Who is the ultimate ATLA Firebender?
Fight takes place during Sozin's Comet where Zuko and Azula had their Agni Kai
No lightning
Morals off, victory by KO or death
They start in a triangle 25 feet from each other
Who comes in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd?
Ozai>>>>>Iroh>>>>>>Jeong Jong
Iroh's BSS busting was incredibly impressive, but Ozai was more impressive in my opinion in his fight against Aang and that immense flame projection he created.
Jeong Jong was powerful, his flight and flame walls etc but I think either of the brothers could beat him with considerable effort.
@rogueshadow: Remember that both Iroh and Jeong Jeong preferred nonviolence and sometimes held back, especially Jeong Jeong. Do you think the lack of morals here will make a difference?
@pooty: What about Ozai's flight and speed?
@rogueshadow: Remember that both Iroh and Jeong Jeong preferred nonviolence and sometimes held back, especially Jeong Jeong. Do you think the lack of morals here will make a difference?
Didn't notice the morals, I did read the op but it escaped my attention somehow; I think it would be a toss up between Iroh and Ozai. Ozai's youth might give him an edge. Jeong Jong still goes down though in my opinion.
@rogueshadow: How do you think they'd get past his fire shields?
@rogueshadow: How do you think they'd get past his fire shields?
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@rogueshadow: Yeah, I didn't allow lightning because, while Jeong Jeong should be able to use it, we've never seen him use it
OP specifies no lightning.
The Fire Comet from Iroh required significant focus and charging.
I see no reason to believe Jeong Jeong couldn't block the last one. He far and away created the most fire of any firebender in the series (not counting during Sozin's Comet)
@rogueshadow: Yeah, I didn't allow lightning because, while Jeong Jeong should be able to use it, we've never seen him use it
Fair enough.
@arcus: I don't see flight helping. Iroh can still attack him even when Ozai is flying. and I don't recall him bending while flying. What speed are you referring to? And the only reason Ozai has a chance is because Iroh can't use lightning IMO
Iroh can generate lightning.
@rogueshadow: How do you think they'd get past his fire shields?
OP specifies no lightning.
The Fire Comet from Iroh required significant focus and charging.
I see no reason to believe Jeong Jeong couldn't block the last one. He far and away created the most fire of any firebender in the series (not counting during Sozin's Comet)
I know about the lightning, I've already addressed it. I'm not saying he couldn't block it, but the OP asked how they get past his fire shields/walls. I showed their respective power outputs, that's how they would. Jeong Jong has a lot of raw power, no question, but not many combat feats other than stagnant tanks as i remember, whereas Iroh at least beat Azula, some Dai Li and Ozai was fighting Aang.
@rogueshadow: I know but I don't think he showed he can redirect it. if they both use lightning, I think Ozai is at a disadvantage.
@arcus: As long as Irohs fire can move through the air, I don't see flying being a difference maker. His flying speed doesn't make a difference either. Also, Ozai, IMO only looked good because Aang was holding back. If Aang was morals off the fight would have lasted 4 minutes if that. IMO bending is about even. I think Iroh is the better,smarter fighter
@rogueshadow: I know but I don't think he showed he can redirect it. if they both use lightning, I think Ozai is at a disadvantage.
@arcus: As long as Irohs fire can move through the air, I don't see flying being a difference maker. His flying speed doesn't make a difference either. Also, Ozai, IMO only looked good because Aang was holding back. If Aang was morals off the fight would have lasted 4 minutes if that. IMO bending is about even. I think Iroh is the better,smarter fighter
He definitely can, he redirected natural lightning as well as Azula's and he taught Zuko how to do it.
@rogueshadow: I know but I don't think he showed he can redirect it. if they both use lightning, I think Ozai is at a disadvantage.
@arcus: As long as Irohs fire can move through the air, I don't see flying being a difference maker. His flying speed doesn't make a difference either. Also, Ozai, IMO only looked good because Aang was holding back. If Aang was morals off the fight would have lasted 4 minutes if that. IMO bending is about even. I think Iroh is the better,smarter fighter
He definitely can, he redirected natural lightning as well as Azula's and he taught Zuko how to do it.
I was talking about Ozai can't redirect lightning. that is why he's at a disadvantage.
@pooty: Flying could help with evasion and finding better positions to attack
Morals only make so much of a difference, maybe Aang could have ended it via lightning redirection, but most of the time he was too busy trying to stay alive to attack
Flying can help but not to any noticeable degree against people of this caliber. And he only flew to chase Aang. I doubt flying is part of his normal combat scheme. Morals makes a HUGE difference when talking about Aang. Look at the fight. When Aang was ready to fight...... not evade or defend but fight........ Ozai was manhandled.
@pooty: Ah, earlier on you said Iroh can't use lightning and then followed that up saying that he can't redirect it.
@pooty: Aang's chakra got unlocked when he hit the rock, allowing him to go into the Avatar State. It's not like he just decided to start fighting
This is true, but Aang could still have taken him out with lightning earlier on by redirecting it, it was only his morals that stopped him, Iroh could do the same thing and Ozai has no counter.
@rogueshadow: Yeah, Ozai might have been able to dodge the lightning though
@rogueshadow: Yeah, Ozai might have been able to dodge the lightning though
He had a pretty wtf expression on his face, I really think he would've been done if Aang had blasted it back. He was kind of dumb really, he'd already seen Zuko do it, Zuko told him he was going to train the Avatar...you'd think he'd have been a bit less startled.
@rogueshadow: Maybe
I think that all 3 have the capability to win on any given day. I think Iroh is the most balanced and versatile of the 3 and I call him even with Ozai with the stipulation that this is him at his peak condition. I think it's the intangible things like patience, wisdom, tactical mind and inner peace that will give him the ability to keep up with Ozai.
However we cannot disregard the strong indications writers gave that Ozai was more powerful and Iroh likely couldn't have beaten him 1 v. 1. This is why I can't honestly give Iroh the win outright.
Jeong Jeong is a defensive powerhouse, but I just don't see enough offensive feats to give him a majority of wins here. He just doesn't have enough showing to support him taking down two firebenders of this caliber given his lack of offense. Maybe if he wore them down he could take a few.
Jeong Jeong 2/10
Iroh 4/10
Ozai 4/10
Ozai in a close one. I'd give him a tiny edge over Iroh, and a more noticeable one over Jeong Jeong. Jeong Jeong was good, but he lacked the offensive capability the other two showed. The best defense does make a good offense, but it isn't going to be enough to take a majority over two superior benders.
Nice analysis
You know how Jeong Jeong's walls were pushing tanks in Ba Sing Se? How exactly did he do that? Fire shouldn't push tanks, but his did
I think he can control the density of his flames allowing them to make constructs and make solid walls of flame. This is just my theory supported by my knowledge of the show/character.
Thanks.
I think that all 3 have the capability to win on any given day. I think Iroh is the most balanced and versatile of the 3 and I call him even with Ozai with the stipulation that this is him at his peak condition. I think it's the intangible things like patience, wisdom, tactical mind and inner peace that will give him the ability to keep up with Ozai.
However we cannot disregard the strong indications writers gave that Ozai was more powerful and Iroh likely couldn't have beaten him 1 v. 1. This is why I can't honestly give Iroh the win outright.
Jeong Jeong is a defensive powerhouse, but I just don't see enough offensive feats to give him a majority of wins here. He just doesn't have enough showing to support him taking down two firebenders of this caliber given his lack of offense. Maybe if he wore them down he could take a few.
Jeong Jeong 2/10
Iroh 4/10
Ozai 4/10
@thunderbolt30: Why do you think Ozai?
@comicvinepoozer1: Is there a problem with Avatar threads?
@arcus: I think he has more impressive feats the JJ (about equal with Iroh with lightning being excluded) and has a big advantage with flight over Iroh. JJ could also fly but he just doesn't have the showings to prove he could take a majority over Iroh or Ozai.
@thunderbolt30: Makes sense. Do you think the lack of morals makes a difference?
@arcus: never said there is a problem with the quality just the quantity
Jeong Jeong's firewall in Book 1 was comparable to the fire created by ozai and Iroh under the comet. That is an incredible degree of raw power and control. Meanwhile under the comet he was making massive walls of fire that dwarfed buildings that somehow had the physical presence to shove iron tanks around like toys. On top of that he had perfect control of his flight and was able to easily hover while he used his bending.
Jeong Jeong's biggest weakness isn't even a character thing. He just never got any good fight scenes so we have no idea what he's like when going all out. Based entirely off his couple showings he is definitely comparable to Ozai and Iroh.
I'll give Ozai the majority though, with Jeong Jeong and Iroh performing about the same.
Ozai 6/10, Iroh 2/10, Jeong Jeong 2/10
Ozai has the best combat feats of the three by a good margin and was suppose to be the most powerul firebender in the world at the time.
@thunderbolt30: Makes sense. Do you think the lack of morals makes a difference?
Not with Ozai and Jeong Jeong so much but I do think the lack of morals could make a difference in Iroh's case if lightning was in play. I think he is pretty close to the power and skill of Ozai.
Why not Jeong Jeong? He was just as opposed to unnecessary violance as Iroh was.
Why not Jeong Jeong? He was just as opposed to unnecessary violance as Iroh was.
He just lacks the feats to prove how deadly he could be without morals.
Why not Jeong Jeong? He was just as opposed to unnecessary violance as Iroh was.
He just lacks the feats to prove how deadly he could be without morals.
The fact he created the single greatest amount of fire in the series without the aid of the comet is enough by itself IMO.
@lunacyde: How does that help him against Iroh and Ozai though?
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