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#1 Posted by SavageBeast (334 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-New 52 Black Adam. Picture version of Omni-Man

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
- Location ; Metropolis. 
- No prep. 
- Winner by Death or K.O. 
- Both start 100 ft. away. 
- Morals are off. 
Who wins this? 
#2 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

my boy black adam easy

#3 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

It's difficult to measure the strength and speed of Viltrumites and Omni Man doesn't have real "high end" feats other than against his own kind, so I would go with BA.

#4 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam stomps.

#5 Posted by NeonGameWave (9039 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam slaughters Omni-Man.

#6 Posted by Bo88gdan (4647 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam FTw

#7 Edited by Rouflex (20078 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam does the winning dance.

#8 Posted by solon (421 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam stomps.

#9 Posted by AllStarSuperman (22973 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam

#10 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@knivestrillions: @jeanroygrant: @bo88gdan: @rouflex: @solon: New 52 Black Adam got destroyed by Ultraman. Hes a jobber now.

Hardcore Jobber....

It's difficult to measure the strength and speed of Viltrumites and Omni Man doesn't have real "high end" feats other than against his own kind, so I would go with BA.

We have Quantifiable feats and on Panel feats to compare to Black Adam. IMO Black Adam feats do not compare.

Omni Man is FTL in Travel speed and Fast enough to battle around the world at Massively Hypersonic Speeds in combat Speed and reaction Speed.

Speed

Invincible has Bio stated Mach 10+ speed in Atmosphere and is Light Speed in Space. He does show Reaction Speed to match as well fights at that speed in certain times.

1-2) Flies from Upper North America to Antarctica in 39 seconds.

3) Flies with Shuttle to Mars and then disappears from human sight.

4) Explains how he has to hold back on his speed to keep from hurting people. Even fast Street Levels never have a chance to touch him.

5) Pack his room and flies it all to his dorm in a few trips in less than a minuet.

6) Invincible fights Conquest at such speeds that they can only be tracked by Satellite Feeds slowed down, even then they are always 5 minuets behind each fight! Speed Blitz ftw.

7-8) Omni Man and Invincible throw a Baseball around the world, so it is traveling at major Hyper Sonic Speeds. Invincible easily reacts to catch it. Even so far as to fly back up to catch it when he forgot about it.

9) Omni Man leaves from America to another Country, scopes the deal, then returns to grab Invincible. Then before the Hotdog can fall they are the another country.

10) Invincible moves faster than Instant Teleportation can keep up with.

We also know officially from Bios that Viltrumites are FTL in travel speed.

1-4) Omni Man Bio states FTL speeds and he proves it by searching the galaxy for another habitual planet to conquer while flying through Space. He can only hold his breath for 2 weeks. Massively FTL.

5-6) Omni Man, Kid Omni Man, and Invincible within less than a hour of the battle on the Coalition of Planets main world had flown from one world in another Solar System to there. That is FTL by alot.

7-8) Viltrumites within one week time frame traveled across the Galaxy to find the planet Omni Man was hiding on after beating on Allen for info. Seems FTL to me lol.

All this is Invincible who merely matches Omni Man.

Here Invincible barely can fight back or keep up with Omni Man who was forced to battle all 3 Viltrumites. Invincible is much stronger, but thats the speed we are talking about here.

You want to see REAL SPEED BLITZING, then check this out.

Omni Man vs Guardians of the Globe. They were no joke, and Omni Man Speed Blitz them all. This includes the red Blur who can move so fast, that he ran around Russia while seeming to stand completely still to his Girlfriend! Omni Man Speed blitzes Red Blur and the rest at the same time!

How fast is Black Adam? Mach 500 MAX! That is not even 1/10th Speed of light!

What about Strength? What about it. Omni Man is considered equals (Only in the past issue of Invincible had his son become equal to him) to his Son invincible.

Strength

Invincible does indeed have major Super Strength.

1-2) Benches 400 tons with little problem.

3) Fissures the planet to stop a army in its tracks.

4-5) Remakes the landscape with his fight vs Conquest.

6-7) Lifts what can be calculated close to 500-600 tons of stone.

8) Pulps a Super Human Durable Angstrom.

9) Thunder Claps Sequids away.

10) Easily rips apart Doctor Octopus arms apart in a official Marvel Team Up title. Last time I check his arms were Carbonadium or Secondary Adamantium. Clarification may be needed for that.

Other feats note worthy have context to them like comparing Conquest strength who Invincible surpasses in the end.

Conquest, a Viltrumite, was encased in 400 ton Steel Prison. It was design to implode if he tried to break out as well. With a flex of his muscles, he breaks free and laughs of the Implosion.

Invincible, Thaddeus, and Omni Man destroy the Viltrumite home world. They however needed the Space Riders Godly Powerful Laser to destabilize the core enough to allow them to fly through the planet before it explodes which may have killed them. Thing to note is Omni Man is the strongest of the three there with Invincible being close second. Thaddeus is the weakest one and very inferior to stats of Mark or his father as we see in the Thragg fight.

These feats are far more impressive than Black Adam's feats in damage output. Just because Black Adam can fight Superman, does not mean he is equal, especially when Superman holds back. Supes also happens to have a weakness to magic! Black Adam was just recently DECIMATED by Ultraman who I bet Superman will handle with ease.

Omni Man Durability is not too shabby when you considered the Viltrumite durability.

Durability

Invincible has a Healing Factor, not as fast as Wolverines or Hulks, but fast enough to heal a severed spine and hole in stomach in months. This also seems to keep him from dying right away from instant kill injuries.

1) Tanks a human size bomb with little effort in his weakest incarnation.

2-5) Invincible coughs off a Thermal Bomb attack that evaporates Las Vegas and glasses the desert.

6) Invincible tanks a dimensional blast that ashes a small army of Mauler Twins, each with super Human Durability in the 20 ton range.

7) Jokes off Furnace attacks, who has the body of Magma.

8) Ignores high power lasers.

9-11) Invincible shrugs of a Nuke exploding in his face. Next panel he flies back to earth to finish of the Mauler Twins.

12-14) Laughs off this severe attack from another Viltrumite warrior.

All this is Viltrumite Durability and we seen Omni Man handle a thrashing from Thragg better than his son did.

Thragg then proceeds to beat down both Omni Man and Invincible to near death.

Thraggs last fight was him again easily beating down Omni Man. Who put up a better fight than Invincible did in the previous fight. even manages to save his wife.

#11 Posted by logy5000 (6144 posts) - - Show Bio

Omni-Man........ loses badly.

#12 Posted by RetconCrisis (4535 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah no. This keeps happening, strength wise Omni-Man is not on par.

The best quantifiable strength showings for Invincible characters are in the hundreds of tons. That is nothing.

#14 Posted by DeathandGrim (2087 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles: y'know If we weren't comic book nerds this would be my reaction to someone lifting 100 tons

but since we are...

#15 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Disagree. Base on feats of both parties, and the fact New 52 Black Adam seems inferior.

@retconcrisis said:

@allstarsuperman said:

Black Adam

@solon said:

Black Adam stomps.

@rouflex said:

Black Adam does the winning dance.

@bo88gdan said:

Black Adam FTw

@neongamewave said:

Black Adam slaughters Omni-Man.

@jeanroygrant said:

Black Adam stomps.

@knivestrillions said:

my boy black adam easy

General consensus has spoken!

General Consensus aloowed Hitler to take power. Mass majority are not always right.

@man_of_miracles said:

Yeah no. This keeps happening, strength wise Omni-Man is not on par.

The best quantifiable strength showings for Invincible characters are in the hundreds of tons. That is nothing.

Thats funny when I just posted the feats in the 100,000s of tons >_>

#16 Posted by AllStarSuperman (22973 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Disagree. Base on feats of both parties, and the fact New 52 Black Adam seems inferior.

The OP states Pre-New 52

#17 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Disagree. Base on feats of both parties, and the fact New 52 Black Adam seems inferior.

@retconcrisis said:

@allstarsuperman said:

Black Adam

@solon said:

Black Adam stomps.

@rouflex said:

Black Adam does the winning dance.

@bo88gdan said:

Black Adam FTw

@neongamewave said:

Black Adam slaughters Omni-Man.

@jeanroygrant said:

Black Adam stomps.

@knivestrillions said:

my boy black adam easy

General consensus has spoken!

General Consensus aloowed Hitler to take power. Mass majority are not always right.

@man_of_miracles said:

Yeah no. This keeps happening, strength wise Omni-Man is not on par.

The best quantifiable strength showings for Invincible characters are in the hundreds of tons. That is nothing.

Thats funny when I just posted the feats in the 100,000s of tons >_>

Ultraman can move the Moon, and it takes that much force to crush Black Adam's jaw, something Omni-Man is not strong enough to exert that much grip.

#18 Posted by Fallschirmjager (18949 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by solon (421 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by RetconCrisis (4535 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Pre-52. New 52 would be owned. New 52 BA was beat by Ultraman quite easily.

#21 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@retconcrisis said:

@cadencev2: Pre-52. New 52 would be owned. New 52 BA was beat by Ultraman quite easily.

@solon said:

@cadencev2:

But OP states Pre-New 52
@fallschirmjager said:

@cadencev2: read the OP dude.

@savagebeast said:

Pre-New 52 Black Adam. Picture version of Omni-Man

@allstarsuperman said:
@cadencev2 said:

@allstarsuperman: Disagree. Base on feats of both parties, and the fact New 52 Black Adam seems inferior.

The OP states Pre-New 52

Ah. I see. I hate looking at the word (Insert Anything) New 52 cause all that I register is the word New 52.

I still stand by assessment however. The Damage Output, Damage Soak, and Speed od Omni Man should win in a much harder fight.

Big Difference for me is Skill and Experience as well. Omni Man has been killing civilizations and super beings for 1000s of years.

Omni Mans Story.

He was trained and bred for Galaxy conquest. Black Adam is a very simple Brawler where Omni Man goes for Neck Breaks, Dismemberment, Organ Punches, ect....

#22 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Ok lets go over this again.

You are using a lot of ABC logic on strength, durability etc. But that is fine. But I will allow myself to do so to keep the playing field even.

1. I don't see any feats in the 100,000 ton range, if you could post just those feats that would be cool. Only because I may have missed them among the other scans.

2. Even if Omni Man can fight on par with people who are in the 100,000 ton range it means nothing. Black Adam has freaking manhandled people who can move literally trillions of tons. That is a different level completely.

#23 Edited by Fallschirmjager (18949 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles: At one point a female viltrumite pushes a large cruise ship that was broken down in the middle of the ocean ocean to the shore

that would put them in the 100,000 ton range.

But nothing I remember shows them anything close to 1mil.

#24 Posted by dondave (38893 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how Black Adam losing to Ultraman makes him a jobber. Ultraman moved the moon, Omni-Man would be taken out just as easily.

#25 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager said:

@man_of_miracles: At one point a female viltrumite pushes a large cruise ship that was broken down in the middle of the ocean ocean to the shore

that would put them in the 100,000 ton range.

But nothing I remember shows them anything close to 1mil.

Not really I can push a several thousand pound boat away from a dock with my foot.

Doesn't mean I can lift it.

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager said:

@man_of_miracles: At one point a female viltrumite pushes a large cruise ship that was broken down in the middle of the ocean ocean to the shore

that would put them in the 100,000 ton range.

But nothing I remember shows them anything close to 1mil.

Not really I can push a several thousand pound boat away from a dock with my foot.

Doesn't mean I can lift it.

The ship feat is impressive as it was sinking, meaning they had to hold the Ships weight and the water it took on, and both Invincible and the Viltrumite adult were force to move it a few miles. The Adult carried most of the weight and was not remotely winded. This was also before Invincible gotten stronger.

Invincible on this site is said to be weaker than say Wonder Woman or Black Adam. I say this is false. Some examples of this strength.

1-2) Benches 400 tons with little problem.

3) Fissures the planet to stop a army in its tracks.

4-5) Lifts what can be calculated close to 500-600 tons of stone.

6) Pulps a Super Human Durable Angstrom.

7) Thunder Claps Sequids away.

8) Easily rips apart Doctor Octopus arms apart in a official Marvel Team Up title. Last time I check his arms were Carbonadium or Secondary Adamantium. Clarification may be needed for that.

Most of this is Early Invincible or his weaker feats. Like the Bench Pressing 400 tons. He can Bench 400 tons comfortably, yet he has the strength of Multi Thousand Ton damage way after this. Omni Man told his son that with age he will become stronger and by working out he will get way stronger. This shows.

1-2) Invincible has flatten mountains and crated his own Grand Canyons with his strength.

3-4) A weaker earlier Invincible and one other weaker Viltrumite lifted and pushed, and held up from sinking, a Large Cruise Liner 3 miles straight. That is 100,00+ tons of weight without passengers. With people, luggage, crew, and taking on water (Flooding) its more 250,000 tons.

5) Again a weaker and less experience Invincible slams Allen with enough force to crater and dust a good size portion of the Moon.

6-7) Invincible hits with such force that the shock wave sends flying Construction Workers and all the heavy steel, concrete, ect debris.

All this are Super Man worthy feats in the 100,000s of ton range to pull off. These are insane showings of strength that is way over 400 tons. One more set of showing of strength is feats from the likes of Conquest and Omni Man. Both super strong Viltrumites that Invincible is equal to.

1-3) Conquest is encased in 400 tons of steel. Unable to move. Added to this is a Implosion device if he moves. Conquest not only smashes out of this with a flex of his muscles, he does so easy. Now most take this as a 400 ton feat. This is steel which has 35,000 pounds per square inch! To break out of 400 ton block of steel by flexing your muscles is a worthy 100,000+ ton feat.

4-5) Omni Man punches Invincible through 2 Skyscraper, and this was holding back his punch. Clearly above 400 tons of force by a huge margin.

The point I want to get across is many people think Invincible is a 400 toner because he was stated to have started working out at 400 tons. He has by feats and statements gotten way stronger.

So with that said is Invincible comparable to say Wonder Woman who feats of strength consist this?

I say yes, and then some. So with that said I think it is fairly a sure thing Invincible can indeed match Black Adam whose best strength feats is brawling with Superman who holds back and is weak to Magic.

@dondave said:

I don't see how Black Adam losing to Ultraman makes him a jobber. Ultraman moved the moon, Omni-Man would be taken out just as easily.

Superman can do the same. i am sure the Invicible crew can easy too. Early Marck cause enough damage to the moon over 1/20th of its surface when he was super weak. Then 3 Viltrumites plowed through a planet with Omni Man being the strongest of the 3.

Invincible, Thaddeus, and Omni Man destroy the Viltrumite home world. They however needed the Space Riders Godly Powerful Laser to destabilize the core enough to allow them to fly through the planet before it explodes which may have killed them. Thing to note is Omni Man is the strongest of the three there with Invincible being close second. Thaddeus is the weakest one and very inferior to stats of Mark or his father as we see in the Thragg fight.

Also no one has stated why Black Adam wins this when Omni man is cleary more skilled, better trained, goes for realistic damaging shots on humanoid bodies, and is just as fast if not faster.

Omni Man wins in a good fight.

#27 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13122 posts) - - Show Bio

It's definitely a good fight, I'm still not convinced that Omni-Man has enough strength/durability to take on Black Adam though...

#28 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

It's definitely a good fight, I'm still not convinced that Omni-Man has enough strength/durability to take on Black Adam though...

Well, either way it should be a good fight.

#29 Posted by Black_Arrow (3961 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I dont think that Omni Man is stronger than Mark, Probably they are equal or Mark is a little stronger

#30 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13122 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow: I'm following the trades so I'm behind in the issues, but I'm pretty sure one scan I glanced at in one of the most recent issues displayed Nolan beating Mark in arm wrestling. Even during the Viltrumite War, Omni Man had to pull on Invincible so he matched speeds with everyone else.

#31 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I dont think that Omni Man is stronger than Mark, Probably they are equal or Mark is a little stronger

Actually Mark was considered weaker to Omni Man until only very recently in a arm wrestling match, and in the match it seem they are mere equals now. However Omni Man fared way better than Mark ever did against Thragg which is a key showing IMO. Omni Man also stated in the Viltrumite War that Mark may get stronger than himself, which suggest Mark was not there yet.

#32 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight. I think Omni Man can pull a victory or two out but BA takes majority. On the other hand Thragg or Allen would pummel BA.

Online
#33 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@man_of_miracles: At one point a female viltrumite pushes a large cruise ship that was broken down in the middle of the ocean ocean to the shore

that would put them in the 100,000 ton range.

But nothing I remember shows them anything close to 1mil.

Not really I can push a several thousand pound boat away from a dock with my foot.

Doesn't mean I can lift it.

The ship feat is impressive as it was sinking, meaning they had to hold the Ships weight and the water it took on, and both Invincible and the Viltrumite adult were force to move it a few miles. The Adult carried most of the weight and was not remotely winded. This was also before Invincible gotten stronger.

Invincible on this site is said to be weaker than say Wonder Woman or Black Adam. I say this is false. Some examples of this strength.

1-2) Benches 400 tons with little problem.

3) Fissures the planet to stop a army in its tracks.

4-5) Lifts what can be calculated close to 500-600 tons of stone.

6) Pulps a Super Human Durable Angstrom.

7) Thunder Claps Sequids away.

8) Easily rips apart Doctor Octopus arms apart in a official Marvel Team Up title. Last time I check his arms were Carbonadium or Secondary Adamantium. Clarification may be needed for that.

Most of this is Early Invincible or his weaker feats. Like the Bench Pressing 400 tons. He can Bench 400 tons comfortably, yet he has the strength of Multi Thousand Ton damage way after this. Omni Man told his son that with age he will become stronger and by working out he will get way stronger. This shows.

1-2) Invincible has flatten mountains and crated his own Grand Canyons with his strength.

3-4) A weaker earlier Invincible and one other weaker Viltrumite lifted and pushed, and held up from sinking, a Large Cruise Liner 3 miles straight. That is 100,00+ tons of weight without passengers. With people, luggage, crew, and taking on water (Flooding) its more 250,000 tons.

5) Again a weaker and less experience Invincible slams Allen with enough force to crater and dust a good size portion of the Moon.

6-7) Invincible hits with such force that the shock wave sends flying Construction Workers and all the heavy steel, concrete, ect debris.

All this are Super Man worthy feats in the 100,000s of ton range to pull off. These are insane showings of strength that is way over 400 tons. One more set of showing of strength is feats from the likes of Conquest and Omni Man. Both super strong Viltrumites that Invincible is equal to.

1-3) Conquest is encased in 400 tons of steel. Unable to move. Added to this is a Implosion device if he moves. Conquest not only smashes out of this with a flex of his muscles, he does so easy. Now most take this as a 400 ton feat. This is steel which has 35,000 pounds per square inch! To break out of 400 ton block of steel by flexing your muscles is a worthy 100,000+ ton feat.

4-5) Omni Man punches Invincible through 2 Skyscraper, and this was holding back his punch. Clearly above 400 tons of force by a huge margin.

The point I want to get across is many people think Invincible is a 400 toner because he was stated to have started working out at 400 tons. He has by feats and statements gotten way stronger.

So with that said is Invincible comparable to say Wonder Woman who feats of strength consist this?

I say yes, and then some. So with that said I think it is fairly a sure thing Invincible can indeed match Black Adam whose best strength feats is brawling with Superman who holds back and is weak to Magic.

@dondave said:

I don't see how Black Adam losing to Ultraman makes him a jobber. Ultraman moved the moon, Omni-Man would be taken out just as easily.

Superman can do the same. i am sure the Invicible crew can easy too. Early Marck cause enough damage to the moon over 1/20th of its surface when he was super weak. Then 3 Viltrumites plowed through a planet with Omni Man being the strongest of the 3.

Invincible, Thaddeus, and Omni Man destroy the Viltrumite home world. They however needed the Space Riders Godly Powerful Laser to destabilize the core enough to allow them to fly through the planet before it explodes which may have killed them. Thing to note is Omni Man is the strongest of the three there with Invincible being close second. Thaddeus is the weakest one and very inferior to stats of Mark or his father as we see in the Thragg fight.

Also no one has stated why Black Adam wins this when Omni man is cleary more skilled, better trained, goes for realistic damaging shots on humanoid bodies, and is just as fast if not faster.

Omni Man wins in a good fight.

Lol are you serious?? You want to low ball that badly?

How about this champ?

Even if she is pulling 1/100 of the Earth (probably closer to 1/5-1/3) she would still be moving 5.972*10^22 kilograms which makes all strength feats from Invincible look like a joke.

#34 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles said:

Lol are you serious?? You want to low ball that badly?

How about this champ?

Even if she is pulling 1/100 of the Earth (probably closer to 1/5-1/3) she would still be moving 5.972*10^22 kilograms which makes all strength feats from Invincible look like a joke.

I did not lowball anything. Your pick is a picture of the Planet that was not really moved at all with all 3 Pulling it.

  1. It is heavily Argued that Superman and Martian Manhunter are vastly superior to Wonder Woman who also only was there for the Lasso.
  2. Add to that They failed to move the planet, Kyle did it. So she really failed to do anything.
  3. Also do planets have Weight in "Weightless" space? Can you show me the quantifiable science to this? I bet you can't.

Not a very good counter by using a out of context high showing with so many flaws in it.

#35 Edited by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep, it take that much force to crush Black Adam's jaw.

#36 Posted by Black_Arrow (3961 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep, it take that much force to crush Black Adam's jaw.

I am the only one that considers that image retarded. Why the hell Ultraman moved the moon If it is going to keep moving

#37 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

These feats are far more impressive than Black Adam's feats in damage output. Just because Black Adam can fight Superman, does not mean he is equal, especially when Superman holds back. Supes also happens to have a weakness to magic! Black Adam was just recently DECIMATED by Ultraman who I bet Superman will handle with ease.

This is misconception, Superman does not have weakness to magic, he just don't have special resistance in it. Magic that can affect human will affect Superman to the same magnitude. By the way, neither Omni-Man or Invincible have resistance to magic, and they will take the full effect of magical lighting or punch.

#38 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks said:

@cadencev2 said:

These feats are far more impressive than Black Adam's feats in damage output. Just because Black Adam can fight Superman, does not mean he is equal, especially when Superman holds back. Supes also happens to have a weakness to magic! Black Adam was just recently DECIMATED by Ultraman who I bet Superman will handle with ease.

This is misconception, Superman does not have weakness to magic, he just don't have special resistance in it. Magic that can affect human will affect Superman to the same magnitude. By the way, neither Omni-Man or Invincible have resistance to magic, and they will take the full effect of magical lighting or punch.

That is the point though. What makes Supes so tough is his Invulnerability. Taking that away is a weakness when he relies on it like a crutch against 90% of his foes.

Also moving the moon is not all that impressive when the science behind is not specified or tested. It could be easy to rig a 100 rockets and move the moon out of the rotation a bit. How about something more quantifiable?

In fact how is moving a moon a strength feat? He is not lifting, striking, or anything! He is flying.... thats it. His FTL flying is the force moving the moon, not Strength in Muscles. I mean really.....

#39 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles said:

Lol are you serious?? You want to low ball that badly?

How about this champ?

Even if she is pulling 1/100 of the Earth (probably closer to 1/5-1/3) she would still be moving 5.972*10^22 kilograms which makes all strength feats from Invincible look like a joke.

I did not lowball anything. Your pick is a picture of the Planet that was not really moved at all with all 3 Pulling it.

  1. It is heavily Argued that Superman and Martian Manhunter are vastly superior to Wonder Woman who also only was there for the Lasso.
  2. Add to that They failed to move the planet, Kyle did it. So she really failed to do anything.
  3. Also do planets have Weight in "Weightless" space? Can you show me the quantifiable science to this? I bet you can't.

4.Not a very good counter by using a out of context high showing with so many flaws in it.

1. So she was only there for the lasso? then why is she pulling at all?

2. Um they did move it

3. Oh wow, you do not want to go there with me.

There is in fact weight to celestial objects based of the gravity of the system and surrounding objects.

When I have time I will post a full post with cited articles on the subject.

By the way the fact that you would even make this statement is nothing short of amazing.

4. Oh because your post somehow had great context? are you serious?

BA has beaten Superman and Captain Marvel before so trying to lowballl WW isn't even relevant. The fact is that no Invincible character has anything that puts them over a speculative 100,000 ton feat. That strength level still brings them no where even remotely close to BA's level.

#40 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks said:

@cadencev2 said:

These feats are far more impressive than Black Adam's feats in damage output. Just because Black Adam can fight Superman, does not mean he is equal, especially when Superman holds back. Supes also happens to have a weakness to magic! Black Adam was just recently DECIMATED by Ultraman who I bet Superman will handle with ease.

This is misconception, Superman does not have weakness to magic, he just don't have special resistance in it. Magic that can affect human will affect Superman to the same magnitude. By the way, neither Omni-Man or Invincible have resistance to magic, and they will take the full effect of magical lighting or punch.

That is the point though. What makes Supes so tough is his Invulnerability. Taking that away is a weakness when he relies on it like a crutch against 90% of his foes.

1.Also moving the moon is not all that impressive when the science behind is not specified or tested. It could be easy to rig a 100 rockets and move the moon out of the rotation a bit. How about something more quantifiable?

2. In fact how is moving a moon a strength feat? He is not lifting, striking, or anything! He is flying.... thats it. His FTL flying is the force moving the moon, not Strength in Muscles. I mean really.....

1. Oh wow man, just wow.

Please go read up on even the simplest of astrophysics.

2. Lol really? when was the last time you didn't use muscles while pushing something??

#41 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks said:

@cadencev2 said:

These feats are far more impressive than Black Adam's feats in damage output. Just because Black Adam can fight Superman, does not mean he is equal, especially when Superman holds back. Supes also happens to have a weakness to magic! Black Adam was just recently DECIMATED by Ultraman who I bet Superman will handle with ease.

This is misconception, Superman does not have weakness to magic, he just don't have special resistance in it. Magic that can affect human will affect Superman to the same magnitude. By the way, neither Omni-Man or Invincible have resistance to magic, and they will take the full effect of magical lighting or punch.

That is the point though. What makes Supes so tough is his Invulnerability. Taking that away is a weakness when he relies on it like a crutch against 90% of his foes.

Also moving the moon is not all that impressive when the science behind is not specified or tested. It could be easy to rig a 100 rockets and move the moon out of the rotation a bit. How about something more quantifiable?

In fact how is moving a moon a strength feat? He is not lifting, striking, or anything! He is flying.... thats it. His FTL flying is the force moving the moon, not Strength in Muscles. I mean really.....

Superman makes mountains crumble before during the fight with H'el, and I don't think he was going all out either. Ultraman is Superman's equal, but with only different background and morality, he can replicate the same feat.

Anything can move the Moon, but 100 rockets will probably move in only few millimeters (or less) per second etc. But to move the Moon across large distance like that required really large object to tug it, or a being that can exert enough force to move it. Regardless, Superman can bench Earth's weight before, and Ultraman = Superman, so the Moon is like 80 times easier to move than benching Earth's weight. This is quantifiable, and it can be calculated with first-year college (or even high school) physics, even I can calculate it, but I'm not up to that now.

There're several theories on how Superman and his alternate versions move object that big. Flying fast is not in any explanation, it's probably only 2 ways, pure physical strength or a form of tactile telekinesis (Byrne's theory), maybe even both. Although physically flying fast means generating more force, but in comics, there're more than simple physics operating out there as there're psionic involved.

Anyway, if we assume that feat is lifting, then it can be translated into crushing force. Invincible comic loves crushing (I always use this argument against someone who said "lifting strength is useless in battle") and dismembering, but only people with impressive lifting strength can have advantage in that. Black Adam is weaker than Ultraman, but he can hurt him already mean that the Black Adam's strength in comparison to Ultraman is probably more analogous to bantam weight vs heavy weight rather than a man to Superman.

#42 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Oh wow man, just wow.

Please go read up on even the simplest of astrophysics.

2. Lol really? when was the last time you didn't use muscles while pushing something??

1) I know, you still have not proven the Calculable feats yet. It is wow.

2) When was the last time I could fly? that is a silly question. Wow man, just wow.

1. So she was only there for the lasso? then why is she pulling at all?

2. Um they did move it

3. Oh wow, you do not want to go there with me.

There is in fact weight to celestial objects based of the gravity of the system and surrounding objects.

When I have time I will post a full post with cited articles on the subject.

By the way the fact that you would even make this statement is nothing short of amazing.

4. Oh because your post somehow had great context? are you serious?

BA has beaten Superman and Captain Marvel before so trying to lowballl WW isn't even relevant. The fact is that no Invincible character has anything that puts them over a speculative 100,000 ton feat. That strength level still brings them no where even remotely close to BA's level.

1) She was the only one with a lasso. She has some strength, why not use it if you can? As I said planets do not have the same weight or physics as we do on earth.

2) Not really. Kyle did.

3) Im going where I want. You have proven nothing to me in math or numbers to determine strength here. Just throwing out fancy words like you know something. Pretty weak sauce without any real factual results.

4) I am using calculable feats that can be judged accurately rather than pulling BS high one time feats of pulling planets which is so far from the average showings of the characters it is laughable.

You got nothing here that is solid.

#43 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman makes mountains crumble before during the fight with H'el, and I don't think he was going all out either. Ultraman is Superman's equal, but with only different background and morality, he can replicate the same feat.

Anything can move the Moon, but 100 rockets will probably move in only few millimeters (or less) per second etc. But to move the Moon across large distance like that required really large object to tug it, or a being that can exert enough force to move it. Regardless, Superman can bench Earth's weight before, and Ultraman = Superman, so the Moon is like 80 times easier to move than benching Earth's weight. This is quantifiable, and it can be calculated with first-year college (or even high school) physics, even I can calculate it, but I'm not up to that now.

There're several theories on how Superman and his alternate versions move object that big. Flying fast is not in any explanation, it's probably only 2 ways, pure physical strength or a form of tactile telekinesis (Byrne's theory), maybe even both. Although physically flying fast means generating more force, but in comics, there're more than simple physics operating out there as there're psionic involved.

Anyway, if we assume that feat is lifting, then it can be translated into crushing force. Invincible comic loves crushing (I always use this argument against someone who said "lifting strength is useless in battle") and dismembering, but only people with impressive lifting strength can have advantage in that. Black Adam is weaker than Ultraman, but he can hurt him already mean that the Black Adam's strength in comparison to Ultraman is probably more analogous to bantam weight vs heavy weight rather than a man to Superman.


1) That is New 52 and nothing to do with Pre 52 Superman who fought Black Adam. Pre 52 Superman had trouble busting War World (Which is smaller than Pluto IIRC) and yet New 52 can bench press the world for 5 days. Big Difference.

2) More on New 52 and nothing on Black Adam of pre 52 who barely could match a clearly weaker Superman then.

3) Strength should not play a roll at all considering you would go through the moon with that much force. not push it. So TK seems a better option which has nothing to do with Strength in the muscles. Its all bad writing :/

4) I can get behind that.

#44 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles said:

1. Oh wow man, just wow.

Please go read up on even the simplest of astrophysics.

2. Lol really? when was the last time you didn't use muscles while pushing something??

1) I know, you still have not proven the Calculable feats yet. It is wow.

2) When was the last time I could fly? that is a silly question. Wow man, just wow.

@man_of_miracles said:

1. So she was only there for the lasso? then why is she pulling at all?

2. Um they did move it

3. Oh wow, you do not want to go there with me.

There is in fact weight to celestial objects based of the gravity of the system and surrounding objects.

When I have time I will post a full post with cited articles on the subject.

By the way the fact that you would even make this statement is nothing short of amazing.

4. Oh because your post somehow had great context? are you serious?

BA has beaten Superman and Captain Marvel before so trying to lowballl WW isn't even relevant. The fact is that no Invincible character has anything that puts them over a speculative 100,000 ton feat. That strength level still brings them no where even remotely close to BA's level.

1) She was the only one with a lasso. She has some strength, why not use it if you can? As I said planets do not have the same weight or physics as we do on earth.

2) Not really. Kyle did.

3) Im going where I want. You have proven nothing to me in math or numbers to determine strength here. Just throwing out fancy words like you know something. Pretty weak sauce without any real factual results.

4) I am using calculable feats that can be judged accurately rather than pulling BS high one time feats of pulling planets which is so far from the average showings of the characters it is laughable.

You got nothing here that is solid.

Here you go man. You can sit down now.

Lunar orbital velocity: 1.022 km/s

Lunar mass: 7.3477 X 10^22 kg

Kinetic energy = 1/2 (7.3477 X 10^22) (1022^2)

3.837 X 10^28 joules to take the moon out of orbit.

To put that in that in easier terms for you to understand it would take 9.18 X 10^12 megatons of force to knock the moon out of orbit. Or 9.18 X 10^18 tons of TNT.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us again how that isn't impressive.

#45 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles: It is impressive. However, is Explosive force the same as Pulling force? It is not. Pulling with distance, and leverage with a Lasso is a different calc all together.

So lets see that Calc now. Also lets try to calc this as well.

How much strength would be require to push your body through a world at near light speed? Each one of these guys did it. Lets Calc that now.

#46 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@man_of_miracles: It is impressive. However, is Explosive force the same as Pulling force? it is not. Pulling with distance and leverage with a Lasso is a different calc all together.

So lets see that Calc now. Also lets try to calc this as well.

How much strength would be require to push your body through a world at near light speed? Each one of these guys did it. Lets Calc that now.

1. Joules are just a unit of force, force is the same no matter how it is applied, that is not difficult to understand. So the calculation (which was for the Moon, not even the Earth which would be far greater) would be the same, it takes that amount of joules of force to move the Moon out of orbit simple as that.

2. Ohhhhh here we go!

Blaming me for out of context scans? It doesn't get more out of context than this!

Before this a laser was shot through the planet to even allow them to do this. So the feat is completely and utterly undefinable as we have no way of knowing how much damage the laser did before hand. For all we know they might basically be flying through s tunnel created by the laser.

#47 Edited by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@man_of_miracles: It is impressive. However, is Explosive force the same as Pulling force? it is not. Pulling with distance and leverage with a Lasso is a different calc all together.

So lets see that Calc now. Also lets try to calc this as well.

How much strength would be require to push your body through a world at near light speed? Each one of these guys did it. Lets Calc that now.

Assuming 99.99% of light speed and mass of 300 kg, the total energy would be about 6453 megatons, or roughly 25% more energy than the entire nuclear arsenal at the height of Cold War, as impressive as it sounds, it far from enough to destroy planet, even asteroid impact at Yucatan Peninsula yield millions of times more power than that. That means the planet have been weakened significantly by the beam fired at it earlier.

*typo, fixed

#48 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@man_of_miracles: It is impressive. However, is Explosive force the same as Pulling force? it is not. Pulling with distance and leverage with a Lasso is a different calc all together.

So lets see that Calc now. Also lets try to calc this as well.

How much strength would be require to push your body through a world at near light speed? Each one of these guys did it. Lets Calc that now.

Assuming 99.99% of light speed and mass of 300 kg, the total energy would be upon 6453 megatons, or roughly 25% more energy than the entire nuclear arsenal at the height of Cold War, as impressive as it sounds, it far from enough to destroy planet, even asteroid impact at Yucatan Peninsula yield millions of times more power than that. That means the planet have been weakened significantly by the beam fired at it earlier.

Not to mention that pales in comparison to the 9.18 X 10^12 megatons required to move the moon out of orbit.

#49 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@man_of_miracles said:

1. Joules are just a unit of force, force is the same no matter how it is applied, that is not difficult to understand. So the calculation (which was for the Moon, not even the Earth which would be far greater) would be the same, it takes that amount of joules of force to move the Moon out of orbit simple as that.

2. Ohhhhh here we go!

Blaming me for out of context scans? It doesn't get more out of context than this!

Before this a laser was shot through the planet to even allow them to do this. So the feat is completely and utterly undefinable as we have no way of knowing how much damage the laser did before hand. For all we know they might basically be flying through s tunnel created by the laser.

1) But pulling makes it easier regardless. That is pretty basic info on simple machines. This has been argued in other threads pertaining to the Earth Pulling feat.

2) Here is the problem, with the facts we see.

That Laser is smaller than my fist is wide. They used it to destabilize the core. What does that mean really? No one I talked to have yet define why he shot the tiny little laser that goes through anything.

Also it seems Allan was suppose to combine his strength with their own. Meaning they were overcompensating to begin with. They probably did not need the Laser any more than they needed Allan. So what role did the Laser play to begin with? Was it essential as Allan supreme strength was?

Nothing out of context as it seem to do nothing other than keep the core from stabilizing which plays no role in helping them fly through the planet itself with their power. Especially when the laser is no wider than my own fist.

So I guess this feat is as unquantifiable as the pulling earth then. I mean, how far did they pull earth if they pulled it at all? There was no measurement or stated distance......

Anyway it is clear people will always try to claim Black Adam is planet destroying in strength, or even moon destroying base on feats of characters he fought who have just as much unquantifiable, and no science back facts other than theory of numbers. Did you know Roughly two-thirds of all spacecraft destined for Mars failed before completing their mission thanks to getting the numbers wrong? I know they are smarter with numbers than you are ;) get my drift?

All you proven is best guessed theory and nothing of fact. Until they move the moon and accurately record the numbers, your all guesswork.

@angryhulks said:

Assuming 99.99% of light speed and mass of 300 kg, the total energy would be about 6453 megatons, or roughly 25% more energy than the entire nuclear arsenal at the height of Cold War, as impressive as it sounds, it far from enough to destroy planet, even asteroid impact at Yucatan Peninsula yield millions of times more power than that. That means the planet have been weakened significantly by the beam fired at it earlier.

*typo, fixed

Maybe. Early Invincible did crater and clouded what seems 1/20th of the surface of the moon with his impact and force.

That was way weaker Invincible as well. :/ So.....

#50 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:
@man_of_miracles said:

1. Joules are just a unit of force, force is the same no matter how it is applied, that is not difficult to understand. So the calculation (which was for the Moon, not even the Earth which would be far greater) would be the same, it takes that amount of joules of force to move the Moon out of orbit simple as that.

2. Ohhhhh here we go!

Blaming me for out of context scans? It doesn't get more out of context than this!

Before this a laser was shot through the planet to even allow them to do this. So the feat is completely and utterly undefinable as we have no way of knowing how much damage the laser did before hand. For all we know they might basically be flying through s tunnel created by the laser.

1) But pulling makes it easier regardless. That is pretty basic info on simple machines. This has been argued in other threads pertaining to the Earth Pulling feat.

2) Here is the problem, with the facts we see.

That Laser is smaller than my fist is wide. They used it to destabilize the core. What does that mean really? No one I talked to have yet define why he shot the tiny little laser that goes through anything.

Also it seems Allan was suppose to combine his strength with their own. Meaning they were overcompensating to begin with. They probably did not need the Laser any more than they needed Allan. So what role did the Laser play to begin with? Was it essential as Allan supreme strength was?

Nothing out of context as it seem to do nothing other than keep the core from stabilizing which plays no role in helping them fly through the planet itself with their power. Especially when the laser is no wider than my own fist.

So I guess this feat is as unquantifiable as the pulling earth then. I mean, how far did they pull earth if they pulled it at all? There was no measurement or stated distance......

Anyway it is clear people will always try to claim Black Adam is planet destroying in strength, or even moon destroying base on feats of characters he fought who have just as much unquantifiable, and no science back facts other than theory of numbers. Did you know Roughly two-thirds of all spacecraft destined for Mars failed before completing their mission thanks to getting the numbers wrong? I know they are smarter with numbers than you are ;) get my drift?

All you proven is best guessed theory and nothing of fact. Until they move the moon and accurately record the numbers, your all guesswork.

@angryhulks said:

Assuming 99.99% of light speed and mass of 300 kg, the total energy would be about 6453 megatons, or roughly 25% more energy than the entire nuclear arsenal at the height of Cold War, as impressive as it sounds, it far from enough to destroy planet, even asteroid impact at Yucatan Peninsula yield millions of times more power than that. That means the planet have been weakened significantly by the beam fired at it earlier.

*typo, fixed

Maybe. Early Invincible did crater what seems 1/30th of the surface of the moon with his impact and force.

That was way weaker Invincible as well. :/ So.....

1. No pulling it does not make it easier. You clearly do not have a very good grasp of force. The same amount of force is required to move it from orbit whether you are pushing, or puling or whatever. The force required is the forced required.

2. Again Even without the laser the force required to fly through the planet was calculated and it is so much less that the force required to move the Moon it is almost negligible. And again you are trying to validate the feat, you can't validate it, the fact is that we have no idea what the laser may or may not have done.

I am glad you brought up the Earth feat. You say it is not quantifiable because no distance was provided. That is wrong. Again you have to grasp the concept here, moving the Earth(or Moon) out of its orbit whether by a foot or by a mile requires the force I stated to even move it at all. Do you see what I am saying? to even initiate movement you must exceed the force that I gave before. So it is obviously quantifiable and I have already quantified it for the moon, but you seem to be avoiding that fact.

There is no guesswork, those are easily defined numbers and how many rovers made it to Mars is completely and utterly irrelevant. Not to mention that I am calculating one simple thing where as the Mars rovers had to account for thousands of variables, they are are not the same and trying to compare sounds idiotic.

3. 1/30th of the Moon? pure and utter speculation on your part. You have no idea what the area is.