picture of Ion is not from Hand of God.

@eisjfiejss said:

Team 1 should win here.

Parallax should be able to take down Eternity. Since Parallax destroyed DC existence I think he can subdue Eternity who is somewhat of a embodiment of the Marvel existence.

Thanos vs Ion is hard to say. I simply don't see how Thanos can defeat Ion. Ion cannot be defeated by time travel and reality warping since he is capable of both at a high scale. Perhaps Thanos can overpower him with raw power, but I don't know how Thanos can subdue or contain someone who is essentially omnipresent. Ion can simply create more and more versions of himself which means the battle would technically be endless. On the other hand, there are ways for Ion to defeat Thanos. While the IG is powerful, it is limited by its user. This is clearly shown through the arc as different users had different levels of power with it. Ion can simply use his omnipresence to steal the IG before Thanos notices anything. Ion can also take the gauntlet from Thanos via time travel. If Ion maintains a version of himself in the present, then Thanos would not think Ion is doing anything in which case he would get tricked.

Just as a side note, the picture of Ion is not from Hand of God.

Not sure what you mean by "existence". Parallax didnt destroy all of the DC existence, he destroyed the universe, but not things outside of the universe such as Spectre or some of the other heroes . Eternity IIRC is the embodiment of all universes in the multiverse.

As far as ION defeating Thanos by means of time travel... the IG grants Thanos mastery over time, so that's not a logical option.

@Chronus said:

Team 1. ZH Parallax had enough power to affect the entire multiverse. The IG only effects the universe it is from and Eternity is a universal being. Ion is also a dangerous threat to team 2.

Parallax destroyed one universe. Lets not get too carried away people.

As far as the IG, we did only see Thanos use it to affect one universe, but we also know he used it to control Eternity, who is a multiversal entity.

Eternity wins just by invoking Oblivion like he did in issue "Dr. Strange #182"

.

@WillPayton said:

@eisjfiejss said:

Team 1 should win here.

Parallax should be able to take down Eternity. Since Parallax destroyed DC existence I think he can subdue Eternity who is somewhat of a embodiment of the Marvel existence.

Thanos vs Ion is hard to say. I simply don't see how Thanos can defeat Ion. Ion cannot be defeated by time travel and reality warping since he is capable of both at a high scale. Perhaps Thanos can overpower him with raw power, but I don't know how Thanos can subdue or contain someone who is essentially omnipresent. Ion can simply create more and more versions of himself which means the battle would technically be endless. On the other hand, there are ways for Ion to defeat Thanos. While the IG is powerful, it is limited by its user. This is clearly shown through the arc as different users had different levels of power with it. Ion can simply use his omnipresence to steal the IG before Thanos notices anything. Ion can also take the gauntlet from Thanos via time travel. If Ion maintains a version of himself in the present, then Thanos would not think Ion is doing anything in which case he would get tricked.

Just as a side note, the picture of Ion is not from Hand of God.

Not sure what you mean by "existence". Parallax didnt destroy all of the DC existence, he destroyed the universe, but not things outside of the universe such as Spectre or some of the other heroes . Eternity IIRC is the embodiment of all universes in the multiverse.

As far as ION defeating Thanos by means of time travel... the IG grants Thanos mastery over time, so that's not a logical option.

I don't think you see what I mean by time travel. Thanos may have mastery over time, but that doesn't mean he can't get tricked. Here is what I mean: at the start of the battle Ion maintains a version of himself in the future and sends another version of himself to the past. Thanos, seeing Ion in front of him, would not suspect that Ion is using time travel. Before he knows it Ion would've taken the Gauntlet away from him in the past which would affect the future. Thanos would not be able to use this against Ion for several reasons. First, Ion was shown throughout his arc to be nigh-omniscient, which means he would know all of Thanos's moves. Second, Ion can make it such that an effect on his past would not affect his future.

Regarding what you said about Parallax, I see what you mean. Nevertheless I do not believe Eternity has feats to be put on par with Parallax. Abraxas is the counterpart of Eternity, and I don't believe he has as good feats as Parallax.

@WillPayton said:

@Chronus said:

Team 1. ZH Parallax had enough power to affect the entire multiverse. The IG only effects the universe it is from and Eternity is a universal being. Ion is also a dangerous threat to team 2.

Parallax destroyed one universe. Lets not get too carried away people.

As far as the IG, we did only see Thanos use it to affect one universe, but we also know he used it to control Eternity, who is a multiversal entity.

Parallax may have only destroyed one universe, but he did it over and over again from the beginning of time. In other words, he destroyed the universe an infinite number of times (Since he did it at every segment of time).

@eisjfiejss said:

Parallax may have only destroyed one universe, but he did it over and over again from the beginning of time. In other words, he destroyed the universe an infinite number of times (Since he did it at every segment of time).

No, he just destroyed the universe. All of time, past, present, and future, are all just part of the one universe. Hal didnt destroy different alternate realities or anything, just the one he existed in. The wave of chronal energy he used moved through time, hence giving the effect of destroying the universe at different times... but it was just one universe.

@eisjfiejss said:

@WillPayton said:

I don't think you see what I mean by time travel. Thanos may have mastery over time, but that doesn't mean he can't get tricked. Here is what I mean: at the start of the battle Ion maintains a version of himself in the future and sends another version of himself to the past. Thanos, seeing Ion in front of him, would not suspect that Ion is using time travel. Before he knows it Ion would've taken the Gauntlet away from him in the past which would affect the future. Thanos would not be able to use this against Ion for several reasons. First, Ion was shown throughout his arc to be nigh-omniscient, which means he would know all of Thanos's moves. Second, Ion can make it such that an effect on his past would not affect his future.

The only reason Thanos was beaten during the IG stuff was because he allowed himself to be vulnerable. Having mastery over time means that he would indeed know what Ion was doing, whether in the future or past. I dont think either one can trick the other in such a way.

If anything it's Parallax that might be vulnerable to tricks like this. Hal had vast time travelling and manipulation powers, but he was by no means omniscient. This was proven by the fact that he didnt know what would happen during ZH and eventually lost when he depleted his energy and Green Arrow took a shot at him.

@laflux said:

I heard it was said that if LT and an IG user were to fight it could threaten all multiverses. So I'm not sure.

The statement being made by LT was "Such a confrontation would lay waste to this reality" which would oftentime imply 1 universe rather than the multiverse.

Here are the scan in question from Warlock and The Infinity Watch 19

@WillPayton said:

@eisjfiejss said:

Parallax may have only destroyed one universe, but he did it over and over again from the beginning of time. In other words, he destroyed the universe an infinite number of times (Since he did it at every segment of time).

No, he just destroyed the universe. All of time, past, present, and future, are all just part of the one universe. Hal didnt destroy different alternate realities or anything, just the one he existed in. The wave of chronal energy he used moved through time, hence giving the effect of destroying the universe at different times... but it was just one universe.

@eisjfiejss said:

@WillPayton said:

I don't think you see what I mean by time travel. Thanos may have mastery over time, but that doesn't mean he can't get tricked. Here is what I mean: at the start of the battle Ion maintains a version of himself in the future and sends another version of himself to the past. Thanos, seeing Ion in front of him, would not suspect that Ion is using time travel. Before he knows it Ion would've taken the Gauntlet away from him in the past which would affect the future. Thanos would not be able to use this against Ion for several reasons. First, Ion was shown throughout his arc to be nigh-omniscient, which means he would know all of Thanos's moves. Second, Ion can make it such that an effect on his past would not affect his future.

The only reason Thanos was beaten during the IG stuff was because he allowed himself to be vulnerable. Having mastery over time means that he would indeed know what Ion was doing, whether in the future or past. I dont think either one can trick the other in such a way.

If anything it's Parallax that might be vulnerable to tricks like this. Hal had vast time travelling and manipulation powers, but he was by no means omniscient. This was proven by the fact that he didnt know what would happen during ZH and eventually lost when he depleted his energy and Green Arrow took a shot at him.

I never said parallax destroyed any alternate realities. He only destroyed one universe, but he destroyed that same exact universe many many times. Think about it, if you destroyed the universe at the present, the universe would still have existed in the past. My point is that Parallax destroying the universe isn't as typical as others who have done it, because most universe busters only destroy the universe at the present, not at every single point of time.

I don't see what kind of reasoning makes you believe that having mastery over time makes Thanos capable of knowing others' actions. There is no connection between omniscience and time control. You could be a reality warper, but that doesn't mean you know or understand all of reality.

I agree that Parallax is not omniscient, but the proof that you cite is not practical. Remember some things are necessary for a plot to run. Parallax could never knew his demise because if he did, then he would've done something about it which would essentially make the story endless.

Team 1

Team 1.

@eisjfiejss said:

I never said parallax destroyed any alternate realities. He only destroyed one universe, but he destroyed that same exact universe many many times. Think about it, if you destroyed the universe at the present, the universe would still have existed in the past. My point is that Parallax destroying the universe isn't as typical as others who have done it, because most universe busters only destroy the universe at the present, not at every single point of time.

Well... when I say Parallax destroyed the universe I dont mean it like he just did it as the present, so I do agree with you that he destroyed all of time and it wasnt "typical". But, what I'm saying is that he only did this once. He unleashed a chronal wave that destroyed everything from the beginning of time to the end. It was only a single thing he did that went through time destroying everything.

So in that sense, yes it's a better feat than just destroying the universe at the present. But, it also seems like something Thanos would have been able to do. Only the LT would have been able to stop him.

@eisjfiejss said:

I don't see what kind of reasoning makes you believe that having mastery over time makes Thanos capable of knowing others' actions. There is no connection between omniscience and time control. You could be a reality warper, but that doesn't mean you know or understand all of reality.

I agree that mastery over time doesnt imply omniscience. But, from what I remember of IG, it granted Thanos omniscience of a sort. He was only able to be defeated because he allowed himself to be vulnerable enough so that he didnt know what to expect.

@eisjfiejss said:

I agree that Parallax is not omniscient, but the proof that you cite is not practical. Remember some things are necessary for a plot to run. Parallax could never knew his demise because if he did, then he would've done something about it which would essentially make the story endless.

For people like Thanos this totally applies, hence why I mentioned that he allowed himself to lose. But Parallax, while very powerful, wasnt really an omnipotent/omniscient type character. He basically got a lot of power, went outside the universe, and then unleashed a wave to destroy it. Yes, he was also able to build a new one, but he was still never meant to be as high as Thanos w/ IG was. Even though I like Hal, I think Parallax gets too much credit for how uber-powerful he was supposed to be. For example, people are always saying that he defeated Spectre, which was actually not true.

@WillPayton said:

For people like Thanos this totally applies, hence why I mentioned that he allowed himself to lose. But Parallax, while very powerful, wasnt really an omnipotent/omniscient type character. He basically got a lot of power, went outside the universe, and then unleashed a wave to destroy it. Yes, he was also able to build a new one, but he was still never meant to be as high as Thanos w/ IG was. Even though I like Hal, I think Parallax gets too much credit for how uber-powerful he was supposed to be. For example, people are always saying that he defeated Spectre, which was actually not true.

Actually, I find that those who think that Parallax did not defeat Spectre is just stubborn. In the middle of the fight Spectre got knocked out by Parallax and didn't come back until Parallax died. If Spectre really could still fight, why did he not come back into the battle immediately? Does Spectre really seem like the character who would stand on the sidelines and watch other heroes do his work for him? No. The implication is that somehow, Spectre got knocked by Parallax to an extent that he was incapable of fighting any further. Spectre may have had enough energy in the end to pump into Damage, but that in no way means he was capable of battle. Essentially Spectre became unconscious and regained consciousness by the end of the fight. Plus when Spectre said "This ends now" Parallax replied "Yes, but not the way you want." This signifies that the battle between the two was over at that point, and Parallax came out as the victor, albeit greatly weakened.

A good comparison would be the battle between Spectre and Captain Marvel in Day of Vengeance. Spectre was immensely weakened after he defeated the amped Marvel, but that doesn't mean Spectre didn't win. Similarly, just because Captain Marvel was able to gain consciousness after the fight (and even confront Spectre again) does not mean he didn't lose that fight.

I find it rather ridiculous that there are people out there claiming that Spectre would have won that battle against Parallax, when it is Parallax who had to fight Spectre and the other heroes simultaneously, and Spectre was actually the one who got knocked out while Parallax was not directly injured by Spectre in any way. If Spectre could defeat Parallax, then Waverider would not have said in the middle of the battle something along the lines of "we must do something quickly, or all is lost". Waverider recruited all the heroes for a plan because he knew that Spectre would not necessarily be able to defeat Parallax on his own.

I know that was a long rant. I apologize because it isn't exactly tied to the battle at hand.

@eisjfiejss said:

@WillPayton said:

For people like Thanos this totally applies, hence why I mentioned that he allowed himself to lose. But Parallax, while very powerful, wasnt really an omnipotent/omniscient type character. He basically got a lot of power, went outside the universe, and then unleashed a wave to destroy it. Yes, he was also able to build a new one, but he was still never meant to be as high as Thanos w/ IG was. Even though I like Hal, I think Parallax gets too much credit for how uber-powerful he was supposed to be. For example, people are always saying that he defeated Spectre, which was actually not true.

Actually, I find that those who think that Parallax did not defeat Spectre is just stubborn. In the middle of the fight Spectre got knocked out by Parallax and didn't come back until Parallax died. If Spectre really could still fight, why did he not come back into the battle immediately? Does Spectre really seem like the character who would stand on the sidelines and watch other heroes do his work for him? No. The implication is that somehow, Spectre got knocked by Parallax to an extent that he was incapable of fighting any further. Spectre may have had enough energy in the end to pump into Damage, but that in no way means he was capable of battle. Essentially Spectre became unconscious and regained consciousness by the end of the fight. Plus when Spectre said "This ends now" Parallax replied "Yes, but not the way you want." This signifies that the battle between the two was over at that point, and Parallax came out as the victor, albeit greatly weakened.

A good comparison would be the battle between Spectre and Captain Marvel in Day of Vengeance. Spectre was immensely weakened after he defeated the amped Marvel, but that doesn't mean Spectre didn't win. Similarly, just because Captain Marvel was able to gain consciousness after the fight (and even confront Spectre again) does not mean he didn't lose that fight.

I find it rather ridiculous that there are people out there claiming that Spectre would have won that battle against Parallax, when it is Parallax who had to fight Spectre and the other heroes simultaneously, and Spectre was actually the one who got knocked out while Parallax was not directly injured by Spectre in any way. If Spectre could defeat Parallax, then Waverider would not have said in the middle of the battle something along the lines of "we must do something quickly, or all is lost". Waverider recruited all the heroes for a plan because he knew that Spectre would not necessarily be able to defeat Parallax on his own.

I know that was a long rant. I apologize because it isn't exactly tied to the battle at hand.

Spectre didnt get knocked out. Actually, we dont really know what happened. It didnt show him even being disintegrated or him leaving or him unconscious or him dead... or anything. All we're doing is guessing. All that we really know is that Parallax shot him and then a few moments later there he was again well enough to amp Damage to restart the universe. So, one shot that hurt Spec is hardly evidence to say that he got beat by Hal.

Team 1

Team Two bulldozes them over.

The abstracts simply trying to beat Thanos were threatening to destroy the universe and he was effortlessly beating them down. The only one of them that seemingly even had him exert some minor effort was Eternity - who later was just as easily going down to Warlock. Sort of the Tribunal - a fight that would required the destruction of everything just to take said gauntlet from Warlock - Thanos solos. Even that jobber Eternity has a good shot to win this given he's a walking personification of the multiverse and generally his fragments / equals damn near destroy it every time they pop up on panel.

It's not like Ion and Parallax had to deal with an entire pantheon of abstracts or anything really on either of these two beings level.