#101 Posted by dum529001 (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

@@czarny_samael666:

Hulk's strength is about gamma energy enhancing his body's natural attributes. He adds mass but mass alone has very little to do with his power. It's all about energy.

Energy directly corresponds with the rate of motion.

Rate of motion is what is known as "speed".

Punches are made by contracting muscles and hurling the limbs of the body into motion.

#102 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@@czarny_samael666:

Hulk's strength is about gamma energy enhancing his body's natural attributes. He adds mass but mass alone has very little to do with his power. It's all about energy.

Energy directly corresponds with the rate of motion.

Rate of motion is what is known as "speed".

Punches are made by contracting muscles and hurling the limbs of the body into motion.

So Drax ripped star apart because he was moving many times FTL (just an exmaple)? Or Hulk was flying FTL when he and RSH destroyed a planet in Dark Dimension? No, this have nothing to do with their speed.

#103 Edited by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk has a chance

#104 Posted by Antonio_Blackheart (1542 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk

#105 Edited by dum529001 (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

1. Speed and force are not things that operate seperate from one another.

You talk about them as if they are.

The speed of an object rises in proportion to the force applied to it.

speed is used for punches and jumping.

2. The energy that destroyed the planet in the dark dimension was result from a combination of two things:

A. At worldbreaker power-levels, the Hulk and (red she-hulk) made the earth quake merely by stand and could sink continents with a footstep.

obviously there's a difference in the amount of effort put into a punch and a footstep. Punches pack way more power and proportion speed than footsteps.

That's what they can do in a relative sate of rest!!! The Worldbreak-Hulk can destroy a planet in a relative state of rest!!!

B. The energy of the clash was also because of how much they accelerated towards each other but it's less of a factor than the energy they were giving of in relative state of rest to begin with..

With he energy they were packing at world breaker levels, They wouldn't have to exert whole lot of their strength and the proportional acceleration that goes with it in order to get planet-busting results.

#106 Edited by thanobomb1124 (2015 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion would win.

#107 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12349 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days:

Your scans proved that he has super speed, but not its level.

"Not on it's level"? Who or what is "It" ....... I'm pretty sure you're not talking about Hulk's level so I'm not quite sure what you are referring to, especially since my scans proved that Orion, with the astro harness or not, is way above Hulk's level of speed.

@ancient_0f_days:

And not many scans of Orion were shown on CV.

Well, now they are .....

@ancient_0f_days:

As I said - his fight with Darkseid was denied by many people and IIRC there was a scan proving that DS wanted to lose that fight.

That's not the point, he showed exceptional combat speed in that encounter, speed that would render Hulk at a disadvantage in any case. Darkseid losing on purpose has nothing to do with it.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@ancient_0f_days:

Which people were defeated by Orion?

Lets go down the list then.......

Single handedly stomped a large group of Lightray's New Genesis warriors

He's stomped Mantis

He overpowered his combat trainer Valkyra in a sparring match, she is known as the greatest martial artist in the universe.

He defeated his brother Kalibak

Again

And again, this time Kalibak was amped by Darkseid

And again....

And......again.....

He's beaten a blood lusted insane Lightray (who basically is the embodiment of light, moving and reacting at its speed as well as being able to manipulate it fully)

He's got tons more battles that he's won, but to post them all would be very very tiresome....

#108 Posted by 80sBaby (1347 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

@nightflash said:

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

Not that Orion fights like a speedster, but none of these people used reflex speed against Hulk.

Sentry was completly crazy atm, Gladiator only wanted to BFR Hulk, but Hulk suprised him and punched him so hard (it was Mindless/Bannerless Hulk) that Gladiator was barely consciousness later. And still Hulk couldn't put him down on his own - he needed to use Glad's weakness to win the fight.

And Quicksilver lost because of popular CIS among speedsters - "I'm running fast and I'm closing my eyes, so my enemy would just put his arm in my way to KO me".

Similar tactic was used against flying Jack of Hearts. Hulk simply predicted where Jack will be when he flying through the country.

Spider-Man and Wolverine always made Hulk trouble exaclty because of speed. Rulk also didn't know what happened when Iron Man started second battle with him. Not to mention that both: Gladiator and Sentry actually took Hulk from the place he was standing.

1. Sentry's state of mind is irrelevant. He used speed and Hulk countered. Period.

2. Gladiator was had his ears boxed before he could BFR Hulk. Unless you're saying Glads was moving at a crawl, again, your point is irrelevant.

3. Gladiator was down when Hulk threw him into the reactor. He didn't even try to fight back and was dragged by Hulk, like a rag-doll. Read the fight again.

4. CIS is a cop-out answer. Pietro got swatted. End of story.

5. Wolverine/Spiderman give Hulk trouble because, if they didn't, they'd be dead. The fact that they survive against Hulk at all is PIS since he's tagged faster characters/objects. But I'm sure you will simply discount that.

@80sbaby said:

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

Orion wins because he is so much faster than Hulk that he won't be tagged, and by your logic, Wolverine and Spider-Man are faster than Quicksilver, Sentry and Gladiator cus they dodge Hulk consistently whereas Pietro, Bob and Kallark tend not to (jobbing), we both know Peter and Logan aren't faster than any of them but you are saying that Orion's speed doesn't matter since Hulk has tagged opponents with some level of super speed (when Sentry was clearly jobbing and allowing himself to be hit, and Gladiator is a brawler and barely uses his speed in combat). That's bullsh*t, and you probably know it, but in any case, Orion has reaction and combat feats that put him above Spider Man and Wolverine (lol) as well as travel speed feats on his Aero Disks and Astro Harness that put him above Quicksilver so Hulk isn't touching Orion whether you choose to accept it or not. Unlike Hulk, Orion isn't just a rage driven brawler and can choose to shoot him and devastate that part of the region in the process, BFR him with a casual Boom Tube, put Hulk in a magna lock to immobilize him or stomp him in combat utilizing his superior skill and speed. Orion already has a healing factor and that is amplified by his Mother Box, he can also generate Astro Force fields to shield him, not only that, but Orion has survived Mageddon point blank, a weapon of the Old Gods which ultimately ended their world. Even WBH would be hard pressed to put down Orion in a slug fest. Orion has also survived getting ambushed and shot up with Radion (New God Kryptonite) in all the most fatal areas of his body (leaving holes, missing chunks of flesh and cracks around his body) and after decimating a battalion of Darkseid's elite troopers and falling into one of the fire pits on Apokolips (which are stated to be as hot as a star) made a full recovery in a few pages by his own healing factor only using a mother box to restructure his face (his face turns ugly and fearsome when he gets pissed off and needs a mother box to calm him and turn his face back to normal. He's had half a city dropped on him by Lightray, he shook it off and decided to fight seriously. I understand Hulk may have "better" durability feats, but considering the fact that Orion doesn't even have to take hits from Hulk if he didn't want to and definitely could if he had to, it doesn't matter. He's overpowered Superman on two occasions (the first he laid Superman out with one blast of his astro force, the second he stalemated Superman but clearly had the upper hand), he even fought a sun dipped angry Superman to a standstill from India, to China, to Antarctica, then knocked him out to a desert. They fought around the world, and Orion was able to KO a sun dipped crazy Superman. Hulk will not win this at all......BFR, Incapacitation, Astro Force, or just a straight up fight, Orion dominates this with ease.

1. You haven't posted Orion doing anything that Quicksilver couldn't do. None of your scan have an actual peed given for how fast he's moving.

2. Hulk hit Sentry, Gladiator and QS while they were actually moving at super-speed. I'm not just saying Hulk can handle speedsters because he's fought them (like you've done for Lex and others.)

3. Travel speed means nothing here so...

4. What's the most powerful being Orion has used the Magna lock on? And how often does he use it as a move?

5. BFR is off the table. Read the OP.

6. Orion never KO'd sundipped Superman, to my knowledge. Scans, please.

7. Surviving Mageddon IS impressive. Not as impressive as surviving a blast capable of destroying a universe or an attack which repels reality itself, though. Like Hulk has.

#109 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3656 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: This isn't exactly true, Hulk by design is a brute, so although his actions as you said, may be repetitious, so are many other characters with expanded powersets, for example green lantern, thor, ironman, magneto, superman.. etc. So to simplify Hulk in such a way does a great discredit to a great many characters. As far as h2h goes, Hulk's showing have proved them very pointless, Thor, Ironfist, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain American, Ares, Hercules Thundra and many more are all well/top tier trained fighters (some of which have been training for centuries) and none of them can best the Hulk in a Melee Fight because one of Hulk many abilities is the ability to Adapt in a given situation, unlike Doomdays whom has to be killed in order to adapt. It's one of Hulk most underrated abilities the ability to adapt to survive and this has been Stated several times on panel. So h2h training with the Hulk is useless. So it's not a factor. Vector actually attacked the Hulk more than once, in one of the first Vector's powers completely repelled reality itself and Hulk resisted it completely in the second He repelled the skin off the Hulk, but Hulk's Healing factor is constant even on a molecular level and as his anger and frustration grew so did his resistance to the attack which is why it didn't do further damage to him. So for you to state that the instances are somehow showing and inconsistency doesn't really make sense his power set didn't change, only his method of attack. So third point is counter by the last few showings of Hulk, It is pretty impossible to drain him now, disregarding Loeb force, but even that stopped working. It is highly unlikely that it will work on current Hulk, who is quite powerful and also uses Bannertech. Which would gives him additional shielding and teleportation

There's lots here, so.. I don't dislike "brutes" per se, sometimes they can be very entertaining. Considering that Dr. Banner can't even transform into the Hulk without first being bloodlusted (unless you include "Professor Hulk" from the Parthenon era or the "Grey Hulk" from the McFarlane era) all of his feats are him bloodlusted. You mentioned Cap,Iron Fist Wolverine,and Black Panther are all better fighters than the Hulk (seconded), but truth be told NONE of them should ever be pitted against him in a h2h type confrontation. On second thought, maybe Black Panther could/should due to all of the very dangerous tech Wakandans have access to; but I must correct you on one very important detail : as a former Sailor in the US Navy, i've not only kickboxed since I was 12, but I've also trained extensively in USMC Combatatives taught to me by my uncle who was a Staff Sergeant in USMC during Operation Desert Storm as well as Marines who were stationed at the various Navy Bases I was assigned to. H2H training is NEVER a non factor in a fist fight! As a man of peace, i'd rather not fight anyone, but i'm well aware of the damage I can do to some guy who picks a fight with me because he's had to much to drink or if he's got way more pride and/or ego than common sense. I can't benchpress anywhere near what Orion can, and I certainly don't have access to a fundamental universal power as my birthright like Orion does. Listen, Banner's smart. No arguement here. But I simply refuse to believe that his tech is >/= Forth World tech & magic. That said, I ask you this : Orion operates on a power level and has access to a power source the likes of which Vector could only dream about. So what's stopping a bloodlusted Orion (who is very verbal about his dislike of the planet Earth and the humans who live here) from duplicating a feat acomplished by a throwaway (judging how Marvel treats him and the other U-Foes) villain times 100,000 over taking the planet and all of us with him?

#110 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12349 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

1. You haven't posted Orion doing anything that Quicksilver couldn't do. None of your scan have an actual peed given for how fast he's moving.

Yeah I have...chasing Mr Miracle in the Black Racer suit on Aero disks when it was stated on a previous page that they were moving near light speed, flying to the other side of New Genesis on Aero Disks in a few panels, annihilating a space armada on one panel ..... oh yeah, Quicksilver can definitely to all of that *rollseyes*

@80sbaby said:

2. Hulk hit Sentry, Gladiator and QS while they were actually moving at super-speed. I'm not just saying Hulk can handle speedsters because he's fought them (like you've done for Lex and others.)

Post it, cus what i've seen of each of those fights, i didn't see Sentry use superspeed in combat, nor Gladiator.....and that last part is out of context, off topic, and completely irrelevant....oh yeah and it's flat out untrue....I've done nothing of the sort.

@80sbaby said:

3. Travel speed means nothing here so...

Travel speed means a lot when you can fly and dodge your opponent solely on the speed of travel, but of course you thought this was a slug fest lol .... it's not, Orion can fly around and shoot Hulk all day long if he wanted to, not that he has to since he can dance around Hulk all day and speed blitz him.

@80sbaby said:

4. What's the most powerful being Orion has used the Magna lock on? And how often does he use it as a move?

Orion used it to move a sky scraper sized "Hell-Boarer", I've seen it done once since he usually doesn't have his Astro force and motherbox stunted like they were in that scenario, but in any case it's still a ready and available tool

@80sbaby said:

5. BFR is off the table. Read the OP.

OP says win by Death/KO/Incapacitation, doesn't specifically say no bfr, nor the specifications of how one can be killed, KO'd or incapacitated, a depending on where a boom tube opens up to, either one of those can happen. Orion can simply open a boom tube to the source wall and imprison Hulk there .... that's incapacitation right there. Why don't YOU read the OP and consider the abilities of the mother box next time you come to such a narrow minded conclusion.

@80sbaby said:

6. Orion never KO'd sundipped Superman, to my knowledge. Scans, please.

as you wish...

Even though Barda helped out by stunning Superman, Orion gave the final blow which knocked Kal from Antarctica to a desert, considering the fact that Superman wasn't up right after he landed and almost everyone was there a short while after to restrain him, I'd say he was down long enough to consider it a KO. (and it is clear that Superman is amped, and out of character, Wonder Woman saying that they all couldn't hold him down for long makes it clear, cus Martian Manhunter on any other day can do it himself, Wonder Woman has held back a bloodlusted Superman as well on several occasions, Kyle potentially could given enough time since he was able to stabilize several planets at once, but Wonder Woman is stating that they wouldn't be able to, in the previous issues after Dominus's defeat, Supes took several trips to the sun and came back batsh#t cazy, this was also due to Dominus's influence)

@80sbaby said:

7. Surviving Mageddon IS impressive. Not as impressive as surviving a blast capable of destroying a universe or an attack which repels reality itself, though. Like Hulk has.

Well, Hulk has been handled by Thor and Silver Surfer as well as other forces much lesser than that of a universal/reality repelling assault, so I'm not sure if that is even relevant or in the right context. Also, Orion's Astro force field has deflected the Omega Beams, Kalibak's Beta Club's blasts and a Leviathan which exploded ....

In any case, Orion wins regardless of his durability.

#111 Edited by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: I said Orion is smarter than Hulk not Banner. ABC logic does work here since if Orion is shown to be on par with Superman who is stronger than Hulk, Orion>Hulk.

#112 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion has speed and his mother box among other things to beat hulk.

#113 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

I am showing You, that Your logic is flawed, since I can give You exactly the same examples about people who aren't fast.

None of Hulk's enemies used their speed wisely. And in none of Your scans any of them used it. Not too mention that half of them is completly useless.

Just try to read Your own scans:

Surfer was holding Hulk - no moment with using speed.

Hyperion was attacked from behind - no sign of using super speed.

New Hyperion and Hulk punching each other - no sign of any super reflex

Hulk hurting Hyperion by thunderclap - if Hyperion would use his speed, he would run from it, since sound's speed is lower than his own. He wasn't even trying doing it.

Hyperion and Hulk matching their strength - NO reason to use speed, if they were matching STRENGTH.

No sign of great reflex there.

Again with your PIS nonsense, this is just ignored because again there is too much consistency to be PIS on the part of the Hulk.

So, now one of Hulk's power is making his enemies to forgot their powers! LOL!!

@dum529001:

You're using our pshysic for them, while speed and mass isn't base of comic's characters strength.

Besides, You've jumped into debate that is clearley about Hulk's reflex, not Orion's one. I am not supporting either of characters here.

No you haven't shown that my logic is flawed, what you have done is made personal statements of how you feel certain instances played out and whether they were legitimate or not by claiming PIS, CIS, or WIS. You nothing but your speculation to back it up. None of which takes away from the fact that Hulk's history of constantly fighting people with superspeed is not a real handicap at all. So I'm sorry you don't like the instances that a lot of this happened but the fact is they happened, and the Hulk either stalemated or prevailed either way my point was made a long time ago. So there is no point in keep going over this.

Your interpretations of the scans are interesting as well. When i mentioned Namor and Surfer is was for reaction not outright speed, their agility and strength were shown in that scan. 1. with trying to restrain the Hulk. 2. By the time they recovered from being thrown he had already leap away.

The Hyperion scan, was from a couple instances and I already explain the reason for them. The contrast between the Gladiator fight and the words on the panel about the shockwave, i don't know why you are a choosing to ignore that. But I already pointed out the fact that in both clashes superspeed was used to achieved the same outcome, however in the Hyperion & Gladiator fight it stated they were moving at nanoseconds, in the Hulk fight it's shown those two speeding towards eachother for the very same affect.

New Hyperion was in contrast with old Hyperion which again i already explained why i showed these, if you don't understand it you should simply say so. It was to show consistency and that it wasn't a fluke that Hulk could easily trade blows with Hyperion. Regardless of what speed Hyperion is moving Hulk doesn't seem to have a problem fighting him. Although in terms of speed Old Hyperion and New Hyperion should have to the same combat speed which is nanoseconds.

And again Makkari did not achieve light speed until the Second World's racest race in Quasar, where he lost the first to Flash Forward, and was picked for the Second which was a race around the solar system which was when he went light speed.

So now that that is really cleared up, You can state that people used their speed irresponsibly and that may be true,however you haven't proven PIS, CIS, or otherwise in the case of Hulk actually matching these people in combat and in their speed which again he has shown to do. Because i don't like repeating myself over and over again, we can agree to disagree whether he can match the people previous mention, but we completely disagree who is showings of consistency being valid.

#114 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@

@

@blacharrt1: This isn't exactly true, Hulk by design is a brute, so although his actions as you said, may be repetitious, so are many other characters with expanded powersets, for example green lantern, thor, ironman, magneto, superman.. etc. So to simplify Hulk in such a way does a great discredit to a great many characters. As far as h2h goes, Hulk's showing have proved them very pointless, Thor, Ironfist, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain American, Ares, Hercules Thundra and many more are all well/top tier trained fighters (some of which have been training for centuries) and none of them can best the Hulk in a Melee Fight because one of Hulk many abilities is the ability to Adapt in a given situation, unlike Doomdays whom has to be killed in order to adapt. It's one of Hulk most underrated abilities the ability to adapt to survive and this has been Stated several times on panel. So h2h training with the Hulk is useless. So it's not a factor. Vector actually attacked the Hulk more than once, in one of the first Vector's powers completely repelled reality itself and Hulk resisted it completely in the second He repelled the skin off the Hulk, but Hulk's Healing factor is constant even on a molecular level and as his anger and frustration grew so did his resistance to the attack which is why it didn't do further damage to him. So for you to state that the instances are somehow showing and inconsistency doesn't really make sense his power set didn't change, only his method of attack. So third point is counter by the last few showings of Hulk, It is pretty impossible to drain him now, disregarding Loeb force, but even that stopped working. It is highly unlikely that it will work on current Hulk, who is quite powerful and also uses Bannertech. Which would gives him additional shielding and teleportation

There's lots here, so.. I don't dislike "brutes" per se, sometimes they can be very entertaining. Considering that Dr. Banner can't even transform into the Hulk without first being bloodlusted (unless you include "Professor Hulk" from the Parthenon era or the "Grey Hulk" from the McFarlane era) all of his feats are him bloodlusted. You mentioned Cap,Iron Fist Wolverine,and Black Panther are all better fighters than the Hulk (seconded), but truth be told NONE of them should ever be pitted against him in a h2h type confrontation. On second thought, maybe Black Panther could/should due to all of the very dangerous tech Wakandans have access to; but I must correct you on one very important detail : as a former Sailor in the US Navy, i've not only kickboxed since I was 12, but I've also trained extensively in USMC Combatatives taught to me by my uncle who was a Staff Sergeant in USMC during Operation Desert Storm as well as Marines who were stationed at the various Navy Bases I was assigned to. H2H training is NEVER a non factor in a fist fight! As a man of peace, i'd rather not fight anyone, but i'm well aware of the damage I can do to some guy who picks a fight with me because he's had to much to drink or if he's got way more pride and/or ego than common sense. I can't benchpress anywhere near what Orion can, and I certainly don't have access to a fundamental universal power as my birthright like Orion does. Listen, Banner's smart. No arguement here. But I simply refuse to believe that his tech is >/= Forth World tech & magic. That said, I ask you this : Orion operates on a power level and has access to a power source the likes of which Vector could only dream about. So what's stopping a bloodlusted Orion (who is very verbal about his dislike of the planet Earth and the humans who live here) from duplicating a feat acomplished by a throwaway (judging how Marvel treats him and the other U-Foes) villain times 100,000 over taking the planet and all of us with him?

You run down and comparison as a navy seal makes no sense at all. If you stated simply that maybe ironfist or Captain should never try to melee Hulk that would be a good point. But to state that Gods like say Thor, Hercules, or Ares, who have literally trained for thousands of years couldn't pull this off that doesn't make sense. Also the Eternals are one of the oldest races on Earth they known the entirety of human history and some know all their fighting styles, it would still prove useless. You simply don't fight the Hulk H2h, if you can show someone using h2h combat who wasn't a skyfather beating the Hulk that would be great.

Are you saying the Orion can repeal reality or has don't that to something on a molecular level? Are you saying that He has used enough force to move a planet out of orbit or has destroyed a planet the size of earth or even twice that? If Orion has done that then he could hurt the Hulk at the very least. But how long could he keep that up, where is his stamina?

#115 Posted by Amazonia_Kryptonia (23 posts) - - Show Bio

OK. I need help here. Are we arguing that Hulk can't beat Orion? When Sentry would probably kick Orion's teeth in, and Hulk pretty much made Sentry burn himself out? This is a good, close fight with Orion taking a small edge. 6/10 Orion.

#117 Edited by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

If the Astro-force can't cut it, Orion stands ZERO chance of defeating Hulk. It's his biggest attack, capable of devastating planets, deflecting the Omega Beams, and oneshotting Superman. Hulk is stronger, Hulk is more durable, but a bloodlusted Orion would very likely open with an all out blast of Astro-force. I give Hulk his due but let's be real here.

#118 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3656 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: He oneshotted Superman with an Atroforce blast. That's enough to hurt Hulk, no doubt

Agreed.

@the_last_son_of_czarnia: a bloodlusted Orion would very likely open with an all out blast of Astro-force. I give Hulk his due but let's be real here.

Seconded.

@blacharrt1:

You run down and comparison as a navy seal makes no sense at all. If you stated simply that maybe ironfist or Captain should never try to melee Hulk that would be a good point. But to state that Gods like say Thor, Hercules, or Ares, who have literally trained for thousands of years couldn't pull this off that doesn't make sense. Also the Eternals are one of the oldest races on Earth they known the entirety of human history and some know all their fighting styles, it would still prove useless. You simply don't fight the Hulk H2h, if you can show someone using h2h combat who wasn't a skyfather beating the Hulk that would be great.

Are you saying the Orion can repeal reality or has don't that to something on a molecular level? Are you saying that He has used enough force to move a planet out of orbit or has destroyed a planet the size of earth or even twice that? If Orion has done that then he could hurt the Hulk at the very least. But how long could he keep that up, where is his stamina?

For the sake of full disclosure, while my Division provided logistical and operational support to them, I am not a SEAL. It was my great pleasure to serve along side them and spar with them, these brave men truly are "Damn Few".That said, I think you've misunderstood my position. I'll try again. We agree that street levelers should'nt be pitted against people anywhere near the Hulk's weight class. That's suicidal. I was saying (and you used Thor, Herc, and Ares as examples) someone approximately or actually in the Hulk's weight class SHOULD defeat him soundly if their training has shown them where to hit (nerve endings/clusters, blood vessels, joint manipulation, internal organs, etc...). I'm well aware of the Hulk's superhuman strength and durability, but he still possesses these things, and someone in his bracket with the proper training should always 7/10 a h2h confrontation with him (despite how rarely Marvel Comics chooses to showcase this). I was saying that Vector proved quite capable of doing tremendous damage to the Hulk( he did heal, yes), my point was that Orion can match and overwhelm everything that Vector can do. Bannertech is awesome stuff, it is not >/= Forth World tech. So,what's stopping Mother Box from doing a pre/mid fight analysis of the Hulk (thereby discovering he's emmiting/absorbing G-Rays) and converting them into soundwaves or UV rays? If that happens, the Hulk will instantaneously revert back to 104lb Bruce Banner vs a bloodthirsty God of War. Nothing good comes of that. Orion's stamina is the stuff legends are made of. It would take weeks for him to even begin to feel the first signs of fatique. The OP says Pre-New 52 Orion. That would also include Red Orion, who could use the ALE to time travel back to when all 4 of Dr Banner's grandparents were in kindergarten and convert their blood to sulfuric acid right there in the sandbox. Even before he got the ALE, this is a guy who set himself on fire just to fight a White Martian who had pissed him off. It was Barda's suggestion that he douse those flames, he never once said they bothered him. Take Orion off his leash and BAD things happen.

#119 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

That was a much weaker version of Superman though. The event in question took place in Superman Confidential which was a look back at Superman's first meeting of the New Gods in Post Crisis continuity. Aside from that one instance, he's never oneshotted Superman with the Astro Force.

#120 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3656 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: That was a much weaker version of Superman though. The event in question took place in Superman Confidential which was a look back at Superman's first meeting of the New Gods in Post Crisis continuity. Aside from that one instance, he's never oneshotted Superman with the Astro Force.

An excellent point, mon ami. I'd forgotten that the older a Kryptonian gets, the more durable/powerful they become. In fact, Lex Luthor touched on this during Kingdom Come (set some 30 or so years from now) when he said "Kryptonite just does'nt pack the punch it used to." But as far as Orion vs Hulk is concerned, Orion has the brute strength to take this. Despite the fact that a H2H confrontation is the least of the options open to him to finish this in decisive fashion. Still, great call on the Superman Confidential angle. Kudos to you sir!

#121 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: He oneshotted Superman with an Atroforce blast. That's enough to hurt Hulk, no doubt

Agreed.@the_last_son_of_czarnia: a bloodlusted Orion would very likely open with an all out blast of Astro-force. I give Hulk his due but let's be real here.

Seconded.

@blacharrt1:

You run down and comparison as a navy seal makes no sense at all. If you stated simply that maybe ironfist or Captain should never try to melee Hulk that would be a good point. But to state that Gods like say Thor, Hercules, or Ares, who have literally trained for thousands of years couldn't pull this off that doesn't make sense. Also the Eternals are one of the oldest races on Earth they known the entirety of human history and some know all their fighting styles, it would still prove useless. You simply don't fight the Hulk H2h, if you can show someone using h2h combat who wasn't a skyfather beating the Hulk that would be great.

Are you saying the Orion can repeal reality or has don't that to something on a molecular level? Are you saying that He has used enough force to move a planet out of orbit or has destroyed a planet the size of earth or even twice that? If Orion has done that then he could hurt the Hulk at the very least. But how long could he keep that up, where is his stamina?

For the sake of full disclosure, while my Division provided logistical and operational support to them, I am not a SEAL. It was my great pleasure to serve along side them and spar with them, these brave men truly are "Damn Few".That said, I think you've misunderstood my position. I'll try again. We agree that street levelers should'nt be pitted against people anywhere near the Hulk's weight class. That's suicidal. I was saying (and you used Thor, Herc, and Ares as examples) someone approximately or actually in the Hulk's weight class SHOULD defeat him soundly if their training has shown them where to hit (nerve endings/clusters, blood vessels, joint manipulation, internal organs, etc...). I'm well aware of the Hulk's superhuman strength and durability, but he still possesses these things, and someone in his bracket with the proper training should always 7/10 a h2h confrontation with him (despite how rarely Marvel Comics chooses to showcase this). I was saying that Vector proved quite capable of doing tremendous damage to the Hulk( he did heal, yes), my point was that Orion can match and overwhelm everything that Vector can do. Bannertech is awesome stuff,it is not >/= Forth World tech. So,what's stopping Mother Box from doing a pre/mid fight analysis of the Hulk (thereby discovering he's emmiting/absorbing G-Rays) and converting them into soundwaves or UV rays? If that happens, the Hulk will instantaneously revert back to 104lb Bruce Banner vs a bloodthirsty God of war. Nothing good comes of that. Orion's stamina is the stuff legends are made of. It would take weeks for him to even begin to feel the first signs of fatique. The OP says Pre-New 52 Orion. That would also include Red Orion, who could use the ALE to time travel back to when all 4 of Dr Banner's grandparents were in kindergarten and convert their blood to sulfuric acid right there in the sandbox. Even before he got the ALE, this is a guy who set himself on fire just to fight a White Martian who had pissed him off. It was Barda's suggestion that he douse those flames, he never once said they bothered him. Take Orion off his leash and BADthings happen.

How is it you are trying to compare Vector's ability to repeal molecules to Orion? What i asked you very simply was has he ever done a feat like that. 1. of which repealed reality itself which the Hulk was able to push through, and the other Repealing the Hulk's very Molecules, because if he hasn't then the comparison is completely invalid. How can you say he can match the output when the powers and application is something he has never done?

the instant revert is again incorrect, and i already stated why previously, so i will not go over why that is highly unlikely now. Several people have tried to convert Post Planet Hulk but it hasn't worked, and even after WWHs. And Banner and Hulk are on the same page so Banner can instantly transform back to the Hulk. This is basically the premise of indestructible Hulk, they are now working to a more common goal. Where as before Banner was trying to kill the Hulk.

I never said Bannertech was on the same level as New God tech, however it has proven that it's more than capable of Defending and teleportation even against High End Magic users and Avatars. The history of the tech simply proves that, which is in my previous references. Bannertech is again powered by Gamma Energy which the Hulk has an endless supply of. So Motherbox maybe able to analyze the technology and even render it useless, however Orion would be under constant assault from the Hulk and would have little to no Time to try and Drain him. If he hasn't pull this off at the very beginning of the match and more amped version of Hulk would make it Impossible.

For Orion to timetravel in the middle of a fight would count as a self BFR, that would be a lost. Hulk has taken Baths in Lava, trips to planet's Cores... being on fire is not really impressive. Hulk fed Suneaters, several of them at once in a weakened state, that's Impressive.

#122 Posted by Pierpat (3356 posts) - - Show Bio

For whoever talked about boom-tube, i suggest reading OP better.

Happy to see this is not one-sided as i supposed when i created it.

#123 Posted by emmbro30 (249 posts) - - Show Bio

If Orion can keep his distance then he may just win, but if Hulk gets his hands on him then it is all over for Orion.

#124 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

Short, because You're still missing the point:

None of mentioned Hulk's enemies used their reflex agaisnt Hulk, so they are irrlevant to this fight.

#125 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: That was a much weaker version of Superman though. The event in question took place in Superman Confidential which was a look back at Superman's first meeting of the New Gods in Post Crisis continuity. Aside from that one instance, he's never oneshotted Superman with the Astro Force.

An excellent point, mon ami. I'd forgotten that the older a Kryptonian gets, the more durable/powerful they become. In fact, Lex Luthor touched on this during Kingdom Come (set some 30 or so years from now) when he said "Kryptonite just does'nt pack the punch it used to." But as far as Orion vs Hulk is concerned, Orion has the brute strength to take this. Despite the fact that a H2H confrontation is the least of the options open to him to finish this in decisive fashion. Still, great call on the Superman Confidential angle. Kudos to you sir!

Why thank you for the compliment! And a great insight on the Orion vs Hulk battle. There are indeed many ways for Orion to win this given the advantages he possesses.

#126 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion slaughters.

#127 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

Short, because You're still missing the point:

None of mentioned Hulk's enemies used their reflex agaisnt Hulk, so they are irrlevant to this fight.

i see you are still going with the unproven assumptions i see. to each his own.

#128 Edited by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: That was a much weaker version of Superman though. The event in question took place in Superman Confidential which was a look back at Superman's first meeting of the New Gods in Post Crisis continuity. Aside from that one instance, he's never oneshotted Superman with the Astro Force.

An excellent point, mon ami. I'd forgotten that the older a Kryptonian gets, the more durable/powerful they become. In fact, Lex Luthor touched on this during Kingdom Come (set some 30 or so years from now) when he said "Kryptonite just does'nt pack the punch it used to." But as far as Orion vs Hulk is concerned, Orion has the brute strength to take this. Despite the fact that a H2H confrontation is the least of the options open to him to finish this in decisive fashion. Still, great call on the Superman Confidential angle. Kudos to you sir!

Point taken, regarding the Astroforce blast having been used against a weaker version of Superman, but he did one-shot backhand a bloodlusted Supes to end their fight in Action Comics Cross Over Legends Chapter 19. And this version was not weakened because Darkseid had already restored his powers.

#129 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@blacharrt1:

Short, because You're still missing the point:

None of mentioned Hulk's enemies used their reflex agaisnt Hulk, so they are irrlevant to this fight.

i see you are still going with the unproven assumptions i see. to each his own.

I am not, You have to prove that they use their reflex speed, not me that they didn't. In similar way that if I would say that I can run 100 km/h, I would have to prove it, not You that I can't.

#130 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet said:

@lvenger: That was a much weaker version of Superman though. The event in question took place in Superman Confidential which was a look back at Superman's first meeting of the New Gods in Post Crisis continuity. Aside from that one instance, he's never oneshotted Superman with the Astro Force.

An excellent point, mon ami. I'd forgotten that the older a Kryptonian gets, the more durable/powerful they become. In fact, Lex Luthor touched on this during Kingdom Come (set some 30 or so years from now) when he said "Kryptonite just does'nt pack the punch it used to." But as far as Orion vs Hulk is concerned, Orion has the brute strength to take this. Despite the fact that a H2H confrontation is the least of the options open to him to finish this in decisive fashion. Still, great call on the Superman Confidential angle. Kudos to you sir!

Point taken, regarding the Astroforce blast having been used against a weaker version of Superman, but he did one-shot backhand a bloodlusted Supes to end their fight in Action Comics Cross Over Legends Chapter 19. And this version was not weakened because Darkseid had already restored his powers.

Was that the Brainiac crossover? I think Orion was involved in that. Is that what you mean or are you referring to something else?

#131 Edited by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@spiderbuck said:

@heraldofganthet said:

@lvenger: That was a much weaker version of Superman though. The event in question took place in Superman Confidential which was a look back at Superman's first meeting of the New Gods in Post Crisis continuity. Aside from that one instance, he's never oneshotted Superman with the Astro Force.

An excellent point, mon ami. I'd forgotten that the older a Kryptonian gets, the more durable/powerful they become. In fact, Lex Luthor touched on this during Kingdom Come (set some 30 or so years from now) when he said "Kryptonite just does'nt pack the punch it used to." But as far as Orion vs Hulk is concerned, Orion has the brute strength to take this. Despite the fact that a H2H confrontation is the least of the options open to him to finish this in decisive fashion. Still, great call on the Superman Confidential angle. Kudos to you sir!

Point taken, regarding the Astroforce blast having been used against a weaker version of Superman, but he did one-shot backhand a bloodlusted Supes to end their fight in Action Comics Cross Over Legends Chapter 19. And this version was not weakened because Darkseid had already restored his powers.

Was that the Brainiac crossover? I think Orion was involved in that. Is that what you mean or are you referring to something else?

It was actually from when Darkseid convinced Clark that Clark was DS's son, and that in killing Orion he was "saving" his father from an assassin.

Three pages later Superman was still groggy and trying to compose himself, and that's when Orion used motherbox to bring him back to his senses.

#132 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

winner is by death ko or incapacitation as stated by the OP. Boom tube to a black hole. Hulk would be incapacitated there. Orion wins.

#133 Posted by War_Hulk_Kills_Sentry2 (559 posts) - - Show Bio

hulk stomps

#134 Posted by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though it was a weaker Superman, it wasn't an all out blast. An all out blast would've caused massive collateral damage.

#135 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3656 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: Vector's single superpower is TK (the ability to mentally manipulate gravitons). He's not regarded as the most powerful Tk user in his universe. He still proved that it is possible with enough force/firepower that you can gravely injure or possibly disentigrate the Hulk (albeit temporarily in his case). Orion's Astro-Force is a universal power source that is remarkably powerful and versitile. Orion can and/or has used the Astro-Force to do at least the following: 1.)Draw upon the Astro-Force to continually increase his physical power (much like Zeus did during his bout with the Hulk, Galactus' heralds also posses this talent),2.) Matter manipulation ( as shown in the scan posted by Ancient-of-Days),3.) Control over the EM spectrum which would include G-rays (even while outside forces sought to dampen his power, he still lifted and transported a megaton Hell-Bore),4.) Create powerful force fields around himself and others (as well as inside them),5.) Move and react at supersonic speeds on foot (scores faster on Aerodisks or with the Harness), 6.) Shoot blasts of cosmic energy at a Star Conquerer probe the size of the Hudson Bay, only to be begged to stop by the rest of the JLA because the intensity of his attack threatened to destroy all life on Earth and then the planet itself, 7.) Manipulate gravitons (Orion has created tractor beams strong enough to hold Starcruisers in place. The polarity of a tractor beam is easily reversed and can generate tremendous concussive force without any heat signature), etc,etc.. Add in his martial arts skills to his Kryptonian one-shottable strength ( thank you spiderbuck :), not to mention any and everything Mother Box is capable of, and this is a runaway victory for Orion. As far as Red Orion bfr'ing himself, I thought about that and the OP did'nt DQ BFR. But i'll meet you halfway: Space/time manipulation is a two way street: Orion does'nt have to travel back in time 80 years. A bloodlusted Orion could pluck all 4 of Banner's grandparents from the time stream directly to the battle site and kill them right in front of their future grandson. As the Hulk (and Banner along with him) vanishes into thin air,this fight will have reached its conclusion.

#136 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3656 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Why thank you for the compliment! And a great insight on the Orion vs Hulk battle. There are indeed many ways for Orion to win this given the advantages he possesses.

You're quite welcome, mon ami. I discovered Comicvine about a year and a half ago searching Google for something else entirely. I'd pop in periodically to read the Battle Forums and (long story short), you, Floopay, Cadence-V2, Young-Gunna and Ancient-of-Days convinced me to "pull the trigger" so to speak, and create an account a few days ago. I figured it would be a golden opportunity to bounce some info off you guys and learn someting new at the same time:) I've still got those pesky daily post limits to deal with though (bah humbug)!

#137 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

winner is by death ko or incapacitation as stated by the OP. Boom tube to a black hole. Hulk would be incapacitated there. All Orion has to do is Astro Force him into the boom tube

#138 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: Well I'm honoured I was part of the reason you joined this site to chime in on here. Your views are well explained and a pleasant thing to read on the battle forums

It was actually from when Darkseid convinced Clark that Clark was DS's son, and that in killing Orion he was "saving" his father from an assassin.

Three pages later Superman was still groggy and trying to compose himself, and that's when Orion used motherbox to bring him back to his senses.

Ah yes that one. It wasn't a KO and it was against a weaker version of Superman given that Bryne limited his powers but I can see where you're coming from.

#139 Edited by Pierpat (3356 posts) - - Show Bio

No boom tube i said, please don't make me edit the op, it's evident i did not wanted boom tube trick if i did not put bfr as an option

#140 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1 said:
@czarny_samael666 said:

@blacharrt1:

Short, because You're still missing the point:

None of mentioned Hulk's enemies used their reflex agaisnt Hulk, so they are irrlevant to this fight.

i see you are still going with the unproven assumptions i see. to each his own.

I am not, You have to prove that they use their reflex speed, not me that they didn't. In similar way that if I would say that I can run 100 km/h, I would have to prove it, not You that I can't.

How can you prove something to someone who is clearly bias, the simple answer is you can't. You know of the hulk's instances and have written them off (all of them) as CIS, or PIS, because you don't like them. So exactly what is there to prove??? Nothing. I've explained the scans i decided to show, you tried to discredit them to no avail. You state that Gladiator wasn't using speed but blitz Hulk into outter most atmophere of earth, and was fighting him seriously to the point he tried to kill him with Heat version, after they both fell back to Earth, which Hulk got up first. You stated that Hyperion wasn't creditable because he couldn't Hurt Hyperion which has nothing to do with the fact that the two were trying blows (which by the way Hulk wasn't hurt by either), and even rushed eachother at such a high speed it caused a shockwave. Which i then constract, with Hyperion vs. Gladiator that had the same exact instance occur, because both Hyperion and Gladiator was moving at high speeds to show that speed was infacted used. Also you know the wind streaks in the panel with Hulk and Hyperion proved it as well. Then i bring up a reaction feat which you take out of context, and not only quicksilver which you dismiss because you don't like the showing or his speed, and makkari whom you dismiss because you don't know the instance or much about the character it seems. Also you dismissed sentry who actively tied to blitz the hulk with speed and was punched in the face. So please just stop, because you haven't proven anything at all, just made speculations. To which you are completely entitled to your opinion, just don't try to push them on me.

@blacharrt1: Vector's single superpower is TK (the ability to mentally manipulate gravitons). He's not regarded as the most powerful Tk user in his universe. He still proved that it is possible with enough force/firepower that you can gravely injure or possibly disentigrate the Hulk (albeit temporarily in his case). Orion's Astro-Force is a universal power source that is remarkably powerful and versitile. Orion can and/or has used the Astro-Force to do at least the following: 1.)Draw upon the Astro-Force to continually increase his physical power (much like Zeus did during his bout with the Hulk, Galactus' heralds also posses this talent),2.) Matter manipulation ( as shown in the scan posted by Ancient-of-Days),3.) Control over the EM spectrum which would include G-rays (even while outside forces sought to dampen his power, he still lifted and transported a megaton Hell-Bore),4.) Create powerful force fields around himself and others (as well as inside them),5.) Move and react at supersonic speeds on foot (scores faster on Aerodisks or with the Harness), 6.) Shoot blasts of cosmic energy at a Star Conquerer probe the size of the Hudson Bay, only to be begged to stop by the rest of the JLA because the intensity of his attack threatened to destroy all life on Earth and then the planet itself, 7.) Manipulate gravitons (Orion has created tractor beams strong enough to hold Starcruisers in place. The polarity of a tractor beam is easily reversed and can generate tremendous concussive force without any heat signature), etc,etc.. Add in his martial arts skills to his Kryptonian one-shottable strength ( thank you spiderbuck :), not to mention any and everything Mother Box is capable of, and this is a runaway victory for Orion. As far as Red Orion bfr'ing himself, I thought about that and the OP did'nt DQ BFR. But i'll meet you halfway: Space/time manipulation is a two way street: Orion does'nt have to travel back in time 80 years. A bloodlusted Orion could pluck all 4 of Banner's grandparents from the time stream directly to the battle site and kill them right in front of their future grandson. As the Hulk (and Banner along with him) vanishes into thin air,this fight will have reached its conclusion.

1. Your assertion about tk being able to repeal reality and matter isn't something all or most telekinetics can just do. Hellion and omega level telekinetic didn't just start manipulating thing on a molecular level, nor did jean grey or rachel summer or psylocke, they were trained and taught to do this at the x-mansion jean and rachel by Charles X. Hellion by Emma. It takes an extremely powerful telekinetic to be able to breakdown molecules much less reality itself, and depending on the telepath the ordeal can be very exhausting. Phoenix host level Jean could, Shaman at the height of his power could. Psionics is an essential energy force, it's equated to life energy of the Marvel universe and one of the most powerful. The Phoenix and the Gobin Force, and even the Power Cosmic are all forms of psionic energy. So to state simply because the Astro force is an essential element somehow makes it better. Sorry no, I'd equate it to the Enigma force, it can enhance abilities, and give people flight, and the ability shoot energy... yeah sounds more like the enigma force to me.

2. Your 2 - 7, aren't really something that would be a major factor at all. But i will address them in a bit. Orion in the scans posted able Superman being one-shotted while sundipped, he didn't one shot him at all. Superman was fighting the entire JLA from what it seemed and Orion kept getting knocked back, even Barda got some hits in on Superman. pt.2. Hulk's body depending on his Anger can, has, reject matter manipulation, from being Turned to stone from Grey Gargoyle, Kitty Pride, trying to fuse his hand and feet to the Ground, it simply didn't work, and the High Evolutionary trying to devolve the Hulk but his body rejecting it. And even in the case of Vector, Hulk's body has even rejected a poison that uses the Hulk's own gamma energy against him and he overpowered it with anger. Vision has tried on several occassion to affect Hulk's body on a molecular level and has failed both time, and got feedback from the process pt.3. Irrevelent, Hulk has been hit with every energy force you could think of, even magical, to by my knowledge none of them has instantly KO'ed him, it would take a large output to do so; You mentioned Zeus, Zeus didn't amp himself, he's a skyfather, he doesn't need to. When Zeus fought the Avenger the entire Avenger roster including Thor, Pulsar, She Hulk couldn't even phase him. And Hulk has fought gods and cosmic beings a like, which means high end magic and cosmic powers. I have mentioned several cosmic being that Hulk has tangoed with Phoenix force host, Quicksilver possessed by an elder God Chthon, Zom Strange, The Stranger, just to name a few.. cosmic power alone isn't enough to pull a win, so you need to prove that Orion has what it takes to do it .pt.4/5/6/7. Hulk has a track record for breaking unbreakable things most notably forcefields. From Dr. Doom, to Classic Dr. Strange, Hulk would break it. Hulk's speed increases a long with his Anger does (just because the ground can't support his mass moving at a fast rate, doesn't make him slow), he will be as fast as he needs to be, also Hulk's body adapts to survive a given situation, instantly. Tractor beam is pointless, Hulk has resisted the pull of a temporal vortex with his barehands.

I'm going to duck out of this thread, but it was an interesting discussion

#141 Posted by Amazonia_Kryptonia (23 posts) - - Show Bio

With all that Orion, or for that matter any hero can do, you have to wonder why they do not. Oh right, comic dictate that characters have personalities. Ibalso wonder why here, certain characters are treated like Gods, and their low feats dismissed, while others have Averages. Seems that a few posters rule the mass opinion. Hulk would win in a comic. Orion is like Thor and would use a few tricks and try to prove himself by slugging it out. And he would lose. In a forum fight, Orion wins 6/10. And he works hard for it. Speed blitzing is not used by characters all that much. Most powerful heroes prefer a good knock down, drag out fight.

#142 Posted by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion shoots first and asks later. That's when he's not bloodlusted.

#143 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

If PIS or BFR is not an option then Hulk would beat Orion like a drum. Tell me why Hulk can't literally grab Orion's left art then grab his right arm then pull with his unlimited strength?

That would be because the Hulk's strength isn't unlimited. And also becasue Orion has a moderate to huge overall power advantage. He has the strength advantage at least until the Hulk gets extremely upset. He has the H2H edge by more than a small margin. If Orion doesn't use Astro Force then this is more balanced. With that, this is is lop sided in his favor.

#144 Posted by THORSON (2511 posts) - - Show Bio

THE BIG O

#145 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys

You Guys

Guys:

Here is a list of Hulk feats (http://marvel.wikia.com/Robert_Bruce_Banner_(Earth-616))

-Among his most amazing feats are supporting a falling 150 billion ton mountain using leverage[177]

-ripping through a bunker designed to withstand the explosion of many thousands of megatons in magnitude[178]

-eventually overpowering the Invisible Woman, the Thing and the Human Torch[179], matching the Scarlet Witch (prior to House of M) and Wonder Man, Iron Man and Vision, while the narration establishes that the Hulk's power is greater than their combined might[180]

-matching theSuper Adaptoid who had acquired strength and durability of a hundred heroes like Iron Man and the Vision[181](if the statement of the cover is not directly contradicted by the story, then it is correct)

-closing the doors to a nuclear core that Thor and the Thing together could not budge[135]

-reflecting Gladiator's ocular beams back into his eyes, and knocking him unconscious[182](before entering in the factory)

-knocking the Silver Surfer out with three blows[183](both were very weakened by the passage through the black hole)

-matching two Avengers teams during a prolonged period of time in spite of becoming gradually weaker due to a physical separation from Banner[184]

-almost breaking the East Coast and also threatening to break the entire planet by the emission of energy from his body[147]

--destroying the Crypto Man after he was boosted with physical strength superior to that of Thor [185]

--overpowering Thor[186]

--pushing two spheres of matter and antimatter apart[187]

--holding together the tectonic plates of a planet[188]

--overpowering a field of energy endowed with sufficient power to change the orbit of a planet[47]

--destroying a planet in Dark Dimension after clashing with Red She-Hulk[176]

--destroying an asteroid twice the size of the planet Earth with a single punch [189] (due mainly to his superior physical toughness and to an impulse produced by the contraction of his legs. Based on the elastic potential energy, the impulse's kinetic energy was provided by the contraction)

--overcoming a power-draining mechanism which contained much of the combined power of himself, Doctor Strange, the Silver Surfer and Namor [190],

--applying force to the space-time structure itself to prevent all theDefenders from being absorbed into a fissure [120](with the size of the singularity estimated in about seven feets according to the Schwarzschild radius, then it's mass and gravitational attraction, by the equivalence principle, is thus equivalent to approximately two hundred Earths),

--smashing adamantium[167][191],

--breaking up the own space-time continuum [87],

--ripping off a powerful device designed to fight against the Celestials[192](levelling down, if it could withstand power proportional to the Kubik's, many orders of magnitude inferior to the Celestials, that's already significant),

--overcoming Onslaught's enormous strength[131](which achieved at least Celestial level in raw power[193]. He could alter reality and use telekinesis on Celestial level to amplify his great strength. Firstly, the ability to warp reality is essentially the materialization of any potential. Potential is, by definition, what can become reality, and the capacity to modify reality basically concretes this function. Franklin was the primary responsible for the resurrection of Galactus, created a replica of Galactus, etc. Secondly, the alternate versions varies in intrinsic power. For example, the 616 Mad Jim Jaspers is more powerful than the Earth-238 Jaspers. Additionally,the Psi-Lord ranks below the 616 "kid" Franklin Richards in the energy manipulation official ratings. Third, Onslaught was neutralized because of Franklin's intervention, sometime after Onslaught's last evolution, in order to save the heroes. Franklin's interference implies he broke free from Onslaught's control, weakening him. Nate is potentially an entity, but he lacked the property to bend reality and has only planetary feats. Finally, as Onslaught could not evolve by himself, since utilized the Hulk for that finality, then it means the Hulk surpassed his strength potential).

--However, Hulk's greatest feat was to propagate concussive force through an infinite number of dimensions by the impact of the collision withIronclad[194] (entire dimensions, and not multiversal planets. First, the writer describes dimensions and where there are planets there are also dimensions, as every planet is directly vinculated to dimensions. Therefore to send concussive force to planets propitiates to transmit concussive energy to dimensions and their multitudes of astronomical entities. Secondly, there are countless dimensions without planets: Universes in the beginning of formation, universes where equal quantities of matter and antimatter were produced and generated only radiation, etc. Besides, there are literally infinite inter-branched alternate universes in the entire Omniverse. Therefore the postulate that suggests that only planets received the entire energy is probabilistically equal to zero. The force would encompass a strictly infinite number of dimensions with the volume of our observable universe, intensifying in the close proximity of the impact. Finally, the few planets shown were just examples of what occurred inside the dimensions. Anyway, the diffusion of raw energy to infinite planets would equate the dissemination of force through the volume of infinite observable universes. The same argument is applied for the premise that they were sub-sections of the main universe, just replacing the word "planet" for "sub-dimension" and the word "dimension" for "universe". It is important to notice that the U-Foes's powers were vastly augmented while on Earth, so that Vector repelled the reality itself and thus transported them to Crossroads[195]. Undoubtedly not all physical laws were operationally identical, but the propagation of energy was shared by all dimensions and the Crossroads)

--Thor even stated once that the Hulk could possibly be stronger than himself[196].

Yeah..most of those descriptions of those feats were written by fans. NOTHING in the books indicated the bunker he damaged could withstand "thousands" of megatons. LOL..

I'm pretty sure that was secondary adamantium that the Hulk destroyed. And it's well established that this is far weaker than the adamantium lacing Wolverine's bones. Hence, he has never been able to break his bones in 616 universe.

#146 Posted by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: Did you seriously say use Cap/BP as examples of why Hulk's strength triumphs over superior H2H?

Thor/Herc are the only ones even in the ballpark as far as strength goes. And Thor has gotten the upper hand on Hulk (albeit with Mjolnir) in more than one instance.

Show me Hulk withstanding a blast that was shown to destroy planets.

#147 Posted by Time_To_Play (11 posts) - - Show Bio
#148 Posted by MonsterStomp (19852 posts) - - Show Bio

If Orion drags this fight out, it will get harder for him, but morals off Orion owns him straight off the bat.

#149 Edited by dum529001 (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

Hulk withstanding planet-splitting energy blasts (incredible Hulk #112)

#150 Edited by DaAwesome2 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2:

Hulk withstanding planet-splitting energy blasts (incredible Hulk #112)

Looks like a flashback or her vision of what happened to the planet. But I could def be wrong. So don't think I'm doubting you. Do you have more scans? I'll try to see if I can locate the issue as well and peep. Is that Galaxy Master Hulk is fighting?