• 80 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#51 Posted by King Saturn (223834 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@wardemon32 said:

@dum529001:

There is NO sciene to magic, at all. This guy walks around and creates planets and destroys them like it's nothing. No-one can just summon lightning out of no-where or make something basically indestructable. None of that is even close to real.

While in Flash case

  • If you do vibrate something fast enough it will phase through
  • If you go light speed you can time travel
  • An IMP IS real
  • If you are going faster enough you CAN run on water, just as a motorcycle
  • You should be able to create tornadoes with your hands to fly since it's air picking you up

In comic everything derives for the Speed Force which is energy. Just as we would need a signisicant source of energy to the point that we can go light speed(which is in Flash case). You give the man the power to manipulate the speed force he can either slow you down or speed you up. Kind of like a drug.

See there's a certain aspect of realism in his powers when in Odins there's about absolutely none.

Wait a minute... did you say that an Infinite Mass Punch is real ? Are you smoking that good Kush ?

Relativistic mass increasing effects as an object approaches lightspeed is true, even if there's not actual people who can do it.

An Infinite Mass Punch is not Real... people can not create such an attack. So why say it is... when you know it's not true ? I don't care about objects. People do not move faster than light or even light speed.

#52 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@@dredeuced:

As i said, Magic in the Marvel Universe is just science on a level that most can't fully comprehend. It has a little shrowd of mystery but its not completely nonsensical all the time like the Flash's powers.

Example: The incredible Hulk's meeting with Uatu, the watcher, in Tales to Astonish #73

#53 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

@@dredeuced:

As i said, Magic in the Marvel Universe is just science on a level that most can't fully comprehend. It has a little shrowd of mystery but its not completely nonsensical all the time like the Flash's powers.

Example: The incredible Hulk's meeting with Uatu, the watcher, in Tales to Astonish #73

Yeah, you're right, Doctor Doom and Dr. Strange don't actually do magic, it's just science. That's why Reed outright states that magic is something he doesn't comprehend because it doesn't adhere to the rules of any science he knows.

Magic is totally different from science in Marvel. Hulk thinking Uatu's technology was magic does not encompass the magical feats of every other magical character in marvel history.

#54 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@dredeuced said:

@king_saturn said:

@wardemon32 said:

@dum529001:

There is NO sciene to magic, at all. This guy walks around and creates planets and destroys them like it's nothing. No-one can just summon lightning out of no-where or make something basically indestructable. None of that is even close to real.

While in Flash case

  • If you do vibrate something fast enough it will phase through
  • If you go light speed you can time travel
  • An IMP IS real
  • If you are going faster enough you CAN run on water, just as a motorcycle
  • You should be able to create tornadoes with your hands to fly since it's air picking you up

In comic everything derives for the Speed Force which is energy. Just as we would need a signisicant source of energy to the point that we can go light speed(which is in Flash case). You give the man the power to manipulate the speed force he can either slow you down or speed you up. Kind of like a drug.

See there's a certain aspect of realism in his powers when in Odins there's about absolutely none.

Wait a minute... did you say that an Infinite Mass Punch is real ? Are you smoking that good Kush ?

Relativistic mass increasing effects as an object approaches lightspeed is true, even if there's not actual people who can do it.

An Infinite Mass Punch is not Real... people can not create such an attack. So why say it is... when you know it's not true ? I don't care about objects. People do not move faster than light or even light speed.

It is theoretically possible. If you could build a robot that could accelerate its fist to 99.9% lightspeed then it'd have absurd relativistic mass and would be an "infinite mass punch" -- note, that's just a nickname given to the move that Speedsters use. Superman's done it before but didn't have actual infinite mass. You're treating his statement too literally.

#55 Posted by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

IMP - narration says "hits with force of a white dwarf"...yet, that decidedly NOT what we see:

Hmmmm. I'm thinking...if the force of a white dwarf were being unleashed here, there would be no earth. At the end of the day, what we have is a white martian being knocked cross continental. Nothing we haven't all seen before by the likes of Sentry and Hulk. And the hit on Thawne, from Flash 148? Hmmm....does Thawne have any durability to speak of? So again...IMP, on panel, falls somewhat short of the claimed "white dwarf star".

#56 Posted by CosmosTyrant (482 posts) - - Show Bio

Why should we play by the nonsensical rules of DC's speed-force? Is that fair?

I understand that these are comicbook characters. I'm just saying.....

The speed-force makes no sense whatsoever!!!

It's just a PIS(Plot Induced Stupidity) cop-out that DC used to transform Flash from a lame character who runs really fast to a guy who makes no sense but is somehow invincible.

The Flash's powers are absolutely ridiculous because they follow no logic train of thought.

The only person i see in here the get's The Speed crap, i mean Force.

Infinite Mass Punches....Lmao.

Odin doesn't just control's magic, he can manipulate vast cosmic energy just like any other Sky-Father.

#57 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

IMP - narration says "hits with force of a white dwarf"...yet, that decidedly NOT what we see:

Hmmmm. I'm thinking...if the force of a white dwarf were being unleashed here, there would be no earth. At the end of the day, what we have is a white martian being knocked cross continental. Nothing we haven't all seen before by the likes of Sentry and Hulk. And the hit on Thawne, from Flash 148? Hmmm....does Thawne have any durability to speak of? So again...IMP, on panel, falls somewhat short of the claimed "white dwarf star".

Thawne has the exact same durability the Flash's have. The faster he goes, the more durable he is.

Superman has smashed people with planet+ durability with minimal collateral damage, I don't think you need to hold a double standard against Flash. Atleast Flash intentionally has the plot device of the Speed Force which reduces the relativistic effects he imparts on the environment.

#58 Edited by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

Flash wins.

In a race to get killed and murderROFLstomped

#60 Edited by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: call it what you want. At the end of the day, we're talking comic book feats in a comic book. It seems as if folks want to diminish some characters over others because, what? You think Flash's feats are somehow more believable? Seriously?

And so because Superman and Flash have smashed high levels with "minimal" collateral damage then that should mean, in those instances of said smashing, that the force of the white dwarf star...which, if there were any truth to it at all....which would be enough to destroy the planet...is somehow more believable because those characters are more...what? Science based? But the feats of magic based characters are somehow less believable. And of course, by that reasoning, we should all assume The Flash wins here? C'mon, man.

So, should I understand then, that you believe Wally could take out Odin?

#61 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

@malevolent1 said:

@dredeuced: call it what you want. At the end of the day, we're talking comic book feats in a comic book. It seems as if folks want to diminish some characters over others because, what? You think Flash's feats are somehow more believable? Seriously?

And so because Superman and Flash have smashed high levels with "minimal" collateral damage then that should mean, in those instances of said smashing, that the force of the white dwarf star...which, if there were any truth to it at all....which would be enough to destroy the planet...is somehow more believable because those characters are more...what? Science based? But the feats of magic based characters are somehow less believable. And of course, by that reasoning, we should all assume The Flash wins here? C'mon, man.

So, should I understand then, that you believe Wally could take out Odin?

No, I don't think Wally would beat Odin. I believe you and I have even had this discussion before. I was correcting incorrect assumptions about Flash lore because I know a lot about it. Odin's durability should be beyond Flash's ability to harm, his time manipulation should counter his kinetic control like Zoom, and his offensive output is clearly greater than anything Flash can tank. Flash's only shot at winning is phasing + atomization and that's sketchy.

I think the entire premise of the fight is pointless, though, because if the fight takes place in Pre-52 Speed Force then Flash is literally already dead, because that's how Wally's Speed Force worked. It's speedster heaven and if he stays too long he gets sucked in and disappears until the Speed Force let's him free again. Half of Wally's story arcs involve him doing something in the speed force and coming back (tossing Cobalt Blue in, tossing Savitar in, Surviving it against Kobra, blah blah). I think it's silly the OP thinks that Wally gets more powerful by being in the Speed Force.

About the collateral damage thing: I don't care if Flash's powers are more sciencey, and I don't even think they ARE more sciencey, it's hardly as if the Speed Force makes any practical sense relative to physics, no more than a magic Asgardian god or a dude who sucks up solar radiation. I just think it's silly to assume Wally's attacks aren't relativistically powerful because of a lack of the relativistic effects on his surroundings, as his Speed Force aura has always mitigated the collateral impact he has on the universe. Odin's got Galaxy level durability and destructive capability, Galaxies are billions upon billions of times more massive and "durable" than a white dwarf star.

I understand I post a lot in Flash threads and I come off as a Flash fanboy, but if you had actually read my posts in this thread you would realize that I said Odin already wins. It doesn't bother me that Wally loses a fight, but it doesn't stop me from correcting people who assume things inaccurately about The Flash.

#62 Posted by Bossmonster (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is the end all be all.

Inside the speed force, The Flash will not lose. Especially, if we're talking about Wally. The OP made this into a spite match. Odin would win on every other front, minus this one.
Under normal conditions, I really don't believe The Flash could even get him in there by himself. But with the battle taking place, Odin won't do anything, because The Flash doesn't have to let him.

Odin will be stomped in this fight, because he actually can't fight.

#63 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: Why do you think this? Wally has 0 feats inside of the speed force besides barely escaping it with his life.

#64 Edited by King Saturn (223834 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@dredeuced said:

@king_saturn said:

@wardemon32 said:

@dum529001:

There is NO sciene to magic, at all. This guy walks around and creates planets and destroys them like it's nothing. No-one can just summon lightning out of no-where or make something basically indestructable. None of that is even close to real.

While in Flash case

  • If you do vibrate something fast enough it will phase through
  • If you go light speed you can time travel
  • An IMP IS real
  • If you are going faster enough you CAN run on water, just as a motorcycle
  • You should be able to create tornadoes with your hands to fly since it's air picking you up

In comic everything derives for the Speed Force which is energy. Just as we would need a signisicant source of energy to the point that we can go light speed(which is in Flash case). You give the man the power to manipulate the speed force he can either slow you down or speed you up. Kind of like a drug.

See there's a certain aspect of realism in his powers when in Odins there's about absolutely none.

Wait a minute... did you say that an Infinite Mass Punch is real ? Are you smoking that good Kush ?

Relativistic mass increasing effects as an object approaches lightspeed is true, even if there's not actual people who can do it.

An Infinite Mass Punch is not Real... people can not create such an attack. So why say it is... when you know it's not true ? I don't care about objects. People do not move faster than light or even light speed.

It is theoretically possible. If you could build a robot that could accelerate its fist to 99.9% lightspeed then it'd have absurd relativistic mass and would be an "infinite mass punch" -- note, that's just a nickname given to the move that Speedsters use. Superman's done it before but didn't have actual infinite mass. You're treating his statement too literally.

Whenever you say something is Real... you can only take it Literally... either it's real or it's not. Now where in the world have you seen a Robot or Person move at Light Speed and use anything like a Infinite Mass Punch ? I am also unaware of Kryptonians existing in Real Life as well.

#65 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: edit-- you know what, you're absolutely right. Taking his statement literally it's obviously outrageous to assume that infinite mass punches exist. What I'm asking you to do is, instead of latching to semantics, understand the overlying point of the logic behind Wally's powerset. Talking about comic book powers in the real world is a derail that has nothing to do with the topic.

#66 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4925 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmfao. People thinking anything about Flash is remotely close to being real. SMH at this ridiculous thread that should've been locked as soon as it started. Odin wins, not even debateable.

#67 Edited by Equonox (964 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems like this is a TKO, given the technicalities of the pre-52 speed force. If this were new-52 it would be more interesting I think

#68 Posted by silverJuggernaut (132 posts) - - Show Bio

odin is a father of gods. we cant imagin what odin can do so to say he cant leave the speed force is stupid. odin stomps and plays around in the speed force for fun.

#69 Posted by thanobomb1124 (2010 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh odin

#70 Posted by Wardemon32 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Yes, an IMP is scientifically real. If there is something at light speed and it was to actually hit something it would work the same way an IMP works. We are not saying that kryptonians are real so stop taking it so literal. We mean that it is actually possible even though we have never done it. Reaching light speed isn't also "impossible". Yes in our time you may see it as impossible but technology does advance. Now if a robot were actually go FTL and pucnh something it would be an "IMP" and work the same way an IMP from Flash works.

You see, you can apply science to an IMP. You can't apply any realism of some sort to Odin powers?

But why are we even talking about if it's real or not? We should be talking about who wins. My stance is Flash wins.

#71 Posted by Wardemon32 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@malevolent1: Lamo since he's a galaxy buster he wins? Saying he went up against Galactus doesn't really prove ANYTHING. What can he do to Flash? I already listed how Flash wins, just waiting for someone to coutner it....

#72 Edited by leito (241 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

@king_saturn:

Yes, an IMP is scientifically real. If there is something at light speed and it was to actually hit something it would work the same way an IMP works. We are not saying that kryptonians are real so stop taking it so literal. We mean that it is actually possible even though we have never done it. Reaching light speed isn't also "impossible". Yes in our time you may see it as impossible but technology does advance. Now if a robot were actually go FTL and pucnh something it would be an "IMP" and work the same way an IMP from Flash works.

Reaching light speed is impossible for any object having a mass according to special relativity. It is not a technological issue.

#73 Posted by Equonox (964 posts) - - Show Bio

@leito said:

@wardemon32 said:

@king_saturn:

Yes, an IMP is scientifically real. If there is something at light speed and it was to actually hit something it would work the same way an IMP works. We are not saying that kryptonians are real so stop taking it so literal. We mean that it is actually possible even though we have never done it. Reaching light speed isn't also "impossible". Yes in our time you may see it as impossible but technology does advance. Now if a robot were actually go FTL and pucnh something it would be an "IMP" and work the same way an IMP from Flash works.

Reaching light speed is impossible for any object having a mass according to special relativity. It is not a technological issue.

This. Also, based on the theory of relativity an object approaching the speed of light gets converted to pure energy which means there wouldn't be physical contact anyway. The IMP is actually scientifically backwards...Flash's mass "approaches infinity" as he speeds up? No...that is the opposite of science fact.

#74 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@@dredeuced:

As i said, Magic in the Marvel Universe is just science on a level that most can't fully comprehend. It has a little shrowd of mystery but its not completely nonsensical all the time like the Flash's powers.

Example: The incredible Hulk's meeting with Uatu, the watcher, in Tales to Astonish #73

Magic is not science. That is why Quasar's powers don't work on it, Surfer and Galactus have problems against magic, becuase they don't understand it. If even cosmic awareness doesn't help and if it can change reality in every possible way, how is it science?

And this thread? Until Speed Force ever imprisoned or destroyed someone as powerfull as Odin, Flash has no chance.

#75 Edited by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that this thread hasn't been locked for ROFLCurbstomp / SPITE and even WORSE, that people are arguing "flashwinz1... !!" is attributable to the absolutely ridiculous level of flash tomfannery rampant on CV.

Anyway, ROFLCurbstomp / SPITE.

Flash gets close enough to Odin to attempt to speed steal. Realizes he just ****ed up, just as Odin's hand wraps tighter around his neck, and right before Odin turns him into a dust mite.

#76 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4925 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing worse than Flash Fan Induced Stupidity is Bat FIS.

#77 Edited by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

Right... Flash attempts to speed blitz Odin, throwing billions of punches that Odin barely comprehends, then Flash gets punched so hard he gets knocked out of the Speed Force.

#78 Posted by Wardemon32 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

HOW DOES ODIN STOMP!?!

#79 Posted by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio
#80 Posted by Wardemon32 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: This is a dumb battle since I'm the only one that explains why Flash wins and Odin loses. But, I'm going to get you to explain yourself. Do you think Flash would let Odin literally step on him? I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen...

#81 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

Then Speed Force doesn't exist in the Marvel Universe. What Max said applies to the DCU. Magic exists in both however.

Odin can stop time with a thought, merge an entire planets population into one being, with a thought, teleport, kill, and revive anyone with a thought. He can literally think the Flash out of existence or will him to lose the speed force.

#82 Edited by Dredeuced (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

The fact that this thread hasn't been locked for ROFLCurbstomp / SPITE and even WORSE, that people are arguing "flashwinz1... !!" is attributable to the absolutely ridiculous level of flash tomfannery rampant on CV.

Anyway, ROFLCurbstomp / SPITE.

Flash gets close enough to Odin to attempt to speed steal. Realizes he just ****ed up, just as Odin's hand wraps tighter around his neck, and right before Odin turns him into a dust mite.

Flash does not have to be close to something to speed steal it. Odin also shouldn't have the reaction time to contest with a full speed Wally. Odin would still win because he can just warp reality around him in a big enough area to eliminate Flash.