• 53 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by DeathHero61 (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight takes place in marine ford.

Morals off.

#2 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

Logically, Borsalino should win, but since Aokiji and Akainu are portrayed slightly superior to Kizaru, Akainu has the majority IMO, since he already beat Aokiji. Aokiji lost a leg too. So if using current versions Akainu takes it even more.

Online
#3 Posted by lowlaville (5200 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: I have to agree, he is the most capable out of the three. Akainu wins.

#4 Posted by Pierpat (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

Now.If we go by Feats, Kizaru Stomps.

By lore,powerscalingand common sense, Akainu wins.

#5 Posted by Juiceboks (10663 posts) - - Show Bio

Akainu takes it handily.

#6 Posted by BlackWind (7188 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Kizaru definitely solos the entire Navy...if he has his snail phone. "Moshi moshi!" for the win.

#7 Posted by solon (421 posts) - - Show Bio

Akainu takes it.

#8 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#10 Edited by Experio (17156 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I hate him Akainu wins cause of how his portrayed as Ghostravage stated, but Kizaru should be able to defeat him (Light-speed kicks)

Online
#11 Posted by Cooldes (4163 posts) - - Show Bio

Kizaru

#12 Posted by DeathHero61 (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Considering how kizaru utilizes his abilities i'm leaning towards him. Akainu is not really the best in close combat. Aokoji, took on the pre-water 7 arc monster trio by himself in close combat. But then again aokoji did lose to akainu so..... i doubt that has any relevance.

#13 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Kizaru was afraid of Ben Beckman while Akainu fought Whitebeard head on. As well as beating Aokiji almost to death. He's the greatest of the Admirals, and for that reason he managed to become Fleet Admiral. Nuff said. :P

Online
#14 Edited by DeathHero61 (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Do you have any real reason why he beats kizaru? Plus you do know that ben beckman most likely had haki and had a gun pointed at kizaru's head?

#15 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20243 posts) - - Show Bio

Sakazuki takes it..

#16 Posted by DeathHero61 (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

kizaru wins.

#17 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Do you have any real reason why he beats kizaru? Plus you do know that ben beckman most likely had haki and had a gun pointed at kizaru's head?

Weird... I didn't get the notification... Anyways. No.

Kizaru didn't have the gun pointed at his head, he was actually significantly far from Ben to begin with. This strengthen the point that he only moves at such speed while using Yata no Kagami (Mirrors)... As well as not fighting at lightspeed against Rayleigh nor against Zephyr.

Online
#18 Edited by DeathHero61 (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:

@ghostravage: Do you have any real reason why he beats kizaru? Plus you do know that ben beckman most likely had haki and had a gun pointed at kizaru's head?

Weird... I didn't get the notification... Anyways. No.

Kizaru didn't have the gun pointed at his head, he was actually significantly far from Ben to begin with. This strengthen the point that he only moves at such speed while using Yata no Kagami (Mirrors)... As well as not fighting at lightspeed against Rayleigh nor against Zephyr.

He was about to shoot a light beam not utilize yata no kagami.

His combat speed is light speed if not massively hypersonic.

Lets see aokoji and akainu top this please...... despite that 10 island fight, i cannot image them keeping up with kizaru.

#19 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (11077 posts) - - Show Bio

Borsalino

#20 Posted by OblivionKnight (3347 posts) - - Show Bio

Kizaru takes this very easily assuming their hakis are around the same area. I mean, one kick from kizaru and they'll be in quite a large amount of pain.

#21 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20243 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:
@deathhero61 said:

@ghostravage: Do you have any real reason why he beats kizaru? Plus you do know that ben beckman most likely had haki and had a gun pointed at kizaru's head?

Weird... I didn't get the notification... Anyways. No.

Kizaru didn't have the gun pointed at his head, he was actually significantly far from Ben to begin with. This strengthen the point that he only moves at such speed while using Yata no Kagami (Mirrors)... As well as not fighting at lightspeed against Rayleigh nor against Zephyr.

He was about to shoot a light beam not utilize yata no kagami.

His combat speed is light speed if not massively hypersonic.

Lets see aokoji and akainu top this please...... despite that 10 island fight, i cannot image them keeping up with kizaru.

Idk how that counts as a lightspeed feat. Hypersonic? yes. many hypersonic characters have done almost the same, like haku with naruto clones.. But lightspeed is like.. mach 909000.. that's way too high for this kind of feat.

#22 Edited by DeathHero61 (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:time slowed down when he was about to kick one of them...... he also stated he can kick his opponents at light speed......

#23 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20243 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: you know.. genryusai's ikkotsu hit harder than the supposed 'kick at light speed'? If it really was at the speed of light, mad monk would have left the planet..

#24 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Here is old man Rayleigh fighting Kizaru:

Kizaru is too laid back. Even when fighting the first mate of Roger's old crew (who the world is very intent on trying to wipe out) he isn't quite moving the speed of light, or even really that fast. Kizaru is an Admiral, so his haki is strong, of course, but Akainu is an incredibly determined individual with very clear goals and a strong will to achieve those goals. His haki is fierce. I think Akainu takes it, simply because he takes everything way too seriously.

#25 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: The first video just proved me right. He didn't have the gun at point blank, he was significantly far from Ben. I didn't say he was going to use Yata no Kagami... I said that's the only way he can move at lightspeed.

Anyway, what being showed in slowmotion has to do with his combat speed, it was the first time an Admiral was fighting at such scale. Anyway, the only moment he moved at lightpseed was when he used Yata no Kagami and he literally re-appeared right next to the beat boxer guy. Then he does exactly the same to X Drake.

Why would someone like Kizaru be afraid of a guy with a gun if he can move at the speed of light? Again, it strengthen my point that on Yata no Kagami makes him move that fast.

Online
#26 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20243 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: The first video just proved me right. He didn't have the gun at point blank, he was significantly far from Ben. I didn't say he was going to use Yata no Kagami... I said that's the only way he can move at lightspeed.

Anyway, what being showed in slowmotion has to do with his combat speed, it was the first time an Admiral was fighting at such scale. Anyway, the only moment he moved at lightpseed was when he used Yata no Kagami and he literally re-appeared right next to the beat boxer guy. Then he does exactly the same to X Drake.

Why would someone like Kizaru be afraid of a guy with a gun if he can move at the speed of light? Again, it strengthen my point that on Yata no Kagami makes him move that fast.

yep, he kind of did.

I'd say the ben beckman feat was a low-showing though. There's no way a guy with kizaru's speed can be worried about bullets. I hope we'll get to see a satisfactory answer on that later, or it'd be as big a fail as pein's 'five seconds'!

#27 Edited by BlackWind (7188 posts) - - Show Bio

It's just speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if Beckman was someone to worry about. He's a Yonko's first mate and a New World veteran. Either that, or Kizaru was just trolling again. I'll accept either explanation.

#28 Posted by lowlaville (5200 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: lol Kizaru is like Enel in most ways. cowards. lmao

#29 Edited by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@ghostravage said:

@deathhero61: The first video just proved me right. He didn't have the gun at point blank, he was significantly far from Ben. I didn't say he was going to use Yata no Kagami... I said that's the only way he can move at lightspeed.

Anyway, what being showed in slowmotion has to do with his combat speed, it was the first time an Admiral was fighting at such scale. Anyway, the only moment he moved at lightpseed was when he used Yata no Kagami and he literally re-appeared right next to the beat boxer guy. Then he does exactly the same to X Drake.

Why would someone like Kizaru be afraid of a guy with a gun if he can move at the speed of light? Again, it strengthen my point that on Yata no Kagami makes him move that fast.

yep, he kind of did.

I'd say the ben beckman feat was a low-showing though. There's no way a guy with kizaru's speed can be worried about bullets. I hope we'll get to see a satisfactory answer on that later, or it'd be as big a fail as pein's 'five seconds'!

the Yata no Kagami is not even lightspeed, you still see Apoo moving above the buildings when the technique activates and the ray bounces from the buildings, against any high-tier that technique should be useless.

I don´t think that Kizaru was really in danger against Beckman, Aokiji could reform around WBs haki imbued halberd strike, then Kizaru should have no problem to let a little bullet slip through himself.

#31 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

the Yata no Kagami is not even lightspeed, you still see Apoo moving above the buildings when the technique activates and the ray bounces from the buildings, against any high-tier that technique should be useless.

I don´t think that Kizaru was really in danger against Beckman, Aokiji could reform around WBs haki imbued halberd strike, then Kizaru should have no problem to let a bullet slip through himself.

Im not talking about the Mirrors. Im talking about the movement he performs WITH the Mirrors, 2 totally different things. He's indeed lightspeed when moving through mirrors, he can instantly appear next to foes without them even noticing it.

What proof do you have that WB's Halberd was imbued with Haki? His Earthquakes attacks were the same color as the bubble that surrounded the Halberd, most likely would be he was imbuing his halberd with his DF ability. Not to mention, it took the Haki of the 3 Admirals to stop an attack that was directed to the HeadQuarter by WB.

Online
#32 Posted by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

the Yata no Kagami is not even lightspeed, you still see Apoo moving above the buildings when the technique activates and the ray bounces from the buildings, against any high-tier that technique should be useless.

I don´t think that Kizaru was really in danger against Beckman, Aokiji could reform around WBs haki imbued halberd strike, then Kizaru should have no problem to let a bullet slip through himself.

Im not talking about the Mirrors. Im talking about the movement he performs WITH the Mirrors, 2 totally different things. He's indeed lightspeed when moving through mirrors, he can instantly appear next to foes without them even noticing it.

What proof do you have that WB's Halberd was imbued with Haki? His Earthquakes attacks were the same color as the bubble that surrounded the Halberd, most likely would be he was imbuing his halberd with his DF ability. Not to mention, it took the Haki of the 3 Admirals to stop an attack that was directed to the HeadQuarter by WB.

Why would he need to travel along that ray? He is the ray he sends out and at the end he just materializes, but that doesn´t really matter, it a useless technique either way.

The pirates that were standing around commented that it was a Haki imbued stab iirc. The admirals blocked that attack to protect the platform, it wouldnt had done anything to themself.

#33 Edited by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

The pirates that were standing around commented that it was a Haki imbued stab iirc.

You're talking about this instance?

Not only Aokiji tells them to stop talking nonsense... But WB didn't use/showed any visible Haki in the entire Marine Fort... This is just an assumption by your part. Not like the next panel when Jozu tackles him and actually does something to him.

The difference between Jozu and Whitebeard is... That Jozu actually showed Haki in a instance before this when he hit Crocodile and harmed him the same way he harmed Aokiji.

=======================================================================================

The admirals blocked that attack to protect the platform, it wouldnt had done anything to themself.

Yeah, but it still took the 3 of them to stop such attack. 1 couldn't have done it by himself, because, you know... If that was the case, why would all of them need to stand up and act? Why not only Kizaru?

Why would he need to travel along that ray? He is the ray he sends out and at the end he just materializes, but that doesn´t really matter, it a useless technique either way.

He uses that technique to travel quite far distances, at least combat wise, as seen in Sabaody... The fact that he can move fast in close combat is possibly due to Soru, which he must have by default given his rank in the Marine.

The technique is not useless... Why would it be useless if he can travel at lightspeed while doing it, really, he just appears like a flash infront of people when he uses that technique.

Online
#34 Posted by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

The pirates that were standing around commented that it was a Haki imbued stab iirc.

You're talking about this instance?

Not only Aokiji tells them to stop talking nonsense... But WB didn't use/showed any visible Haki in the entire Marine Fort... This is just an assumption by your part. Not like the next panel when Jozu tackles him and actually does something to him.

The difference between Jozu and Whitebeard is... That Jozu actually showed Haki in a instance before this when he hit Crocodile and harmed him the same way he harmed Aokiji.

=======================================================================================

The admirals blocked that attack to protect the platform, it wouldnt had done anything to themself.

Yeah, but it still took the 3 of them to stop such attack. 1 couldn't have done it by himself, because, you know... If that was the case, why would all of them need to stand up and act? Why not only Kizaru?

Why would he need to travel along that ray? He is the ray he sends out and at the end he just materializes, but that doesn´t really matter, it a useless technique either way.

He uses that technique to travel quite far distances, at least combat wise, as seen in Sabaody... The fact that he can move fast in close combat is possibly due to Soru, which he must have by default given his rank in the Marine.

The technique is not useless... Why would it be useless if he can travel at lightspeed while doing it, really, he just appears like a flash infront of people when he uses that technique.

That "nonsense" was a respond to the pirates saying "aokiji is dead" not the haki statement. It would be stupid in the first place for WB, attacking without haki in a fight with a logia. He knows that his attacks /df-attacks won´t do anything to Aokiji.

Most likely all of them used a shield because it was an aoe attack and only one couldnt cover the whole space and they did it without any sign of strain.

Imo it is useless, because you can see where the ray is bouncing of the wall and predict where he appears, against fodder like Apoo it worked due to the surpise but that won´t work on a high tier. If the ray would really travel at lightspeed THAT would be impressive, but first he has to "slowly" create a path which he can use to travel fast. I think that is a compromise from Oda, because if he could use lightspeed in an actual battle then he would be to powerful.

#35 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

That "nonsense" was a respond to the pirates saying "aokiji is dead" not the haki statement. It would be stupid in the first place for WB, attacking without haki in a fight with a logia. He knows that his attacks /df-attacks won´t do anything to Aokiji.

Still, Aokiji wasn't hurt at all by WB, and the fact he didn't use any Haki in Marine Fort makes my point even more valid... Nonetheless, look at what Marco said when he got stabbed.

It was CLEARLY visible he wasn't on his peak anymore, and that he was actually quite weak and sick. Im not implying that White Beard doesn't posses Haki, but its more plausible it didn't use Haki because he was too sick and weak... Again, you're just making assumptions, it's understandable a guy like WB had Haki and all that, but facts shows otherwise.

And you're wrong... his DF was harming Akainu greatly when he fought him, again he didn't showed Haki, ever...

Most likely all of them used a shield because it was an aoe attack and only one couldnt cover the whole space and they did it without any sign of strain.

We don't know... you can't assume he would be able to handle such attack by himself if Akainu was getting hard rocked when fighting WB. However, it's a logical approach of yours. Why are we arguing this again?

Imo it is useless, because you can see where the ray is bouncing of the wall and predict where he appears, against fodder like Apoo it worked due to the surpise but that won´t work on a high tier.

It doesn't matter if you know where he's going to appear, you just CAN'T react to lightspeed. That FAR too fast for anyone to act. It takes time to do such technique but once it's done, it's kind of flawless.

I think that is a compromise from Oda, because if he could use lightspeed in an actual battle then he would be to powerful.

Probably, but this doesn't debunk anything i've said.

Online
#36 Posted by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

That "nonsense" was a respond to the pirates saying "aokiji is dead" not the haki statement. It would be stupid in the first place for WB, attacking without haki in a fight with a logia. He knows that his attacks /df-attacks won´t do anything to Aokiji.

Still, Aokiji wasn't hurt at all by WB, and the fact he didn't use any Haki in Marine Fort makes my point even more valid... Nonetheless, look at what Marco said when he got stabbed.

It was CLEARLY visible he wasn't on his peak anymore, and that he was actually quite weak and sick. Im not implying that White Beard doesn't posses Haki, but its more plausible it didn't use Haki because he was too sick and weak... Again, you're just making assumptions, it's understandable a guy like WB had Haki and all that, but facts shows otherwise.

And you're wrong... his DF was harming Akainu greatly when he fought him, again he didn't showed Haki, ever...

Most likely all of them used a shield because it was an aoe attack and only one couldnt cover the whole space and they did it without any sign of strain.

We don't know... you can't assume he would be able to handle such attack by himself if Akainu was getting hard rocked when fighting WB. However, it's a logical approach of yours. Why are we arguing this again?

Imo it is useless, because you can see where the ray is bouncing of the wall and predict where he appears, against fodder like Apoo it worked due to the surpise but that won´t work on a high tier.

It doesn't matter if you know where he's going to appear, you just CAN'T react to lightspeed. That FAR too fast for anyone to act. It takes time to do such technique but once it's done, it's kind of flawless.

I think that is a compromise from Oda, because if he could use lightspeed in an actual battle then he would be to powerful.

Probably, but this doesn't debunk anything i've said.

But what does the haki usage have to do with his health status? Clearly he wasn´t at 100% but you are making assumption as well, he could have used haki or charged his weapon with an earthquake. We can´t be 100% sure but with the statement from the pirates standing around, for me it makes much more sense that he used haki to stab Aokiji and he simply reformd around the attack, which should be no problem for a Logia. It is also possible that Aokijis Busoshoku was at that moment stronger than WBs so he couldn´t get through his elemental-"intang" and attack Aokijis pyhsical body, like Marco/Vista couldn´t hurt Akainu with their haki imbued attacks.

Such an attack wouldn´t have hurt them, they tried to protect the platform not themself. Honestly i don´t know why we arguing that ^^ xD

yes but that is my point, he doesn´t move at lightspeed

sec 11, kizaru reappeared and even in slomo appo is still moving during the attack, if that was truly lightspeed he would have been kicked by kizaru without doing anything because the timeframe would be way too short.

edit: this site sucks @mobile, is this only the case for apple devices? i cant reply, can´t post videos, callouts don´t work.....

#37 Edited by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

But what does the haki usage have to do with his health status? Clearly he wasn´t at 100% but you are making assumption as well, he could have used haki or charged his weapon with an earthquake.

If you're weak, you shouldn't be able to use your Armament of Colors at max, you get tired and it becomes weaker. Why am i making an assumption if he didn't show Haki in the first place, not even once... This is going in circles with no reason, you have no base whatsoever to claim he was using Haki, Jozu on the other hand has on-panel proof to be able to harm logias.

He didn't had the Halberd charged with the Gura power either... This is how it looks...

Totally different to how it looked when he "pierced" Aokiji.

yes but that is my point, he doesn´t move at lightspeed

sec 11, kizaru reappeared and even in slomo appo is still moving during the attack, if that was truly lightspeed he would have been kicked by kizaru without doing anything because the timeframe would be way too short.

So you're just ignoring the very LARGE portion of field he just managed to skip in a flash reappearing right next to Appo? C'mon man, i don't know how can i put it more simple. Not to mention, he moved so fast afterwards, that X Drake was still looking at the spot where he hit Appo when Kizaru had his foot right infront of his face...

Really man, it's visible how he is shining again, and literally disappears as a flash. How can you keep ignoring this?

edit: this site sucks @mobile, is this only the case for apple devices? i cant reply, can´t post videos, callouts don´t work.....

I really don't know mate.

for me it makes much more sense that he used haki to stab Aokiji and he simply reformd around the attack, which should be no problem for a Logia.

It doesn't matter if it makes more sense to you or not, facts are showing otherwise mate, you can't argue with assumptions. Not to mention, this is a flawed logic, Shanks appeared to put an end to the War (<3 Shanks) and he stopped Akainu's attack without trouble at all, it worked literally as a wall, and judging how he did it, he could stab him the same way, you know, the same way White Beard didn't do it. He didn't use Haki, there's so much proof to prove it.

=========================================================================================

It is also possible that Aokijis Busoshoku was at that moment stronger than WBs so he couldn´t get through his elemental-"intang" and attack Aokijis pyhsical body, like Marco/Vista couldn´t hurt Akainu with their haki imbued attacks.

How that even makes sense? How is Armament of Colors helping the intangibility of Logias? WB didn't use Haki, plain and simple. That's a reaching argument to be honest.

Online
#38 Edited by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio
@ghostravage said:

@ratava

But what does the haki usage have to do with his health status? Clearly he wasn´t at 100% but you are making assumption as well, he could have used haki or charged his weapon with an earthquake.

If you're weak, you shouldn't be able to use your Armament of Colors at max, you get tired and it becomes weaker. Why am i making an assumption if he didn't show Haki in the first place, not even once... This is going in circles with no reason, you have no base whatsoever to claim he was using Haki, Jozu on the other hand has on-panel proof to be able to harm logias.

He didn't had the Halberd charged with the Gura power either... This is how it looks...

Totally different to how it looked when he "pierced" Aokiji.

yes but that is my point, he doesn´t move at lightspeed

sec 11, kizaru reappeared and even in slomo appo is still moving during the attack, if that was truly lightspeed he would have been kicked by kizaru without doing anything because the timeframe would be way too short.

So you're just ignoring the very LARGE portion of field he just managed to skip in a flash reappearing right next to Appo? C'mon man, i don't know how can i put it more simple. Not to mention, he moved so fast afterwards, that X Drake was still looking at the spot where he hit Appo when Kizaru had his foot right infront of his face...

Really man, it's visible how he is shining again, and literally disappears as a flash. How can you keep ignoring this?

edit: this site sucks @mobile, is this only the case for apple devices? i cant reply, can´t post videos, callouts don´t work.....

I really don't know mate.

for me it makes much more sense that he used haki to stab Aokiji and he simply reformd around the attack, which should be no problem for a Logia.

It doesn't matter if it makes more sense to you or not, facts are showing otherwise mate, you can't argue with assumptions. Not to mention, this is a flawed logic, Shanks appeared to put an end to the War (<3 Shanks) and he stopped Akainu's attack without trouble at all, it worked literally as a wall, and judging how he did it, he could stab him the same way, you know, the same way White Beard didn't do it. He didn't use Haki, there's so much proof to prove it.

=========================================================================================

It is also possible that Aokijis Busoshoku was at that moment stronger than WBs so he couldn´t get through his elemental-"intang" and attack Aokijis pyhsical body, like Marco/Vista couldn´t hurt Akainu with their haki imbued attacks.

How that even makes sense? How is Armament of Colors helping the intangibility of Logias? WB didn't use Haki, plain and simple. That's a reaching argument to be honest.

if he wasnt using haki then comment from the pirates would make no sense, i don´t believe that WB is so stupid and just attacking a Logia with a useless stab. He used it against Akainu so why not here.

I didn´t say he is slow, but he doesn´t move at lightspeed, in your video you see the reaction from drake how he is surprised that kizaru vanished, if kizaru was truly moving at lightspeed then in the moment he disappeared he would have kicked Drake and we wouldn´t even have seen drakes reaction.

Because there has to be an explanation why Akainu didn´t get hurt by Marco/Vista haki imbued attack, so most likely his Busoshoku is stronger than theirs.

#39 Posted by xlab3000 (3347 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Akainu tank a quake from Whitebeard and defeated Aokiji after a 10 day fight? Akainu wins IMO.

#40 Edited by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

if he wasnt using haki then comment from the pirates would make no sense, i don´t believe that WB is so stupid and just attacking a Logia with a useless stab. He used it against Akainu so why not here.

Those Marines were fodder, are you really taking seriously the comments of a bunch of fodders? OP LOVES to put fodder talking bs. Who said WB its stupid? It doesn't have to do with stupidness, but tat he wasn't at his peak, more like pretty weak and sick in comparison to what he used to be. I tried to show you but you keep ignoring the facts i've shown you.

What proof do you have to say he used Haki on Akainu, i've said already 3 times he didn't show Haki in the entire arc.

I didn´t say he is slow, but he doesn´t move at lightspeed, in your video you see the reaction from drake how he is surprised that kizaru vanished, if kizaru was truly moving at lightspeed then in the moment he disappeared he would have kicked Drake and we wouldn´t even have seen drakes reaction.

The gap between from where he was standing to where he landed... THAT'S what i want you to see...

Im not saying Kizaru kicks at lightspeed, im not saying he punches at lightspeed, im not saying he can react at lightspeed... Im just saying, while he uses Yata no Kagami, he can MOVE at lightspeed.

The instance in slow mo, is just to show people how fast he moved from a place to another that Drake didn't even have time to notice Kizaru disappearing. Once he reappears, he can't move at lightspeed because he's not using Yata anymore, however, the movement he did from a place to another was indeed lightspeed.

Because there has to be an explanation why Akainu didn´t get hurt by Marco/Vista haki imbued attack, so most likely his Busoshoku is stronger than theirs.

So because you're looking for an explanation, we're just going to make an assumption that doesn't even make sense? C'mon mate, that's not how we roll.

Im want you to do some retrospective work... Look at the instance again, and see if Akainu blocked the attack, or just "reformed" around the attack how Aokiji did. If he blocked it, it was due to Armament of Colors.

Online
#41 Edited by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@ratava

if he wasnt using haki then comment from the pirates would make no sense, i don´t believe that WB is so stupid and just attacking a Logia with a useless stab. He used it against Akainu so why not here.

Those Marines were fodder, are you really taking seriously the comments of a bunch of fodders? OP LOVES to put fodder talking bs. Who said WB its stupid? It doesn't have to do with stupidness, but tat he wasn't at his peak, more like pretty weak and sick in comparison to what he used to be. I tried to show you but you keep ignoring the facts i've shown you.

What proof do you have to say he used Haki on Akainu, i've said already 3 times he didn't show Haki in the entire arc.

I didn´t say he is slow, but he doesn´t move at lightspeed, in your video you see the reaction from drake how he is surprised that kizaru vanished, if kizaru was truly moving at lightspeed then in the moment he disappeared he would have kicked Drake and we wouldn´t even have seen drakes reaction.

The gap between from where he was standing to where he landed... THAT'S what i want you to see...

Im not saying Kizaru kicks at lightspeed, im not saying he punches at lightspeed, im not saying he can react at lightspeed... Im just saying, while he uses Yata no Kagami, he can MOVE at lightspeed.

The instance in slow mo, is just to show people how fast he moved from a place to another that Drake didn't even have time to notice Kizaru disappearing. Once he reappears, he can't move at lightspeed because he's not using Yata anymore, however, the movement he did from a place to another was indeed lightspeed.

Because there has to be an explanation why Akainu didn´t get hurt by Marco/Vista haki imbued attack, so most likely his Busoshoku is stronger than theirs.

So because you're looking for an explanation, we're just going to make an assumption that doesn't even make sense? C'mon mate, that's not how we roll.

Im want you to do some retrospective work... Look at the instance again, and see if Akainu blocked the attack, or just "reformed" around the attack how Aokiji did. If he blocked it, it was due to Armament of Colors.

because without haki he coudn´t have touched/dealt damage to akainu and theres no superior element involved so he used haki.

you see Drake shrug after Kizaru disappears, he wouldn´t have time for that at lightspeed movement from kizaru and even with the yata mirror he doesn´t move at lightspeed because you still see Apoo moving in that short timeframe.

Marco/Vista sliced Akainus Elemental form with their haki-attacks but he just reforms without receiving damage. So his Buso must be > than theirs

#42 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

because without haki he coudn´t have touched/dealt damage to akainu and theres no superior element involved so he used haki.

Wrong, Law managed to harm/affect Smoker while using a paramecia fruit. Not an element at all. Same as Jinbe with the Gyojin Karate against Ace and Luffy, which uses the water inside the body to harm the foe. There are a few more instance where the superior element wasn't used.

you see Drake shrug after Kizaru disappears, he wouldn´t have time for that at lightspeed movement from kizaru and even with the yata mirror he doesn´t move at lightspeed because you still see Apoo moving in that short timeframe.

Of course he will notice something. He was looking at someone shining, then disappears like a flash. But that doesn't take out Kizaru literally teleports instantly next to him, he didn't even react to Kizaru next to him but the Flash that disappeared... Really, this is turning awfully repetitive. You just don't get what im trying to prove.

Again with the beat boxer... Look man... I want you to read carefully what im going to ask you.

How much time did it take Kizaru to get next to him after he blinked from the ground?

That's the movement i want you to take as lightspeed. Not the Yata no Kagami, not the kicks...

Marco/Vista sliced Akainus Elemental form with their haki-attacks but he just reforms without receiving damage. So his Buso must be > than theirs

I'll ask again, how does Armament of Colors augments the intangibility?... That doesn't even make sense since Armament of Colors turns your body harder, not more blobby...

Online
#43 Edited by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

because without haki he coudn´t have touched/dealt damage to akainu and theres no superior element involved so he used haki.

Wrong, Law managed to harm/affect Smoker while using a paramecia fruit. Not an element at all. Same as Jinbe with the Gyojin Karate against Ace and Luffy, which uses the water inside the body to harm the foe. There are a few more instance where the superior element wasn't used.

you see Drake shrug after Kizaru disappears, he wouldn´t have time for that at lightspeed movement from kizaru and even with the yata mirror he doesn´t move at lightspeed because you still see Apoo moving in that short timeframe.

Of course he will notice something. He was looking at someone shining, then disappears like a flash. But that doesn't take out Kizaru literally teleports instantly next to him, he didn't even react to Kizaru next to him but the Flash that disappeared... Really, this is turning awfully repetitive. You just don't get what im trying to prove.

Again with the beat boxer... Look man... I want you to read carefully what im going to ask you.

How much time did it take Kizaru to get next to him after he blinked from the ground?

That's the movement i want you to take as lightspeed. Not the Yata no Kagami, not the kicks...

Marco/Vista sliced Akainus Elemental form with their haki-attacks but he just reforms without receiving damage. So his Buso must be > than theirs

I'll ask again, how does Armament of Colors augments the intangibility?... That doesn't even make sense since Armament of Colors turns your body harder, not more blobby...

and who said that he wasn´t using haki? hes fighting a logia and is capable of using haki so he most likely did use it. When did he use Gyjojin Karate against Logia Ace? What we know from the manga

  1. Haki
  2. superior Element
  3. "sneak attack"
  4. seastone
  5. sea

helps against Logia (did i forget something?). Fishman Karate against a Logia doesnt make much sense in the first place because there is no water to exploit if they are in their elemental forms and without haki you cant bypass their elemental "intang".

i understand what you are saying, but it is still a usless technique against stronger enemies, because its dumb to first slowly build the path and then travel it with highspeed. The lightpath is easy to follow so you can estimate the place of arrival, Apoo was caught by surprise while running away (not saying he could react to it if he followed the path :) )

Then why couldn´t they hurt Akainu with their Haki-attacks?.

#44 Edited by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

and who said that he wasn´t using haki? hes fighting a logia and is capable of using haki so he most likely did use it. When did he use Gyjojin Karate against Logia Ace?

Jinbe hasn't shown Haki, not even once. Again, that's just an assumption, and judging by how he described the way he hurts Luffy, its more likely he doesn't use Haki. Harming Luffy with Haki it's as easy as harming Logias with Haki.

Just to let you know... Haki is something REALLY rare. You need to awake it, and not everybody does, citing Rayleigh actually.

Fishman Karate against a Logia doesnt make much sense in the first place because there is no water to exploit if they are in their elemental forms and without haki you cant bypass their elemental "intang".

Crocodile bled when he was hit by Jozu, that means he has water. Same as Aokiji... They have a normal body, the fact they are impervious to normal physical attacks overall is something else.

then travel it with highspeed. The lightpath is easy to follow so you can estimate the place of arrival, Apoo was caught by surprise while running away (not saying he could react to it if he followed the path

So you conceded on the fact he actually moves at such speed, now we're arguing if Kizaru's techinque is useful or not. I can fairly say he only used it to make contact with foes that were significantly far. In close combat he prefers to use a light sword, and use kicks.

If he was quite far from his foe, the technique would be as useful as it is supposed to be.

Then why couldn´t they hurt Akainu with their Haki-attacks?.

It harmed him, he actually ranted about Haki users. But the fact it didn't affect him that much was because their Haki was too weak. Probably was that given the fact they were all beaten up.

That being said, i hope you know there are levels of Haki, if people is too strong with their devil fruit, you need a stronger Haki to counter it... It's not simply by having Haki awakened... You still need to train it.

Here Smoker tells Tashigi her Haki is still too weak to face Law's Devil Fruit, who happens to be so damn skilled with it he became Sichibukai, raised his bounty over 450,000,000 Berri and was soloing Smoker's crew like nothing. Let alone his island sized feats in Dressrosa story arc.

We also have Law facing Vergo, who happened to have one of the strongest Armament of Colors ever seen in OP, he even got the nickname of "Demon Bamboo" because of his Armament of Colors, that turned a bamboo stick into a overpowered weapon.

His Haki is so powerful he can turn his whole body into something harder than iron, with DF neutralizing attributes. On top of that, he was strong enough to be protected to Law's Room. Nuff said.

However, Law trained WAY too much with his DF that he actually ended up owning him without much trouble after he recovered his heart.

Really, he even cut through the whole building.

In conclusion, you can train both your Haki and your DF. If the DF is WAY too strong for the Haki, it will overpower it, and viceversa.

Online
#45 Posted by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava

and who said that he wasn´t using haki? hes fighting a logia and is capable of using haki so he most likely did use it. When did he use Gyjojin Karate against Logia Ace?

Jinbe hasn't shown Haki, not even once. Again, that's just an assumption, and judging by how he described the way he hurts Luffy, its more likely he doesn't use Haki. Harming Luffy with Haki it's as easy as harming Logias with Haki.

Just to let you know... Haki is something REALLY rare. You need to awake it, and not everybody does, citing Rayleigh actually.

Fishman Karate against a Logia doesnt make much sense in the first place because there is no water to exploit if they are in their elemental forms and without haki you cant bypass their elemental "intang".

Crocodile bled when he was hit by Jozu, that means he has water. Same as Aokiji... They have a normal body, the fact they are impervious to normal physical attacks overall is something else.

then travel it with highspeed. The lightpath is easy to follow so you can estimate the place of arrival, Apoo was caught by surprise while running away (not saying he could react to it if he followed the path

So you conceded on the fact he actually moves at such speed, now we're arguing if Kizaru's techinque is useful or not. I can fairly say he only used it to make contact with foes that were significantly far. In close combat he prefers to use a light sword, and use kicks.

If he was quite far from his foe, the technique would be as useful as it is supposed to be.

Then why couldn´t they hurt Akainu with their Haki-attacks?.

It harmed him, he actually ranted about Haki users. But the fact it didn't affect him that much was because their Haki were too weak. Probably was that given the fact they were all beaten up.

That being said, i hope you know there are levels of Haki, if people is too strong with their devil fruit, you need a stronger Haki to counter it... It's not simply by having Haki awakened... You still need to train it.

Here Smoker tells Tashigi her Haki is still too weak to face Law's Devil Fruit, who happens to be so damn skilled with it he became Sichibukai, raised his bounty over 450,000,000 Berri and was soloing Smoker's crew like nothing. Let alone his island sized feats in Dressrosa story arc.

We also have Law facing Vergo, who happened to have one of the strongest Armament of Colors ever seen in OP, he even got the nickname of "Demon Bamboo" because of his Armament of Colors, that turned a bamboo stick into a overpowered weapon.

His Haki is so powerful he can turn his whole body into something harder than iron, with DF neutralizing attributes. On top of that, he was strong enough to be protected to Law's Room. Nuff said.

However, Law trained WAY too much with his DF that he actually ended up owning him without much trouble after he recovered his heart.

Really, he even cut through the whole building.

In conclusion, you can train both your Haki and your DF. If the DF is WAY too strong for the Haki, it will overpower it, and viceversa.

i was talking about law using haki against smoker, sorry.

Crocodile bleed because Jozu was using haki, so he bypassed the Logias elemental form and hit Crocs physical body. If Jimbei would use his Fishman Karate e.g. against Croc without utilizing Haki nothing would happen, because he would only hit Crocs sandform and there is no water to exploit. The same with all other logia, in there elemental form there is no water Jimbei could exploit for his technique.

#46 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

i was talking about law using haki against smoker, sorry.

Crocodile bleed because Jozu was using haki, so he bypassed the Logias elemental form and hit Crocs physical body. If Jimbei would use his Fishman Karate e.g. against Croc without utilizing Haki nothing would happen, because he would only hit Crocs sandform and there is no water to exploit. The same with all other logia, in there elemental form there is no water Jimbei could exploit for his technique.

i was talking about law using haki against smoker, sorry.

I don't know if this is sarcasm.. :o

Crocodile bleed because Jozu was using haki, so he bypassed the Logias elemental form and hit Crocs physical body.

You are getting Logias elemental form the wrong way. Logias DO have a normal body, that's why people like Akainu, Kizaru, Smoker, Acea dn Crocodile can grab solid objects and bleed. The fact that they can reconstruct their bodies and being pretty much immune to normal physical attacks its just activated when they are "harmed". Even Caesar was bleeding when hit, proving he actually posses blood even in gas form.

If Jimbei would use his Fishman Karate e.g. against Croc without utilizing Haki nothing would happen, because he would only hit Crocs sandform and there is no water to exploit.

They bleed, they need to eat, they get thirsty, the cry, the have saliva, they sweat... They have water all over the place.

The same with all other logia, in there elemental form there is no water Jimbei could exploit for his technique.

Yes there is, and it's explained above.

Online
#47 Edited by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

i was talking about law using haki against smoker, sorry.

Crocodile bleed because Jozu was using haki, so he bypassed the Logias elemental form and hit Crocs physical body. If Jimbei would use his Fishman Karate e.g. against Croc without utilizing Haki nothing would happen, because he would only hit Crocs sandform and there is no water to exploit. The same with all other logia, in there elemental form there is no water Jimbei could exploit for his technique.

i was talking about law using haki against smoker, sorry.

I don't know if this is sarcasm.. :o

Crocodile bleed because Jozu was using haki, so he bypassed the Logias elemental form and hit Crocs physical body.

You are getting Logias elemental form the wrong way. Logias DO have a normal body, that's why people like Akainu, Kizaru, Smoker, Acea dn Crocodile can grab solid objects and bleed. The fact that they can reconstruct their bodies and being pretty much immune to normal physical attacks its just activated when they are "harmed". Even Caesar was bleeding when hit, proving he actually posses blood even in gas form.

If Jimbei would use his Fishman Karate e.g. against Croc without utilizing Haki nothing would happen, because he would only hit Crocs sandform and there is no water to exploit.

They bleed, they need to eat, they get thirsty, the cry, the have saliva, they sweat... They have water all over the place.

The same with all other logia, in there elemental form there is no water Jimbei could exploit for his technique.

Yes there is, and it's explained above.

No i am not buying that. Fishman Karate would be absolute useless against any Logia, it is said that you need Haki to harm a Logias physical body, without it there is only the elemental form. So without Haki, Jimbei would just hit a mass of sand/light/ice/magma/swamp etc, or do you believe that Jimbei could do something with his karate against Kizaru when he is just standing there in his light form. I doubt that.

#48 Posted by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: That's the point, Kizaru doesn't have a light form... Akainu doesn't have a magma form... Aokiji doesn't have an ice form... That's just how their bodies work they are impervious to normal attacks yet they bleed when attacked with Haki. Even Aokiji disassembled into ice when hit by Jozu yet he bled...

The fact they have elemental properties like "intangibility" doesn't take out they actually have water, they are living beings!

Online
#49 Edited by Ratava (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@ratava: That's the point, Kizaru doesn't have a light form... Akainu doesn't have a magma form... Aokiji doesn't have an ice form... That's just how their bodies work they are impervious to normal attacks yet they bleed when attacked with Haki. Even Aokiji disassembled into ice when hit by Jozu yet he bled...

The fact they have elemental properties like "intangibility" doesn't take out they actually have water, they are living beings!

yes they are living beings and of course they bleed if you hit them with a haki attack, but thats due to haki-attacks damaging their physical body. If you damage the elemental form they receive no dmg at all, as you said that is why Aokiji could simply reform. Without that your attacks simply slip through them as seen e.g in the fight Luffy vs Croc

#50 Edited by GhostRavage (9431 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: Jinbe hasn't shown any visible Haki yet. So let's agree to disagree in that part, not to mention is utterly inconsequential to the fight.

Online