Omega Red vs The Lizard

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CaptainGuts

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Random encounter

The fight in Central Park

Start 50 yards from each other

Red has death spores

Lizard has feats from any of his mutations except for telepathy that he had in "shed"

No BFR

Death or KO

Fight!

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Lizard easily

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mickey-mouse

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: No. Red is Stronger, has the carbanium limbs(adamantium light) + they hurt healing factors. Lizard has no answer for death spores. Red can drain the life from him.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@lukehero: kizards healing factors is around the levels of deathspores he should be able to tank it long enough to blitz him, stronger based on what his fight vs colousses? He has no other strength showings i'd put above lizard, plus he dosen't have the speed to deal with lizard and lizard has the right tools to out him down

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mickey-mouse

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#5  Edited By mickey-mouse

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: That fight with Colossus is still more impressive than anything the lizard has done strength wise. Let's say the Lizard is stronger? Deathspores still worked on Wolverine's healing factor which is better than the Lizard's. He doesn't need the speed, there is no way to avoid the death spores which will slow down & weaken the lizard. Then he grabs him with the carbanium tentacles and drains the life from him. Omega Red wins, even if the Lizard is stronger.

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HellionVulcan

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Omega red with some difficulty wins

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jashro44

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Leaning towards Omega Red but I think he would have difficulty against current lizard, assuming the lizard persona is in control and lizard is stable.

Lizard easily

He might not even win at all let alone easily.

@lukehero said:

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: No. Red is Stronger, has the carbanium limbs(adamantium light) + they hurt healing factors. Lizard has no answer for death spores. Red can drain the life from him.

Omega red isn't stronger than lizard. His fight with colossus was because colossus was weakened with deathspores.

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transcendence

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The Lizard.

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mickey-mouse

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@jashro44: That's a good point then. But, there still is a clear case for Omega winning as I said above.

Let's say the Lizard is stronger? Deathspores still worked on Wolverine's healing factor which is better than the Lizard's

He might not even win at all let alone easily.

^^^^ That was my main point.

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mickey-mouse

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CaptainGuts

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Bump

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nefarious

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Noone301994

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Probably Lizard.

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laflux

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nefarious

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SodamYat

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Based on arguments presented here, Omega Red wins.

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NimaMindTricks

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#18  Edited By NimaMindTricks

Omega Red is strong enough hurt Colossus by digging his fingers into him, his tentacles have consistently strong enough to restrain Colossus, and he was easily able to hold a military helicopter from flying away without any strain.

All that plus his healing factor, armor, skill, and death spores brings him the win.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Speedster101

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: If I may but into this argument...

It doesn't matter if he was weakened by the Spores because the Spores are in affect here so the Lizard will be weakened the same way Collossus was.

Lizard is stronger normally, yes, but since the Spores weakened Collossus they'll weaken Lizard.

That said, I'm backing Red here.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@speedster101: first he won't be weakened straight away anyway because his healing factor which colossus does not and its on the same level as wolverine so he can tank the deathspores for some time granted if the fight went on for longer he may lose but seeing as this is a composite lizard he has conners intelligence and lizards Savagery he outclasses omega red in speed and strength and has the damage output necessary

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Speedster101

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Is his healing factor as good as Logan's? IIRC the spores have affected him before?

Also how will be get in close? I think Red could keep him at range with his tentacles

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@speedster101: well he's been stabbed in the brain and was fine, also healed and tanked human torch, so his healing factor should keep him recovered enough and he can get in close because he outclasses Arkardy in speed by a good margin, furthermore due to this is a composite version he'll have both the savagery and morals off lizard with also the added intelligence of curt, lastly wolverine was able to detect deathspores in the air if i'm correct lizard too has super senses where he'll detect it in the air aswell and with his intelligence he should know either to run or finish him fast and if he picks the latter he should win however if he dawdles about omega red could wear him down and finish him

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SodamYat

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@sodamyat said:

Based on arguments presented here, Omega Red wins.

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Speedster101

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: 1) Lizard would atleast, be slown down by the Spores. 2) Healing factor is bypassed by life draining. 3) Reds healing can keep him in the game if this doesn't work, and the. He can do it again.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@speedster101: well in my opinion lizard has the stats way too much in his favour too lose in a brawl and he's quick enough to blitz, spiderman has big trouble even tagging the lizard, his hardest punches can't even hurt him due to durability, lizard can overcome the spores just as wolverine and deadpool have and he has alot higher damage output than both arguably not withlogan but his strength and speed does and his claws should be able to cut through omega red

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NimaMindTricks

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#27  Edited By NimaMindTricks

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Prove it. He's wrapped Colossus off the bat, who is a 70 tonner. It's not always his go to move.

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Hiddenlight

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Prove it. He's wrapped Colossus off the bat, who is a 70 tonner. It's not always his go to move.

Death Spores nerfed him really hard, Colossus have no healing factor, he wouldn't be able to counter that in the same way that Lizard can.

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Speedster101

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NimaMindTricks

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#30  Edited By NimaMindTricks

@nimamindtricks said:

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Prove it. He's wrapped Colossus off the bat, who is a 70 tonner. It's not always his go to move.

Death Spores nerfed him really hard, Colossus have no healing factor, he wouldn't be able to counter that in the same way that Lizard can.

What are you taking about? A weakened and armorless Omega Red dug his fingers into Colossus, making him bleed - no indication that the spores were being used IIRC. The reason Colossus has trouble getting out of the tentacles is because of the life absorption more than the death spores -- which by the way have worked on those with healing factors.

No Caption Provided

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@speedster101:

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Prove it. He's wrapped Colossus off the bat, who is a 70 tonner. It's not always his go to move.

colosuss was weakened due to deathspores which won't have the same affect on lizard like I have pointed out so there's no way to quantify that feat because he could be only weakened a little or it could be down to human strength for all we know

No Caption Provided

here is lizard easily dodging spidey

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healing and taking while stabbed on the brain

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smashed his way through to street level leaving a massive hole in the road

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a weaker version of lizard picked up a ships mast and used it as a baseball bat

given this and that he's constantly shown to be able to manhandle peter and vastly out strength him

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Speedster101

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: This is all well and good, but your missing the point... Wolverine has been affected by the Spores, so Lizard will at the very least be slowed down, so Red can wrap him up in his tentacles and drain him, which bypasses healing. Simple as that

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NimaMindTricks

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@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2:

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: This is all well and good, but your missing the point... Wolverine has been affected by the Spores, so Lizard will at the very least be slowed down, so Red can wrap him up in his tentacles and drain him, which bypasses healing. Simple as that

What he said^

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jashro44

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@hiddenlight said:

@nimamindtricks said:

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Prove it. He's wrapped Colossus off the bat, who is a 70 tonner. It's not always his go to move.

Death Spores nerfed him really hard, Colossus have no healing factor, he wouldn't be able to counter that in the same way that Lizard can.

What are you taking about? A weakened and armorless Omega Red dug his fingers into Colossus, making him bleed - no indication that the spores were being used IIRC. The reason Colossus has trouble getting out of the tentacles is because of the life absorption more than the death spores -- which by the way have worked on those with healing factors.

What do you base Omega red not using the spores on? The spores have always been written as something invisible and in that showing omega red didn't hurt colossus he flat out man handled him IIRC. Omega red isn't strong enough to do that. Its a great showing either way but unless there is evidence he didn't use spores....Theres is no reason to assume he didn't.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@jashro44: are omega reds tentacles stronger than Ocks or are they around same level?

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jashro44

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@jashro44: are omega reds tentacles stronger than Ocks or are they around same level?

There the same material but Omega red has his life drain and deathspores so I don't think lizard will break them. Colossus couldn't.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@jashro44: weren't thinking breaking it but out strengthing the grip, is the life drain also hindered by healing factor?

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@jashro44: weren't thinking breaking it but out strengthing the grip, is the life drain also hindered by healing factor?

I am not knowledgable enough about the affects of the life drain to say. I imagine between the carbonadium coils and deathspores Lizards healing factor wouldn't be working well with the addition of life drain....

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NimaMindTricks

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#39  Edited By NimaMindTricks

@jashro44: It doesn't matter if they're invisible. They're always explicitly stated that they are being used. Death spores do not effect the durability of steel, it clearly shows him digging past the steel and into Colossus. Is it a high showing? Definitely. Then again we do not regularly see OR in combat using his bare hands much. @k4tzm4n Posted the scan several times before, maybe he can explain.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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My final say i believe lizard will win due to stats and damage output is going to be very tricky for Arkady to withstand for long periods and the deathspores will probably negate the healing factor but i wouldn't say they will weaken him that much given the life drain will also weaken him with connors intelligence he will relize he needs to avoid them and finish it quick but i don't think it'll be easy

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GraniteSoldier

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Not saying who wins but a few things:

Lizard is stated by Peter to be around 3x his strength and speed, which puts Lizard well above Red on average. The Colossus showing is nice but it's high end at best.

Lizard's healing is comparable to Logan's as he's grown back limbs. Logan just has adamantium durability on top of it...also Lizard doesn't star in his own title and half a dozen others so he doesn't have exposure on his side either.

Lizard's biology is totally different than a humans (mutants are still human) so have Red's spores every effect anything that isn't human but still superhuman like Lizard? Let's ignore the healing factor for a moment because they might not even be as effective against someone like Lizard.

Not saying who wins...but some food for thought.

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jashro44

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#42  Edited By jashro44

@nimamindtricks said:

@jashro44: It doesn't matter if they're invisible. They're always explicitly stated that they are being used. Death spores do not effect the durability of steel, it clearly shows him digging past the steel and into Colossus. Is it a high showing? Definitely. Then again we do not regularly see OR in combat using his bare hands much. @k4tzm4n Posted the scan several times before, maybe he can explain.

Omega red never stated in wolverine volume 2 issue 174 that he was using his deathspores, wolverine just noticed. Just because its not stated to be in affect doesn't mean it isn't and its not much of a stretch to believe a writer broke common routine. Omega red isn't an 100 tonner, if he was than he wouldn't have been trapped when he was impaled by steel bars in wolverine origins:

Yes Omega red was in pain here, but steel bars that thin would be nothing to someone of colossus strength level regardless, plus omega red gets stabbed all the time. I'm not sure why it needs to be stated on panel to say colossus was weakened by deathspores for this to be acknowledged....If Colossus wasn't weakened with death spores than its PIS because Omega red isn't an 100 tonner. He is a 2-10 tonner to my knowledge.

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jashro44

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Not saying who wins but a few things:

Lizard is stated by Peter to be around 3x his strength and speed, which puts Lizard well above Red on average. The Colossus showing is nice but it's high end at best.

Lizard's healing is comparable to Logan's as he's grown back limbs. Logan just has adamantium durability on top of it...also Lizard doesn't star in his own title and half a dozen others so he doesn't have exposure on his side either.

Lizard's biology is totally different than a humans (mutants are still human) so have Red's spores every effect anything that isn't human but still superhuman like Lizard? Let's ignore the healing factor for a moment because they might not even be as effective against someone like Lizard.

Not saying who wins...but some food for thought.

Peter never stated Lizard was 3X faster, he only said he was 3X stronger (pre upgrade). All though he does seem to have a huge speed edge currently.

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NimaMindTricks

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#44  Edited By NimaMindTricks

@jashro44: I never said Omega Red states it, it is usually always mentioned on panel - which you show. Did the author forget about his armor in that scan? Because I'm almost certain Omega Red has laughed off RPGs, bullets, and puncture attacks beneath adamantium with zero damage - hell he even laughs it off. I know OR is no where close to a 100 tonner. Who says you have to be a 100 tonner to pull off what Omega Red did? It's not like it's a common occurrence we can site examples from. He didn't ragdoll him sans spores or anything or even lift a tank.

Just curious, at what strength level do you have to be to bend or lift steel bars off of you? I can almost guarantee Omega Red's strength level is way above what that cell door weighs. Hell, Wolverine should be able to life something like that off of him - it looks average size at best.

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xtreme1

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#45  Edited By xtreme1

I'm not calling a winner yet but the death spores and life drain aren't going to gain OR a quick win against Lizard like they did against Colossus. Wolverine has had many fights against Red that have lasted a while, with one fight even lasting 18 hours. And when Omega Red fought Sabretooth the spores and life drain flat out failed because of Creed's healing factor. I think that was stated on panel. So based on Omega Red's history against Logan and Creed, I think Lizard's healing factor will give him at least some protection against the spores and life drain.

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jashro44

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@nimamindtricks: as I said in the showing you are referring to omega red rag dolled and overpowered colossous. Also I went over the fight and red did drain colossous, he stated on the previous page colossous juiced him up. I can't upload scans now but there on page 2 of the doctor octopus vs omega red thread.