#51 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12052 posts) - - Show Bio

because you know as well as i do hulk wins this

how

#52 Posted by izbighulk (638 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion speed blitzes Hulk, he really does, he has a mother box that heals him nearly as fast as Hulk and can teleport him around just for that advantage if he wanted. If Orion was lazy he could just BFR Hulk through a boom tube, since he's not, he's gonna obliterate Hulk with his Astro Force or straight up blitz him

Hulk can destroy astro harness and the wristbands so he couldn't control the astro force

#53 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12052 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

Orion speed blitzes Hulk, he really does, he has a mother box that heals him nearly as fast as Hulk and can teleport him around just for that advantage if he wanted. If Orion was lazy he could just BFR Hulk through a boom tube, since he's not, he's gonna obliterate Hulk with his Astro Force or straight up blitz him

Hulk can destroy astro harness and the wristbands so he couldn't control the astro force

Orion can reform them with a thought

So......

#54 Posted by whacknasty (5608 posts) - - Show Bio
#55 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12052 posts) - - Show Bio
#56 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio
#57 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

here are the two reasons why hulk gets beaten.First, it is orion. Second,he is off morals...but seriously even if morals were on hulk cant beat this

#58 Edited by iamthewolf88 (346 posts) - - Show Bio

Just having access to a Mother Box alone seems very one sided. Hulk gets smashed.

Morals Off Orion, is basically just saying, normal Orion.

#59 Posted by Saren (25621 posts) - - Show Bio

Mother Box opens a Boom Tube and punts Hulk somewhere.

OP's are for little people.

Moderator
#60 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion speed blitzes Hulk, he really does, he has a mother box that heals him nearly as fast as Hulk and can teleport him around just for that advantage if he wanted. If Orion was lazy he could just BFR Hulk through a boom tube, since he's not, he's gonna obliterate Hulk with his Astro Force or straight up blitz him

Orion has super-speed?

No just that if he can endure their blast he can endure whatever Orion throws at him

False logic. Until You can prove that Galactus really wanted to kill him and that he failed and then strike harder, but also couldn't do it, it is irrelevant.

#61 Edited by Lvenger (19405 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion very handily takes this. His Astro Harness, Astro Force and Mother Box compliments his near Superman level physical stats very handily. Hulk's going down.

#62 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12052 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

Orion speed blitzes Hulk, he really does, he has a mother box that heals him nearly as fast as Hulk and can teleport him around just for that advantage if he wanted. If Orion was lazy he could just BFR Hulk through a boom tube, since he's not, he's gonna obliterate Hulk with his Astro Force or straight up blitz him

Orion has super-speed?

Yep

Orion is quite fast on Aero disks and on his Astro Harness

He shows exceptional speed against his father as well

So, yeah he's got some super speed

#63 Posted by spiderbuck (2452 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Well he's fast enough to tag Superman repeatedly, but he's far from a top level speedster. I have a book where he needed help from Lightray to catch up to a rocket. So I'm really not sure if that's just inconsistency or bad writing.

#64 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3392 posts) - - Show Bio

Inconsistency. See, 3 things trouble me about this match up :

1.) Vector ( who, while very powerful, is consistantly, along with the rest of the U_Foes) is treated like a chump by Marvel Comics. Despite this, during the 90's Heroes For Hire run, Vector proved more than capable of flaying tremendous amounts of flesh from the Hulk's body leaving little more than a skeleton held together by superhuman connective tissue. While the Hulk did heal from this assault, no one who wants to be taken seriously thinks that Vector's power output is greater than what Orion is capable of.

2.)The Hulk is the comic book equivalent of shampoo instructions (you know, "Lather, Rinse, Repeat.") except his method is, " Ball up fists, Swing them at something/someone until it/they break, Repeat." He tosses in random thunderclaps for variety/ extra credit. Orion on the other hand is a God of war, well versed in all aspects of warfare (including psychological). Sure he has more than enough strength to fist fight the Hulk, but this is like "Hulk vs Cosmic Anderson Silva". Orion definitely posseses the martial skill to dispatch the Hulk with surgical strikes in the same way a talented h2h combatant 7/10's some random brawling dumbass who decided to bite off more than he could chew.

3.) What's stopping Mother Box from doing a pre or mid fight analysis on the Hulk, discovering gamma radiation is his power source, and (since energy can"t be destroyed, only changed into another form) converting those g- rays into infra- red or sound? This action would inevitably transform the Hulk back to Bruce Banner. Now who is prepared to risk their credibility and say that Banner lasts longer than a millisecond against abloodlusted Orion?

#65 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12052 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion speedblitzes, Astro harness and mother box not even needed.

#66 Posted by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

#67 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet said:

Inconsistency. See, 3 things trouble me about this match up : 1.) Vector ( who, while very powerful, is consistantly, along with the rest of the U_Foes) is treated like a chump by Marvel Comics. Despite this, during the 90's Heroes For Hire run, Vector proved more than capable of flaying tremendous amounts of flesh from the Hulk's body leaving little more than a skeleton held together by superhuman connective tissue. While the Hulk did heal from this assault, no one who wants to be taken seriously thinks that Vector's power output is greater than what Orion is capable of. 2.) The Hulk is the comic book equivalent of shampoo instructions (you know, "Lather, Rinse, Repeat.") except his method is, " Ball up fists, Swing them at something/someone until it/they break, Repeat." He tosses in random thunderclaps for variety/ extra credit. Orion on the other hand is a God of war, well versed in all aspects of warfare (including psychological). Sure he has more than enough strength to fist fight the Hulk, but this is like "Hulk vs Cosmic Anderson Silva". Orion definitely posseses the martial skill to dispatch the Hulk with surgical strikes in the same way a talented h2h combatant 7/10's some random brawling dumbass who decided to bite off more than he could chew. 3.) What's stopping Mother Box from doing a pre or mid fight analysis on the Hulk, discovering gamma radiation is his power source, and (since energy can"t be destroyed, only changed into another form) converting those g- rays into infra- red or sound? This action would inevitably transform the Hulk back to Bruce Banner. Now who is prepared to risk their credibility and say that Banner lasts longer than a millisecond against abloodlusted Orion?

This isn't exactly true, Hulk by design is a brute, so although his actions as you said, may be repetitious, so are many other characters with expanded powersets, for example green lantern, thor, ironman, magneto, superman.. etc. So to simplify Hulk in such a way does a great discredit to a great many characters. As far as h2h goes, Hulk's showing have proved them very pointless, Thor, Ironfist, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain American, Ares, Hercules Thundra and many more are all well/top tier trained fighters (some of which have been training for centuries) and none of them can best the Hulk in a Melee Fight because one of Hulk many abilities is the ability to Adapt in a given situation, unlike Doomdays whom has to be killed in order to adapt. It's one of Hulk most underrated abilities the ability to adapt to survive and this has been Stated several times on panel. So h2h training with the Hulk is useless. So it's not a factor. Vector actually attacked the Hulk more than once, in one of the first Vector's powers completely repelled reality itself and Hulk resisted it completely in the second He repelled the skin off the Hulk, but Hulk's Healing factor is constant even on a molecular level and as his anger and frustration grew so did his resistance to the attack which is why it didn't do further damage to him. So for you to state that the instances are somehow showing and inconsistency doesn't really make sense his power set didn't change, only his method of attack. So third point is counter by the last few showings of Hulk, It is pretty impossible to drain him now, disregarding Loeb force, but even that stopped working. It is highly unlikely that it will work on current Hulk, who is quite powerful and also uses Bannertech. Which would gives him additional shielding and teleportation.

@nightflash said:

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

ABC logic doesn't work, so comparing him to Superman doesn't mean anything here. As i pointed out above skilled fighters lose against the Hulk, they wouldn't even attempt to even fight him in close combat because it would be pointless. And Hulk has always had superspeed however in current indestructible Hulk that's more apparent. It just so happens that the ground can't support the hulk running at full speed which is why he leaps, and he has leap from city to city and from one continent to another. So it's very foolish to say he doesn't have this, and his anger amps him to move even faster in combat. Hulk has taken blast and hits that would Destroy entire planets, and even force them out of orbit, and he has continuously done so. Superman doesn't even have the output in force to put Hulk down because unaided he has never done anything planetwide. Strength wise Hulk has destroyed something twice the size of earth, kept anti-matter and matter apart, and has destroyed the unbreakable bonds of Classic Dr. Strange, the Ball of Cyttorak, and the Shielding of Dr. Doom, and broken Adamantium. There is no feat you could show that would put Orion over Hulk in Strength or Durability. You should really stop using ABC logic. Banner is one of the smartest people in the marvel universe, and has proven as such, so for you to state that simply Orion is smarter, is just ludicrous. He has proven that he is just as smart as Stark, and Reed in his field which is gamma tech, and other. Again if you read indestructible Hulk, and previous Hulk series. it's showcase Banner as a genius. Which again Bannertech is most certainly a factor. Although the Motherbox and Orion other gear is pretty amazing, Bannertech has shown it's durability/versatility during the Chaowars, and after WWH, against both Juggernaut and Thor, and even an amp Loki's son when he became an uber god. So it has stood up against some high end magic in taken shots from mjolnir as well. Your argument is completely one-sided and not based in facts about Hulk at all. You should reassess it.

#68 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

orion wins.

#69 Posted by 80sBaby (1343 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

#70 Posted by age_of_ultron_Prime2000 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion lol

#71 Edited by spiderbuck (2452 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

@nightflash said:

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

True, regarding Orion and speed.

@ancient_0f_days: I don't recall ever seeing him speed blitz. Refer back to my comment regarding Lightray and the missile.

@blacharrt1: You make some very good arguments for Hulk. I just can't get over how badly he recently got worked by Doom. Also Hulk with teleportation and Banner tech has the potential to be a beast on these boards, but he needs feats. Still in this case, I feel like an Astro Force blast would be enough to put Hulk out, along with > Superman strength and H2H skills.

#72 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion god stomps (pun intended).

@god_spawn: Shouldn't this thread be locked? It's pretty much a stomp in Orion's favor and more so since he has the astro harness and the mother box that goes along with it.

#73 Posted by izbighulk (638 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

Realy seriously he is not physically stronger than Hulk. Hulk would probably get angrier and stronger while fighting Orion who would probably underestimate him thus enabling Hulk enough time to get stronger.

And in terms of combat skill Hulk has more than enough combat skill to be on pair whit Orion, spending most of his life fighting i would even call him an expert after all the gladiator fights on planet Sakaar

When you're talking intelligence i presume you're talking about fighting skill because when it comes to that Hulk is no dumbass

And in durability i doubt his stronger more like equal after all Hulk has survived lots of devastating attacks in his life

#74 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: Dr. Doom has never been someone to take lightly, ever! He has punked cosmic beings and stolen their powers. The fact that he is a mix of science and the mystics arts makes him incredibly dangerous, this is the same guy who punked Galactus, Magneto, Silver Surfer, and Black Panther. Hulk has fought him several times, and has gotten the upper hand but the same could be said for Doom. On the same level Hulk has contended with cosmic beings who are just out of Orion's league altogether, Fighting Nightmare in his own realm and completely destroying the place, Taking the Phoenix Force on with no apparent damage to himself, Taking on Quicksilver possess by the elder god Chthon, Hel in her Realm, Onslaught, whom he overpowered. Orion simply doesn't have the feats to compare with Hulk durability or Strength. What you haven't address is the point i made about h2h being useless against the Hulk, and although you mention Superman's Strength, Superman simply doesn't have the Strength feats that shows he could KO the hulk when he has problems with Grundy and Doomsday, which also have no feats of Strength or Durability that compare to the Hulk. Also Darksied has no noticeable speed feats to even mention, what this shows is that Combat speed wise there is nothing even using ABC logic that would put Orion over the Hulk in terms of fighting (not that i'm stating that you mentioned this).

What is really lacking in the case of Orion, is an actual case for him winning at all. And Although it isn't shown that Hulk uses the bannertech, more than Orion's showing. It has been shown after WWH saga when they fought Hiro Kala, they used the teleportation aspect of the technology, and shielding before the World War Hulks saga when Banner was training Skaar to kill the Hulk. It was also used in the quest to find Hercules by Amadeus Cho. So to state that there is a lack of showings... is kind of incorrect, but could it be shown more? yeah. I think in comparison with Orion who heavily relies on his tech as opposed to Hulk there is definitely a usage differences, but this doesn't discount that the ability of Bannertech are there, and that it is definitely a factor for example if Orion used a Boom tubes to try and BFR, Bannertech can counter that because it can teleport, which would make BFR impossible in that case. Also it's is powered by Hulk/Banner from their Gamma output.

The New gods are the DC equivalent to Marvel's Externals, and Hulk has fought the Eternals with ease. He has Punched Makkari knocking him completely out when he tried to blitz him. So i think there is a real lack of sustains in feats on Orions part. But I think that Orion could definitely win, however he can't win a slugfest with Hulk, and He won't be able to drain him.

#75 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sbaby said:

@nightflash said:

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

Not that Orion fights like a speedster, but none of these people used reflex speed against Hulk.

Sentry was completly crazy atm, Gladiator only wanted to BFR Hulk, but Hulk suprised him and punched him so hard (it was Mindless/Bannerless Hulk) that Gladiator was barely consciousness later. And still Hulk couldn't put him down on his own - he needed to use Glad's weakness to win the fight.

And Quicksilver lost because of popular CIS among speedsters - "I'm running fast and I'm closing my eyes, so my enemy would just put his arm in my way to KO me".

Similar tactic was used against flying Jack of Hearts. Hulk simply predicted where Jack will be when he flying through the country.

Spider-Man and Wolverine always made Hulk trouble exaclty because of speed. Rulk also didn't know what happened when Iron Man started second battle with him. Not to mention that both: Gladiator and Sentry actually took Hulk from the place he was standing.

#76 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael666 said:

@80sbaby said:

@nightflash said:

Orion wins no contest. Orion is on par with Superman in terms of strength and way outclasses Hulk (stop with the darn limitless strength, he doesn't have it). Orion is also a much more skilled fighter while Hulk just smashes. Hulk is slower than Orion; I've never seen Hulk run at super speeds only jump very high and far while Orion has shown to move fast enough to keep up with Superman and Darkseid. Durability wise, Orion is on top once again as he has a history of going toe to toe with stronger opponents than Hulk. Orion has access to very advanced technology such as the astro force making this fight even less fair since Hulk would be naked if it wasn't for his torn pants. Orion is of course smarter than the Hulk.

Strength: Orion

Combat skill: Orion

Speed: Orion

Durabilty: Orion

Equipment: Orion

Intelligence: Orion

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

Not that Orion fights like a speedster, but none of these people used reflex speed against Hulk.

Sentry was completly crazy atm, Gladiator only wanted to BFR Hulk, but Hulk suprised him and punched him so hard (it was Mindless/Bannerless Hulk) that Gladiator was barely consciousness later. And still Hulk couldn't put him down on his own - he needed to use Glad's weakness to win the fight.

And Quicksilver lost because of popular CIS among speedsters - "I'm running fast and I'm closing my eyes, so my enemy would just put his arm in my way to KO me".

Similar tactic was used against flying Jack of Hearts. Hulk simply predicted where Jack will be when he flying through the country.

Spider-Man and Wolverine always made Hulk trouble exaclty because of speed. Rulk also didn't know what happened when Iron Man started second battle with him. Not to mention that both: Gladiator and Sentry actually took Hulk from the place he was standing.

This is not a real argument against the consistency of him being able to react against these people. You are also forgetting Hyperion whom Hulk actually fought, him out maneuvering Namor and Silver Surfer, or Makkari. The fact that he has constantly shown the ability to adapt to his opponents speeds is well documented in the characters history enough to completely disregard any claim to CIS, PIS, or WIS. It's simply too consistent.

#77 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Well he's fast enough to tag Superman repeatedly, but he's far from a top level speedster. I have a book where he needed help from Lightray to catch up to a rocket. So I'm really not sure if that's just inconsistency or bad writing.

I don't recall Superman using his speed in that fight, but I only recall one of them.

He seem to have pretty good reflex and ability to fly fast. But I doubt that he is actually moving faster then, let say... Spider-Man.

With skill and enhanced reflex he has shown, he should be able to land many punches on Hulk. I doubt in his strength. IDK his other powers or eq enough to say that he wins/lose for sure.

But personally, I would like to see more of scans with him, since during all that time I haven't seen Orion winning with anyone comparable to Hulk. Comparable in two means:

1.In terms of power level, since his win with Darkseid was denied by many people, since it seems tat DS let him win.

2.In terms of types of enemy. Hulk is pretty hard to put down. Yeah, people like Thor or Doom were able to do so, but Doom is full of suprises, since his armor was able to hold his own (stalemate? win? IDK right now) against Iron Man and Thor has feats on level seem to be much above Orion's reach.

By guess: Orion probably has enough power to put Hulk down with his energy projection.

By scans I've seen: Hulk would win sooner or later.

#78 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

1.Which time? New Hyperion didn't use his speed for sure. Hyperion from Squadron Sinister was using only his strength against Hulk, since they were questioning each other's strength. Fight was unsettled, since Nebulon appeared. Then they had two brawls in Giant-size Defenders #4, where first time Hulk punched Hyperion, but was drained by Spectrum and second time Hulk used thunderclap against him, since he couldn't affect him in other way.

2.Makkari and Surfer are FTL/lightspeeders. Hulk can't match their speed no matter what. Makkari is like Quicksilver or Flash - they always lose to slower people because of CIS. They shouldn't be touched by most of their enemies, but they are running blindly and losing in some stupid way. It is in their character, but it doesn't mean that their opponent can really take a character that uses his speed with fighting skills.

3.Namor isn't a speedster. I have never seen him using anything beside flying speed. Not too mention that Namor won both of their encounters in water.

#79 Edited by Terrigen (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to say Orion. He is more skilled, has tech supporting him, and his strength is pretty comparable to Hulks, if not even at the start of the fight.

To those saying that Orion would underestimate Hulk or that Orion would let Hulk build up anger, his Motherbox would scan Hulk pretty quickly, and Orion bloodlusted would probably tear him in half/knock him out by that time anyways.

To me the fight is similar to Superman vs Hulk threads, as Orion has similar stats to Superman (strength, ranged output, durability), only falling behind him in speed IMO.

I just can't see Hulk winning this outside of PIS.

#80 Edited by izbighulk (638 posts) - - Show Bio

I am sure he can land a hit on Orion no matter how fast or skilled he is

#81 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@izbighulk:

Saying that "no matter how fast od skilled he is", means that You're not here to debate.

#82 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12052 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: I don't recall ever seeing him speed blitz. Refer back to my comment regarding Lightray and the missile.

Then you CLEARLY passed right over all those speed feats and speed blitzes I just posted .... that one off missile feat with lightray means nothing in comparison with all his other speed feats, and even less in comparison to the speed of his Astro Harness and Aero Disks.

@80sbaby said:

So, basically you think Orion wins because you don't know much about Hulk. Perhaps you should check out AcidSkull's respect thread?

Anyways, Hulk wins this 7/10. Orion's speed isn't greater than Quicksilver, Sentry or Gladiator so it won't be a difference maker. Hulk's also more durable and has way better strength feats.

Orion wins because he is so much faster than Hulk that he won't be tagged, and by your logic, Wolverine and Spider-Man are faster than Quicksilver, Sentry and Gladiator cus they dodge Hulk consistently whereas Pietro, Bob and Kallark tend not to (jobbing), we both know Peter and Logan aren't faster than any of them but you are saying that Orion's speed doesn't matter since Hulk has tagged opponents with some level of super speed (when Sentry was clearly jobbing and allowing himself to be hit, and Gladiator is a brawler and barely uses his speed in combat). That's bullsh*t, and you probably know it, but in any case, Orion has reaction and combat feats that put him above Spider Man and Wolverine (lol) as well as travel speed feats on his Aero Disks and Astro Harness that put him above Quicksilver so Hulk isn't touching Orion whether you choose to accept it or not. Unlike Hulk, Orion isn't just a rage driven brawler and can choose to shoot him and devastate that part of the region in the process, BFR him with a casual Boom Tube, put Hulk in a magna lock to immobilize him or stomp him in combat utilizing his superior skill and speed. Orion already has a healing factor and that is amplified by his Mother Box, he can also generate Astro Force fields to shield him, not only that, but Orion has survived Mageddon point blank, a weapon of the Old Gods which ultimately ended their world. Even WBH would be hard pressed to put down Orion in a slug fest. Orion has also survived getting ambushed and shot up with Radion (New God Kryptonite) in all the most fatal areas of his body (leaving holes, missing chunks of flesh and cracks around his body) and after decimating a battalion of Darkseid's elite troopers and falling into one of the fire pits on Apokolips (which are stated to be as hot as a star) made a full recovery in a few pages by his own healing factor only using a mother box to restructure his face (his face turns ugly and fearsome when he gets pissed off and needs a mother box to calm him and turn his face back to normal. He's had half a city dropped on him by Lightray, he shook it off and decided to fight seriously. I understand Hulk may have "better" durability feats, but considering the fact that Orion doesn't even have to take hits from Hulk if he didn't want to and definitely could if he had to, it doesn't matter. He's overpowered Superman on two occasions (the first he laid Superman out with one blast of his astro force, the second he stalemated Superman but clearly had the upper hand), he even fought a sun dipped angry Superman to a standstill from India, to China, to Antarctica, then knocked him out to a desert. They fought around the world, and Orion was able to KO a sun dipped crazy Superman. Hulk will not win this at all......BFR, Incapacitation, Astro Force, or just a straight up fight, Orion dominates this with ease.

#84 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Not new Hyperion but i had completely forgot they were fighting, but thanks for reminding me. Both Hyperions in fact. It has been established that Hyperion even in combat has nanosecond combat speeds, as does Gladiator. Hulk has been able to slug it out with both of them, however their travel speeds are well beyond anything Hulk has actually done because he isn't able to fly. But the same would go for Sentry as well, the fact that Hulk has fought not one or two or even Three or four encounter with Superman clones but more (Ikaris, Captain Mar-vel as well), and he has been shown to be able to keep up with all of them in combat. So again consistency on the part of Hulk means that it's more likely than not that he will hit people who are stronger them him and infact at the level or above the limit of Superman.

It true that Silver Surfer, can literally travel around the world in less than seconds and have inter-stellar travel speed, but he doesn't have the greatest combat speed when not on his board, although he is quite fast and agile. Makkari was ko'ed by HULk this is just a simple fact in the Eternal/Hulk history, it's happened. afterward Makkari became faster than light he wasn't always so. I'm not implying in anyway that Hulk can move faster than light, And Makkari has no combat feats of him fighting at faster than light speeds just travel, however it could be argued that Surfer does. But Hulk has fought Photon/Pulsar and Star Fox (both of which can move faster than light) along with the rest of the entire Avengers roster to a standstill, He's also fought Alpha Flight with both Aurora and Northstar who are also both known speedsters.. again Hulk's history shows consistency and being able to still fight people who have superspeed, but again this is ignoring the fact that Hulk himself has superspeed as well (i don't know why people choose to forget this).

As far as Namor using superspeed, I've never heard Flight not being counted as superspeed as far as i know it does. Superman best speed feats aren't actually of him running although he can run really fast they are mainly of him using flight speeds. Sentry, Gladiator, Hyperion, Ikaris, SSurfer, even Nova and Quasar are all known for flight speeds. I don't think i ever stated that Namor was a speedster but making references to his speed and agility.

#85 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days:

Your scans proved that he has super speed, but not its level.

And not many scans of Orion were shown on CV.

As I said - his fight with Darkseid was denied by many people and IIRC there was a scan proving that DS wanted to lose that fight.

Which people were defeated by Orion?

@blacharrt1:

You don't get it. It doesn't matter if Hulk fought with them or not. It matters if they used their reflex. They didn't.

Your scans doesn't prove anything relevant. For sure they doesn't prove Hulk's speed.

Makkari and Quicksilver often loses to CIS. Superman-clones lost because of PIS. If any of them would use their reflex, Hulk would never hit them. Until You have scan in which it was saidthat Hyperion used nanosecond reaction speed, he didn't use it. The same about Sentry, new Hyperion and Gladiator.

#86 Edited by spiderbuck (2452 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: My bad, I did reply without seeing your post. He was using his harness in that issue with Lightray, but still, your scans are freaking awesome and I am absolutely convinced Orion can speed blitz. Not to say it would be an easy win, or that Hulk would not land anything ( I agree with @blacharrt1: regarding Hulk being able to deal with speed at his best ), but as per my initial vote nothing has deviated as I have always stated I believe Orion would take the win.

#87 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: if they are fighting seriously which they were, then it's implied, unless it's stated otherwise the two are holding back, which it wasn't. I posted the Hyperion clashing with Hulk and the Gladiator clashing with hulk on panel to distinctly show that in both conflict the result would have been enough to cause massive shockwaves. In the Hulk v Hyperions it's clearly shown the two speeding towards enough. However it was specifically mention in the fight with Gladiator that they were reaction at nanoseconds speeds, where Hulk they were not, but it was simply a fight like any other. The only difference is that there is no air in space hence the sound could not be heard, which is what it states on panel. It's a direct contrast of the two fights involving Hyperion.

So it's actually quite relevant. The Point was to show consistency with the Hulk's character, he has never had a problem reacting to faster people, and you can't prove the contrary, because in comicvine battles you use people at their best, and he has shown to be able to battle at his best with people whom are faster than him speedwise. There are several instances of him coming into direct conflict with new and old Hyperion, and since there hasn't been anything to state that New Hyperion from a different universe is different from the other we can safely used the old Hyperion as a reference. In those altercation not only is Hulk actively fighting him, but he is unhurt. Which prove he can react, and his durability is as such that he can't be easily hurt by physical force (which i think is something we agree on).

Again you are claiming that Makkari is the victim of CIS, which I have to say is completely incorrect, there is no proof to that at all. In fact in that story the instance plays into Makkari's character exactly, he tended to be impulsive speeding first thinking second. Silver Surfer on the other hand in certain situation i would have to agree, however this isn't one of them. And CIS on the surfer's part still doesn't count against the consistency of the Hulk, which is still very apparent, given the list of people he has fought. You keep making these claim but i believe the general agreement in the department of consistency here on comicvine is 3 or more occasions makes it's consistent enough not to be questioned. So you may claim it for other characters however the Hulk has repeatedly surpassed that # on this particular topic which is combat speed and reaction in fighting people with superspeed and high reactions in combat.

#88 Posted by izbighulk (638 posts) - - Show Bio

@izbighulk:

Saying that "no matter how fast od skilled he is", means that You're not here to debate.

That's taken out of contest I was just trying to point out that Orion isn't that fast and he's feats are inconsistent

#89 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

if they are fighting seriously which they were, then it's implied

No, it not. Many people have done the same and they aren't speedsters either.

Absorbing Man isn't a speedster (Sentry). Black Cloak isn't a speedster (Gladiator). Radioactive Man isn't a speedster (Hyperion-616).

Unitl it is shown in right way, fighting with fast people doesn't make You fast.

I posted the Hyperion clashing with Hulk and the Gladiator clashing with hulk on panel to distinctly show that in both conflict the result would have been enough to cause massive shockwaves.

Which is irrelevant, since it doesn't give Hulk any advantage.

However it was specifically mention in the fight with Gladiator that they were reaction at nanoseconds speeds

And that makes this battle so special. Until You can prove that they used the same against Hulk - they didn't.

The Point was to show consistency with the Hulk's character, he has never had a problem reacting to faster people

No, it just proves that Hulk is surrounded by PIS, since his enemies never use their power wisely against him, just come and brawl. Thor can one-shot Hulk with his lightnings (he laready did that), can BFR him with one move, blast with planet level beam or simply remove his gamma energy. But he doesn't, while he did it agaisnt Mangog, Durok, Destroyer,Presence and other similar enemies.

Hyperion didn't even try to use his speed, since they were matching their strength and only strength. He didn't even use his Atomic Vision against Hulk.

Gladiator wanted to BFR strongest version of Hulk, but was attacked during that move. HV was working, but GLadiator was already barely consciousness.

And Sentry's fight isn't even funny. This guy normally has enough energy to destroy planet (he shown planet level of power at least two times, one clearly aginst Photon and once by superiority to Binary against Collective) yet, in fight with WWHulk he couldn't even level a city. And WWHulk still was on his knees even while Sentry wasn't aiming his atack anywhere, he was just spreding out his energy.

Again you are claiming that Makkari is the victim of CIS, which I have to say is completely incorrect, there is no proof to that at all.

I haven't seen that fight and I don't have to. Hulk wouldn't react to light-speeder. Makkari is typical speedster who runs blindely and always lose in the same way.

#90 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion easily. Boom Tube and its over.

#91 Edited by Amazonia_Kryptonia (23 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion wins 6/10. Physically they are peers. And Orion is far faster but Hulk heals better and gets stronger. Over time, Hulk would over whelm Orion if Orion forgets his other powers. Which he does alot.

#92 Posted by God_Spawn (37748 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: I might just lock it for the ridiculous amount of out of context scans and posts in thread, not it being a stomp. But, it's providing some debate so I'll keep it open for now.

Moderator
#93 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

Orion for a majority

#94 Edited by The_Imperator (1926 posts) - - Show Bio

When for Orion is this? Because if it is during Orion, and he has the ALE, he stops :P

#95 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Let's get real. When it comes to Hulk's speed.......

Hulk's speed is clearly shown to be many times faster than the speed of sound. Hulk moves at hyper-sonic speeds using jumps.

2. Hulk has battled people just who have hyper-sonic speed as well.

Yes, I know that people can go at light-speed but its rarely done on earth and even then, it's only because they can fly.

Flyers can go light-speed because they are able to maintain their momentum without pushing off the ground.

When it comes to running, once you reach a certain speed the ground has a harder time supporting you. That's why Hulk usually jumps.

3. To the people who say Hulk's battles with hyper-sonic foes don't count and are PIS(Plot Induced Stupidity):

Every time you throw a punch you're using speed.

The speed, which is the rate of motion/travel, will be in proportionate to the amount of force put out.

Hulk's punches travel at super-speeds, even moreso when the Hulk is really using his strength against a foe on his level.

Hulk didn't just fight people who have superhuman speed. He's actually caught them while they are moving at superhuman speeds. Numerous times.

In addition to this, Hulk has caught super-fast objects many times before so it's definitely consistent with the character.

And Marvel has stated numerous times, no matter where you look, that Hulk has superhuman speed.

4. Super-speed can be displayed in four different ways:

1.Running

2. Jumping

3. Flying

4. Movement of the body's limbs built to push things and absorb impact(arms and legs)

And once again, just because you don't fly or run doesn't mean you have no speed. You don't have to be the stereotypical Superman or Flash-type character to have speed.

Even before Superman could fly, he super-jumped.

5. Don't act like any other can character has never missed the mark or been tagged by characters who are slower than them. It happens to everyone more often then people want to admit. Hulk is not a special case.

With things like this, It does'nt make a character slow. if writers allowed characters to act acccording to their abilities 100 percent of the time there wouldn't be as many long and interesting stories to read.

#96 Edited by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio
#97 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

if they are fighting seriously which they were, then it's implied

No, it not. Many people have done the same and they aren't speedsters either.

Absorbing Man isn't a speedster (Sentry). Black Cloak isn't a speedster (Gladiator). Radioactive Man isn't a speedster (Hyperion-616).

Unitl it is shown in right way, fighting with fast people doesn't make You fast.

I posted the Hyperion clashing with Hulk and the Gladiator clashing with hulk on panel to distinctly show that in both conflict the result would have been enough to cause massive shockwaves.

Which is irrelevant, since it doesn't give Hulk any advantage.

However it was specifically mention in the fight with Gladiator that they were reaction at nanoseconds speeds

And that makes this battle so special. Until You can prove that they used the same against Hulk - they didn't.

The Point was to show consistency with the Hulk's character, he has never had a problem reacting to faster people

No, it just proves that Hulk is surrounded by PIS, since his enemies never use their power wisely against him, just come and brawl. Thor can one-shot Hulk with his lightnings (he laready did that), can BFR him with one move, blast with planet level beam or simply remove his gamma energy. But he doesn't, while he did it agaisnt Mangog, Durok, Destroyer,Presence and other similar enemies.

Hyperion didn't even try to use his speed, since they were matching their strength and only strength. He didn't even use his Atomic Vision against Hulk.

Gladiator wanted to BFR strongest version of Hulk, but was attacked during that move. HV was working, but GLadiator was already barely consciousness.

And Sentry's fight isn't even funny. This guy normally has enough energy to destroy planet (he shown planet level of power at least two times, one clearly aginst Photon and once by superiority to Binary against Collective) yet, in fight with WWHulk he couldn't even level a city. And WWHulk still was on his knees even while Sentry wasn't aiming his atack anywhere, he was just spreding out his energy.

Again you are claiming that Makkari is the victim of CIS, which I have to say is completely incorrect, there is no proof to that at all.

I haven't seen that fight and I don't have to. Hulk wouldn't react to light-speeder. Makkari is typical speedster who runs blindely and always lose in the same way.

As i said before you could make a case for other people, not the Hulk. Which you are apparently doing with the comparison with people that have nothing to do with the instance that the Hulk was in with the listed people, like Hyperion, Gladiator, Ikaris, Quicksilver, etc. You haven't proven anything in those instances. Again you keep trying to debate against consistency which they is simply too much evidence for your theory to be valid.

Just because the relevance is clearly lost on you doesn't make it irrelevant. The fact would be that the Speed and force to cause such a shockwave is both necessary is featured in both fights, it's somehow lost on you that each character involved is not moving at base human speeds.

Again with your PIS nonsense, this is just ignored because again there is too much consistency to be PIS on the part of the Hulk. Again if you want to make the argument for the other parties you could but that doesn't take away from Hulk's showings.

That's right you haven't seen the fight and clearly you have trouble reading the description of the instance. Makkari wasn't a light speedster at the time this was well after the World Fastest race in the Quasar series. So again you're talking nonsense.

#98 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1:

I am showing You, that Your logic is flawed, since I can give You exactly the same examples about people who aren't fast.

None of Hulk's enemies used their speed wisely. And in none of Your scans any of them used it. Not too mention that half of them is completly useless.

Just try to read Your own scans:

Surfer was holding Hulk - no moment with using speed.

Hyperion was attacked from behind - no sign of using super speed.

New Hyperion and Hulk punching each other - no sign of any super reflex

Hulk hurting Hyperion by thunderclap - if Hyperion would use his speed, he would run from it, since sound's speed is lower than his own. He wasn't even trying doing it.

Hyperion and Hulk matching their strength - NO reason to use speed, if they were matching STRENGTH.

No sign of great reflex there.

Again with your PIS nonsense, this is just ignored because again there is too much consistency to be PIS on the part of the Hulk.

So, now one of Hulk's power is making his enemies to forgot their powers! LOL!!

@dum529001:

You're using our pshysic for them, while speed and mass isn't base of comic's characters strength.

Besides, You've jumped into debate that is clearley about Hulk's reflex, not Orion's one. I am not supporting either of characters here.

#99 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

You can't talk about speed and say that you're ignoring physics.

Speed is part of the three laws of motion.

It's just basic physics. It not Big Bang theory. Its just common sense.

#100 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

You can't talk about speed and say that you're ignoring physics.

Speed is part of the three laws of motion.

It's just basic physics. It not Big Bang theory. Its just common sense.

But Hulk's strength doesn't come from mass of his muscles or speed at which he is trowing his punches. That is why existance of guys like that is pretty much impossible.