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#1 Posted by thebelltollsforthee (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious can not use telepathy or transfer essence. Anything else is acceptable. No BFR and neither can just destroy the planet. -___- Sidious' essence isn't a factor in this fight; the destruction of Palpatine's body is considered a loss on his part. Both are bloodlusted, have their standard gear, and are at their primes.

Who would win?

#2 Posted by TheMagicStik (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

Palpatine can have all of his powers and WW still spite stomps speed blitz gg no re.

#3 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

WW spiteblitzes

#4 Edited by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

here we go.

#5 Edited by thebelltollsforthee (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@iheartzombies92: @themagicstik: Do you not know how fast Sidious is? I'm willing to bet that he's just as fast as WW or even faster. That doesn't even matter because Sidious can create a Force Storm powerful enough to destroy all life on a planet. That's him not even trying.

#6 Edited by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

@iheartzombies92: @themagicstik: Do you not know how fast Sidious is? I'm willing to bet that he's just as fast as WW or even faster. That doesn't even matter because Sidious can create a Force Storm powerful enough to destroy all life on a planet. That's him not even trying.

She's as fast as Superman in combat, which is all that really matters. Sidious is nowhere near her in terms of speed. Her fist goes through his face in less than a thousandth of a second.

#7 Posted by thebelltollsforthee (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@iheartzombies92: No, she is not as fast as Superman. Also, even if she was, she can't punch Sidious is a thousandth of a second. Do you even know how fast that is? Sidious has nanosecond reaction times and I'm sure Wonder Woman's reaction times aren't any greater. Also, who says she'll be able to get close enough to him? Sidious could just hold her with his telekinesis and electrocute her to death.

#8 Posted by TheMagicStik (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

@iheartzombies92: @themagicstik: Do you not know how fast Sidious is? I'm willing to bet that he's just as fast as WW or even faster. That doesn't even matter because Sidious can create a Force Storm powerful enough to destroy all life on a planet. That's him not even trying.

Force Users are fast and I route for them a lot but they aren't DC fast.

#9 Posted by Experio (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious takes this

#10 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Does WW have TP resistance? Bc if not, she loses after Sidious "ninjas" her brain. He can react to getting blitzed thanks to nanosecond reaction time that's enhanced by his precog.

#11 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

@iheartzombies92: No, she is not as fast as Superman. Also, even if she was, she can't punch Sidious is a thousandth of a second. Do you even know how fast that is? Sidious has nanosecond reaction times and I'm sure Wonder Woman's reaction times aren't any greater. Also, who says she'll be able to get close enough to him? Sidious could just hold her with his telekinesis and electrocute her to death.

Yeah, she is. Superman and Batman admitted it.

I was just exaggerating, as a way of describing her speed. She is much faster.

Who says the electrocution will kill her?

#12 Posted by Edude117 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebelltollsforthee said:

Sidious could just hold her with his telekinesis and electrocute her to death.

It won't be that easy. Wonder Woman's durability, especially at her prime, is much more impressive than you think.

Here's my take on this. Wonder Woman is a better fighter than Sidious. She's easily a better hand-to-hand fighter than Superman and can and has stood up to Mongul in a brawl (and won, if I'm not mistaken) so, that being said, Sidious will not be able to overpower her with his lightsaber dueling skills. Even though they're impressive, they're not enough. She'll easily deflect the lightsaber with her gauntlets and even if Sidious get's a lucky shot in, her skin is durable enough to take a hit or two from a 'saber before going down. Now, Sidious could survive an extended close encounter from Wonder Woman, considering how he has precog., extremely impressive reaction times, and powerful Force shields and barriers, but he won't be able to beat her.

Sidious is going to have to rely heavily on the Force which won't be too much of a problem as he usually resorts to the Force a lot in his battles anyway. He can't use a wormhole since BFR isn't allowed, but he can still summon a Force Storm which, I believe, could and would hurt Wonder Woman a lot. He'd also use his TK, obviously, which could totally hold Wonder Woman down while he electrocutes her. She'd be able to break out of it after a short amount of time, but him using that technique would wear her out quickly enough. Also, if Wonder Woman does manage to get near Sidious, he'd just surround himself with a Static Barrier which would electrocute Wonder Woman on contact. He'd literally just fly the whole battle, surround himself in electricity, and TK + shock Wonder Woman the whole fight. He could also use his TK to rip out her sword or whip from her hands occasionally to distract her.

All in all, I give this to Sidious only because of his range advantage. He'd be able to react to anything Wonder Woman throws at him and would just keep shooting her until she goes down. Also, he's got an entire other array of powers he could use via Sith Sorcery and Magic. This is definitely not a stomp, though. Sidious takes this 6 or 7/10 times at most.

#13 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@edude117: wonder woman has taken lightnings from zeus,2 lightnings from sidious aren't taking her down,and if this is pre 52,WW has lightnings of zeus that she can channel through the bracelets.

#14 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

Sidious takes this

she is way stronger than him,she is faster,durability also goes to wonder woman,fighting skills WW,and you think he wins?,i don't think so.

#15 Posted by Experio (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

Sidious takes this

she is way stronger than him,she is faster,durability also goes to wonder woman,fighting skills WW,and you think he wins?,i don't think so.

I do think so, those stats are not the only way to win battle.

#16 Posted by TheMagicStik (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

Does WW have TP resistance? Bc if not, she loses after Sidious "ninjas" her brain. He can react to getting blitzed thanks to nanosecond reaction time that's enhanced by his precog.

The OP specifically banned TP, and he does not have nano second reaction times. I feel like the term "nanosecond" gets thrown around a lot without people realizing the implications of the word, it's one billionth of a second, there is no force user ever who could react that fast.

#17 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@experio said:

Sidious takes this

she is way stronger than him,she is faster,durability also goes to wonder woman,fighting skills WW,and you think he wins?,i don't think so.

I do think so, those stats are not the only way to win battle.

but they matter a lot,add to the fact WW has TP resistance,and i think she has advantage to win this fight.

#18 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@themagicstik: I don't know the math of it; but here's the common example of Sidious' top speed.

Anakin Skywalker can see sublight movements when flying his starship in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

Later, when Anakin comes across Mace Windu dueling Sidious, he only sees blurs.

So if a guy who can see sublight movements sees only blurs in a duel, how fast must Sidious and Windu be fight? I'll leave that to you.

#19 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

No TP huh? Sidious just rains force storms down on her then.

#20 Posted by Experio (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: TP is banned anyways, but he still got tk, barriers shock etc. His range attacks can make it easier to gain victory. Advantage can go both ways

#21 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@experio said:

@gokuwarrior: TP is banned anyways, but he still got tk, barriers shock etc. His range attacks can make it easier to gain victory. Advantage can go both ways

range attack that she can block easily with her reflexes,can take or counter with her own lightnings,and barriers that won't withstand WW attacking at full power.

#22 Posted by TheMagicStik (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

@themagicstik: I don't know the math of it; but here's the common example of Sidious' top speed.

Anakin Skywalker can see sublight movements when flying his starship in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

Later, when Anakin comes across Mace Windu dueling Sidious, he only sees blurs.

So if a guy who can see sublight movements sees only blurs in a duel, how fast must Sidious and Windu be fight? I'll leave that to you.

I'm not exactly sure what "sublight" is supposed to mean and I'd have to know more about the context before making a decision on anything but if you're trying to say that Palpatine could be moving at near light speeds that is just rediculous.

#23 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque said:

No TP huh? Sidious just rains force storms down on her then.

WW can take his attacks,why some people don't remember that this lady has huge durability?,she is fighting superman level characters constantly,she has the durability,and the reflexes to block/dodge and the lightnings from zeus.

#24 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque said:

No TP huh? Sidious just rains force storms down on her then.

WW can take his attacks,why some people don't remember that this lady has huge durability?,she is fighting superman level characters constantly,she has the durability,and the reflexes to block/dodge and the lightnings from zeus.

Okay then he'll manipulate her soul then. He has a few ways to win now that I think of it.

We need an expert in here though... @dccomicsrule2011 - care to join?

#25 Edited by Edude117 (349 posts) - - Show Bio
@themagicstik said:

he does not have nano second reaction times. I feel like the term "nanosecond" gets thrown around a lot without people realizing the implications of the word, it's one billionth of a second, there is no force user ever who could react that fast.

Dude, I hate to break it to ya, but he does. Yes, that is insanely fast, but Palpatine and Luke Skywalker do indeed have nanosecond reaction time. There have been other Force users who've had reaction times that fast, too. The Ones have reaction times faster than that. Since these are comics, there's no need for logic. Even though nanosecond reaction time is completely ridiculous, it's not real-life, so it doesn't matter if it's ridiculous. I mean... look at the Flash. Haha

And Sidious moves at relativistic speeds. See, I really hope you know Star Wars outside of the movies because some of the feats portrayed in the comics are Marvel/DC level feats.

#26 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3906 posts) - - Show Bio

@edude117 said:
@themagicstik said:

he does not have nano second reaction times. I feel like the term "nanosecond" gets thrown around a lot without people realizing the implications of the word, it's one billionth of a second, there is no force user ever who could react that fast.

Dude, I hate to break it to ya, but he does. Yes, that is insanely fast, but Palpatine and Luke Skywalker do indeed have nanosecond reaction time. There have been other Force users who've had reaction times that fast, too. The Ones have reaction times faster than that. Since these are comics, there's no need for logic. Even though nanosecond reaction time is completely ridiculous, it's not real-life, so it doesn't matter if it's ridiculous. I mean... look at the Flash. Haha

And Sidious moves at relativistic speeds. See, I really hope you know Star Wars outside of the movies because some of the feats portrayed in the comics are Marvel/DC level feats.

I feel the need to clarify this because people keep throwing this around. He could be on any end of the spectrum when it comes to speed of light whether it's the low end or the high end. We've seen Wonder Woman engage with people who can/have/were going FTL, but the best that we have from the opposition is basically people saying, "He's fast. I don't know how fast he is, but he's fast."

Can you tell us what he's done speed wise that makes his speed comparable to WW's?

These next set of questions aren't directed towards yourself, but if you have answers for them then by all mean feel free to comment.

I keep seeing people suggest that he could make a barrier. The question then becomes can/has his barriers ever been able to contain or withstand the amount of damage WW is able to put out?

Secondly what's his durability because assuming it's standard to that of a human it would clearly only take one hit from WW to end this.

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#27 Posted by Beezlebub (1864 posts) - - Show Bio

You neutered Sidious yet he still wins.

#28 Edited by Edude117 (349 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: Depends on whether your talking about running speed or fighting speed. If you're talking about fighting sped, he can effortlessly dodge a barrage of blaster fire from an entire army and can duel multiple adept Jedi/Sith in a duel and win easily. Darth Maul, one of the best lightsaber duelists of all time, is a joke to Palpatine. Now, if you're not well-versed in Star Wars, I suppose those feats sound meaningless, but know that blaster bolts travel much faster than bullets (not the speed of light, though) and that the Jedi and Sith that Palpatine faces are masters that can move fast enough to almost teleport to the naked eye.

As for the Static Barrier, it's not necessarily the same thing as Force Barrier and Force Shield. It's mostly an energy absorbing barrier that'll absorb anything from blaster bolts to grenade explosions. When matter touches it, electricity is flown through the object. When it is a living creature, the dose is typically lethal. It's definitely not an instakill to Wonder Woman. Not even close. But'll she'll grunt in pain if she touches it. She'll definitely want to avoid it.

Body-wise, yes, his durability is that of a normal human. In fact, one may argue even less than that of a normal human. His constant over use of the Dark Side caused extreme and rapid decay of his body. However, his Force Shields and Barriers could definitely withstand standard hits from Wonder Woman. Her harder hits with some difficulty.

And as for the relativistic speed issue, Sidious' movement/running speed has never been officially measured, but based on feats and what other characters in the Star Wars universe say, his movements are proven to be relativistic. That means that he moves at a significant portion of the speed of light. You can't expect us to put an exact MPH figure to it, though.

#30 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@carter_esque said:

No TP huh? Sidious just rains force storms down on her then.

WW can take his attacks,why some people don't remember that this lady has huge durability?,she is fighting superman level characters constantly,she has the durability,and the reflexes to block/dodge and the lightnings from zeus.

Okay then he'll manipulate her soul then. He has a few ways to win now that I think of it.

We need an expert in here though... @dccomicsrule2011 - care to join?

sidious can't simply possess anyone he wants. It required a prior Force Bond with another or a prepared body for him to inhabit. He doesn't simply possess people at will. And Essence Transfer also requires overpowering the will of the intended host. Failure means his being is banished forever, like what happened with Darth Bane when he failed to take over Zannah.

#31 Edited by JediXMan (30902 posts) - - Show Bio
@gokuwarrior said:

sidious can't simply possess anyone he wants. It required a prior Force Bond with another or a prepared body for him to inhabit. He doesn't simply possess people at will. And Essence Transfer also requires overpowering the will of the intended host. Failure means his being is banished forever, like what happened with Darth Bane when he failed to take over Zannah.

Care to prove that?

Failure to possess does not mean being banished. Bane was an inexperienced user who had no idea what he was doing; he had only recently learned how to use Essence Transfer. Palpatine studied it for decades, and was able to live purely as a spirit for over a year during his ethereal travels. Palpatine broke most previously established conceptions regarding particular Force abilities, and so Darth Bane does not qualify as a relevant comparison.

Palpatine's spirit was killed when Empatojayos Brand died; he was only defeated because the spirits of fallen Jedi from the afterlife kept Palpatine down, and the power of Luke kept Palpatine contained in Brand as he died.

Empatojayos Brand had neither of the stipulations that you put forth. You say that it requires a Force Bond or a prepared body to inhabit. However, Brand proves it is not the case that one needs a Force Bond or a prepared body to do such a thing. Therefore, your entire claim is without ground due to the falsification of your premise, and so is not worthy of further acknowledgement or indulgent.

Learn your lore and don't try using another person's (flawed) argument without understanding any of the (misinterpreted) context. When you garner a level of sufficient comprehension or decide that you actually want to learn, then I will consider further discussion.

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#32 Edited by JediXMan (30902 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque said:

No TP huh? Sidious just rains force storms down on her then.

WW can take his attacks,why some people don't remember that this lady has huge durability?,she is fighting superman level characters constantly,she has the durability,and the reflexes to block/dodge and the lightnings from zeus.

Good. Let's see now long she survives a worm hole:

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#33 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: That's a nice feat. However I fail to see how he'd be able to accomplish such a feat against someone of WW's speed. She'd be on him instantly and if here were to do something like that especially of that size how would he not end up hurting himself? A lot of the things people keep saying he's capable of doing to her either requires her to be standing still slow enough or for him to be fast enough to catch her.

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#34 Posted by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: If she is as fast as Superman in combat, who only travels at his absurd FTL speeds, then that doesn't suddenly enable her to blitz somebody with near-relativistic fighting speeds, precognition, and clairvoyance. Superman's reaction speeds, to my understanding, are not as fast as his travel speeds, but then again apparently Wonder Woman has better reaction feats than Superman.

#35 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3906 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: If she is as fast as Superman in combat, who only travels at his absurd FTL speeds, then that doesn't suddenly enable her to blitz somebody with near-relativistic fighting speeds, precognition, and clairvoyance. Superman's reaction speeds, to my understanding, are not as fast as his travel speeds, but then again apparently Wonder Woman has better reaction feats than Superman.

People keep using that word, but I wonder if anyone knows what it means.

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#36 Edited by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: Even by dictionary definition it can be used a reference for something traveling at or almost as fast as the speed of light.

#37 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3906 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: Even by dictionary definition it can be used a reference for something traveling at or almost as fast as the speed of light.

it's actually just a substantial portion of the speed of light. As I said before no one knows which end of the spectrum he's on he could be at the lowest. Everyone siding with him either has him playing keep away as to not get instantly killed as if he would know she's strong enough to do so and use his powers from afar. I see no way around him engaging her in physical combat and being killed because he's nowhere near capable to handle a blow from her.

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#38 Edited by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: Then how about near-light speed, for the sake of of satisfying you. And he actually could likely tell her strength since he could read her mind and use her powers from afar, so the people siding with him are actually right in that regards. He does have TP, speaking of which he could use to stomp WW.

EDIT: Never mind, TP isn't allowed in the OP.

#39 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3906 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: Then how about near-light speed, for the sake of of satisfying you. And he actually could likely tell her strength since he could read her mind and use her powers from afar, so the people siding with him are actually right in that regards. He does have TP, speaking of which he could use to stomp WW.

EDIT: Never mind, TP isn't allowed in the OP.

Yeah I was going to mention that and the fact that if this is WW at her prime then she's immune to TP anyway. As is I see absolutely no way nor a reason why he'd play keep away. The only reason he'd do so is if he knew her powerset or had some sort of prep. He'd still have to try to tag her and the scan you showed was a huge wormhole, which means opening it in close quarters near your enemy would risk hurting himself and who's more likely to survive a frail old man or a Superman level character who can cross her bracelets and create an impenetrable forcefield?

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#40 Posted by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: He won't have to risk hurting himself with his Wormholes because he has a sufficient level of control over them to manipulate their size and area of effect. He created one small enough to fit inside the reactor shaft on the second Death Star when he was thrown down.

#41 Posted by Outside_85 (9515 posts) - - Show Bio

I assume this is the Palpatine from the comics and not the stumbling old man that was thrown in the reactor.

In which case there really isn't a point in trying to argue because the comic Jedi/Sith all seem to live on a level even Saiyans cant reach according to the fans of that world.

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#42 Edited by JediXMan (30902 posts) - - Show Bio
@evil_incarnate said:

@jedixman: That's a nice feat. However I fail to see how he'd be able to accomplish such a feat against someone of WW's speed. She'd be on him instantly and if here were to do something like that especially of that size how would he not end up hurting himself? A lot of the things people keep saying he's capable of doing to her either requires her to be standing still slow enough or for him to be fast enough to catch her.

Wasn't arguing that. In fact, I wasn't actually picking a side here. Just pointing out inaccuracies. I was just challenging the durability claim.

Moderator
#43 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:
@evil_incarnate said:

@jedixman: That's a nice feat. However I fail to see how he'd be able to accomplish such a feat against someone of WW's speed. She'd be on him instantly and if here were to do something like that especially of that size how would he not end up hurting himself? A lot of the things people keep saying he's capable of doing to her either requires her to be standing still slow enough or for him to be fast enough to catch her.

Wasn't arguing that. In fact, I wasn't actually picking a side here. Just pointing out inaccuracies. I was just challenging the durability claim.

LOL,if you think lightnings attacks can put her down then you are underestimating her a lot,and it's a fact that she is durable enough to fight superman level characters,she does it all the time.

#44 Posted by JediXMan (30902 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL,if you think lightnings attacks can put her down then you are underestimating her a lot,and it's a fact that she is durable enough to fight superman level characters,she does it all the time.

I'm sure the "lol" was simply a poor attempt to make yourself appear more... credible, I'm assuming?

If you're going to challenge me, try to actually come up with a logical rebuttal instead of throwing out pointless accusations. Not once did I use the word "lightning," nor did I reference it. Ever. Until then, don't waste my time with your blather.

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#45 Edited by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@edude117: He traveled across a spaceport in the span of a second/few seconds once, if I recall correctly. Either that was some teleportation ability like Fold Space, or it was legitimate movement.

#46 Posted by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: You shouldn't be listening to him anyways, given how misinformed he is. He's been making up information.

#47 Posted by JediXMan (30902 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: You shouldn't be listening to him anyways, given how misinformed he is. He's been making up information.

Worse. He's been listening to Reikai.

Moderator
#48 Posted by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Well, at this rate it certainly doesn't surprise me.

#49 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3906 posts) - - Show Bio

Can we stop making each thread personal and stick to facts?

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#50 Edited by ShootingNova (18276 posts) - - Show Bio

True. This thread has gotten off-topic.

I'm not sure where we were up to before this before we disengaged with the topic.