Omega Red vs Venom and Carnage

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A big factor for me is how well the symbiotes could stand up to the life drain. But, combined I think they have the means at their disposal to make this extremely entertaining and potentially bring down Omega Red for a brief incapacitation.

@k4tzm4n said:

A big factor for me is how well the symbiotes could stand up to the death spores / life drain. But, combined I think they have the means at their disposal to make this extremely entertaining and potentially bring down Omega Red for a brief incapacitation.

As its Carnage in his prime couldn't he solo? Just take possession of Omega Red like he did to the Avengers team.

@Strider92 said:

@k4tzm4n said:

A big factor for me is how well the symbiotes could stand up to the death spores / life drain. But, combined I think they have the means at their disposal to make this extremely entertaining and potentially bring down Omega Red for a brief incapacitation.

As its Carnage in his prime couldn't he solo? Just take possession of Omega Red like he did to the Avengers team.

Classic Venom (Eddie Brock) and Carnage. In their prime.

^I took that remark as classic applying to Carnage as well, but at his best during that time period.

@k4tzm4n: Ah I thought that only applied to Eddie. In that case the symbiote's have a shot but its going to be a very long fight.

I believe that one of the symbiotes can solo.I dunno....

Wolverine can,why not them???

@Stronger: Make Omega Red vs Wolverine and Logan isn't taking a majority in that thread.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: Make Omega Red vs Wolverine and Logan isn't taking a majority in that thread.

Wolverine has defeated him in the comics.

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: Make Omega Red vs Wolverine and Logan isn't taking a majority in that thread.

Wolverine has defeated him in the comics.

Yup, he has.

• By using the m-blade.
• By using the environment (trapping him under jail bars)
• Being saved by his teammates (Kurt tele-drops Omega Red)

Wolverine did temporarily take down Omega Red and unknown amount of times during their 18 hour fight, but it was more than clear that Omega Red is his superior when it comes to direct combat. Wolverine would have died from that battle if Maverick didn't give him medial attention. Omega Red? He was perfectly fine.

Either symbiote solos.

@Joygirl said:

Either symbiote solos.

I've always been mixed on Carnage or Venom vs Omega Red.

• The symbiote shouldn't be immune to life drain, so I imagine it comes down to how long before the effects of death spores/life drain would take to incapacitate the symbiote. (We saw Brock defeated when hit by a similar attack from Styx)
• Omega Red's durability and healing factor makes him incredibly difficult to drop. He can withstand either of the strengths easily and we know he has no trouble with taking stabbing/cutting damage. I do think he can be defeated if they try to suffocate him, though. But again, it's a matter of if that happens before the first point.

Fortunately, Eddie loves suffocating people and both of them are MUCH stronger than Arkady. And the symbiotes have filtration systems, so it's unlikely the spores would have any effect. IF he can hurt them with the tentacles, he'd have to catch them first, which is unlikely since they're both way faster.

@Joygirl: Yup, it's definitely something Brock could do. But at the same rate, using life drain on either symbiote is an equally big factor in my eyes. You're talking about him releasing them through the air. He can apply it directly through touch, and that's called life drain.

I believe the symbiote should offer protection against death spores. Styx's touch is basically a super potent carcinogen. The death spores are air-based and the Carnage symbiote would seem to be able to filter out negative effects from the air, is it did allow its host to survive in space without oxygen in the environment.

@BringnIt: Again, talking about applying through touch.

@k4tz: I addressed that as well by saying they're way faster than him. He has to touch them for death effect and he probably won't be able to.

@Joygirl: They're fast, but they're hardly too agile for Arkady to touch either in close range.

Sorry, it takes me awhile to post from my tablet, so your explanation was not there when I started my prior post. I would think that Brock in particular is agile enough and stealthy enough with use of his camouflage to keep away from the life drain and win via webbing.

@BringnIt: It's all good. Something we've all overlooked is the fact that the area is populated and Omega Red is bloodlusted. His healing factor will be at the top of its game from draining everyone around him.

Well, I'm sure Carnage would be draining people as well, but a good point.

@k4tzm4n: Eddie once told Spider-Man it looked like he was standing still, and Carnage is faster. They (or at least Venom) can also use camoflage for a stealth kill. I don't think Casady will be too useful besides as a distraction, but Venom can camo, slip behind him, and drown him in symbiote. Then, for added delight, turn the tendrils in Arkady's lungs into spikes.

@Joygirl: Not sure why you're still talking about speed when I never disputed that. I remarked on their agility. Neither are especially well-known for using that to their full potential in combat.

Omega Red is going to be easily killed here. Wolverine has great difficulty putting him down, and now he has an entire population on the street to further boost his healing factor.

I didn't think of that... farming the people around him for more power. That can extend things for Red and give him a better chance, but I still don't see him winning UNLESS we count PIS feats like him overpowering Colossus even though he's nowhere near the big C's weight class. Ignoring stuff like that, even if he grabs them in tentacles they should easily be strong enough to escape, or just attack with tentacles of their own.

@Joygirl: He never overpowered Colossus in strength. Arkady only has 10 ton strength. The thing is Colossus can't break the carbonadium coils and the life drain severely weakened him (to the point where Arkady could even dig his fingers into Colossus' armor).

Even that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Since when is C's armor weakened when he is? He can get tired of weak but I'm never seen his armor weakened, it's silly.

@Joygirl: When he uses the ability via touch it drains the other individual's life force. It made him weak, and I guess in turn that made every aspect of him weak, including his durability.

@k4tzm4n@Joygirl I'm unfamiliar with just how quickly Omega Red can take someone out with his lifedrain, but venom and carnage can both play the range game as well as he can...Venom with his webs and the odd hidden grabbing tendril, and carnage with barrages of symbiot spikes and 30ft-long axe arms. Unless his healing factor can seal up a massive fleshwounds in about 4 seconds, any hits he takes from Carnage's spikes should disable him enough for the two symbiotes to quickly close the gap and suffocate him, stab him through the eyes, or impale vital organs without removing the symbiote claw/spike.

Venom + Carnage is a massive threat, I'll admit that I don't know alot about Omega Red, but I feel like he'd could lose to either one of them separately, although I imagine it would still be a decent fight since he ofcourse has lifedrain and healing factor.

Does Omega Red have any really impressive win feats you could share?

@fondofpacman: Ask and you shall receive!

This actually happened when Omega Red started the fight in a weakened state. He was tortued, without his armor, and hasn't been able to drain anyone for sometime. He needs to drain people to fight off the carbonadium poisoning he's constantly undergoing.

@k4tzm4n: Hmm, seems pretty damn tough. Doesn't have an adamantium skeleton though, correct?

@fondofpacman: Correct, no adamantium. However, he does have carbonadium lacing throughout his body (and that's what the coils are made of), and he's usually wearing a carbonadium armor as well.

@k4tzm4n: Ok, well, i definitely have some doubts now that Venom would take him solo now, especially with tons of people around OmegaRed could drain...he healed pretty much instantly after touching Colossus. Venom might need to camouflage ambush him, and that might not be practical without at least a few seconds prep.

However, add Carnage to the situation and it still seems almost impossible for him to take the both of them...Carnage puts up an immensely strong offense, and Eddie is, of course, also very strong and not a horrible tactician. Is that scan a decent representation of his established strength in your honest opinion, or was that issue done by a wet-behind-the-ears writer buffing him up?

@fondofpacman: I think it's fine. Omega Red is notorious for his difficulty to be dropped. After all, he once fought Wolverine for 18 hours and was perfectly fine. I imagine he took an incredible amount of damage during that lengthy battle. Wolverine, on the other hand, nearly died.

I agree with all of that. I just think the biggest variable here is how immediate the effects of life drain would be on either symbiote. That's a big factor in my eyes.

@k4tzm4n: Agreed. But I think symbiotes are malleable enough to slip out of Omega Red's grip after a few seconds, but the big question is how much would those few seconds weaken them.

Unless Omega Red gets both of them simultaneously, he's going to have a problem...namely because if he grabs Venom, he's got to need to focus on not losing his grip on him, all the while his mobility is restricted while he's got freaking Carnage flailing at him trying to chop his head off (or partially off at least, don't think his symbiote axe could cut through the carbonadium lacing in a single swipe)...and I'd suspect Venom could still be active after a couple seconds of energy drain based on what I saw in the scans.

Who did the artwork for the Omega Red scans?

Who did the artwork for the Omega Red scans?

@Morpheus Thank you.

Would the version of Omega Red that was draining Colossus be considered Classic? The Classic Omega Red was one who fought Logan with some degree of difficulty right? Classic versions Venom and Carnage shouldn't have issues, they can match Omega Red tendril for tendril, don't require air for some time (death spores might not be effective), have healing factors to counter death spores and have noticeably better speed/strength. Also how much will draining people help Red, before the symbiotes attack?

In other threads that were Omega Red vs Venom and Omega Red vs Carnage I'm confident both combatants can put him down by themselves.

@k4tzm4n said:

Wolverine, on the other hand, nearly died.

Due to prolonged exposure to Death Spores? I don't even know how Wolverine can fight Arkady if he manages to catch Wolverine's limbs with his tendrils. Logan doesn't have enough strength to get out of that situation but the symbiotes can, assuming life drain doesn't affect them too much because of their HF.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: Make Omega Red vs Wolverine and Logan isn't taking a majority in that thread.

Wolverine has defeated him in the comics.

Yup, he has.

• By using the m-blade.
• By using the environment (trapping him under jail bars)
• Being saved by his teammates (Kurt tele-drops Omega Red)

Wolverine did temporarily take down Omega Red and unknown amount of times during their 18 hour fight, but it was more than clear that Omega Red is his superior when it comes to direct combat. Wolverine would have died from that battle if Maverick didn't give him medial attention. Omega Red? He was perfectly fine.

I dont believe that there is anything wrong with using the environment.

Spider-man has taken down Carnage using his environment,even though Kasady is superior to direct combat.

I am not saying that Spider-man is better than Carnage or Wolverine is better than Omega Red.

I just believe that Venom and Carnage who have a way bigger variety of powers and are way faster and stronger than both Wolverine and Omega Red can defeat him in 1vs1.

On the other hand there is Omega Reds life draining.....I dont know.

I think Venom and Carnage have a healing factor as well.

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: Make Omega Red vs Wolverine and Logan isn't taking a majority in that thread.

Wolverine has defeated him in the comics.

Yup, he has.

• By using the m-blade.
• By using the environment (trapping him under jail bars)
• Being saved by his teammates (Kurt tele-drops Omega Red)

Wolverine did temporarily take down Omega Red and unknown amount of times during their 18 hour fight, but it was more than clear that Omega Red is his superior when it comes to direct combat. Wolverine would have died from that battle if Maverick didn't give him medial attention. Omega Red? He was perfectly fine.

I dont believe that there is anything wrong with using the environment.

Spider-man has taken down Carnage using his environment,even though Kasady is superior to direct combat.

I am not saying that Spider-man is better than Carnage or Wolverine is better than Omega Red.

I just believe that Venom and Carnage who have a way bigger variety of powers and are way faster and stronger than both Wolverine and Omega Red can defeat him in 1vs1.

On the other hand there is Omega Reds life draining.....I dont know.

I think Venom and Carnage have a healing factor as well.

• That same tactic (using the environment) wouldn't be available in a standard and unpopulated city block. With that specific environment, Wolverine couldn't win.
• And if you make Carnage vs Spider-Man in standard settings, that answer should be obvious, too.
• Yes, the symbiote heals, but my entire point is that life drain can play a big role depending on how significant the impact is on the symbiote.

Just because a hero has defeated a villain before doesn't mean they're going to take a majority in a standard encounter. Spider-Man has bested Venom (Brock) plenty of times, but it's often through factors that are unlikely to be available in a random encounter. There's the significant difference.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: Make Omega Red vs Wolverine and Logan isn't taking a majority in that thread.

Wolverine has defeated him in the comics.

Yup, he has.

• By using the m-blade.
• By using the environment (trapping him under jail bars)
• Being saved by his teammates (Kurt tele-drops Omega Red)

Wolverine did temporarily take down Omega Red and unknown amount of times during their 18 hour fight, but it was more than clear that Omega Red is his superior when it comes to direct combat. Wolverine would have died from that battle if Maverick didn't give him medial attention. Omega Red? He was perfectly fine.

I dont believe that there is anything wrong with using the environment.

Spider-man has taken down Carnage using his environment,even though Kasady is superior to direct combat.

I am not saying that Spider-man is better than Carnage or Wolverine is better than Omega Red.

I just believe that Venom and Carnage who have a way bigger variety of powers and are way faster and stronger than both Wolverine and Omega Red can defeat him in 1vs1.

On the other hand there is Omega Reds life draining.....I dont know.

I think Venom and Carnage have a healing factor as well.

• That same tactic (using the environment) wouldn't be available in a standard and unpopulated city block. With that specific environment, Wolverine couldn't win.
• And if you make Carnage vs Spider-Man in standard settings, that answer should be obvious, too.
• Yes, the symbiote heals, but my entire point is that life drain can play a big role depending on how significant the impact is on the symbiote.

Just because a hero has defeated a villain before doesn't mean they're going to take a majority in a standard encounter. Spider-Man has bested Venom (Brock) plenty of times, but it's often through factors that are unlikely to be available in a random encounter. There's the significant difference.

First of all,dont put words that I have never said.

I never said Wolverine and Spider-man are better than Omega Red and Carnage.

Of course,Carnage vs Spider-man in standart setting is an overkill for Carnage.

Now about the Omega Red vs Symbiotes match,Carnage and Venom are both psysically stronger,faster and they have more capabilities.Think about.Why cant they knock him out before he catches them?

@k4tzm4n: From the scans you posted Arkady doesnt seem to get the upper hand.

@Stronger: I didn't, I was responding to your posts. No need for the hostility.

The Spider-Man vs Carnage response was in regards to you saying this "Sider-man has taken down Carnage using his environment,even though Kasady is superior to direct combat." Seems kind of redundant to say if you're fully aware of the fact that it doesn't matter in a standard battle thread, right? So naturally, this same line of thinking applies to Wolverine and Omega Red. I don't see where any confusion is. Obviously Wolverine has defeated Omega Red, but that's not going to mean much in a standard battle on the threads since there aren't factors in Wolverine's favor that he requires.

I never even chose a side in this battle. I'm discussing the points that I believe are critical to each team (life drain's impact on the symbiote, potential to suffocate Arkady). And them knocking him out isn't likely (he wasn't even wearing his armor in that battle). They're going to need to incapacitate him. This is a guy that shrugs off Colossus's strikes. To top it off, he's in a populated city, so using his death spores will vastly increase his healing factor.

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n: From the scans you posted Arkady doesnt seem to get the upper hand.

The scans weren't to make a case for Omega Red. Someone asked for scans of him in combat and I provided. However, they do show that he can definitely stand up to their strength as well as cope with their cutting damage.

@k4tzm4n: Good point but wasnt Colossus an 75 tonner back then??

@Stronger: I don't know Colossus' exact level of strength at the time, but this was only a few years ago and Omega Red dealt with it just fine. Not to mention that was without his armor and in a weakened state (until he drained Col). In this scenario, he's draining from a population and has his armor. A KO doesn't seem likely to me.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: I don't know Colossus' exact level of strength at the time, but this was only a few years ago and Omega Red dealt with it just fine. Not to mention that was without his armor and in a weakened state (until he drained Col). In this scenario, he's draining from a population and has his armor. A KO doesn't seem likely to me.

So what do you say?? Arkady or the symbiotes?

@Stronger

@k4tzm4n said:

A big factor for me is how well the symbiotes could stand up to the life drain. But, combined I think they have the means at their disposal to make this extremely entertaining and potentially bring down Omega Red for a brief incapacitation.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger

@k4tzm4n said:

A big factor for me is how well the symbiotes could stand up to the life drain. But, combined I think they have the means at their disposal to make this extremely entertaining and potentially bring down Omega Red for a brief incapacitation.

Well I guess we will have to see it in a comic to find out.

@Stronger: Unfortunately, that'll never happen.

Anyone feel like sending a twitter question to Jim Lee since he made the character?