Pain (All 6 Paths) vs. Goku (Final Battle vs. Frieza)

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saiyan_earthling

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#51  Edited By saiyan_earthling

Goku s&%ts on the entire Narutoverse.

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PlasticBag

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#52  Edited By PlasticBag

Goku easily wins. SS1 could destroy the Naruto U. Sage Mode is no where near SS Goku was moving a lot faster than Naruto was.

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terry2012

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#53  Edited By terry2012

Goku without a question. Goku doesn't have jutsu to be absorb here. Pein stand no chance here.

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IZZR

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#54  Edited By IZZR

@ilive12 said:

nappa would solo naruto-verse. i mean the guy could destroy a continent with two fingers without any strain. this thread, with ssj 1 goku is over-kill.
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the_stegman

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#55  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

Gotta love when someone bumps a thread just to say it's a stomp.

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PrinceAragorn1

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#56  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

Use some other version of Goku. Goku who fought vegeta threw a planet buster away.. Pein is a city-leveller.. So you should go for king piccolo saga Goku.

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Laurcus

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#57  Edited By Laurcus

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

Use some other version of Goku. Goku who fought vegeta threw a planet buster away.. Pein is a city-leveller.. So you should go for king piccolo saga Goku.

Roshi was a moon buster with a PL of 180. King Piccolo era Goku had a PL of 260.

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PrinceAragorn1

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#58  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

@Laurcus: Fine. Suggest a version of Goku that is as weak as pein is. You don't get one once he starts fighting..

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Laurcus

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#59  Edited By Laurcus

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Laurcus: Fine. Suggest a version of Goku that is as weak as pein is. You don't get one once he starts fighting..

I am unsure what you mean by the bolded text. And there really isn't a version of Goku that's close to that strength level. At the start of the series, Goku is barely superhuman with a power level of 10, then after he trains under Master Roshi he jumps up high enough to give Roshi a good challenge.

Basically, one version of Goku, (PL 10) gets stomped, all other versions do the stomping.

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redbird3rdboywonder

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Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

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RedLanternSuperman

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@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

Sailor Galaxia would solo Marvel Earth, and DC Earth.

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Pokergeist

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#62  Edited By Pokergeist

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

If they allowed Manga vs Comics again then maybe DBZ can get some real matches.

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redbird3rdboywonder

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@RedLanternSuperman said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

Sailor Galaxia would solo Marvel Earth, and DC Earth.

Yeah she would her and a full powered Salior Moon

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redbird3rdboywonder

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@CadenceV2 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

If they allowed Manga vs Comics again then maybe DBZ can get some real matches.

Doubt it because Goku vs Superman is what got anime vs comic battles banned in the first place

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Pokergeist

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#65  Edited By Pokergeist

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

If they allowed Manga vs Comics again then maybe DBZ can get some real matches.

Doubt it because Goku vs Superman is what got anime vs comic battles banned in the first place

No worse than Thor vs Superman or Hulk vs Superman. They wont banned those fan rage matches. sigh.

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redbird3rdboywonder

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@CadenceV2 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Whenever there's a battle involving a DB character it's either a battle in which they stomp the opponents or they get MAJORSTOMPED by ome other character(i.e. they'd get stomped by Salior Galaxia)

If they allowed Manga vs Comics again then maybe DBZ can get some real matches.

Doubt it because Goku vs Superman is what got anime vs comic battles banned in the first place

No worse than Thor vs Superman or Hulk vs Superman. They wont banned those fan rage matches. sigh.

It's jut how it is I suppose. It should be obvious that anything above the Cell saga would destroy regular Supes but people allowed blatant fanboyism to determine their judgement instead of logic

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PrinceAragorn1

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#67  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

@Laurcus said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Laurcus: Fine. Suggest a version of Goku that is as weak as pein is. You don't get one once he starts fighting..

I am unsure what you mean by the bolded text. And there really isn't a version of Goku that's close to that strength level. At the start of the series, Goku is barely superhuman with a power level of 10, then after he trains under Master Roshi he jumps up high enough to give Roshi a good challenge.

Basically, one version of Goku, (PL 10) gets stomped, all other versions do the stomping.

I meant, Goku as we know him, the guy who will grow up strong enough to blow planets. Not just an above average martial artist he is at the start of seris..

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DragoMorph

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#68  Edited By DragoMorph

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

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Israphael

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#69  Edited By Israphael

@DragoMorph: Yeah, Goku stomps within seconds.

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PrinceAragorn1

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#70  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

lol

Btw You shouldn't go against a character you don't know.. But it doesn't make a difference here.. Goku is too much for pein to handle.

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DragoMorph

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#71  Edited By DragoMorph

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

lol

Btw You shouldn't go against a character you don't know.. But it doesn't make a difference here.. Goku is too much for pein to handle.

Well, I read through the thread to see what people were saying Pain's strength level was. Plus, just based off of my general knowledge of the Naruto universe, I figured no one's going to be as ridiculously overpowered like in DBZ. But, yeah, it's still a bad idea to post without proper knowledge of the characters.

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Laurcus

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#72  Edited By Laurcus

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

You are brilliant. I have been looking for the right words to describe exactly what you're talking about for years. I can explain it, but not in such a concise way. It's pretty rare that I will say that another person really gets DBZ, but you sir, you get it. Respect.

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Project_Worm

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#73  Edited By Project_Worm

Kid Goku wold probably be a better match... Actual Kid Goku not turned to a little kid, Kid Goku...

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OneVision_OnePurpose

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@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Hold on, I always took from Goku that he could blow up a planet if he wanted to but he didn't because he was...you know a good guy. Goku held back to avoid colateral damage. Its that whole "Don't do a kamehameha facing the ground, you'll blow up the world!" Where does punches that can blow up a solar system come from?

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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This is such a stomp in Goku's favor its ridiculous. All I can really ask is why would you put a character you like through such a beating? At this point, Goku's a planet buster without transforming. So as a Super Saiyan that's obviously taken to even higher levels.

LMFAO and I saw someone mention that Pain has planet destroying power. No he does not. No one in Naruto does as a matter of fact. That's why this fight is so unfair. You're comparing two characters from universes on completely different scale. Pain is a village/city buster. No more, no less.

Goku is physically stronger than Pain, faster, has energy based attacks that can nuke planets, he has excellent endurance, I mean I fail to see how exactly Pain is supposed to win this. Goku also has the ability to sense energy. Its a standard ability in his universe, so he could easily find Nagato, though it doesn't matter as if all his Paths were destroyed Nagato's not doing shit anyways.

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ghost_rider1

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#76  Edited By ghost_rider1

This is a mismatch

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cascadeking09

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#77  Edited By cascadeking09

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

The way pain's power works is he can see through all 6 path's line of vision at the same time, so to be able to attack in a blind spot is nearly impossible. One of the 6 bodies has the ability to absorb energy, so if Goku fires an energy blast the Preta path could absorb it. If we assume Goku is faster then he should be able to cope with their abilities pretty easily, but part of the reason why he struggled with android 19 was because he could absorb his energy blasts and increase his own strength by doing so. The paths dont feel bodies dont feel pain and they're dead so, like the androids, they dont tire either. Goku definitely wins though.

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ghost_rider1

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#78  Edited By ghost_rider1
@DragoMorph

U are wrong about goku power level when he first went super saiyan. It wasnt anywhere near 150,000,000. It was only 15,000,000. Frieza power level was 12,500,000. Yes, goku win this without even trying. Like I said this is a mismatch
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Mortein

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#79  Edited By Mortein
No Caption Provided

@ghost_rider1 said:

@DragoMorph U are wrong about goku power level when he first went super saiyan. It wasnt anywhere near 150,000,000. It was only 15,000,000. Frieza power level was 12,500,000. Yes, goku win this without even trying. Like I said this is a mismatch
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ghost_rider1

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#80  Edited By ghost_rider1
@Mortein
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@ghost_rider1 said:

@DragoMorph U are wrong about goku power level when he first went super saiyan. It wasnt anywhere near 150,000,000. It was only 15,000,000. Frieza power level was 12,500,000. Yes, goku win this without even trying. Like I said this is a mismatch
Where did u get that from? I been all over ther internet to find their power levels most of the sites said goku powerlevel was 15,000,000. So where did u get that from?
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ghost_rider1

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#81  Edited By ghost_rider1
@Mortein

That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.
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solesamurai

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#82  Edited By solesamurai

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

Whem goku fought captain ginyu? What about that portion in time where he was healing and finally went to go fight freiza? It was explained that when recovering from near death situations, saiyans get a ridiculous power boost. SS1 was stated to make a saiyan 100x stronger/faster/powerful. And to top all that off Frieza in his base form was at least at a power level of 500k, Goku fought frieza in his final form. His power level would have needed to be well beyond 180k to even tussle with frieza in base form. Even if Freiza only got 4 times stronger(which is waaaaaaaaaaay lower than the power gain he actually got)He would have to have had a power level of at least 2mil. Meaning his PL as a SSJ would still be waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what you're stating. Those sites don't know what the hell they're talking about, because the math just doesn't add up at all.

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deactivated-607949e25bdb6

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Saiyan Saga Piccolo busted a moon, and you are putting them up against Namek Saga Goku?

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RIKR2

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#84  Edited By RIKR2

this is not a fair match goku just too much!! 6 path vs goku (picolo saga) final of the tenkaichi tournament now that would be more fair IMO

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PrinceAragorn1

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#85  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

@ghost_rider1: "Only" 15,000,000? omg..

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Mortein

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#86  Edited By Mortein

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

It is from Daizenshuu, official dbz info book.

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ghost_rider1

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#87  Edited By ghost_rider1
@solesamurai

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

Whem goku fought captain ginyu? What about that portion in time where he was healing and finally went to go fight freiza? It was explained that when recovering from near death situations, saiyans get a ridiculous power boost. SS1 was stated to make a saiyan 100x stronger/faster/powerful. And to top all that off Frieza in his base form was at least at a power level of 500k, Goku fought frieza in his final form. His power level would have needed to be well beyond 180k to even tussle with frieza in base form. Even if Freiza only got 4 times stronger(which is waaaaaaaaaaay lower than the power gain he actually got)He would have to have had a power level of at least 2mil. Meaning his PL as a SSJ would still be waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what you're stating. Those sites don't know what the hell they're talking about, because the math just doesn't add up at all.

When goku was fighting frieza before he turned super saiyan he was fighting with his kaioken. Its true that saiyans get a power boost after a near death experience. But not that big of a jump. When vegeta was almost killed on earth. His powerlevel went from 18,000 to 24,000. That's not a huge jump but it is a power boost. His near death experience after captain ginyu took his body isn't gonna bring his power level from 180,000 to millions. That's wayyyy to big of a power boost than normal. When he fought frieza he was using kaioken the whole time. It was explained by king kai that goku was using kaioken when he was fighting frieza before he turned super saiyan. The red aura was not visible when he was fighting him in kaioken for some reason. I don't knw the reason behind that. But I a lot of different sites is saying the same thing about their power level that there is no reason to believe it. I didn't get this info from one site. I got it from many sites that said the same thing
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ghost_rider1

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#88  Edited By ghost_rider1
@Mortein

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

It is from Daizenshuu, official dbz info book.

Well idk what to say. Maybe your right, maybe not. After their fight with captain ginyu. No one else used scouters
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Mortein

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#89  Edited By Mortein

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

It is from Daizenshuu, official dbz info book.

Well idk what to say. Maybe your right, maybe not. After their fight with captain ginyu. No one else used scouters

well it doesn't really matter for this fight

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DragoMorph

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#90  Edited By DragoMorph

@OneVision_OnePurpose said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Hold on, I always took from Goku that he could blow up a planet if he wanted to but he didn't because he was...you know a good guy. Goku held back to avoid colateral damage. Its that whole "Don't do a kamehameha facing the ground, you'll blow up the world!" Where does punches that can blow up a solar system come from?

Because as power levels increase, physical durability does as well. They don't hold back power when fighting each other (well, when it's a good guy vs. bad guy situation); they're hitting them with everything they've got. So when you see someone (say, in the Cell Saga, where everyone was well beyond planet buster) expend all their strength trying to kill someone and it doesn't work, it means they've used enough force to blow up a solar system on one dude. And it didn't scratch him. They can't really tire themselves out if they're not using even enough power to blow up a planet (which would be literally a millionth of a fraction of their full power) whereas we repeatedly see them become exhausted just from attacking so hard.

@cascadeking09 said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

It's not confirmed confirmed, in that it's not shown on screen. However, Vegeta says he can and we really have no reason to disbelieve him. Plus, if he was bluffing, he would've been called out on it by another character, since you need to remember that everyone in that battle could sense power levels and the strength of energy attacks, so they would have known if he could do what he claimed. And I'd rather not get too into it like I said before, but we see Piccolo blow up the moon (with a power level of at most 1,000) and Roshi do the same (with a power level of 400) so I'm willing to bet 18,000 is pretty overkill already. But for the sake of debate, that can be the planet-busting minimum.

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

Like another poster said, Saiyans both get stronger from near-death situations and get a pretty massive Super Saiyan power boost. And to sum it up quickly, we have confirmed power levels to about third form Frieza somwhere above the million range. Vegeta shows up to tackle third form Frieza, at which point Frieza transforms and pretty much demolishes him with a 1.2 million power level. He then says he's using one percent of his full power. There are actually alternative methods of determining his 120,000,000 level, but that's the quickest one right there (though it is pretty vague, which is why the other methods were needed to solidify the conclusion in the first place). The 150 million number specifically comes from the various outside readings and Akira Toriyama himself who said that Super Saiyans get a times 50 power multiplier to their base. But even if you ignore that, Goku's still at least 130 million, because that's pretty much the minimum he'd have to be to stomp Frieza like he did.

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cascadeking09

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#91  Edited By cascadeking09

@DragoMorph said:

@cascadeking09 said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

It's not confirmed confirmed, in that it's not shown on screen. However, Vegeta says he can and we really have no reason to disbelieve him. Plus, if he was bluffing, he would've been called out on it by another character, since you need to remember that everyone in that battle could sense power levels and the strength of energy attacks, so they would have known if he could do what he claimed. And I'd rather not get too into it like I said before, but we see Piccolo blow up the moon (with a power level of at most 1,000) and Roshi do the same (with a power level of 400) so I'm willing to bet 18,000 is pretty overkill already. But for the sake of debate, that can be the planet-busting minimum.

Vegeta is a very arrogant character, he once boasted that he was a super saiyan long before ever becoming one. That alone is reason enough to not take his words at face value. I honestly think the whole planet-buster label is ridiculous, what's really the point of saying a character is a planet buster if they never destroy a planet. Piccolo blowing up the moon I also thought of as a silly feat, but its about the closest any of the z fighters got to actually destroying a planet. Regardless the idea of them using that type of attack in a battle right of the bat isnt very likely.

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Laurcus

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#92  Edited By Laurcus

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

All those sites are wrong, 150 mil is from Daizenshuu 7, the character guide section called "The Evolution of Goku's power level".

Let me explain. When Goku fought Ginyu, his PL was 90k, (180k was due to Kaio Ken) his body was then heavily damaged by Vegeta after Ginyu body switched with him. Recovering in the healing tank gave Goku a Zenkai boost, increasing his PL from 90k to 3 mil. Goku then when Super Saiyan, which is a x50 multiplier, increasing his PL from 3 mil to 150 mil.

And for reference, the Daizenshuu books are basically the highest level of canon. They were written by Akira Toriyama's editors, (with input and help from Toriyama, including some interviews) just after the DBZ manga was finished being produced. Those, along with the Super Exciting Guides are the ultimate source of DBZ information.

It's where we get all kinds of super cool information, like Dabura being a corrupted Supreme Kai, the universe being ~ 100 million years old, Capsule Corp's address being WST 3338926 K, etc. Basically, they're awesome.

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#93  Edited By Tony_Shark

@Band Lone said:

Sixth Path of Pain is a technique from Nagato not actual combatants so Goku ALREADY is in disadvantage. He is fighting a technique of an enemy not the actual enemy...

Also at this time Goku is just power and here he is facing against power and strategy.

I believe that he will lose because of at that time Goku's greatest ability were:

The Kamehameha
Spirit bomb (Takes time to gather) and
The Kaio-ken (Which is probably his only hope in winning but is a two bladed sword after using it.)

Six path of Pain vs SSJ Goku:

Is obvious that the Six path of Pain are a strategist's game, apiece protects the other and they all serve their purpose. They fight as a team which makes this even harder.

Preta path: It will take care of the Ki energy threats, no matter how powerful, with the blocking technique absorption seal (There goes Kamehameha, ki blast and Spirit bomb)

Deva path: He will take care of Goku's speed and offense. Gravity manipulation can be used as offense and defense no matter how powerful the enemy offense Shinra tensei can counter it. The best part is that it works according to the threat. So It can go through the most powerful defenses.

Asura path : Was very interesting. It could be a great pain from a distance with it's random abilities and powers not to mention a great power is needed to destroy it. After been wounded he was still a threat.
Human path: Great martial artist and a soul absorber..
Naraka/Outer path: Naraka and outer path can be key element. Combine shinra tensei and this skill (Which paralizes the victim for interrogation) regardless of what be inquired afterward Goku would be weakened to the point of exhaustion.
animal: Summoner of great beast and the other six paths.

I honestly don't see Goku walking out of this one. I mean Goku isn't smart enough to know the secret of the Six path of Pain. He will just go straight fighting them (Because I know Goku and he loves a challenge) Since Goku (At this time) was a straight fighter he wont be that hard to predict. (He doesn't have the instant transmission at that time)

Goku's hope: Kaio-ken attack in my opinion. Try to take them all out with his tenfold strength and speed. SPECIALLY THE PRETA PATH! Goku will be in desperate need to destroy it since it takes out all of Goku's firepower. Destroy Preta path otherwise he will lose.

Fun fact: Did you know that Nagato died undefeated? He died by his own will reviving those he had killed in the village with the Samsara of Heavenly life technique.


These are just puppets
These are just puppets

HAHAHAHA... No.

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OneVision_OnePurpose

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@DragoMorph said:

@OneVision_OnePurpose said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Hold on, I always took from Goku that he could blow up a planet if he wanted to but he didn't because he was...you know a good guy. Goku held back to avoid colateral damage. Its that whole "Don't do a kamehameha facing the ground, you'll blow up the world!" Where does punches that can blow up a solar system come from?

Because as power levels increase, physical durability does as well. They don't hold back power when fighting each other (well, when it's a good guy vs. bad guy situation); they're hitting them with everything they've got. So when you see someone (say, in the Cell Saga, where everyone was well beyond planet buster) expend all their strength trying to kill someone and it doesn't work, it means they've used enough force to blow up a solar system on one dude. And it didn't scratch him. They can't really tire themselves out if they're not using even enough power to blow up a planet (which would be literally a millionth of a fraction of their full power) whereas we repeatedly see them become exhausted just from attacking so hard.

@cascadeking09 said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

It's not confirmed confirmed, in that it's not shown on screen. However, Vegeta says he can and we really have no reason to disbelieve him. Plus, if he was bluffing, he would've been called out on it by another character, since you need to remember that everyone in that battle could sense power levels and the strength of energy attacks, so they would have known if he could do what he claimed. And I'd rather not get too into it like I said before, but we see Piccolo blow up the moon (with a power level of at most 1,000) and Roshi do the same (with a power level of 400) so I'm willing to bet 18,000 is pretty overkill already. But for the sake of debate, that can be the planet-busting minimum.

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

Like another poster said, Saiyans both get stronger from near-death situations and get a pretty massive Super Saiyan power boost. And to sum it up quickly, we have confirmed power levels to about third form Frieza somwhere above the million range. Vegeta shows up to tackle third form Frieza, at which point Frieza transforms and pretty much demolishes him with a 1.2 million power level. He then says he's using one percent of his full power. There are actually alternative methods of determining his 120,000,000 level, but that's the quickest one right there (though it is pretty vague, which is why the other methods were needed to solidify the conclusion in the first place). The 150 million number specifically comes from the various outside readings and Akira Toriyama himself who said that Super Saiyans get a times 50 power multiplier to their base. But even if you ignore that, Goku's still at least 130 million, because that's pretty much the minimum he'd have to be to stomp Frieza like he did.

Based entirely on your assumption and the way you'd like to see characters as opposed to something we're informed in the manga or show. Got yeah.

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#95  Edited By Laurcus

@OneVision_OnePurpose said:

@DragoMorph said:

@OneVision_OnePurpose said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Hold on, I always took from Goku that he could blow up a planet if he wanted to but he didn't because he was...you know a good guy. Goku held back to avoid colateral damage. Its that whole "Don't do a kamehameha facing the ground, you'll blow up the world!" Where does punches that can blow up a solar system come from?

Because as power levels increase, physical durability does as well. They don't hold back power when fighting each other (well, when it's a good guy vs. bad guy situation); they're hitting them with everything they've got. So when you see someone (say, in the Cell Saga, where everyone was well beyond planet buster) expend all their strength trying to kill someone and it doesn't work, it means they've used enough force to blow up a solar system on one dude. And it didn't scratch him. They can't really tire themselves out if they're not using even enough power to blow up a planet (which would be literally a millionth of a fraction of their full power) whereas we repeatedly see them become exhausted just from attacking so hard.

@cascadeking09 said:

@DragoMorph said:

Yeah, people are seriously underestimating Goku here. I don't know anything about this "Pain" character, but I can bet that they'll lose, because Goku isn't a planet buster at this point.

Vegeta, earlier in the series, had a power level of 18,000. He was a planet buster. His strength could blow up the Earth. That much is confirmed. Even assuming that's the minimum required strength level for planet-busting in DBZ (it probably isn't, but I'd rather not get too in-depth so we'll say it is) Goku's power level at his first Super Saiyan transformation was 150,000,000.

Goku was well beyond planet buster. Nearly unimaginably stronger than one.

People tend to get confused because of how energy control works in DBZ. They see a character make a full power attack, miss, and watch the attack just blow up a mountain or something and assume the character isn't as strong as you would think. However, the energy rules in DBZ, while hazy, are essentially based around controlled power. If you're hurting the bad guy (especially later in the series), you're hitting them with enough force to blow up a solar system. It just doesn't kill everyone because you're controlling it. It's weird, really; the best analogy I can think of is imagining a house that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. That's how attacks work in DBZ.

So, yeah. A power level of 150,000,000 is probably overkill for most of the more powerful versions of Superman, let alone Pain, who is apparently just a city-buster. It's like launching full thermonuclear and biological warfare on an ant.

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

It's not confirmed confirmed, in that it's not shown on screen. However, Vegeta says he can and we really have no reason to disbelieve him. Plus, if he was bluffing, he would've been called out on it by another character, since you need to remember that everyone in that battle could sense power levels and the strength of energy attacks, so they would have known if he could do what he claimed. And I'd rather not get too into it like I said before, but we see Piccolo blow up the moon (with a power level of at most 1,000) and Roshi do the same (with a power level of 400) so I'm willing to bet 18,000 is pretty overkill already. But for the sake of debate, that can be the planet-busting minimum.

@ghost_rider1 said:

@Mortein That has to be wrong for a number of reasons. I just went to the internet and went to about 5 or 6 sites that's said goku powerlevel was 15 million. 150 million is impossible for his first time going super saiyan. When goku fought captain ginyu his power level was 180,000. Its not gonna jump from that all the way to 150,000,000. It went up to 15,000,000. Wherever u got that from should have left out a zero.

Like another poster said, Saiyans both get stronger from near-death situations and get a pretty massive Super Saiyan power boost. And to sum it up quickly, we have confirmed power levels to about third form Frieza somwhere above the million range. Vegeta shows up to tackle third form Frieza, at which point Frieza transforms and pretty much demolishes him with a 1.2 million power level. He then says he's using one percent of his full power. There are actually alternative methods of determining his 120,000,000 level, but that's the quickest one right there (though it is pretty vague, which is why the other methods were needed to solidify the conclusion in the first place). The 150 million number specifically comes from the various outside readings and Akira Toriyama himself who said that Super Saiyans get a times 50 power multiplier to their base. But even if you ignore that, Goku's still at least 130 million, because that's pretty much the minimum he'd have to be to stomp Frieza like he did.

Based entirely on your assumption and the way you'd like to see characters as opposed to something we're informed in the manga or show. Got yeah.

What precisely was an assumption in that post? Everything there that was remotely important was factual. Energy consumption, durability, power levels, zenkais and power benchmarks, all correct, all of those points can be backed up with the show or the official guidebook.

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DragoMorph

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#96  Edited By DragoMorph

@cascadeking09 said:

@DragoMorph said:

@cascadeking09 said:

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

It's not confirmed confirmed, in that it's not shown on screen. However, Vegeta says he can and we really have no reason to disbelieve him. Plus, if he was bluffing, he would've been called out on it by another character, since you need to remember that everyone in that battle could sense power levels and the strength of energy attacks, so they would have known if he could do what he claimed. And I'd rather not get too into it like I said before, but we see Piccolo blow up the moon (with a power level of at most 1,000) and Roshi do the same (with a power level of 400) so I'm willing to bet 18,000 is pretty overkill already. But for the sake of debate, that can be the planet-busting minimum.

Vegeta is a very arrogant character, he once boasted that he was a super saiyan long before ever becoming one. That alone is reason enough to not take his words at face value. I honestly think the whole planet-buster label is ridiculous, what's really the point of saying a character is a planet buster if they never destroy a planet. Piccolo blowing up the moon I also thought of as a silly feat, but its about the closest any of the z fighters got to actually destroying a planet. Regardless the idea of them using that type of attack in a battle right of the bat isnt very likely.

Regardless of whether you think the moon-busting feat is ridiculous, it happened. And like I said, if Vegeta were bluffing or mistaken, he would have been called on it by someone. If we was lying, Goku most certainly wouldn't have gone into overdrive in Kaio-Ken to try and stop the attack head on as opposed to just dodging it.

@OneVision_OnePurpose said:

Based entirely on your assumption and the way you'd like to see characters as opposed to something we're informed in the manga or show. Got yeah.

A logical conclusion is not the same as an assumption. Taking what we're given in the manga/show and extrapolating from there is a big part of DBZ debates. Now if I've made a legitimate logical leap and there's something I've said that requires further explanation, just point out what it is. But if you think we can't know something just because it's not explicitly stated in the source material, then I'm not sure why you're in this discussion.

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Baron Cross

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#97  Edited By Baron Cross

Can the mods please close this one

it is a mismatch

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cascadeking09

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#98  Edited By cascadeking09

@DragoMorph said:

@cascadeking09 said:

@DragoMorph said:

@cascadeking09 said:

Great explanation, but Im not sure I agree with Vegeta being a planet buster. Its been a while but I dont recall him ever actually destroying a planet or anything like it. You said "His strength could blow up the Earth", where does that come from? Frieza and Buu are the only characters to have actually blown up a planet, Vegeta and Nappa did together in an episode of dbz called "Trouble on Arlia", but the episode was filler(non canon).

It's not confirmed confirmed, in that it's not shown on screen. However, Vegeta says he can and we really have no reason to disbelieve him. Plus, if he was bluffing, he would've been called out on it by another character, since you need to remember that everyone in that battle could sense power levels and the strength of energy attacks, so they would have known if he could do what he claimed. And I'd rather not get too into it like I said before, but we see Piccolo blow up the moon (with a power level of at most 1,000) and Roshi do the same (with a power level of 400) so I'm willing to bet 18,000 is pretty overkill already. But for the sake of debate, that can be the planet-busting minimum.

Vegeta is a very arrogant character, he once boasted that he was a super saiyan long before ever becoming one. That alone is reason enough to not take his words at face value. I honestly think the whole planet-buster label is ridiculous, what's really the point of saying a character is a planet buster if they never destroy a planet. Piccolo blowing up the moon I also thought of as a silly feat, but its about the closest any of the z fighters got to actually destroying a planet. Regardless the idea of them using that type of attack in a battle right of the bat isnt very likely.

Regardless of whether you think the moon-busting feat is ridiculous, it happened. And like I said, if Vegeta were bluffing or mistaken, he would have been called on it by someone. If we was lying, Goku most certainly wouldn't have gone into overdrive in Kaio-Ken to try and stop the attack head on as opposed to just dodging it.

Im not denying that, I just think its silly. And what would they say? "No you cant destroy the planet." and just fall back afterwards? Unless he backed it up by actually destroying a planet theres really no way to prove that his statement is true, if if Goku rushed to stop the attack instead of just dodging it why would he bother taking a risk like that taking the chance that Vegeta, a person he didnt know well at the time, was actually stating something within his ability and not just bragging about how powerful he is?

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TheGirugamesh

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#99  Edited By TheGirugamesh

@Pwok21 said:

Saiyan Saga Piccolo busted a moon, and you are putting them up against Namek Saga Goku?

Anyone who genuinely believes that this is not a stomp and actually knows about the characters (i.e. it's not blind fanwanking) deserves to be removed from society, they're too stupid to be allowed on the streets.

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@girugamesh:

Uh huh, you know as much as I hate DBZ what stops Goku from effortlessly busting the planet before they can react?

Oh right, nothing.