#1 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Greek Mythology or Norse Mythology?.

Olympus

vs

Asgard

Battle Type: War

Battle Rules:

Before Ragnarok

Morals On

Win by surrender or Death.

Who will reign supreme?

#2 Posted by Park (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

In a war Asgard would win. While each pantheon has two gods of war Asgard's primary god of war is Odin who possess more power than most others. His skill is in both battle AND tactics especially revolving around subterfuge or manipulation. Tyr's domain involves war and all it's honor and possess a very tactical mindset. Also the Asgardians have weapons that tip the balance in their favor such as Mjlnoir and the Odin Spear and Sword. The Odin spear always hits it's intended target and always scores a kill so all Odin would have to do is hit the target that would do the most damage, probably Zeus or maybe Poseidon and let the Aesir do the rest. Thor and Tyr could take most of them. Thalfi could match Hermes and Baldur could not die except for by mistletoe.

#3 Posted by acer51 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@Park: Yea Asgard wins, but Hercules is dangerous.

#4 Edited by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

If this in in mythology, then Zeus soloes if it's Pelasgian or Orphic (obviously), and Homer's. Hesiod's is debatable, but he is already shown power capable of destroying a universe already:

And now his thunder bolts would Jove [Zeus] wide scatter, but he feared the flames, unnumbered, sacred ether might ignite and burn the axle of the universe: and he remembered in the scroll of fate, there is a time appointed when the sea and earth and Heavens shall melt, and fire destroy the universe of mighty labour wrought. Such weapons by the skill of Cyclops forged, for different punishment he laid aside--for straightway he preferred to overwhelm the mortal race beneath deep waves and storms from every raining sky.

-- Taken from http://www.theoi.com/Heros/Deukalion.html

And that is the weakest version of Zeus. I don't see anybody else even achieving remotely that level of feat.

Homer's Zeus can beat all the Olympians (other Olympians) combined, and tow all the other Olympians and Gaia (the Earth) and Ouranos (the Sky) together with physical strength.

Pelasgian Zeus stomp-soloes. Eurynome and Ophion alone danced and slept on the Seas and Skies, each of which contained infinite universes (I'm not saying the pair had power over all of them). Kronos and Rhea/Rheia in that myth were even more powerful than them, overthrowing them, and Zeus overthrew the latter, being even more powerful.

Orphic Zeus blinks and Norse mythology dies. Just beyond classifications like "omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent".

@acer51 said:

@Park: Yea Asgard wins, but Hercules is dangerous.

What? You're talking about Heracles/Herakles (Hercules is a figure of Roman mythology) when beings like Zeus are needed? Odin can one-shot him with Gungnir.

@Park said:

In a war Asgard would win. While each pantheon has two gods of war Asgard's primary god of war is Odin who possess more power than most others. His skill is in both battle AND tactics especially revolving around subterfuge or manipulation. Tyr's domain involves war and all it's honor and possess a very tactical mindset. Also the Asgardians have weapons that tip the balance in their favor such as Mjlnoir and the Odin Spear and Sword. The Odin spear always hits it's intended target and always scores a kill so all Odin would have to do is hit the target that would do the most damage, probably Zeus or maybe Poseidon and let the Aesir do the rest. Thor and Tyr could take most of them. Thalfi could match Hermes and Baldur could not die except for by mistletoe.

This entire post is incorrect.

Odin's spear has a name, it's called Gungnir.

Lovely. Odin can instantly kill anything he wants. That explains how he was swallowed whole at Ragnarok by Fenrir (who can only swallow suns at best, Zeus destroys universes in his weakest incarnation) and Odin was bound by fate. Homer's Zeus and above were beyond fate, yet the Norns were able to destine the Aesir to die at Ragnarok. The Greek gods (at least high tier ones) were immortal, unlike the Aesir who died at Ragnarok (although some gods survived). You can't kill a Greek god like that. I'd love to see how Odin has anything on Zeus. Zeus soloes with universal destruction, which he can lessen to destroy Asgard, and Asgard only. Even if Odin is beyond time, throwing Gungnir (which is not beyond time) against Zeus means nothing because having banished Kronos (time) to Tartarus, he held/chained the power of time, and can manipulate it as he pleases.

I want to see any of the Aesir defeat Gaia (the Earth) and Typhon (a hundred-headed monster with unnumbered hands with serpent fingers which reached out and grabbed the East and West, whose head(s) brushed the stars, whose roar shook the heavens and was the off-spring of Gaia and Tartarus, Earth and Hell respectively) simultaneously. This is Homer's Zeus, though. One-shotting both of them at the same time is good, though. Odin died from Fenrir (who can swallow the Sun by opening his jaws) and Thor stalemated Jormungandr (both died), and Jormungandr just coils around Midgard.

None of the Asgardian Gods (except perhaps Odin) have feats capable of even resembling Poseidon's power. Poseidon has shaken the universe (all of it) and poured so much water it flooded all the way down to Tartarus (Hell), which is described as being so deep that if you threw a stone, for nine days it would sail down, and only on the tenth would it reach the depths of Hell's Pit.

Mjolnir's best feat is destroying mountains. And shaking part of Yggdrasil. Wonderful, it tips balances indeed against universe-destroying gods.

Tyr died from fighting Garmr (albeit he managed to slay it as well), but both are almost featless. Tyr is just brave. Garmr was simply a watchdog.

Baldr can still be banished to Tartarus, which Zeus can do to all the Norse gods because he did so to the Titans, who possess powers above the Aesir.

Hera alone created the Milky Way, and the longest constellation, without even noticing. Athena (in fact, all the Olympian gods) could make constellations. They can easily turn the weaker Aesir/Vanir-turned-Aesir into constellations, including Freyja, Freyr, Njord, Frigga, Fjorgyn, Heimdall and so on.

#5 Posted by Illuminatus (9489 posts) - - Show Bio

Norse mythos, because Nova takes this way too seriously.

#6 Edited by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

Norse mythos, because Nova takes this way too seriously.

LOL. I'm bored.

#7 Posted by Illuminatus (9489 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Illuminatus said:

Norse mythos, because Nova takes this way too seriously.

LOL. I'm bored.

What's funny is that I was just reading up on my Norse mythos the other day. The names are ridiculously hard to pronounce, let alone remember.

#8 Posted by Illuminatus (9489 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously, the Greek Gods were compensating for something. They went around, creating galaxies and flooding pocket-dimensions, while the Norse Gods just drank, ate, and killed some giants here and there.

#9 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus: After some time, I learned to remember/pronounce/whatever them.

@Illuminatus said:

Obviously, the Greek Gods were compensating for something. They went around, creating galaxies and flooding pocket-dimensions, while the Norse Gods just drank, ate, and killed some giants here and there.

LOL.

#10 Posted by Park (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: OK first off, my entire post was not incorrect although you may disagree with my opinions which I hope to god nobody takes as my idea of facts. I never said Odin's spear didn't have a name I just said that it was created to never miss and always kill so y'know, always killing kinda means always killing, even Zeus. Tyr is not featless nor is just brave. He has shown strategy when Loki fled from a giant who turned into an bird to chase the god of mischief, Tyr burned wood beneath the giant's wings (either to melt the feathers or keep it afloat so it couldn't set down I honestly forget). In mythology Thor is born of Odin and of the Earth which grants him domain over Earth along with lightning and storms (any storms not limited to Earth's atmosphere although he is also God of the Sky) so I will content that he could fight Gaia.

Also all I know about Typhon was that Zeus beat him back with thunderbolts which leads me to assume Thor could do the same. Although the fight is just Olympus and Asgard which would exclude Typhon and any Titan imprisoned in Tartarus.

Any Asgardian that died in battle Thor's hammer could return to life (It's a fertility thing, y'know masculinity, fertility, life-granting).

Odin is the son of Bor and said to be his equal (yes even in Mythology Bor had the power to crack the planet in two) so not only does Odin come close to Poseidon's feats, he arguably matches/surpasses them. Odin also knows the magic needed to make enemies attacks sterile in battle. Should anything 'magical' be done to harm Odin it would double back on it's caster. I'm going to assume that includes a lot of Zeus' metaphysical prowess. He can also make any who take arms against him passive and docile. Another charm is his ability to shield all men who fight with him from harm (himself included) in times of war.

I do believe that Zeus or Poseidon could stomp Thor. His showings against their dominions or foes they bested are rather weak. He did wrestle with time but was ultimately beaten. Sidenote: I thought Zeus only managed to imprison the Titans in Tartarus because of his many, many allies not that he just mystically banished them.

So in short we have a spear which can and will kill anything it is set upon. A God of war who can shield his men from all harm, make his enemies attacks weak and harmless, make his enemies calm and docile, can turn spells and curses against their caster, and commands all the fallen warriors. A God of war who can strategize and slaughter. A God of storms who owns the Earth and Sky, whose hammer can return life to the fallen and who is accompanied by two goats who's rampaging threatens to destroy all of creation.

What good is anything Zeus has done when his attacks are dulled and harmless and he lacks any wish to harm the army approaching?

#11 Edited by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Park said:

OK first off, my entire post was not incorrect although you may disagree with my opinions which I hope to god nobody takes as my idea of facts. I never said Odin's spear didn't have a name I just said that it was created to never miss and always kill so y'know, always killing kinda means always killing, even Zeus. Tyr is not featless nor is just brave. He has shown strategy when Loki fled from a giant who turned into an bird to chase the god of mischief, Tyr burned wood beneath the giant's wings (either to melt the feathers or keep it afloat so it couldn't set down I honestly forget). In mythology Thor is born of Odin and of the Earth which grants him domain over Earth along with lightning and storms (any storms not limited to Earth's atmosphere although he is also God of the Sky) so I will content that he could fight Gaia.

LOL.... what? Of course, this is just a debate. I have no idea why you're so worked up. LOL, of course you never said it didn't have a name, I was just telling you. Honestly, using that kind of logic is incorrect. Thor's mother was Fjorgyn, the embodiment of the Earth, but she wasn't a primordial goddess that ruled over the universe, she has no feats.

Also all I know about Typhon was that Zeus beat him back with thunderbolts which leads me to assume Thor could do the same. Although the fight is just Olympus and Asgard which would exclude Typhon and any Titan imprisoned in Tartarus.

I don't know what kind of assumption might have lead you to this? Zeus's weaker bolts have already been shown to be three times hotter than the sun. Thor's lightning can shatter mountains at best, while using his Thunderbolt Zeus can destroy the universe. Enormous difference there. So by your logic, Oceanus (who was neutral in the Titanomachy) would be here, and he stomps because his power over the waters encompass time and creation.

Any Asgardian that died in battle Thor's hammer could return to life (It's a fertility thing, y'know masculinity, fertility, life-granting).

Yes, and Odin died when he hung himself on Yggdrasil to gain the knowledge of the dead, then subsequently was revived. But in threads like this, one death equals out. Not to mention Zeus isn't dying in the first place.

Odin is the son of Bor and said to be his equal (yes even in Mythology Bor had the power to crack the planet in two) so not only does Odin come close to Poseidon's feats, he arguably matches/surpasses them. Odin also knows the magic needed to make enemies attacks sterile in battle. Should anything 'magical' be done to harm Odin it would double back on it's caster. I'm going to assume that includes a lot of Zeus' metaphysical prowess. He can also make any who take arms against him passive and docile. Another charm is his ability to shield all men who fight with him from harm (himself included) in times of war.

So how does cracking a planet mean banishing indestructible beings (the Gigantes are indestructible on the Earth due to Gaia protecting them, and some other giants such as Antaeus) all the way to hell with a flood of water that travels a distance, that described before, is equivalent to a thrown rock falling for nine days and only reaching Tartarus on the tenth? Again, Odin has shown nothing like that against beings like Zeus in Norse mythology, and has failed to do a thing before being swallowed whole by Fenrir. Draupnir is not capable of protecting Odin from world-destroying abilities, much less universe-destroying ones. Gods are not men.

I do believe that Zeus or Poseidon could stomp Thor. His showings against their dominions or foes they bested are rather weak. He did wrestle with time but was ultimately beaten. Sidenote: I thought Zeus only managed to imprison the Titans in Tartarus because of his many, many allies not that he just mystically banished them.

You're also forgetting Hades. At that point, Zeus lacked enough power to overwhelm Kronos, and required the power of his brothers Poseidon and Hades to do so. But at his prime, after that, he took the reins of all the powers of all those Titans banished to Tartarus, including Time.

So in short we have a spear which can and will kill anything it is set upon. A God of war who can shield his men from all harm, make his enemies attacks weak and harmless, make his enemies calm and docile, can turn spells and curses against their caster, and commands all the fallen warriors. A God of war who can strategize and slaughter. A God of storms who owns the Earth and Sky, whose hammer can return life to the fallen and who is accompanied by two goats who's rampaging threatens to destroy all of creation.

LOL, applying this type of logic in a fight like this is just a no-no. Again, none of these gods can utilize these powers against someone of Zeus's level. Tangjostnr and Tangrisnir, honestly? They would die in two seconds. The Cyclopes alone shake the Earth, the Hekatonchires threw fifty (or a hundred) rocks at a time individually; these rocks were the size of mountains. None of those abilities have any effect because Zeus can freeze everybody in time, leaving only Odin (who is the only Aesir beyond time) to fight everybody, and is subsequently killed immediately.

Honestly, if you want to play it your way, we have an omniscient person (Athena) who (or Zeus) has an indestructible shield (Aegis) and can turn any of the Norse gods into a Gorgon (like the Medusa) or worse, and if they (any of the Gods) enter their divine form, any mortal looking upon them will instantly be destroyed. And the Norse gods are all mortal (hence their deaths at Ragnarok). Ares (who is amongst the weakest of the gods) can turn day into night and crack the Earth and pierce the ears of others with his battle cry, and his weapons (fear, horror and terror) can strike down any of the Aesir.

What good is anything Zeus has done when his attacks are dulled and harmless and he lacks any wish to harm the army approaching?

What good are the abilities you mentioned when they have never been utilized against somebody of Zeus's calibre?

#12 Posted by Park (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: This isn't just one battle though, it's a war. War is specifically the domain of Odin and Tyr (little known fact Thor has also been regarded as a War god but, meh, I don't know enough about that part.) The charms I listed apply specifically to the war not to Zeus' power. While in raw power Zeus could probably just destroy Asgard, Odin has the exact power to make Zeus not want to fight. It's not a shield or something that Zeus can break or destroy with power, it's the solution to being outgunned or outfought which is something desperately needed in the war.

Also the charms don't have a calibre of being clause, they work on anyone (except for the ones that only work on women, those only work on women.)

As for your consistent, and somewhat compelling, argument that Odin, Thor, Tyr, etc etc all have deaths that are predetermined and therefore they aren't so impressive after all the deaths are just that, predetermined. It's not a matter of being overpowered or what have you. All the Norse gods know their own fate by the time the end rolls around so you have to wonder why they would go into that battle. It's because they, or at the very least Odin who is above time, have come to accept their roles in the cycle of Ragnorak. They can only die at their appointed time by their appointed counterparts.

Also the cyclopses shaking the Earth isn't quite as impressive as Thor being banned from the rainbow bridge because his chariot threatened everything in creation. And what's a hundred mountain sized stones to the three brothers who carved the Earth out of a giant and made the Heavens with it's skull?

Odin, Vili and Ve killed the primordial being(Ymir) and made it's corpse their playground. They encompass the very act of living (Though Will and Spirit) and have very much gone up against something on Zeus' level, killed it, and made it's bones their toys. That was when they were kids. All grown up, although Vili and Ve no longer play a center role in Asgard, Odin's strength and power have only continued to grow.

The part about the Olympians entering their divine form and turning mortals to stone and Asgardians being mortal because of their death isn't quite true because the Asgardians are a cycle in mythology. Once everything is torn apart by Ragnorak it begins again, never-ending stories are, at their core, the definition of immortality.

With all those Gods and all their powers I'm simply going to refer to Odin's abilities to make attacks useless and keep his soldiers unharmed. We can debate until we both die but we won't get anywhere unless one of us could be convinced by the other that a.) Odin's charms work because there was never an upper limit to their abilities or b.) Zeus' power is simply too immense for something as petty as norse magics to affect him.

Fire, vines, shades, earthquakes and floods won't mean anything until we can hash that out.

Although I have one question, can Hermes move faster than the speed of thought? Because Thalfi is said to be just a hair slower than thought and depending on who is faster that could be important.

#13 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Park said:

This isn't just one battle though, it's a war. War is specifically the domain of Odin and Tyr (little known fact Thor has also been regarded as a War god but, meh, I don't know enough about that part.) The charms I listed apply specifically to the war not to Zeus' power. While in raw power Zeus could probably just destroy Asgard, Odin has the exact power to make Zeus not want to fight. It's not a shield or something that Zeus can break or destroy with power, it's the solution to being outgunned or outfought which is something desperately needed in the war.

War is an aspect of domains of such like Zeus, Poseidon and Hades. Only a minor/major aspect. Pondor that for a moment.

There's nothing to stop Zeus from "willing to fight". Norse charms have failed before. They rely on the weakness of their opponent's will, and by sheer force of will, Zeus could overwhelm Asgard as a whole. Any of the Greek Gods could use similar spells, or simply turn the entire Norse armies into constellations.

Also the charms don't have a calibre of being clause, they work on anyone (except for the ones that only work on women, those only work on women.)

They can affect anyone, but they can also be resisted by anyone, depending on their will. The Greek gods' wills are far too powerful for charms like these to work.

As for your consistent, and somewhat compelling, argument that Odin, Thor, Tyr, etc etc all have deaths that are predetermined and therefore they aren't so impressive after all the deaths are just that, predetermined. It's not a matter of being overpowered or what have you. All the Norse gods know their own fate by the time the end rolls around so you have to wonder why they would go into that battle. It's because they, or at the very least Odin who is above time, have come to accept their roles in the cycle of Ragnorak. They can only die at their appointed time by their appointed counterparts.

Exactly. They are bound by Fate (the Norns). Zeus and the others aren't. In fact, starting from Homer's and above, Zeus controls fate.

Also the cyclopses shaking the Earth isn't quite as impressive as Thor being banned from the rainbow bridge because his chariot threatened everything in creation. And what's a hundred mountain sized stones to the three brothers who carved the Earth out of a giant and made the Heavens with it's skull?

You mean a realm, Midgard. Not the Earth of the Nine realms as a whole. So it's not so impressive. Besides, why are you comparing Thor to Cyclopes? By that logic, Zeus one-shots Freyja (well, he does).

Odin, Vili and Ve killed the primordial being(Ymir) and made it's corpse their playground. They encompass the very act of living (Though Will and Spirit) and have very much gone up against something on Zeus' level, killed it, and made it's bones their toys. That was when they were kids. All grown up, although Vili and Ve no longer play a center role in Asgard, Odin's strength and power have only continued to grow.

And what does this have to do with any of this? How is Ymir the power of the Titans? And this is Hesiod's only, Homer's crushes Ymir.

The part about the Olympians entering their divine form and turning mortals to stone and Asgardians being mortal because of their death isn't quite true because the Asgardians are a cycle in mythology. Once everything is torn apart by Ragnorak it begins again, never-ending stories are, at their core, the definition of immortality.

LOL, what? Their Divine Forms doesn't turn mortals to stone. It utterly disintegrates them. And in threads like this, a single death is instant elimination. For the definition of Immortality to the Greeks, someone like Zeus can't die. At the end of Ragnarok, it is only sometimes believed the Gods are reincarnated. Only one world returns after Ragnarok.

With all those Gods and all their powers I'm simply going to refer to Odin's abilities to make attacks useless and keep his soldiers unharmed. We can debate until we both die but we won't get anywhere unless one of us could be convinced by the other that a.) Odin's charms work because there was never an upper limit to their abilities or b.) Zeus' power is simply too immense for something as petty as norse magics to affect him.

Again, we need feats. If feats contradict statements, we go by feats. What is the best Odin can manipulate the wills of entire armies of? Einherjar-level beings, at best. Because Zeus's presence alone can just destroy all the wills of the Norse armies without anything further. not to mention Athena is omniscient, meaning that she will know what happens and can trigger the power of Olympus.

Fire, vines, shades, earthquakes and floods won't mean anything until we can hash that out.

LOL...... it's enchanted Greek fire. Harmful even to Divine Creatures.

Although I have one question, can Hermes move faster than the speed of thought? Because Thalfi is said to be just a hair slower than thought and depending on who is faster that could be important.

Many, almost all the Greek gods can move faster than the speed of thought. Hermes, being the god of speed and messengers, should be no exception.

Again, all we've discussed is the weakest Greek myth, Hesiod's. Bring in Homer's, Pelasgian and Orphic.

#14 Posted by slacker the hacker (7834 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Park said:

This isn't just one battle though, it's a war. War is specifically the domain of Odin and Tyr (little known fact Thor has also been regarded as a War god but, meh, I don't know enough about that part.) The charms I listed apply specifically to the war not to Zeus' power. While in raw power Zeus could probably just destroy Asgard, Odin has the exact power to make Zeus not want to fight. It's not a shield or something that Zeus can break or destroy with power, it's the solution to being outgunned or outfought which is something desperately needed in the war.

War is an aspect of domains of such like Zeus, Poseidon and Hades. Only a minor/major aspect. Pondor that for a moment.

There's nothing to stop Zeus from "willing to fight". Norse charms have failed before. They rely on the weakness of their opponent's will, and by sheer force of will, Zeus could overwhelm Asgard as a whole. Any of the Greek Gods could use similar spells, or simply turn the entire Norse armies into constellations.

Also the charms don't have a calibre of being clause, they work on anyone (except for the ones that only work on women, those only work on women.)

They can affect anyone, but they can also be resisted by anyone, depending on their will. The Greek gods' wills are far too powerful for charms like these to work.

As for your consistent, and somewhat compelling, argument that Odin, Thor, Tyr, etc etc all have deaths that are predetermined and therefore they aren't so impressive after all the deaths are just that, predetermined. It's not a matter of being overpowered or what have you. All the Norse gods know their own fate by the time the end rolls around so you have to wonder why they would go into that battle. It's because they, or at the very least Odin who is above time, have come to accept their roles in the cycle of Ragnorak. They can only die at their appointed time by their appointed counterparts.

Exactly. They are bound by Fate (the Norns). Zeus and the others aren't. In fact, starting from Homer's and above, Zeus controls fate.

Also the cyclopses shaking the Earth isn't quite as impressive as Thor being banned from the rainbow bridge because his chariot threatened everything in creation. And what's a hundred mountain sized stones to the three brothers who carved the Earth out of a giant and made the Heavens with it's skull?

You mean a realm, Midgard. Not the Earth of the Nine realms as a whole. So it's not so impressive. Besides, why are you comparing Thor to Cyclopes? By that logic, Zeus one-shots Freyja (well, he does).

Odin, Vili and Ve killed the primordial being(Ymir) and made it's corpse their playground. They encompass the very act of living (Though Will and Spirit) and have very much gone up against something on Zeus' level, killed it, and made it's bones their toys. That was when they were kids. All grown up, although Vili and Ve no longer play a center role in Asgard, Odin's strength and power have only continued to grow.

And what does this have to do with any of this? How is Ymir the power of the Titans? And this is Hesiod's only, Homer's crushes Ymir.

The part about the Olympians entering their divine form and turning mortals to stone and Asgardians being mortal because of their death isn't quite true because the Asgardians are a cycle in mythology. Once everything is torn apart by Ragnorak it begins again, never-ending stories are, at their core, the definition of immortality.

LOL, what? Their Divine Forms doesn't turn mortals to stone. It utterly disintegrates them. And in threads like this, a single death is instant elimination. For the definition of Immortality to the Greeks, someone like Zeus can't die. At the end of Ragnarok, it is only sometimes believed the Gods are reincarnated. Only one world returns after Ragnarok.

With all those Gods and all their powers I'm simply going to refer to Odin's abilities to make attacks useless and keep his soldiers unharmed. We can debate until we both die but we won't get anywhere unless one of us could be convinced by the other that a.) Odin's charms work because there was never an upper limit to their abilities or b.) Zeus' power is simply too immense for something as petty as norse magics to affect him.

Again, we need feats. If feats contradict statements, we go by feats. What is the best Odin can manipulate the wills of entire armies of? Einherjar-level beings, at best. Because Zeus's presence alone can just destroy all the wills of the Norse armies without anything further. not to mention Athena is omniscient, meaning that she will know what happens and can trigger the power of Olympus.

Fire, vines, shades, earthquakes and floods won't mean anything until we can hash that out.

LOL...... it's enchanted Greek fire. Harmful even to Divine Creatures.

Although I have one question, can Hermes move faster than the speed of thought? Because Thalfi is said to be just a hair slower than thought and depending on who is faster that could be important.

Many, almost all the Greek gods can move faster than the speed of thought. Hermes, being the god of speed and messengers, should be no exception.

Again, all we've discussed is the weakest Greek myth, Hesiod's. Bring in Homer's, Pelasgian and Orphic.

Okay is there any Mythology that can tale down the Greeks in a battle

#15 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker: This is Hesiod's, the weakest Greek myth. Chinese, Taoist, Egyptian and Hindu can stomp it. We still have Homer's, Pelasgian and Orphic to deal with, though.

#16 Edited by slacker the hacker (7834 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@slacker the hacker: This is Hesiod's, the weakest Greek myth. Chinese, Taoist, Egyptian and Hindu can stomp it. We still have Homer's, Pelasgian and Orphic to deal with, though.

Mind if I run some questions I'm a writer and I use a lot Supernatural/myth elements but I don't exactly have enough money to buy endless books. You seem to know a lot so may I ask?

#17 Edited by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker: Of course. Which questions would you like to ask?

#18 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

Greek mythology is more powerful than norse and it comes closest in terms of power, the other being homer, pelasgian and orphism are far above norse mythology. Even in greek mythology chaos can easily solo norse mythology, if we're talking about olympus vs asgard, olympus wins, Zeus being a universal buster (in his weakest version), hera creates a galaxy unnoticely, posedion being able to shake the universe. these three are more than enough to take on asgard, even Zeus alone can take them on (hesoid's version is debatable, the others defenitely stomp norse gods).

#19 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Olympus.

#20 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Park: You're online now, c'mon, get it up again.

@justleader said:

Greek mythology is more powerful than norse and it comes closest in terms of power, the other being homer, pelasgian and orphism are far above norse mythology. Even in greek mythology chaos can easily solo norse mythology, if we're talking about olympus vs asgard, olympus wins, Zeus being a universal buster (in his weakest version), hera creates a galaxy unnoticely, posedion being able to shake the universe. these three are more than enough to take on asgard, even Zeus alone can take them on (hesoid's version is debatable, the others defenitely stomp norse gods).

LOL.... we're discussing Hesiod's. So where would Chaos come from?

#21 Posted by Park (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Honestly after going over Greek Mythology with Kat this morning I've come around to agreeing the Olympus would win.

#22 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Park said:

@ShootingNova: Honestly after going over Greek Mythology with Kat this morning I've come around to agreeing the Olympus would win.

LOL, finally. Now what? Good debate. Who's Kat?

#23 Posted by D3athstroke (4350 posts) - - Show Bio

Olympus in a stomp

Zeus=Odin

Hercules>=<Thor

And Apollo can basically oneshot rest of the Asgard

And there are Pluto, Poseidon and Athena who is >>> Zeus

#24 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@D3athstroke said:

Olympus in a stomp

Zeus=Odin

Hercules>=<Thor

And Apollo can basically oneshot rest of the Asgard

And there are Pluto, Poseidon and Athena who is >>> Zeus

LOL..... almost every part of this post is wrong.

Zeus>>>>>>>>Odin.

Thor destroys Heracles.

Apollo doesn't really one-shot the rest of Asgard. Tyr and Baldr and so on can hold their own for a bit of time.

It's Hades, who isn't really an Olympian. Neither Poseidon nor Athena are even in Zeus's league, let alone power.

#25 Posted by Park (2977 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Now we'll have to find something else to argue about.

Very good debate.

Kat's my girlfriend, the one who loves mythology.

#26 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Park: LOL. Yeah.

#27 Posted by D3athstroke (4350 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@D3athstroke said:

Olympus in a stomp

Zeus=Odin

Hercules>=<Thor

And Apollo can basically oneshot rest of the Asgard

And there are Pluto, Poseidon and Athena who is >>> Zeus

LOL..... almost every part of this post is wrong.

Zeus>>>>>>>>Odin.

Thor destroys Heracles.

Apollo doesn't really one-shot the rest of Asgard. Tyr and Baldr and so on can hold their own for a bit of time.

It's Hades, who isn't really an Olympian. Neither Poseidon nor Athena are even in Zeus's league, let alone power.

Are we talking about comics or mythology ? because I was talking about comics

And btw Athena>>>>>>>Zeus in both

And if you are talking about mythology Apollo can solo whole Asgard as could most of the Olympians

#28 Posted by weaponx (1566 posts) - - Show Bio

I take it this is comic versions, correct?

#29 Posted by P0rtal (880 posts) - - Show Bio

What the hell is this nonsense about Asgard being superior in battle to Olympus? Its very much the opposite. Asgardians age and die, most Olympian top tiers do not. Zeus is immortal, needs no rest or sleep, Odin does. Olympus should win this. Odin is the wise Skyfather, Zeus is the brawler. He isn't known for his cunning, but he is a brute force type and will tank most of Odins best shots. If Thanos can tank Odin, You bet your ass Zeus can do so as well.

#30 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@D3athstroke said:

Are we talking about comics or mythology ? because I was talking about comics

I believe it's mythology.

And btw Athena>>>>>>>Zeus in both

And if you are talking about mythology Apollo can solo whole Asgard as could most of the Olympians

First of all, that's only in Atlantean myth, and only because Athena is their patron goddess. In Hesiod's myth, every Olympian ran from Typhon while Zeus stood and fought. In Homer's myth, Zeus can defeat all the other Olympians combined. In Orphism, Zeus swallowed everything and everyone, including every single deity and then subsequently had unity with them all, so he was the air, the earth, the sky, the gods and so on while in Pelasgian Zeus was the utter reigning god. Again, I want to see Athena demonstrate the ability to destroy a universe:

And now his thunder bolts would Jove [Zeus] wide scatter, but he feared the flames, unnumbered, sacred ether might ignite and burn the axle of the universe: and he remembered in the scroll of fate, there is a time appointed when the sea and earth and Heavens shall melt, and fire destroy the universe of mighty labour wrought. Such weapons by the skill of Cyclops forged, for different punishment he laid aside--for straightway he preferred to overwhelm the mortal race beneath deep waves and storms from every raining sky.

-- Taken from http://www.theoi.com/Heros/Deukalion.html

And that's the weakest version of Zeus.

And if you are talking about mythology Apollo can solo whole Asgard as could most of the Olympians

Apollo's power is more based on quotes rather than feats. But really, Apollo isn't soloing Odin.

@weaponx said:

I take it this is comic versions, correct?

You can take it in comic versions if you want, but from the OP's title, it appears to be mythology.

#31 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal said:

What the hell is this nonsense about Asgard being superior in battle to Olympus? Its very much the opposite. Asgardians age and die, most Olympian top tiers do not. Zeus is immortal, needs no rest or sleep, Odin does. Olympus should win this. Odin is the wise Skyfather, Zeus is the brawler. He isn't known for his cunning, but he is a brute force type and will tank most of Odins best shots. If Thanos can tank Odin, You bet your ass Zeus can do so as well.

LOL.... what? First of all, if this is comics, then Zeus stalemates Odin in Asgard because it's happened before.

If this is mythology, then Zeus soloes Norse mythology.

#32 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with Asgard is that their gods are mortal. They have enough firepower to challenge and even take some of the Olympians down, but eventually they will be overwhelmed seeing as the Olympians are immortal.

#33 Posted by weaponx (1566 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Yeah I guess so. I was confused because the title suggest standard mythology but the pictures implied comics so I wasn't sure...

#34 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Park: You're online now, c'mon, get it up again.

@justleader said:

Greek mythology is more powerful than norse and it comes closest in terms of power, the other being homer, pelasgian and orphism are far above norse mythology. Even in greek mythology chaos can easily solo norse mythology, if we're talking about olympus vs asgard, olympus wins, Zeus being a universal buster (in his weakest version), hera creates a galaxy unnoticely, posedion being able to shake the universe. these three are more than enough to take on asgard, even Zeus alone can take them on (hesoid's version is debatable, the others defenitely stomp norse gods).

LOL.... we're discussing Hesiod's. So where would Chaos come from?

Hesoid is the one who first said about chaos, Chaos is the beginning in hesoid's mythology, you know this, what's up with you LOL?

#35 Edited by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@justleader said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Park: You're online now, c'mon, get it up again.

@justleader said:

Greek mythology is more powerful than norse and it comes closest in terms of power, the other being homer, pelasgian and orphism are far above norse mythology. Even in greek mythology chaos can easily solo norse mythology, if we're talking about olympus vs asgard, olympus wins, Zeus being a universal buster (in his weakest version), hera creates a galaxy unnoticely, posedion being able to shake the universe. these three are more than enough to take on asgard, even Zeus alone can take them on (hesoid's version is debatable, the others defenitely stomp norse gods).

LOL.... we're discussing Hesiod's. So where would Chaos come from?

Hesoid is the one who first said about chaos, Chaos is the beginning in hesoid's mythology, you know this, what's up with you LOL?

What.......

Sorry, I meant Olympus. Chaos has nothing to do with Olympus.

@weaponx said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah I guess so. I was confused because the title suggest standard mythology but the pictures implied comics so I wasn't sure...

Take it either way.

@kingkronos said:

The problem with Asgard is that their gods are mortal. They have enough firepower to challenge and even take some of the Olympians down, but eventually they will be overwhelmed seeing as the Olympians are immortal.

Baldr is invulnerable except for mistletoe.

#36 Posted by niBBit (720 posts) - - Show Bio

A bit off-topic but i'm hearing crazy stuff on how strong Orphic Zeus is (if this is his strongest incarnation) and my question is can Zeus be beaten by other Mythology entities at the height of his power? if not witch 3 come close or can put a fight without embarrising themselfs.

#37 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@niBBit said:

A bit off-topic but i'm hearing crazy stuff on how strong Orphic Zeus is (if this is his strongest incarnation) and my question is can Zeus be beaten by other Mythology entities at the height of his power? if not witch 3 come close or can put a fight without embarrising themselfs.

Yes. Aten (in Atenism), Brahman, any Spiritual World being in Hinduism, and possibly Maha Vishnu could do so.

#38 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@acer51 said:

@Park: Yea Asgard wins, but Hercules is dangerous.

What? You're talking about Heracles/Herakles (Hercules is a figure of Roman mythology) when beings like Zeus are needed? Odin can one-shot him with Gungnir.

The Nemean Lions hide could prevent Gungnir from killing Hercules (who was made a full god post-poisoning as I am certain you are fully aware of)). That is my only point of contention in your most impressive, knowledgeable, post.

#39 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSwordsman said:

The Nemean Lions hide could prevent Gungnir from killing Hercules (who was made a full god post-poisoning as I am certain you are fully aware of)).

To the most extent, no, it doesn't. Gungnir is just as enchanted and can slice through any material. The chances of the Nemean Hide saving Herakles (again, Hercules is Roman, I don't know why we're calling him that) are slender. He can also get hit in the face and so on.

That is my only point of contention in your most impressive, knowledgeable, post.

Thanks.

#40 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@TheSwordsman said:

The Nemean Lions hide could prevent Gungnir from killing Hercules (who was made a full god post-poisoning as I am certain you are fully aware of)).

To the most extent, no, it doesn't. Gungnir is just as enchanted and can slice through any material. The chances of the Nemean Hide saving Herakles (again, Hercules is Roman, I don't know why we're calling him that) are slender. He can also get hit in the face and so on.

That is my only point of contention in your most impressive, knowledgeable, post.

Thanks.

I never read anything alluding to Gungnir being able to cut through anything. I could be mistaken though. Yeah but Herc could also turn his back so that the Spear hits the hide also. I am just saying that he could theoretically survive a thrown Gungnir. Herakles has always seemed not as cool looking/sounding a name imo.

#41 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSwordsman: The name sounds better to me, though.

TBH, Odin can destroy him by other means. Since he was the creator (or one of the creators) of time, he can also manipulate it. Herakles is defenseless against that, and Odin is free to strike him wherever he wants. Odin exists before time, so his actions would involuntarily be much faster than Herakles'.

#42 Posted by SirMethos (1392 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

Also, yes, Orphic Zeus is the most powerful Zeus in any Greek myth, and is truly beyond power or omnipotence. Zeus would solo Marvel, DC, Image, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, and virtually every other fiction verse.

I find it amusing that you keep repeating this: "beyond omnipotence."

Considering that it is just plain not true. There is no such thing as "beyond omnipotence."

Zeus could, at best, stalemate any omnipotent being.

#43 Edited by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos: I don't "repeat" it. I rarely even get into this matter.

See, that is the problem with mythology. Zeus is considered omnipotent, but:

Moros is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. There are approximately 16 (15 excluding Zeus) beings in Orphism that are above him in power.

Zeus swallowed his entire mythology, including 15 omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and transcendent beings, and everything else, then merged with it. So Zeus became everything in Orphism, the air, the earth, the sky, the seas, the universe, and the multiverse and whatever-verse and so on, as well as every drop of existence or non-existence, every human, beast, construct or deity, or any entity or force, and any that transcended them as well.

And there's levels of omnipotence. Omnipotence means you have total power and authority over (whatever). Universal omnipotence places you with total power and authority over the universe, but that doesn't necessarily make you have unlimited power and authority in a multiverse. Technically, universal can also refer to multiversal because it refers to all. The concept of "omnipotence" is not always supreme in mythology. That's just the way it is.

Also, "omnipotence" is a reference to unlimited power/authority. Orphic Zeus is beyond power or authority.

Are other Greek mythology fans that might explain it better in some way.

#44 Posted by SirMethos (1392 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: You've said it twice in this thread, and I've seen you say the same thing in other threads. So yes, you do repeat it.

Omnipotence is(as you've pointed out yourself) Unlimited/infinite Power. So your claim is, essentially, that Zeus has more than unlimited power. Not possible.

It's been a while since I've read up on the Orphic greek mythology, but I don't remember anything that outright says(or shows) any of them as "omnipotent".

#45 Edited by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Park said:

Also all I know about Typhon was that Zeus beat him back with thunderbolts which leads me to assume Thor could do the same. Although the fight is just Olympus and Asgard which would exclude Typhon and any Titan imprisoned in Tartarus.

I don't know what kind of assumption might have lead you to this? Zeus's weaker bolts have already been shown to be three times hotter than the sun. Thor's lightning can shatter mountains at best, while using his Thunderbolt Zeus can destroy the universe. Enormous difference there. So by your logic, Oceanus (who was neutral in the Titanomachy) would be here, and he stomps because his power over the waters encompass time and creation.

I just wanted to mention, normal lightning that occurs in nature is already about six times hotter than the surface of the sun as it is, so this is actually...not a feat at all, and lends one to think Zeus has weak lightning (which is not true).

#46 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos: And rarely. Again, I don't get into this matter too much, I use it more often for emphasis.

You have to understand, "infinite" or "unlimited" is not a boundary in mythology. There's a reason why some gods are considered "transcendent". Again, Zeus is beyond power, or authority.

Protogonos alone is ineffable, meaning he cannot be described. Saying somebody is omnipotent is already describing them.

Once more, Zeus would be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and is still beyond power, presence, knowledge or authority.

#47 Posted by ShootingNova (20386 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Park said:

Also all I know about Typhon was that Zeus beat him back with thunderbolts which leads me to assume Thor could do the same. Although the fight is just Olympus and Asgard which would exclude Typhon and any Titan imprisoned in Tartarus.

I don't know what kind of assumption might have lead you to this? Zeus's weaker bolts have already been shown to be three times hotter than the sun. Thor's lightning can shatter mountains at best, while using his Thunderbolt Zeus can destroy the universe. Enormous difference there. So by your logic, Oceanus (who was neutral in the Titanomachy) would be here, and he stomps because his power over the waters encompass time and creation.

I just wanted to mention, normal lightning that occurs in nature is already about six times hotter than the surface of the sun as it is, so this is actually...not a feat at all, and lends one to think Zeus has weak lightning (which is not true).

It's not the surface of the sun, it's the sun as a whole.

I never said Zeus has weak lightning, I said amongst Zeus's weakest bolts were those multiple times hotter than the sun.

#48 Posted by TheAcidSkull (19726 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm gonna go with greek gods, they do have some incredible feats

#49 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Olympus.

#50 Edited by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I meant most of them aren't.

@niBBit said:

A bit off-topic but i'm hearing crazy stuff on how strong Orphic Zeus is (if this is his strongest incarnation) and my question is can Zeus be beaten by other Mythology entities at the height of his power? if not witch 3 come close or can put a fight without embarrising themselfs.

That's a complicated question. Zeus is everything, so technically his opponents will also be Zeus.

But Brahman stomps Zeus with ease.

Aten should stalemate him at best or lose.

Spiritual world beings could give him a fight. Since they are beyond the material world. The material World in Hinduim can be equated to an Omniverse, and the Spiritual world makes the material world look like an illusion. And does not even exist. The Spiritual world inhabitants are infinite and they live on infinitely sized planets.

Maha Vishnu couldn't defeat Zeus except the omniversal version.

So conclusion: The spiritual world inhabitants, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, Srimati Radharani, Balarama, Narayana, Maha Sankarshana, Vasudeva, pradyumna, aniruddha. These are the only ones who can truly defeat a being on Orphic Zeus' level.

@SirMethos: The thing is, there are beings below Zeus who are Omnipotent. One example would be Protogonus. He has unlimited power. But Zeus is Protogonus, is Moros, is Poseidon, is Hades, is Hera.