Ozymandias vs. Rorschach, Comedian and Nite-Owl I

Young Hollis Mason is the Nite-Owl in this, not that milksop Dreiberg. Who wins?

Well considering that's what he essentially did(take them out) in the first place, I say Ozymandias.

if they were all in their prime i would say the team considering the comedian beat him wen he was in his prime but if it during watchmen then would have to go with ozymandias

Nite Owl 1 says that Nite Owl 2 was a better nite owl then he ever was. This may be flattery and it may not. It is almost the only indication given abotu a comparison between the two, however, as you don't really get to see nite owl 1 doing anything in the book.

This would leave me to believe that nite owl 2 is actually the more formidable of the two.

Comedian in his prime is better than an inexperienced Veidt, but i don't think he could take Veidt during in 1985.

So, as far as Rorshach and nite owl goes, you would see a repeat of the end of the book where Veidt smokes the both of them with little effot, but even more-so, as nite owl 1 may not be as good as nite owl 2.

Adding the comedian in there with his standard gear, meaning some fire-arms puts this more in favor of the team though, as all the other guys have to do is keep Veidt busy enough to shoot him, but that would prove diffiult as well as Veidt would go after the guy with the gun first.

You see a few instances of Veidt taking out guys with guns in the book and movie. He uses the environment, namely corporate stooges, to take the bullets and hide behind until he can close the distance. He dodges bullets here, to a degree, by anticipating where they guy is aiming, not by dodging the bullet as it flies. This is somewhat more impressive even than some of wolverine's bullet evading feats, as he usually gets caught by a few before he closes and tears the guy up.

He also catches the bullet from Silk Spectre and evades the laser shot from Nite Owl 2

Team with comedian and gun is 5/10

Team without gun for comedian is 3/10

Overall, Veidt wins.

The whole team I think can overcome Veidt in their prime but wouldn't be easy

am tired of hearing a lot of the things about the Comedian winning, so I hope what I have to say next will end this once and for all.........

I am talking STRICTLY AND ONLY about Ozymandias from the Watchman movie here.

Ozymandias wins, dont worry, I will tell you why.

Ozymandias has demonstrated on numerous occasions superhuman strength, superhuman reflexes and superhuman intelligence. 
Ozymandias CAUGHT A BULLET......  HE CAUGHT A BULLET, and he DODGED LIKE TEN MORE BULLETS......

Ladies and Gentleman, lets stop pretending that this is not a big deal.  Let's also stop trying to take away credit from Ozymandias.

It doesn't matter if you Ozymandias hatters say things like :" oh, but that was just lucky!!"  I'm sorry, but when you catch something as fast as a bullet aimed at you, you usually aren't just "lucky".....  You need superhuman speed and reflexes to do that. 

Some more eveidence to prove that Ozymandias wasn't just lucky................  Number one, he has on numerous occasions dodged bullets.  Number two, he displayed superhuman speed in all his fights.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe it wasn't JUST luck??  Has it ever occured to you guys that maybe, just maybe, that Ozymandias caught the bullet because he had superhuman senses?

Ok, second of all, Ozymandias has on numerous occasions demonstrated superhuman strength.  He kicked a man and sent him flying more than 20 feet across the room.  He took a gigantic weapon in Watchman and smashed a guy and sent him flying for like 7 seconds before he fell.... 

He beat the tar out of Rorschach and Night Owl at the same time, two of the best fighters of their era,  like they were 2 infants............ Even though Rorschach has shown the ability to hold his own against more than 20 armed and trained police officers attacking him at the same time..........

He also was able to beat the tar out of the comedian, who was stated to be superior to 99 percent of average humans, even though Comedian was a 60 year old man.  Yep, the Comedian is actually in better physical shape then 99 percent of the human race, better than people who were 20 or 30 years younger than him.

Yea, I know the comedian was old, but, actually, contrary to popular belief, the comedian didn't get significantly weaker over the years, due to his intense combat training.  
 
I know the Comedian has beaten Ozymandias before, but that was when Ozy was a teenager.

In fact, in Watchman when they put Ozymandias and the bullets in slow motion, we can actually see him outrunning those bullets. 

Rorschach was one of the best street brawlers of all time when it comes to street brawls and gangfighting.  So was night Owl.  They both demonstrated enough skill to fight of multiple trained armed forces of gans and policemen.  They both dominated every single street fight there was, and they both dominated the prison fights in jail.

BUT, RORSCHACH AND NIGHT OWL BOTH GOT PAWNED AROUND BY OZYMANDIAS LIKE THEY WERE 2 INFANTS!!!!!!!!!

If Ozymandias could see bullets comming at him and dodge and catch them, it would only make sense if he could see Rorschach. Night Owl, and Comedian's movements too right? 
 
Last but not least, Ozymandias is officially and literally, "the smartest man in the world."  He has on numerous occasions demonstrated his intelligence.  He was able to manipulate the genes of people, outwit all the other minutemen and the police officers, creat an alien monster, invent deadly weapons, outsmart the government, etc.............  Ozymandia's intelligence would help him out certainly.

Hope this helped, and you are all  welcomed to disagree with me anytime. 

Is this Ozy when he was younger or Ozy in 85? If he's younger, the team wins. If it's the 85 version, he wins almost as easily as he did in both the book and the movie.

I'm gonna have to give it to Ozymandias.

"sigh".  some opinions just never change.

Ozy eff's them up with ease. See how effortlessly he took out Nite Owl and Rorschach, another schlump isn't going to make a difference

Comedian is stronger than Rorschach and Nite Owl 2 Combined.

" if they were all in their prime i would say the team considering the comedian beat him wen he was in his prime but if it during watchmen then would have to go with ozymandias "

" @comicbookguy said:

" if they were all in their prime i would say the team considering the comedian beat him wen he was in his prime but if it during watchmen then would have to go with ozymandias "

When did the Comedian beat Ozymandias?  I say Ozymandias wins. "

" @comicbookguy said:

" if they were all in their prime i would say the team considering the comedian beat him wen he was in his prime but if it during watchmen then would have to go with ozymandias "

When did the Comedian beat Ozymandias?  I say Ozymandias wins. "

" @JediXMan said:

" @comicbookguy said:

" if they were all in their prime i would say the team considering the comedian beat him wen he was in his prime but if it during watchmen then would have to go with ozymandias "

When did the Comedian beat Ozymandias?  I say Ozymandias wins. "

It was off-panel, but Ozymandias admitted it during his fight with Rorschach and Dreiberg. "

now if this is ozy from 1985 and a prime comedian comedian wins this by himself he beat a young trained ozy and within this fight rorschach and niteowl serve as fodder while comedian kicks ozys ass that is why ozy waited so long to beat comedian he had a personal hate for him also because he was the only fighter in the watchmen universe who could beat him i know ozy trained in martial arts while he went on a vision quest to follow in the footsteps of alexander the great but this fight lasts about 15 mins then ozy gets 3 teeth knocked out and nose broken and left by comedian

Prime comedian solos, he already defeated Ozy in comics. Old comedian dies along with others, they didn't prove to be any challenge for Ozy.

Ozy wins

@chunjacktao: Catching the bullet was overrated. What he really did was place his hands where he knew it would be BEFORE the shot was even fired. And that was a low velocity round. Don't expect him to be able to pull that off again.

The team. Eddie is a close enough fight on his own.

Team. Nite Owl and Rorschach are fodder, but Eddie is good enough to beat Adrian alone so they should tip the balance in the team’s favour.

Without context, Eddie can't beat Adrian alone. In their first fight it was a prime Comedian vs Ozymandias just starting out and it was a stalemate, and in their latest fight Eddie won because he had the advantage of surprise, and only did it through trickery after losing up close.

@lubub55: I can’t remember where I read it, but I think it was mentioned that in their first fight, Veidt was pre-prime and Blake was post-prime, so it evens out. Also, Adrian might have only just started crime fighting at that point but he’d been training and fighting for years, so it’s a bit of a cop out to say he lost a H2H fight because of context. Eddie beat him fair and square.

Their latest fight I agree had a lot more context, but Eddie is way past prime at that point and I’d back Ozy to mop the floor with him 9/10 anyway.

I’m an Ozy fanboy, but if this is everybody in their prime, then he isn’t winning. Blake is good enough to at least take a minority solo, and adding in 2 extra fighters should clinch it pretty solidly.

Ozymandias would clearly have won based on Watchmen but with Doomsday Clock trying to retcon Comedian's inferiority it's unlikely he could beat all 3 at once.

@kingcrimson:

I can’t remember where I read it, but I think it was mentioned that in their first fight, Veidt was pre-prime and Blake was post-prime, so it evens out.

Eddie was 35 during their fight, which in comic books and for people who stay in shape like he does in around prime, taking into account the mixture of physicality and experience. Ozymandias hadn't joined any crime fighting organisation at this point and had only spent one night crime fighting. And Eddie got the drop on him anyway, which Ozymandias was good enough to react to.

Also, Adrian might have only just started crime fighting at that point but he’d been training and fighting for years, so it’s a bit of a cop out to say he lost a H2H fight because of context. Eddie beat him fair and square.

Gallery

Ozymandias states that they were dead-even, and after losing internal monologue states that he lost on purpose in order to test Eddie.

Their latest fight I agree had a lot more context, but Eddie is way past prime at that point and I’d back Ozy to mop the floor with him 9/10 anyway.

What do you mean by this?

I’m an Ozy fanboy, but if this is everybody in their prime, then he isn’t winning. Blake is good enough to at least take a minority solo, and adding in 2 extra fighters should clinch it pretty solidly.

I agree the team win solidly, I was just saying that Eddie can't win on his own.

It wasn't really a fair fight in Watchmen, and even the original comic states that they'd fought in their primes and Eddie won. I don't think this is a new thing. The rivalry's been pretty long lasting since the beginning.

That was retconned in before watchmen to be a stalemate which Ozy lost on purpose.

@jashro44: I know. I was commenting on the idea that in the original comic they weren't portrayed as on the same level when in actuality the retconning was to make Ozy better in comparison.

@lubub55: Fair enough.

@lubub55: It could also be feasibly considered post prime, seeing as the comedian had been operating for several years and the lifestyle he tended to live outside of work. I think it was an interview with Len Wein that stated he was slightly post prime and Ozy was slightly pre prime, but I’m not 100%. I know, but like I said he’d still been fighting and training for some time. Eddie got the drop on him, but not in H2H. When they fought in good ol’ fisticuffs nobody had an initial advantage.

He did, but I don’t know why he’d choose to lose if he was capable of winning - he could of gathered the same data had he been the one to land that uppercut. I know from a retconning standpoint he HAD to lose, as the original comic had already cemented that but, still. Guess I’m just salty about him losing.

You mention about Ozy admitting they were dead even but you still think Blake can’t win solo - why? Ozy essentially flat out states, by definition, that he has an even chance of losing to Blake.

I meant that around the time period that Doomsday Clock takes place, Blake is firmly past his prime. At that stage in both of their lives, I feel Ozy would be the one to clinch victory 9/10.

I think Eddie has a fair shot to beat Ozy based on what we know. I’d say you have to give Ozy a small majority based on in-universe statements. Based on feats, I think Ozy cleans house personally. But he has already stated that Blake and he were equals when Ozy was younger. If everybody is prime, then Eddie should have a chance to take a minority at least.

Comedian is certainly enough to tip it in the teams favor.

@kingcrimson:

It could also be feasibly considered post prime, seeing as the comedian had been operating for several years and the lifestyle he tended to live outside of work.

Ozymandias encountered him in full gear and I'm pretty sure he was working for the government at that point. Him having been operating for a few years is what makes me think it's his prime. That in combination with him being young enough to still retain his physicals.

I think it was an interview with Len Wein that stated he was slightly post prime and Ozy was slightly pre prime, but I’m not 100%.

If you can source this I'll reconsider.

I know, but like I said he’d still been fighting and training for some time.

I don't think any sort of training can match actual experience.

Eddie got the drop on him, but not in H2H. When they fought in good ol’ fisticuffs nobody had an initial advantage.

I think the fact that an inexperienced Ozymandias was able to turn an ambush on its head and engage where he had the advantage highlights his superiority.

He did, but I don’t know why he’d choose to lose if he was capable of winning - he could of gathered the same data had he been the one to land that uppercut. I know from a retconning standpoint he HAD to lose, as the original comic had already cemented that but, still. Guess I’m just salty about him losing.

He knew everything he could know when they were even. He had to see how Eddie would operate with the upper hand, which informed Ozy of Eddie's tricks.

You mention about Ozy admitting they were dead even but you still think Blake can’t win solo - why? Ozy essentially flat out states, by definition, that he has an even chance of losing to Blake.

Because that fight was 50/50, but the context favoured The Comedian.

I meant that around the time period that Doomsday Clock takes place, Blake is firmly past his prime. At that stage in both of their lives, I feel Ozy would be the one to clinch victory 9/10.

It's also worth noting that Ozymandias is in his fifties himself at this point. Blake had nine years on Adrian in the fight.

I think Eddie has a fair shot to beat Ozy based on what we know. I’d say you have to give Ozy a small majority based on in-universe statements. Based on feats, I think Ozy cleans house personally. But he has already stated that Blake and he were equals when Ozy was younger. If everybody is prime, then Eddie should have a chance to take a minority at least.

All taking a minority means is that the fight isn't a 10/10 win. I agree and think it's very close and more like a 6/10, but is still overall more likely to go in Adrian's favour.