Battle starts inside the uninhabited JLA watchtower but can move in any direction.
-Pre Flashpoint versions of all characters -Billy Batson is Captain Marvel -Standard morals -Standard equipment -No BFR -Win by KO, TKO, incapacitation, surrender or Death if necessary
Good fight Team 2 has an intimidating speed advantage but the New Gods tech of Team 1 could easily give them the battle not sure yet
Good points, I was thinking about eliminating the flight from team two but the new gods are more than capable of keeping up with those abilities with what they have.
Team 2. Barda, while strong, is the weak link in this clash of titans.
Well she is weak to an extent. Her fighting skills are almost equal to Diana's but not quite there. Her weapons however have the ability of range attacks and although I am not completely sure yet I think it is possible for Orion to overpower Marvel, but IDK yet. I'd like to see more debate the issue first.
If any of the two New Gods ask MB for assistance, the Mother Box might be able to just summon down the lightning and turn the Marvel back into his human form (For a long while Billy was using a Mother Box to transform, because the Wizard had lost his power) or maybe I'm looking to far in this?
@Hohenheim_of_light: She's almost equal to Diana in fighting skill and she has the added versatility of the mother box and mega rod so she really isn't a weak link so to speak (I still think Diana can take her either way) but the thing is Barda could stalemate Diana long enough for Orion to finish Marvel than double team Diana. Our the battle may start off with Barda attacking Billy, which wouldn't end quick and that would leave Diana dealing with an enraged Orion. I don't really know, this could be close.
This could go either way but I go with Billy and Diana due to speed, flight and the wisdom of Solomon.
What about the the Wisdom of Athena?
Unless something has changed, WW doesn't have the wisdom of Athena. Does she?
If you think she does, from where do you get this idea?
It's preFlashpoint Wonder Woman. Athena is one of the Goddesses that contributed her abilities. Her wisdom and I think battle strategy as well. Where did you get the idea that she doesn't have it? Current Wonder Woman is still a big question mark though.
This could go either way but I go with Billy and Diana due to speed, flight and the wisdom of Solomon.
What about the the Wisdom of Athena?
Unless something has changed, WW doesn't have the wisdom of Athena. Does she?
If you think she does, from where do you get this idea?
It's preFlashpoint Wonder Woman. Athena is one of the Goddesses that contributed her abilities. Her wisdom and I think battle strategy as well. Where did you get the idea that she doesn't have it? Current Wonder Woman is still a big question mark though.
I got the idea that she didn't have it because I don't recall seeing it mentioned or listed as an official power/ability of hers since before the late 80's reboot by George Perez. I'm well aware that the Golden Age, Silver Age and Bronze Age versions of WW all had Athena's wisdom, but It didn't seem to carry over since. Where have you seen/read that she's had it in the Modern Age? I'm not trying to argue or anything like that, I seriously would like to know. :)
This could go either way but I go with Billy and Diana due to speed, flight and the wisdom of Solomon.
What about the the Wisdom of Athena?
Unless something has changed, WW doesn't have the wisdom of Athena. Does she?
If you think she does, from where do you get this idea?
It's preFlashpoint Wonder Woman. Athena is one of the Goddesses that contributed her abilities. Her wisdom and I think battle strategy as well. Where did you get the idea that she doesn't have it? Current Wonder Woman is still a big question mark though.
I got the idea that she didn't have it because I don't recall seeing it mentioned or listed as an official power/ability of hers since before the late 80's reboot by George Perez. I'm well aware that the Golden Age, Silver Age and Bronze Age versions of WW all had Athena's wisdom, but It didn't seem to carry over since. Where have you seen/read that she's had it in the Modern Age? I'm not trying to argue or anything like that, I seriously would like to know. :)
No it's ok I understand. I'll see if I can get a scan and get back to you a little later.
@termiteone4ever: I really don't get why she would be considered a weak link here by many. Her fighting skill is very close to Diana's, when they last fought Diana won but it was close, imo that would put her H2H fighting skill above Billy's. In this battle she has the added versatility of her mother box and full use of her mega-rod, both of which could cause serious problems, especially in this team battle. Barda did indeed use her mega-rod in that battle against WW as a melee weapon with a few added energy strikes, to its full extent, I don't know. She did not use the mother box to my knowledge. Point is although Diana may be Barda's superior as she is to many, Barda is in no way a slouch when it comes to getting busy on the battle field.
@termiteone4ever: I really don't get why she would be considered a weak link here by many. Her fighting skill is very close to Diana's, when they last fought Diana won but it was close, imo that would put her H2H fighting skill above Billy's. In this battle she has the added versatility of her mother box and full use of her mega-rod, both of which could cause serious problems, especially in this team battle. Barda did indeed use her mega-rod in that battle against WW as a melee weapon with a few added energy strikes, to its full extent, I don't know. She did not use the mother box to my knowledge. Point is although Diana may be Barda's superior as she is to many, Barda is in no way a slouch when it comes to getting busy on the battle field.
in fact,big barda is stronger...she can lifting the weight of a continent...
the continent weight ~~100 Billion billion tons........
but,wonder woman...the heracles can shqulder the earth however briefly...she is stronger than heracles....
we are not say big barda is weak....just wonder woman is stronger than her..
Team 1.Barda can certainly hold her own against Diana even if she wont win the fight.Its not the same with Marvel and Orion.Honestly i dont think anyone here can take Orion one v one
Okay people, I am well aware that Diana can beat Big Barda in a long grueling battle but Like I have said many many times how is she the weak link? Orion is probably just as superior to Captain Marvel as Diana is to Barda, is Captain Marvel a weak link too? If so does that not make an even battle here? Educate me a little bit because I'm really not understanding this whole weak link thing, you are acting as if she was some scrub that's gonna get one shotted here, using that logic the same can be said for Marvel..
@CapitolPunishment: I think they're trying to say that because Barda is the weakest of the four competitors, she is the weakest link in the boundaries of this fight. Any team with Barda is going to be weaker then it's opponent because of the inclusion of Barda in place of any of the other three competitors. Captain Marvel & Barda loses to Orion and Wonder Woman, because Barda loses to either of the two creating a 2 v 1 against Cap, and that theory works for all the team combinations.
Not to downplay Barda, she's a pretty strong character, but she just can't beat anyone else in this group. Meaning her team always loses.
Barda is strong. But Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, and Orion are all stronger.
Captain Marvel might have the speed edge on Orion.
I get that part and that's why its a team battle and also why I didn't pair up Barda with Marvel. I have seen nothing from Billy or Diana that would tell me Orion would not thrash either of them, on the other hand Barda is capable enough to at least give Wonder Woman a good fight here, who knows how she would do against Billy. Also you have to keep in mind she has the added advantage of the mother box in this battle. When she fought Diana it was a close battle and she did not utilize that device at all. Barda also did not take full advantage of the Mega Rod which in the past put Superman to his knees then KO'd him in a few seconds (albeit a cheap shot). She may be physically the weakest of the four in the battle but IMHO her team mate/cousin is more than a match for a one on one battle against either of the opposing team.
That is exactly why I think the whole "weak link" comment does not fit, if I paired up Orion with someone more powerful this would be a stomp. Also thought it would be good to have two teams that know and work well with one another. Being that I made the thread I really don't want to debate for one side or another but I know all these characters pretty well and IMHO this is a close battle. If this was Orion and WW vs Billy and Barda I can see that "weak link" comment fitting better.
@Afro_Warrior:
I think they're trying to say that because Barda is the weakest of the four competitors, she is the weakest link in the boundaries of this fight.
This is still debatable, she may be physically behind Diana but not by much, in this battle she has full use of her tech so that may or may not close that gap but that's up to the viewers here to decide.
Any team with Barda is going to be weaker then it's opponent because of the inclusion of Barda in place of any of the other three competitors.
That is why I paired her up with the most powerful of the four, Barda is still more than capable of putting up a good fight against Diana or Billy without all of her tech but she has the tech here. Orion is more powerful than both of them in a one on one scenario. Imo that would make up for the slight edge Diana has over Barda. As i said above if Orion was paired up with someone more powerful this would be a stomp.
Captain Marvel & Barda loses to Orion and Wonder Woman, because Barda loses to either of the two creating a 2 v 1 against Cap, and that theory works for all the team combinations.
Not to downplay Barda, she's a pretty strong character, but she just can't beat anyone else in this group. Meaning her team always loses.
I get what you and the others are saying, I really do. The thing is Barda is not going to get taken out of this battle quickly, she has proven herself to ne able to match Diana for an extended amount of time in H2H combat, she has the advantage of tech and a more powerful teammate here. She also has an offensive weapon that is more powerful than anything Billy or Diana can dish out in her Mega-Rod.
@Super_SoldierXII said:
Orion's a beast. I say he can beat either WW or CM.
If Barda holds WW off long enough for Orion to finish CM this could go badly for team 2.
Still, giving the edge to team 2 for now
This is what I was thinking when I made the thread.
Anyhow back to the thread, to each his own. I respect everyone's opinion here, personally I think this is a close one to call.
P.S. Is it me or does DC vs DC or Marvel vs Marvel threads not get much love here? I am begining to think people only care about DC vs Marvel on these battle boards. Not saying this because of this thread, people may think this one just sux, that was just a general observation.
@a88378438: @Killemall: Okay people, I am well aware that Diana can beat Big Barda in a long grueling battle but Like I have said many many times how is she the weak link? Orion is probably just as superior to Captain Marvel as Diana is to Barda, is Captain Marvel a weak link too? If so does that not make an even battle here? Educate me a little bit because I'm really not understanding this whole weak link thing, you are acting as if she was some scrub that's gonna get one shotted here, using that logic the same can be said for Marvel..
Both team are very well balanced with the exception of Barda.
Only problem i see is morals else i think WW can beat her fairly quickly. I think barda will last 20 mins tops.
Captain Marvel definitely is not a weak link because Orion has defeated superman yes but has lost with him too. Same is captain marvel, besides later version of Captain Marvel looked significantly stronger.
No she is not gonna get one shotted but she will get punched like a thousands time in about few mins (she'll land few punches too) but will lose pretty quickly.
Thanks for the reply man, sorry to get back to it so late but been a bit busy and could not post scans to solidify my points before.
Here are a few points:
Both team are very well balanced with the exception of Barda.
I have to disagree here, Barda may seem like the slouch here but she is not one by any means. In pure H2H combat she is very close to being WW's equal. In this battle both agreed not to hold back, the battle was limited to melee combat. Wonder Woman was the winner after a long close battle.
That was a sparing match that they both agreed not to hold back, to solidify this point here are scans of her taking on Wonder Woman one million.
Only problem i see is morals else i think WW can beat her fairly quickly. I think barda will last 20 mins tops.
The thing is if Barda is without morals she is quite deadly. She has defeated the combined team of Guy Gardner (Green Lantern) and Fire (sorry, don't have those scans handy). In the scans below she damn near kills Superman (It was a seemingly cheap shot though), if she is not holding back and attacks Marvel with the Mega-rod I don't see him fairing much better than Superman did. I don't see her going down quickly here by any means, she also has her mother box for an added advantage.
Captain Marvel definitely is not a weak link because Orion has defeated superman yes but has lost with him too. Same is captain marvel, besides later version of Captain Marvel looked significantly stronger.
IMO and also how the two characters have been written Orion is Captain Marvel's superior in combat. By far? No. My point was that Orion is just about as superior to Marvel as Diana is to Barda. What I am getting at is neither are weak links here/ In addition to the scans I provided and battles referenced Barda is not utilizing her mother box in any of them, she has it here.
No she is not gonna get one shotted but she will get punched like a thousands time in about few mins (she'll land few punches too) but will lose pretty quickly.
I think what I have provided should make it clear this will not happen.
Can Wonder Woman beat Barda? Yes, I would agree to that but it will by no means be an easy win for her, rather a long exhausting battle, probably about the time it takes Orion to put down Captain Marvel.
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