Pain vs 4th Hokage

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vs

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Takes place here. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120426174123/naruto/images/a/a2/Final_Valley.png

Fight to the death.

I'm thinking Minato can use the Space Time Barrier to remove Pain's summons from the battlefield, but otherwise I'm not sure his speed will be enough to win this one. To beat Pain you have to have raw power of sorts, which Minato simply has not been shown to possess.

@Shiryu said:

I'm thinking Minato can use the Space Time Barrier to remove Pain's summons from the battlefield, but otherwise I'm not sure his speed will be enough to win this one. To beat Pain you have to have raw power of sorts, which Minato simply has not been shown to possess.

Seconded..

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Shiryu said:

I'm thinking Minato can use the Space Time Barrier to remove Pain's summons from the battlefield, but otherwise I'm not sure his speed will be enough to win this one. To beat Pain you have to have raw power of sorts, which Minato simply has not been shown to possess.

Seconded..

Third...ed?

Minato

Minato.

@Shiryu said:

I'm thinking Minato can use the Space Time Barrier to remove Pain's summons from the battlefield, but otherwise I'm not sure his speed will be enough to win this one. To beat Pain you have to have raw power of sorts, which Minato simply has not been shown to possess.

This

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Minato

I don't think minato could do it with what we've seen of him. The most destructive thing he's shown is rasengan.. How is he going to take pain with that, he absorbed rasen shurikern. And naruto had the prior knowledge on his side, sage mode clones, three summons, toad duo, and still he nearly lost. He had to go six tails to overpower deva path, and eight to break out of chibaku tensei.. I think I'll be siding with him once he see him fight for fight's sake..

@SlimJ87D: Minato would blitz the Pain's also.

@SlimJ87D: Minato>Jariya

@SlimJ87D said:

@PrinceAragorn1: according to the data book Minato could summon all the toads as well. That would help. But you are right, I'm not sure who would win. Minato never reached his full potential, not like Jiraiya who died against the Pains. But Minato could start Boring the bodies and kill them one on one. So I see a good chance of him winning too. When it comes down to the last pain, shiny and tensei is useless because minato can throw a kunai behind him and teleport behind him and deal a fatal blow. I'm going to wait and see if Minato shows anything if he gets to fight as an Edo.

Agreed. Let's wait to see him fight. I get a feeling he's going to be as incredible as he consistently is..

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@SlimJ87D: Minato would blitz the Pain's also.

It's not going to be that easy.. Even if he blitzes, what's he going to do? stab him with kunai? He's not suddenly going to know that you should attack deva pein.. otherwise if he attacks the absorber one with rasengan, he's the one who's going to be surprised. And what if they collect his kunai in one place using gravitation? You're slightly underestimating pein here..

@PrinceAragorn1: Just slightly.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Just slightly.

Yeah, I did that some time ago too.. Dbz habit.. new villain stomps the old one :o

But rewatching the fights, he's still one of the strongest guys around..

Minato wins.

Minato could win by slitting everyones throat. Pein could do nothing to get ahold of Minato and we still haven't seen enough of Minato.

@Batnandez said:

Minato could win by slitting everyones throat. Pein could do nothing to get ahold of Minato and we still haven't seen enough of Minato.

What if he just blows away all his kunai by shinra tensei? or collects them in one place?

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Just slightly.

Yeah, I did that some time ago too.. Dbz habit.. new villain stomps the old one :o

But rewatching the fights, he's still one of the strongest guys around..

Yeah

I think if Minato plays his cards right he could win or at least pull off the death god seal.

Pein ftw.

@SlimJ87D: I'm going to wait and see if Minato shows anything if he gets to fight as an Edo.

You know what, Why didn't i think of that.

Just to clear something here.

Minato doesn't have any speed feats in reality, all he does is teleport.

His Body Flicker, his flying raijin, all teleportation. How do this jutsus works?

1. His fight with Obito (Tobi) - He didn't speedblitz Tobi, he teleported to the kunai he had thrown before they attacked each other and used a rasengan for a combination. With the rasengan attack, he marked Tobi (the same marks seen in the knives all around), so he was able to teleport to Tobi
2. Mission with little Kakashi, Rin and Tobi - He saves Kakashi from a ninja and marks that ninja without him knowing. Then he teleports behind the same ninja afterwards and kills him

3. His fight with Bee (8 tails) and the 4rth Raikage - He teleported behind Bee via a marking on one of Bee's tails.

It's not really speed, just teleportation.

Now with that cleared, I'll get to the topic. I'd say for all showings (except future chapters), Nagato would win. Even if Minato do have the ability to summon 8 toads, that wouldn't really help since they'll be busy with Pain's summons also, not to mention that multiplying dog crap, and that Egg-bomb laying bird. Minato could not possibly get near any of the pains without getting surprised with their abilities. I bet Deva and that robotic Pain could do the same thing they did to Kakashi's clone, pull then stab thing.

Until he can't mark any of them, he can't really just teleport behind any of them. Blind spot is also useless since all Pains share their vision. So if he somehow gets behind one of the Pains, the others would just attack him or perform a summoned to block his attack, like what happened to Jiraya's hair needle barrage. If Deva gets him via pulling, the fat Pain (lol) will grab him then suck all his chakra, or they'll just spam stab him like they did to Jiaraya.

But let's just wait for the upcoming chapters, hope Kishi would give the 4rth more showings rather than just flashbacks which IMO sucks.

He gets bansho ten in'd to oblivion

Pein.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Batnandez said:

Minato could win by slitting everyones throat. Pein could do nothing to get ahold of Minato and we still haven't seen enough of Minato.

What if he just blows away all his kunai by shinra tensei? or collects them in one place?

He would need to know where they all are. And the only way to collecting them all his chibaku tensei which would leave him completely vulnerable as Minato has tags everywhere as seen when he had to escape Pain. And he would have to get every single Kunai as well.

I don't think this will be easy. Minato would have to grab and teleport away each pain body and beat them 1 on 1 which I think he's more than capable of doing.

He doesn't have many feats, but the short amount of screen or manga time he has had has really put him up there. Figuring out a way to beat Tobi, protect the village from the Fox, Seal the Fox and being a Hokage puts him up there.

@SlimJ87D: But how is he going close to them? And the summoner path can summon other bodies.. so they could get back. Not just chibaku tensei, if he uses shinra tensei, he could blow all the kunai around far away.

@PrinceAragorn1: Getting close to them I don't think is an issue. He's fell for smoke bombs, etc. Minator just has to smoke bomb himself throw a few kunai, the one that makes it through he can teleport there and then touch the body and teleport it away, etc.

Minato is a genius, remember he figured out a way to defeat Tobi while chaos was happening all around him. I'm factoring his intelligence here which often is an ability that often gets overlooked in CV.

I don't know if Pain has summoned a body that was dead as in it is damaged to the point that it's not usable anymore. But lets say he takes one of the bodies out and sees her summon the body and it get revived, we know Minato is smart enough to take her out next and then take out the guy that revives the bodies.

All this is assuming that he is the genius that everyone says he is which the data books and other characters make him out to be legendary.

Lets not forget he can also summon all the toads if he needs to to use as distractions. Ma and Pa can enter and fight in Sage mode, so they're not completely useless as long as Minato works along wit them and keeps pressure on Yahako Pain.

It hink Mintao can win but I can see Pain winning too. Like I said, I'm waiting to see what Minato can do as an Edo, which most likely won't happen.

@SlimJ87D: At that time God realm didn't have his gravitation powers so couldn't clear the smoke.. He won't even know which is going to summon when he's teleporting them, and he has to tag them six times. He sure can summon all the toads he wants, but they were taken out by a single shinra tensei..

The point is, he won't even know he has to put the pressure on yahiko pein.. Imagine what'd happen if pein had decided to face jiraya head on with all six bodies. He would have lost in moments.. I can see minato faring better than either naruto or Jiraya if he was in their situation, but as he is, he simply does not have the destructive capabilities to take down pein.

I'm not underestimating him slightest bit, but you really need to rewatch the fights with pein to notice his power..

I'm hoping we get to see him actually fight as well. We haven't seen him using an elemental technique yet for God's sake..

Minato Wounded Obito and made him retreat with one attack.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@SlimJ87D: At that time God realm didn't have his gravitation powers so couldn't clear the smoke.. He won't even know which is going to summon when he's teleporting them, and he has to tag them six times. He sure can summon all the toads he wants, but they were taken out by a single shinra tensei..

The point is, he won't even know he has to put the pressure on yahiko pein.. Imagine what'd happen if pein had decided to face jiraya head on with all six bodies. He would have lost in moments.. I can see minato faring better than either naruto or Jiraya if he was in their situation, but as he is, he simply does not have the destructive capabilities to take down pein.

I'm not underestimating him slightest bit, but you really need to rewatch the fights with pein to notice his power..

I'm hoping we get to see him actually fight as well. We haven't seen him using an elemental technique yet for God's sake..

The battle field he fought Naruto in was completely empty though, and he had to do Chibaku Tensei to create a battle field like that. This battle I'm assuming would be a normal battlefield, one that Minato can use cover in many different places. You have to factor that in to. The toads, specially ma and pa were stuck in plain site.

The battlefield did heavily favor someone with gravity powers because it was completely empty.

@SlimJ87D: On the other hand, if there are a lot of objects around, a gravity user could use them very well. Maybe not for chibaku tensei, but generally throwing them around. And he can clear the ground again if he needs.. if minato gets caught up in that...

@PrinceAragorn1: I don't think so, his gravity takes time to recharge rememeber. that could actually hurt him, if he wasted it on throwing a tree it leaves him open for 5 seconds. If kakashi could pick up on that, Minato surely can. So using and spamming his gravity ability would let a genius like Minato learn about that.

Flattening the ground drained his chakra remember?

@SlimJ87D: @SlimJ87D: But one of his st flattened three toads at once.. If minato's hit by that, it's game over.. And It's not like he's only about gravity, he's extremely good in taijutsu, and all that bashing six tails gave him barely put a scratch on him.. The only one that's going down easy is the summoning one..

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@SlimJ87D: @SlimJ87D: But one of his st flattened three toads at once.. If minato's hit by that, it's game over.. And It's not like he's only about gravity, he's extremely good in taijutsu, and all that bashing six tails gave him barely put a scratch on him.. The only one that's going down easy is the summoning one..

I don't thinking pushing toads away is considered flattening. What happen with the toads is because they were accelerated very fast and pushed against mountains, etc. Minato has a good counter to gravity powers.

Here's where it gets tricky. The way gravity works is relative to time. Minator's ability is space and time, in sci-fi, space and time powers mean you enter into an area where time is no longer relevant to where you were and there is another relative of time in that dimension, then you enter back into the other dimension again.

So if Pain threw or pushed Minato and if Minato teleported, that gravitational push wouldn't be in effect anymore because Minato would have entered his own dimension where time is suppose to be relative to that dimension.

If you are interested, read up on relativity.

@SlimJ87D: Actually, when minato was nearly sucked in by obito, even as he teleported, he was down on ground.. I'm not sure that he changes his speed when he teleports. Also, even if he keeps teleporting around, he's not going to get any closer to the paths.. Not to mention tagging the soul sucking path would result in an insta kill. They get second chances, he doesn't, unless he keeps using shadow clones and tires himself out..

@PrinceAragorn1: Well if he was faced down and teleported face down then he would reappear face down and still fall on the ground.

Mixing gravity and space time teleportation is a bit tricky. But I think Minato could easily teleport before Pain's gravity powers come into affect.

i'm kind of bored with this thread now. I'll probably be back when Edo 4th shows some new moves.

@SlimJ87D: I hope I get to change the vote at the time. I am a big fan of Minato as well, but as he is, he simply doesn't have what it takes to certainly beat pein.

Pain is gonna be in lots of pain.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@SlimJ87D: I hope I get to change the vote at the time. I am a big fan of Minato as well, but as he is, he simply doesn't have what it takes to certainly beat pein.

I agree. There is no certainty. Being a genius with a few power moves can only get you so far against one of the most powerful ninjas we have seen so far.

This Battle is essentially 6v1 Peins vs Minato. Considering Pein flattened an entire village by himself I'll side with Pein here. Also Pein uber stomped all the shinobi in Konoha(would've killed Naruto if he didn't hav Fox mode on) so... Minato has his work cut out for him.

Pein WIns. Planetary Devastation.

@afueikawa said:

Just to clear something here.

Minato doesn't have any speed feats in reality, all he does is teleport.

His Body Flicker, his flying raijin, all teleportation. How do this jutsus works?

1. His fight with Obito (Tobi) - He didn't speedblitz Tobi, he teleported to the kunai he had thrown before they attacked each other and used a rasengan for a combination. With the rasengan attack, he marked Tobi (the same marks seen in the knives all around), so he was able to teleport to Tobi
2. Mission with little Kakashi, Rin and Tobi - He saves Kakashi from a ninja and marks that ninja without him knowing. Then he teleports behind the same ninja afterwards and kills him

3. His fight with Bee (8 tails) and the 4rth Raikage - He teleported behind Bee via a marking on one of Bee's tails.

It's not really speed, just teleportation.

Now with that cleared, I'll get to the topic. I'd say for all showings (except future chapters), Nagato would win. Even if Minato do have the ability to summon 8 toads, that wouldn't really help since they'll be busy with Pain's summons also, not to mention that multiplying dog crap, and that Egg-bomb laying bird. Minato could not possibly get near any of the pains without getting surprised with their abilities. I bet Deva and that robotic Pain could do the same thing they did to Kakashi's clone, pull then stab thing.

Until he can't mark any of them, he can't really just teleport behind any of them. Blind spot is also useless since all Pains share their vision. So if he somehow gets behind one of the Pains, the others would just attack him or perform a summoned to block his attack, like what happened to Jiraya's hair needle barrage. If Deva gets him via pulling, the fat Pain (lol) will grab him then suck all his chakra, or they'll just spam stab him like they did to Jiaraya.

But let's just wait for the upcoming chapters, hope Kishi would give the 4rth more showings rather than just flashbacks which IMO sucks.

That's wrong Minato does in fact have a speed feat that's not teleportation as there's no kunai on the ground, here's the feat in question

No teleportation

6 Paths. Together they are an ultimate fighting force. By the way, does Minato have intel on them or not? If not then the 6 Paths murder stomp and they still win if Minato does have intel.

@redbird3rdboywonder:

And that's all of it.

The rest is just pure teleportation.

Jiraya gets stomped by Pain even in Sage Mode, I don't see Minato winning this one with what was shown of him.

Well, YET.

Minato

@afueikawa said:

@redbird3rdboywonder:

And that's all of it.

The rest is just pure teleportation.

Jiraya gets stomped by Pain even in Sage Mode, I don't see Minato winning this one with what was shown of him.

Well, YET.

we may see something in the upcoming chapters but knowing Kishi, he'll let us down

@redbird3rdboywonder:

And also of the 2nd Hokage, not just his kid version (Chapet 623 - A View).

@Kyzuko said:

6 Paths. Together they are an ultimate fighting force. By the way, does Minato have intel on them or not? If not then the 6 Paths murder stomp and they still win if Minato does have intel.

This is in general the right idea. Minato having intel and time would help a great deal. A big part of Pein fighting Jiraiya was that Jiraiya didn't know what he was facing and Pein did know what he was facing. Still, should Minato and Pein fight with no intel, Pein won't murder stomp, as Jiraya didn't know what he was facing and didn't get stomped, although a loss is a loss.

Aragorn is correct in that we have not seen enough of Minato to know if he could beat Pein. So far we have not seen enough. However, judging from the way they speak of Minato, he will get a power-up the next time we see him fight, if we ever see him fight again.

Minato can hold his own. Beating the 6 paths would be a little above him though I think.

@redbird3rdboywonder: I just realized that Naruto had the whisker marks before the fox was sealed in him. Do you think that's a mistake? Or the influence occurred during the pregnancy.