Original Human Torch (Jim Hammond) vs. Firelord

I saw a Human Torch vs Firelord posted before, but I'm pretty sure that was based off of Johnny Storm.

I wanna know if the original HT, Jim Hammond (the one who took out Sentry in seconds, and held off the entire Mighty Avengers team with ease) could stand a better chance against this Herald of Galactus?

Firelord

You think so? Even though Jim was able to set Sentry on fire from the inside out in less than seconds? And with a small thermal release was able to knock people such and Ms. Marvel, Ares, and Wonderman on their asses?

How is he any different from Johnny Storm?

"How is he any different from Johnny Storm?"

"Firelord would win... I dont think the Original Human Torch was that much stronger than the Current One...
"

Could the Human Torch/Jim Hammond fly into the sun?
Fighting Firelord would be dealing with fire with the intensity of the sun.
He has no chance. He might melt.

"King Saturn said:

"Firelord would win... I dont think the Original Human Torch was that much stronger than the Current One...
"

Have you been reading Avengers/Invaders? Jim is solo-ing the entire Mighty Avengers squad, without trying."

"Could the Human Torch/Jim Hammond fly into the sun?
Fighting Firelord would be dealing with fire with the intensity of the sun.
He has no chance. He might melt."

"Nitric said:

"King Saturn said:

"Firelord would win... I dont think the Original Human Torch was that much stronger than the Current One...
"

Have you been reading Avengers/Invaders? Jim is solo-ing the entire Mighty Avengers squad, without trying."

Really?  I mean, he has super strength and some other things that put him above Johnny but I wouldn't put him over Iron Man or Ms Marvel unless he got a huge power boost recently."

"I dunno about the whole power boost, but no-ones even been able to get close to him. And he was talking about doing stuff like being able to boil people's blood inside their body, and he set Sentry on fire from the inside out, and so on, so forth."

Firelord easily wins.
Firelord is massively stronger than even the original android Torch (Firelord lifts 50 tonnes vs Torch's 500 lbs - or thereabouts).
Firelord could beat Torch to death with his hands as Torch's flame would do nothing to Firelord.
As Firelord can produce fire hotter than Torch, he could literally burn him to death.
Even if Firelord does not use his flames or fists, he can also project other Electromagnetic energies (microwaves, radio, light (including Infrared and Ultraviolet), x-ray and gamma rays) as well as gravity. He could several of these to also kill the Torch who would have not resistance to them as his flame sheath would provide no protection to say gravity or gamma rays.
Firelord's control of flame is also greater, so that he could simply extinguish the Torch's flame.

Firelord has all the advantages including having virtually unlimited endurance, faster reactions and faster flight.

The Torch is dead.

"King Saturn said:

"Firelord would win... I dont think the Original Human Torch was that much stronger than the Current One...
"

Have you been reading Avengers/Invaders? Jim is solo-ing the entire Mighty Avengers squad, without trying."

Yeah, I've been thinking about this post today, and I completely realized, I'm completely wrong to think Jim could win. Cause yeah, he seems pretty darn tough to me, but honestly, what could he do that could hurt Firelord? I guess nothing. that, and in Avengers/Invaders, it clearly says like a billion times they're trying not to hurt him.

Thank's for your points Creator and King Saturn!

This guy i know did a great respect thread on him KS

check this out


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t491111.html

"This guy i know did a great respect thread on him KS

check this out


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t491111.html"

"Alpha said:

"Could the Human Torch/Jim Hammond fly into the sun?
Fighting Firelord would be dealing with fire with the intensity of the sun.
He has no chance. He might melt."

What do you mean melt? Jim is a robot!?"

"Static Shock said:

"Alpha said:

"Could the Human Torch/Jim Hammond fly into the sun?
Fighting Firelord would be dealing with fire with the intensity of the sun.
He has no chance. He might melt."

What do you mean melt? Jim is a robot!?"

Android!"

"Alpha said:

"Static Shock said:

"Alpha said:

"Could the Human Torch/Jim Hammond fly into the sun?
Fighting Firelord would be dealing with fire with the intensity of the sun.
He has no chance. He might melt."

What do you mean melt? Jim is a robot!?"

Android!"

Android... Robot... Cyborg... all the same freakin thing...

LOL
"

torch already kicked johnny's butt......he can take firelord too..........and no amount of heat can "burn" or "melt" hammond.he is completely and utterly immune to heat(only contradiction of that fact exists in new invaders #9). I doubt firelord is even hotter. jim's flame is around that same atomic level too ever since around 1954. it would come down to h2h, and since jim is a superdurable android who sometimes exhibits a healing factor and superhuman strength,aswell as an accomplished fighter who was trained by steve rogers with decades of experience, I'd say he wins.

"torch already kicked johnny's butt......he can take firelord too..........and no amount of heat can "burn" or "melt" hammond.he is completely and utterly immune to heat(only contradiction of that fact exists in new invaders #9). I doubt firelord is even hotter. jim's flame is around that same atomic level too ever since around 1954. it would come down to h2h, and since jim is a superdurable android who sometimes exhibits a healing factor and superhuman strength,aswell as an accomplished fighter who was trained by steve rogers with decades of experience, I'd say he wins."

still though, firelord could not "melt" or "burn" him."

lol...............that's a statement concerning johnny storm, not jim hammmond. I've seen it several times. now if you went to the marvel database and checked you'd find that statement for the original torch too, but you should also check johnnys page and realize that someone just copied a discription of his powers onto jim's page..........I mean because they're both exactly the same right? lol


actually torch is stated to be the master of all flame and utterly immune to them several times in his actual comic appearances. like i said before, the only contradiction of this fact is found in New Invaders #9, where he died of a heat overload...........I expected as much from a series that had wolverine kick the crap out of namor.

firelord wins

"lol...............that's a statement concerning johnny storm, not jim hammmond. I've seen it several times. now if you went to the marvel database and checked you'd find that statement for the original torch too, but you should also check johnnys page and realize that someone just copied a discription of his powers onto jim's page..........I mean because they're both exactly the same right? lol


actually torch is stated to be the master of all flame and utterly immune to them several times in his actual comic appearances. like i said before, the only contradiction of this fact is found in New Invaders #9, where he died of a heat overload...........I expected as much from a series that had wolverine kick the crap out of namor."

"namorsubby said:

"lol...............that's a statement concerning johnny storm, not jim hammmond. I've seen it several times. now if you went to the marvel database and checked you'd find that statement for the original torch too, but you should also check johnnys page and realize that someone just copied a discription of his powers onto jim's page..........I mean because they're both exactly the same right? lol


actually torch is stated to be the master of all flame and utterly immune to them several times in his actual comic appearances. like i said before, the only contradiction of this fact is found in New Invaders #9, where he died of a heat overload...........I expected as much from a series that had wolverine kick the crap out of namor."

Actually it's from a Marvel Handbook (written word), not an online source and the entry was for the original Torch."

"the creator said:

"namorsubby said:

"lol...............that's a statement concerning johnny storm, not jim hammmond. I've seen it several times. now if you went to the marvel database and checked you'd find that statement for the original torch too, but you should also check johnnys page and realize that someone just copied a discription of his powers onto jim's page..........I mean because they're both exactly the same right? lol


actually torch is stated to be the master of all flame and utterly immune to them several times in his actual comic appearances. like i said before, the only contradiction of this fact is found in New Invaders #9, where he died of a heat overload...........I expected as much from a series that had wolverine kick the crap out of namor."

Actually it's from a Marvel Handbook (written word), not an online source and the entry was for the original Torch."

you sure? because I've seen that exact statment before, on the marvel database..............problem is hammond's max output is not 1.000,000 degrees, Johnny's is. Hammond's max output has never been specified, but it is almost definitely more than johnny's, given his atomic upgrade in 1954, and the fact that he not only can regualrly generate nova level blasts without seriously depleting like johnny, but has also once before hurt johnny with his flame.all this is besides the point though..........it has been stated several times one way or another in comics that hammond is immune to all heat/flame"

hammond has never been burned by any flame in all his appearances

"hammond has never been burned by any flame in all his appearances"

the creator said:

"namorsubby said:

"the creator said:

"namorsubby said:

"lol...............that's a statement concerning johnny storm, not jim hammmond. I've seen it several times. now if you went to the marvel database and checked you'd find that statement for the original torch too, but you should also check johnnys page and realize that someone just copied a discription of his powers onto jim's page..........I mean because they're both exactly the same right? lol


actually torch is stated to be the master of all flame and utterly immune to them several times in his actual comic appearances. like i said before, the only contradiction of this fact is found in New Invaders #9, where he died of a heat overload...........I expected as much from a series that had wolverine kick the crap out of namor."

Actually it's from a Marvel Handbook (written word), not an online source and the entry was for the original Torch."

you sure? because I've seen that exact statment before, on the marvel database..............problem is hammond's max output is not 1.000,000 degrees, Johnny's is. Hammond's max output has never been specified, but it is almost definitely more than johnny's, given his atomic upgrade in 1954, and the fact that he not only can regualrly generate nova level blasts without seriously depleting like johnny, but has also once before hurt johnny with his flame.all this is besides the point though..........it has been stated several times one way or another in comics that hammond is immune to all heat/flame"

Yes, I'm sure. I checked it before I left for work this morning.Hammond's output is also stated to be arppx 1,000,000 deg FEven if he has a slightly higher tmperature or can generate more Nova flame than Johnny Storm, from what I have read and seen, I don't think he is  immune to temepratures that exceed his max temp."

firelord ftw

what have you read or seen that contradicts this fact?"

"namorsubby said:

still though, firelord could not "melt" or "burn" him."

Here's a quote from a handbook on the original Torch,

"The Human Torch is unaffected by heat and flames, including his own, even when part of him is aflame and the rest of him is not. His flesh cannot be scalded or burned by any heat source whose level is below that of his maximum output."Torch's maximum output is 1,000,000 deg F.Firelord can reach temperatures seen much closer to those seen in stars, so he should be capable of reaching several million degs F."

lol..........a statement that supposedly resides in a marvel handbook? vs several that contradict it and his actual comic appearaces(which is really what matters)?

"lol..........a statement that supposedly resides in a marvel handbook? vs several that contradict it and his actual comic appearaces(which is really what matters)?"

"namorsubby said:

"hammond has never been burned by any flame in all his appearances"

How many fire / heat sources on the planet Earth do you know that can exceed 1,000,000 deg F ?Unless he happens to be in a particle accelerator or some other high end tech, he will never encounter these temps."

firelord wins

Firelord easily.

namorsubby said:   the creator said: namorsubby said: "lol..........a statement that supposedly resides in a marvel handbook? vs several that ... [more]

This fight is not even close. Human torch cannot hurt Firelord in any way whatsoever!  Even if you believe that Firelord cannot injure torch with his heat, he can fly at light speed and lift 50 tons!! So he either blitzs torch at 186,000 mps or he walks up to him and literally pulls his head off.

crap?..........you've got to be crazy to think you can read a page out of a handbook and think you know what you're talking about, especially concerning such an obscure character.

"his feats do not exceed johnny storm's"???

lol, I know for a fact you haven't been reading too many of his appearances. maybe try the one where he schools johnny and shows him tricks with flame he can't match.taking that into consideration, this quote begins to sound sort of idiotic:

"His feats do not exceed those of Johnny Storm, in the area of fire (plasma) projection and control."

he has been stated to be the master of flame on several occassions, he has never been burnt, and he has better feats than storm. want proof, find it yourself, but i'll do you one better. I've set out hundreds of scans of feats of Jim Hammond's in a nice little thread. check it out. I assure you that after you  thoroughly inspect it you'll appear much more educated than you do when you waltz into an argument assuming you know everything about a character from reading a invalid page in a handbook.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t491111.html

oh, and i never gave a specific heat output for torch. don't put words in my mouth. I specifically said that his heat output has gone unspecified through the years but is almost definitely higher than johnny's due to his atomic boost in 1954 and the fact that he can regularly generate nova blasts without completely depleting himself. that and he has affected people with flame that johnny has failed to or at least most likely couldn't (killed ironman with heat, affects namor, floored mighty avengers roster, etc)

oh, and what in lord's name do you mean by saying you're only interested in their "surface powers"? if their abilities and attributes aren't the same, then they aren't the same. superhuman durability, combat training/fighting skills,expansive experience, no need to breathe, immortaility...........are you really trying to tell me these things don't count for anything?


ps:

oh and btw, you spewing all this trash about how i should prove myself, but you simply tell me to go out and get a handbook if i wanna know whether what you claim is true. extremely hypocritical. I've got scans. why don't you show me a scan of the page from this handbook. make sure it hasn't been outdated by a newer version as well.

okay the creator,  before you feel the need to respond just as rudely and negatively, i'm stopping this right here.

there's no need for either of us to be replying in the manner in which we have due to differing veiwpoints. the truth is, i felt  a statement of yours a while back to be slightly offensive, and although I tried to make that known in a polite manner, after that attempt i may have responded accordingly in a way that may have been slightly offensive to you, and i apologize.from there it seemed only to progress. I understand that what is in a handbook is to be viewed as valid, and that you understandably take that statement as law above my own contradicting statements, but I feel that since that statement was made for johnny and then simply applied to jim because they are similar that it doesn't  serve as a good source. almost all stat and bio statements are generally based off of what is shown in comics. I assume that since they have specific temperature limitations and resistance stats for johnny(the ones that were applied to jim as well) that he actually has had some experience in his comic appearances that defined these limitations, while jim did not. having not read any johnny storm appearances which support this, i don't know for sure, but it is logical to assume. I completely understand your differing veiwpoint and respect it.

Read your PMs.

good response short and sweet now do bloodaxe vs she hulk.. bye the bye Kril wins

johnny storm stomps them both