#151 Posted by The_Imperator (1985 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

Hulk withstanding planet-splitting energy blasts (incredible Hulk #112)


Is it just me, or is a cloud of foaming toxic gas really not that scary. This thing can supposedly blow up planets, but a little gas is its "most totally destructive form" ??????? :P :D

#152 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said, Orion wins easily

#153 Posted by spiderbuck (2452 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: Did you seriously say use Cap/BP as examples of why Hulk's strength triumphs over superior H2H?

Thor/Herc are the only ones even in the ballpark as far as strength goes. And Thor has gotten the upper hand on Hulk (albeit with Mjolnir) in more than one instance.

Show me Hulk withstanding a blast that was shown to destroy planets.

Herc has a couple of wins as well. Most notably in When Titans Collide.

#154 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18737 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2 said:

@blacharrt1: Did you seriously say use Cap/BP as examples of why Hulk's strength triumphs over superior H2H?

Thor/Herc are the only ones even in the ballpark as far as strength goes. And Thor has gotten the upper hand on Hulk (albeit with Mjolnir) in more than one instance.

Show me Hulk withstanding a blast that was shown to destroy planets.

Herc has a couple of wins as well. Most notably in When Titans Collide.

Herc never won in that.

#155 Edited by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio
@theacidskull said:

Herc never won in that.

Are we talking about Hulk vs Hercules? Because Hercules has never won against Hulk , not even once.

UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD AND DISCUSSION

TAS i have seen you argue at times that if someone cant knock out Hulk in a prolongued combat, hulk would eventually get angry enough and then he can beat or destroy anything, and people tend to ignore that saying there is no evidence for that claim .

I found a official publication which says exactly that :)

Official Marvel Index : Hulk says if Hulk gets made enough there is nothing hulk cannot defeat or Destroy

I thought you might find that useful in your future debates :)

#156 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18737 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

Herc never won in that.

Are we talking about Hulk vs Hercules? Because Hercules has never won against Hulk , not even once.

UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD AND DISCUSSION

TAS i have seen you argue at times that if someone cant knock out Hulk in a prolongued combat, hulk would eventually get angry enough and then he can beat or destroy anything, and people tend to ignore that saying there is no evidence for that claim .

I found a official publication which says exactly that :)

Official Marvel Index : Hulk says if Hulk gets made enough there is nothing hulk cannot defeat or Destroy

I thought you might find that useful in your future debates :)

I COULD KISS YOU RIGHT NOW! ( but i won't XD)

thank you soooo much for this! :D

also i agree on the herc part, people claim that herc has beaten hulk before, yet i've never seen a scan of this, EVER!

#157 Edited by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

Where did you get that statement? Is that from a character biography?

I think i have seen it but forgot where it's from.

#158 Edited by wkar (211 posts) - - Show Bio

Pierpat said Current(616) hulk and Pre New 52 Orion.

#159 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: I did actually bold the name of the book :p . Its from Official Marvel Index Hulk , which gives you a good summary of various story arc and major development in a certain character, alongside writers commentry and the character, what it is meant to represent, how the career progressed, and so on.

In short an entire book about Hulk and his stories without pictures.

#160 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3766 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

1. Your assertion about tk being able to repeal reality and matter isn't something all or most telekinetics can just do. Hellion and omega level telekinetic didn't just start manipulating thing on a molecular level, nor did jean grey or rachel summer or psylocke, they were trained and taught to do this at the x-mansion jean and rachel by Charles X. Hellion by Emma. It takes an extremely powerful telekinetic to be able to breakdown molecules much less reality itself, and depending on the telepath the ordeal can be very exhausting. Phoenix host level Jean could, Shaman at the height of his power could. Psionics is an essential energy force, it's equated to life energy of the Marvel universe and one of the most powerful. The Phoenix and the Gobin Force, and even the Power Cosmic are all forms of psionic energy. So to state simply because the Astro force is an essential element somehow makes it better. Sorry no, I'd equate it to the Enigma force, it can enhance abilities, and give people flight, and the ability shoot energy... yeah sounds more like the enigma force to me.

2. Your 2 - 7, aren't really something that would be a major factor at all. But i will address them in a bit. Orion in the scans posted able Superman being one-shotted while sundipped, he didn't one shot him at all. Superman was fighting the entire JLA from what it seemed and Orion kept getting knocked back, even Barda got some hits in on Superman. pt.2. Hulk's body depending on his Anger can, has, reject matter manipulation, from being Turned to stone from Grey Gargoyle, Kitty Pride, trying to fuse his hand and feet to the Ground, it simply didn't work, and the High Evolutionary trying to devolve the Hulk but his body rejecting it. And even in the case of Vector, Hulk's body has even rejected a poison that uses the Hulk's own gamma energy against him and he overpowered it with anger. Vision has tried on several occassion to affect Hulk's body on a molecular level and has failed both time, and got feedback from the process pt.3. Irrevelent, Hulk has been hit with every energy force you could think of, even magical, to by my knowledge none of them has instantly KO'ed him, it would take a large output to do so; You mentioned Zeus, Zeus didn't amp himself, he's a skyfather, he doesn't need to. When Zeus fought the Avenger the entire Avenger roster including Thor, Pulsar, She Hulk couldn't even phase him. And Hulk has fought gods and cosmic beings a like, which means high end magic and cosmic powers. I have mentioned several cosmic being that Hulk has tangoed with Phoenix force host, Quicksilver possessed by an elder God Chthon, Zom Strange, The Stranger, just to name a few.. cosmic power alone isn't enough to pull a win, so you need to prove that Orion has what it takes to do it .pt.4/5/6/7. Hulk has a track record for breaking unbreakable things most notably forcefields. From Dr. Doom, to Classic Dr. Strange, Hulk would break it. Hulk's speed increases a long with his Anger does (just because the ground can't support his mass moving at a fast rate, doesn't make him slow), he will be as fast as he needs to be, also Hulk's body adapts to survive a given situation, instantly. Tractor beam is pointless, Hulk has resisted the pull of a temporal vortex with his barehands.

I'm going to duck out of this thread, but it was an interesting discussion

My original assertion was that Vector is indeed quite powerful, it's just that Marvel continues to treat him and his U-Foe allies like chumps. Telekinetic manipulation on the levels you mentioned are certainly "Black Belt" level in their application. But ask a room full of self-professed Marvel fans to write down on paper who the top 5 TK'ers are and there will be few and far between who mention Vector's name. I don't blame the fans so much as I blame Marvel for not consistantly showing Vector (and his crew) at their true potential thereby rectifying this situation. He simply proved that sufficient force alone was enough to acomplish the damage he did (temporarilly): tearing flesh from the Hulk's body. Someone else who's powers are force specific (no heat) is Cyclops. If i'm not mistaken,Cyke's optic blast also proved that sufficient force alone is enough to flay flesh from the Hulk's body. Cyclops is powerful, but neither he nor Havok possess enough power to casually shoot planets out of orbit. Orion does. Just to be clear, I was'nt trying to claim the Astro-Force's superiority to any particular Marvel power source.I was actually seeking to find an equivalance between DC's cosmic powers and Marvel's because while their are some simularities, these are 2 totally different universes. Case in point, based on feats and/or what's said about them by people in their respective uviverses, i'd say: Phoenix Force= Ion/Adara/Parallax, Goblin Force= The Butcher/The Predator/Ophidian, maybe even Eclipso. I've never even heard of an "Enigma Force" until today, so I won't comment on that. The Power Cosmic is the closest thing in Marvel I can compare the Astro-Force to, even though it's a combination of both cosmic and mystical power. Listen, I know that "The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets". This would be a compelling arguement for most any other opponent he'd face, but against Orion, whose base strength levels have decisively put down Kalibak, Kryptoinans, and many,many more; The fact that he to can tap the Astro-Force to increase his own physical and energy based powers (the same way that Firelord or the Surfer can tap the Power Cosmic for the same ends) means that (best case scenario) they stalemate for all eternity. And that assuming this ever becomes a fist fight in the first place. Remember, Orion DESPISES Earth with 2 very important exceptions: "I will fight and die to protect the Earth if that is Highfather's Decree", and the fact that his stepbrother and sister-in-law live here. The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia nailed it when he said that bloodlusted, Orion cuts completely loose and atomizes us, the Hulk, our planet and our moon without losing a moments sleep over it. By the way, I brought up his tractor beams and how easily he can reverse their polarity to illustrate that by doing so he could replicate Cyclops' "clearing the lawn of Sentinels" feat several thousands of times over, either ko'ing the Hulk, killing him, or blasting him to Honolulu (for example) in one shot. He can and should win this confrontation and has a host options to do so.

@lvenger: Well I'm honoured I was part of the reason you joined this site to chime in on here. Your views are well explained and a pleasant thing to read on the battle forums

Thank you,sir. I try to be as reasoned in my analysis of the combatants, the battleground, and their skill levels/equipment as possible before posting. That approach is, in my opinion, the easiest way to prevent "fanboyism" from infecting my mindset (and therefore my posts). I hope to reach the upper ecshelon of posters on this site and make you guys proud!

#161 Posted by izbighulk (640 posts) - - Show Bio

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

#162 Edited by Lvenger (21233 posts) - - Show Bio

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

No because Orion wins. He's far more versatile, faster and skilled. So in short you should be saying can we agree that Orion takes the majority of wins?

#163 Edited by izbighulk (640 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@izbighulk said:

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

No because Orion wins. He's far more versatile, faster and skilled. So in short you should be saying can we agree that Orion takes the majority of wins?

Based on what ? Hulk fought people on Orions level before and won.

#164 Posted by Lvenger (21233 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@izbighulk said:

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

No because Orion wins. He's far more versatile, faster and skilled. So in short you should be saying can we agree that Orion takes the majority of wins?

Based on what ? Hulk fought people on Orions level before and won.

If you'd actually read this thread, you would know why Orion has a much greater chance of beating Hulk. I suggest you read through it again. And what are you basing your assertion on anyway? The fact Hulk's fought Thor, Sentry, Gladiator and other powerhouses? Thor is usually ended in a stalemate, Sentry was just brawling with him and the Gladiator fight had some PIS in it.

#165 Posted by izbighulk (640 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@izbighulk said:

@lvenger said:

@izbighulk said:

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

No because Orion wins. He's far more versatile, faster and skilled. So in short you should be saying can we agree that Orion takes the majority of wins?

Based on what ? Hulk fought people on Orions level before and won.

If you'd actually read this thread, you would know why Orion has a much greater chance of beating Hulk. I suggest you read through it again. And what are you basing your assertion on anyway? The fact Hulk's fought Thor, Sentry, Gladiator and other powerhouses? Thor is usually ended in a stalemate, Sentry was just brawling with him and the Gladiator fight had some PIS in it.

Yeah PIS the easiest way to dismiss it all.

#166 Posted by Lvenger (21233 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@izbighulk said:

@lvenger said:

@izbighulk said:

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

No because Orion wins. He's far more versatile, faster and skilled. So in short you should be saying can we agree that Orion takes the majority of wins?

Based on what ? Hulk fought people on Orions level before and won.

If you'd actually read this thread, you would know why Orion has a much greater chance of beating Hulk. I suggest you read through it again. And what are you basing your assertion on anyway? The fact Hulk's fought Thor, Sentry, Gladiator and other powerhouses? Thor is usually ended in a stalemate, Sentry was just brawling with him and the Gladiator fight had some PIS in it.

Yeah PIS the easiest way to dismiss it all.

So you're basically not answering my question. And you're not helping yourself by calling yourself 'izbighulk.' If you'd actually looked through this thread rather than basing your view on favoritism, you'd see Orion is the superior combatant in this fight.

#167 Edited by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

"If you'd actually looked through this thread rather than basing your view on favoritism, you'd see Orion is the superior combatant in this fight."

Says the guy with Superman as his username avatar.

#168 Posted by Amazonia_Kryptonia (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2: Um, Marvel has made it clear that Hulk is stronger than Thor or Herc. Where are you getting this from that they are stronger than Hulk?

#169 Posted by TDK_1997 (15081 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion.

#170 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid is durable enough to survive the destruction of Apokolips (Bizarro Comics referenced World's Funnest) and Orion killed him physically. Hulk wins a fistfight but loses if Orion fires the Astro-Force. Which is more likely?

#171 Edited by thanobomb1124 (2020 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Pre New 52 Orion:

Current(616) hulk:

Rules:

Morals off

no prep, no info

win by ko/incapacitation/death

Fight here(no people around):

really?

#172 Edited by spiderbuck (2452 posts) - - Show Bio
  
#173 Posted by moondogy42 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

Win by ko,if hulk can be put down by doom,why not orion?

Never read dc but according to feats and wiki he is unarguably powerful and to win the fight all he has to do is ko the hulk.If he just goes out full blast hulk would be laid out.

However i really hate hulk threads and how wishy washy his powers are,he is virtually unbeatable;for instance after ko i feel like he would just get back up madder than ever and just stomp orion.How can you stop something that never dies and grows stronger every time(dooms day for example)

#174 Posted by Lvenger (21233 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

"If you'd actually looked through this thread rather than basing your view on favoritism, you'd see Orion is the superior combatant in this fight."

Says the guy with Superman as his username avatar.

I figured someone would bring that up. The unfortunate difference is that I don't make the assertion that Superman wins when he's up against a much more powerful opponent that has far more of a chance of beating him like Wally West or Martian Manhunter. The same applies here, Hulk is outclassed by Orion so has less chance of beating him than vice versa as far as feats go for both characters.

#175 Edited by russellmania77 (15821 posts) - - Show Bio

orion is a heart breaker...

#176 Edited by Pierpat (3459 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanobomb1124: why? i don't actually get your question.

@wkar said:

Pierpat said Current(616) hulk and Pre New 52 Orion.

Thanks for reminding them.

Can we all just agree that Hulk wins

Well no.For what i've seen up to now, i'd give the win to orion.

#177 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3766 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: Well no.For what i've seen up to now, i'd give the win to orion.

You are correct, sir. Great thread, by the way! Kudos to you sir! Because It does'nt matter how mad the Hulk gets when the opponent he faces (Orion) starts this fight well above his base strength level and can increase his strength level and/or his energy powers output JUST AS EASILY as the Hulk can. People forget that Orion's Astro-Force is the direct manifestation of the wrath of the Source itself. That is the well he's drawing from, and it's a very deep well indeed. The Hulk is incapable of overpowering Orion. The Hulk can not out fight Orion. While superhuman, the Hulk still has nerve endings, nerve clusters, blood vessels, internal organs, etc.. Orion has an encylopedic knowledge of the human anatomy and both can and would exploit any of those things i've mentioned (I know I would). This is further evident by the scan at the top of the page: If toxic gas can so easily incapacitate the Hulk, why would'nt a rear naked choke (an "Air" choke), or a triangle choke (A "Blood" choke) applied by a super-fast, Class 100 martial artist accomplish the exact same thing? The OP clearly states that it's a bloodlusted God of war in this fight. That's scary, because under these rules, nothing is stopping Orion from delivering 50 or more Kryptonian+ level ball shots to the Hulk at Mach 4 or higher. Thats assuming this even becomes a fist fight in the FIRST PLACE, considering i've already detailed at least a half-dozen ways for Orion to win this bout with his hands in his pockets. Not even taking into account what Mother Box could do, independant of Orion's actions here. Under normal (non bloodlusted) conditions, this would be a very entertaining fight, but by taking the leash off the Dog of War, this really is a borderline spite.

#178 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

Herc never won in that.

Are we talking about Hulk vs Hercules? Because Hercules has never won against Hulk , not even once.

UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD AND DISCUSSION

TAS i have seen you argue at times that if someone cant knock out Hulk in a prolongued combat, hulk would eventually get angry enough and then he can beat or destroy anything, and people tend to ignore that saying there is no evidence for that claim .

I found a official publication which says exactly that :)

Official Marvel Index : Hulk says if Hulk gets made enough there is nothing hulk cannot defeat or Destroy

I thought you might find that useful in your future debates :)

This is irrelevant to any thread and to any debate. Hulk as all characters is as durable as his best feat says. And Hulk was never even closeto that.

#179 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio

Can we just all agree that the astro-harness looks nutty?

#180 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3766 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: orion is a heart breaker...

I see what you did there (LOL). On a side note, I just thought of something. Earlier on in this thread, it was said that Marvel's Eternals are the equivalent of DC's New Gods. That is incorrect to the point of being dangerous. For the record, I am a huge fan of all things Jack Kirby (R.I.P.), and my 2 favorite Eternals of all time are Zuras and Sersi (in that order).The Eternals (and the Deviants) were an experiment of the Celestials done on cavemen about a billion or so years ago. They were considered to be the absolute pinnacle of human evolution, more so than the Mutants, and the Superhuman Mutates who would come centuries later ( at least thats how it used to be, until Marvel began this "Omega Level Mutant" bullcrap). Despite their power, they were purposely placed on a rung or perhaps 2 below the prevailing Earth Pantheons like the Olympians and the Asgardians, though well above us mere mortals. The goal was for humans to transcend up to the level of an Eternal, because they were once just like us. The Gods of the Fourth World on the other hand, were NEVER mortals! They came into existance only after the civil war of the Old Gods nearly tore the universe apart. This created the Godwave which created (among other things) New Genesis, Apokolips and the rest of the Fourth World. While the Earth and extra-terrestial Pantheons in the DCU have always regarded the New Gods as equals (seeing as how both Zeus AND Highfather are members in good standing among the Quintessence), Marvel's Zeus seemed quite offended when the citizens of Olympia, including Zuras, "dared attack " him as though they had no right to consider themselves on equal footing to himself. Yeah, I had to set the record straight on that one because there are only 3 things that the New Gods and the Eternals have in common: 1.) They both were written and illustrated by Jack Kirby (Peace be upon him). 2.) They both channel cosmic power for their personal use. And 3.) I love them both:). The power scaling between the two, however, is just way to great to let that comment go uncorrected.

#181 Edited by russellmania77 (15821 posts) - - Show Bio
#182 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3766 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: Thank you mon ami! It's great to be the new guy around here, and recieve such accolades from 'Vine veterans! As I told Lvenger, i'm trying to bring a level head and intellectual honesty to every post I make. I'm convinced that's the vaccine for "fanboyism". Because if the Hulk had any chance at all of winning this fight, especially under the conditions of the OP, I'd have been the first to say so. In all caps. But you sir are a funny guy and I can tell we're gonna get along great!

#183 Edited by russellmania77 (15821 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: ya my main thing is to make people laugh while trying to throw my 2 cents in unless its a really good battle. sadley tho fanboism can get really really crazy on the vine at times, mostly if it has anything to do wit anime vs superhero stuff and even proof and logic wont change any minds. but ya man i believe we will get along great

#184 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3766 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: I had completely forgotten about the anime vs comic stuff:) I think most fanboyism comes from a lack of knowledge of the character(s) and what they're truely capable of, especially in match up when there truly are NO holds barred. Even the Discovery Channel will tell you, corner an animal, and they go from 0-100 on the dangerous scale; And very few get more dangerous than the Dog of War. You're a good dude russellmania77, Godspeed!

#185 Edited by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's review the people who have either beaten or given the Hulk a tough time.

Constrictor..no I'm not makin' that up.

Luke Cage/Iron Fist BEFORE their upgrades

Cap/Spiderman..they actually KO'd Hulk

Woodgod..some lame centaur lookin' dude.

The Thing

Now...do you really think Orion would struggle with ANYONE on this list? He could probably beat all of them together WITHOUT using the Astro Force.

Hulk at his highest showings makes it closer of course. But Orion going all and using Astro Force is too much.

#186 Edited by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

Are you trying to lowball Hulk?

Everyone has low showngs.

Orion needed help to catch a speeding rocket.

You don't here me calling Orion a slowpoke becasue i know that one bad showing does not entriely define him.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is:

Using a characters low showing for the character you don't favor while using high showing for the characters is not fair and honest debate.

Arguing on the basis of PIS(Plot induced Stupidity) and jobber arua is not fair and honest debate.

Jobber: Someone who makes someone else look good.

Jobber aura: Jobber aura is emitted by a character who is often the center of the plot or protected by the plot, allowing them to seem more powerful than they ordinarily are, and easily contend with and/or defeat much more powerful foes.

One oft-cited example is the Animated Teen Titans Robin, with feats such as defeating Cinderblock (a huge stone supervillain) with a quick series of blows when the entire team had previously been struggling against him. Of course, this "jobber aura" is only invoked against certain disliked characters. Board favorites are never considered to have a jobber aura.

Examples of severe cases of jobbing:

1) Wolverine owning Thor in a melee fight

2) Spiderman defeating Firelord

3) Captain America knocking out Hulk

4) Black Panther getting Silver Surfer into an armbar and overpowering him.

#187 Posted by TheTruthNerds (245 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: Orion matches that of supermans strength. That means he can max the earths weight and more. Hulk cant do that. Orion would finger flick him into the sun.

#188 Posted by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruthnerds:

Hulk has overcome energy that's sufficient to change the orbit of a planet, held a spacial singualirity, and destroyed an asteroid tiwce the size of earth with a punch.

Superman isn't stronger than Hulk and neither is Orion.

#189 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

One of Orion's best feats was containing and matching universal destroying energies with the Astro Force. He was tearing apart earth just by powering up on the Moon. Orion destroys Hulk.

#190 Edited by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@needlebay:

Some of Hulk's best strength feats are:

1. At Worldbreaker power-levels, the Hulk and (red she-hulk) made the earth quake merely by stand and could sink continents with a footstep.

obviously there's a difference in the amount of effort put into a punch and a footstep. Punches pack way more power and proportion speed than footsteps.

This means that Hulk can destroy planets in relative state of rest. He's so powerful that doesn't need to bother throwing a punch to bust a planet! (World War Hulk#5)

2. Hulk has contained the power of an entire universe created by Franklin Richards (Incredible Hulk #349-50)

3. Destroyed Nightmare's Realm with his sheer power alone (The Incredible Hulk #299)

4. Sent concussive energy through countless dimensions after clashing with Ironclad (Incredible hulk #305)

5. Hulk destroyed a planet, without directly touching it, just by the shockwaves created from clashing with a foe made just as powerful!!

The point is, the planet being destroyed isn't even his true power.but merely the smallest side effect of battle (Incredible Hulk's #634&635)

6. Hulk destroyed an entire universe with a thunderclap (Incredible Hulk #126)

#191 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruthnerds:

Hulk has overcome energy that's sufficient to change the orbit of a planet, held a spacial singualirity, and destroyed an asteroid tiwce the size of earth with a punch.

Superman isn't stronger than Hulk and neither is Orion.

Hulk braced the weight of a mountain range and was fatiguing rapidly. Superman braced the weight of the entire Earth for 5 days.

Which is more impressive?

Superman is stronger than Hulk by a large margin. For the record, I read Hulk way more than Superman. I don't even like Superman's character to be honest.

#192 Edited by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

Are you trying to lowball Hulk?

Everyone has low showngs.

Orion needed help to catch a speeding rocket.

You don't here me calling Orion a slowpoke becasue i know that one bad showing does not entriely define him.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is:

Using a characters low showing for the character you don't favor while using high showing for the characters is not fair and honest debate.

Arguing on the basis of PIS(Plot induced Stupidity) and jobber arua is not fair and honest debate.

Jobber: Someone who makes someone else look good.

Jobber aura: Jobber aura is emitted by a character who is often the center of the plot or protected by the plot, allowing them to seem more powerful than they ordinarily are, and easily contend with and/or defeat much more powerful foes.

One oft-cited example is the Animated Teen Titans Robin, with feats such as defeating Cinderblock (a huge stone supervillain) with a quick series of blows when the entire team had previously been struggling against him. Of course, this "jobber aura" is only invoked against certain disliked characters. Board favorites are never considered to have a jobber aura.

Examples of severe cases of jobbing:

1) Wolverine owning Thor in a melee fight

2) Spiderman defeating Firelord

3) Captain America knocking out Hulk

4) Black Panther getting Silver Surfer into an armbar and overpowering him.

Hulk has had many instance like this tho. And we can use Orion's low showings too. Show me someone on the level of Constrictor giving Orion problems.

Some of the high end feats given for Orion and Hulk in this thread are exaggerated though. I thought the Hulk busting the planet feat took place in another dimension...didn't Red She Hulk bust a planet in that dimension? And she got taken out by Elektra. Orion one shotting Superman is stretching the truth too from what I've seen.

If someone has instances they can show me in context of Orion one shotting Supes then I'll give that "feat" more credence.

#193 Edited by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

1. When it comes to power.....

A. According the feats, Superman is not more powerful than Hulk.

B. Hulk held a mountain in a weakened state.

2. You can't rightly argue a victory for Orion over the Hulk based enirely on low showings, PIS(Plot Induced Stupididity), and jobber aura. All of which happens to everyone.

Because everyone has these things happen to them, we don't base character power-levels off of them.

And we try to average a characters' showings becasue they are those feats are uasually done due to certain circumstances that don't happen all time.

I already gave you the feats Hulk has done when he wasn't weak. Ignoring Hulk's his good showing is and only acknoolweding his low showings and PIS moments is not how you have a fair and balanced debate.

And as I mentioned earlier, Superman and Superman-level people gets jobbed by less powerful characters all time.

If we go off only the low showings of DC powerhouses, They are'nt any better than street levelers. The same goes for any comic book character, really.

Street level people have evaded superman-level characters blows.

Cosmic enitites have jobbed to street levelers. Are you saying they are weak as well? Let's not have a double standard.

If we go by what we see for EVERY comic characters low showings, then we could say none of them are even superpowered.

#194 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk had help from rocket propelled springs for the asteroid feat. It's still impressive, but lets not omit facts.

#195 Posted by TheTruthNerds (245 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: ALl of you info is incorrect. If we are comparing any version of Superman then SA superman carried 10+ planets on his back from one side of the universe to the other. Superman has held a black hole in his hands superman has survived a blast that is comparable to 15 supernovas. Oh yea superman aslo destroyed a whole solar system with a sneeze. :)

GG

#196 Edited by TheTruthNerds (245 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: Mhm. Hulk has never held a black hole in his hands so what are you talking about. And superman has survived through way more things than the huilk has. Superman can finger flick hulks head off before he has a chance to get strong enough to tickle the man of steal.

Hulk almost got ripped apart by a black hole and thor saved him with his speed. If that is what you're talking about.

#197 Posted by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruthnerds:

Hulk Applies force to the space-time structure itself to prevent the Defenders from being absorbed into a fissure (Defenders #3)

Yes, Thor snatched Red hulk out of a black oles but the feat I mentioned about the black hole earlier was in regards to the Hulk and not Red Hulk.

#198 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

1. When it comes to power.....

A. According the feats, Superman is not more powerful than Hulk.

B. Hulk held a mountain in a weakened state.

2. You can't rightly argue a victory for Orion over the Hulk based enirely on low showings, PIS(Plot Induced Stupididity), and jobber aura. All of which happens to everyone.

Because everyone has these things happen to them, we don't base character power-levels off of them.

And we try to average a characters' showings becasue they are those feats are uasually done due to certain circumstances that don't happen all time.

I already gave you the feats Hulk has done when he wasn't weak. Ignoring Hulk's his good showing is and only acknoolweding his low showings and PIS moments is not how you have a fair and balanced debate.

And as I mentioned earlier, Superman and Superman-level people gets jobbed by less powerful characters all time.

If we go off only the low showings of DC powerhouses, They are'nt any better than street levelers. The same goes for any comic book character, really.

Street level people have evaded superman-level characters blows.

Cosmic enitites have jobbed to street levelers. Are you saying they are weak as well? Let's not have a double standard.

If we go by what we see for EVERY comic characters low showings, then we could say none of them are even superpowered.

I told you Orion's low showings are fair game. So show me an instance of him struggling with someone on the Constrctor's level or of Iron Fist/Cage BEFORE upgrades.

Refresh my memory...how was Hulk "weakened" when he held up that mountain range? I remember the heroes getting ambushed and having to retreat. I even remember Molecule Man moving the mountain range and dropping it on them. I don't, however, remember Hulk being weakened at the time.

How many instances has Surfer jobbed to someone like BP without the use of tech? Again..Hulk has quite a few of these showings.

#199 Posted by TheTruthNerds (245 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: Hulk has never held a black hole. Still dont see what you're talking about.

#200 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3766 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... This has turned into a "who has the raw power to KO who" thread. Arguements have been made for both combatants, but allow me to add something to this discussion. The Hulk's powerset is limited in comparison to Orion's and is dependant upon 2 things: Adrenaline and gamma radiation. Likewise, a fire requires heat, a fuel source, and oxygen to burn. If any of those things is removed, that fire dies out. While Orion's Astro-Force ("The Wrath of the Source") is primarilly a destructive power, Positive Astro-Force has proven on many occasions to being capable of manipulating all types of energy. Visible light, EM waves, UV rays, infrared, gravitons, magic, etc.. It's not unreasonable to think that he could bend gamma rays to his will also. Not only that, but the scan at the top of the page shows the Hulk decisively KO'ed/incaped via gas attack (2 of the 3 possible victory conditions). Both Orion and Mother Box have the ability to transmute all the air for 100's of miles in all directions into VX or hydrogen sulfide, or any number of other options. Since the Hulk's ability to emulsify the oxygen in his bloodstream is a gradual process, any sudden change to his enviromental conditions that takes place before the emulsification can complete will cause his body to shut down temporarilly (this was easily exploited by Namor in their inital encounter).

As far as adrenaline goes, the Hulk has a grave vunerability to adrenal suppression/dispersion. Mother Box is well known for her ability to multi-task, and in the past has used her powers while doing about a dozen other things to calm Orion's bloodrage to managable (read: non-homicidal) levels. A picosecond scan of the Hulk's powers, weaknesses, and his brain waves and she could easily calm the Hulk down right on the spot. This would result in a rapid and considerable decrease in the Hulk's strength as well as his durabilty. If either Orion or Mother Box converts the adrenaline in the Hulk's bloodstream into water vapor, he would be incapable of either becoming or remaining the Hulk in the first place. Not to mention, if instead of turning all the air in the state they're fighting in into poisonous gas, they could just as easily transmute it into nitrous oxide, giving the Hulk uncontrollable laughing fits; the single WORST thing you can do to a being who's power is derived specifically from his ability to get upset by stuff. Orion can do any or all of these things from the starting distance specified in the OP, without laying a hand on the Hulk.