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#51 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1415 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: What are u talking about I have never had anyone complain like u an that other poster.

An if people did have a problem with then why did most people agree with me on the subject. An i admitted when I was wrong its really ignorant of u to go an attack me when I never insulted u the whole time we debated even when u went an got mad an insulted me. But go ahead im sure your gonna insult again when u have no reason to "BECAUSE IM THE REASON PEOPLE POST" An maybe not than most of these battle have been done 102x over. Or that when people get mad because they're actually being countered ie. Black Bolt & Medusa vs Storm & Black Panther so they ask mods to close it.

So if ur done being mad we could actually debate if u want.

#52 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3803 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: I'm not mad and it's no insult to state facts. You're making it too personal. There's nothing to debate. This particular battle is a mismatch. If you'd like to debate on one of the West vs DP forum ill be more than happy to oblige. But do try to use actual feats rather than hearsay platitudes. I'm not attacking you, I'm asking that you back up why you say or research it. If you need to ask then ask, but don't put something forward that incites more hearsay people spouting off "_______ wins cause they created the universe".

That's all.

#53 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1415 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: Nothing that I have ever said was hear say i usually use my phone to get on comic vine an u cant post pic on the mobile version.

An really saying ur insults are facts isnt adding on to ur insult.

In no way am i making this "personal" I dont know u an im.not taking anything u say to heart lol

#54 Edited by GhettoSwag (150 posts) - - Show Bio
#55 Posted by dondave (38636 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix

#56 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1415 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghettoswag: Wo there Tyra Banks calm down...... BUT U STILL GOT A BIG OL FOREHEAD

#57 Edited by Iampower (87 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghettoswag: you realize that is rachel and not Jean right? LOL dumb ass

#58 Posted by GhettoSwag (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@iampower: stop being a player hater you just don't understand my word play because my word play is so good! my meta4's all ready clearly blew ur mind!

#59 Edited by ZhuRong (4086 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix destroys the Milky Way galaxy along with Thor

The End.

#60 Edited by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

#61 Posted by theONEtaichou (1563 posts) - - Show Bio

B-b-but... its RKT!! He is beyond skyfather, like really beyond! He is more powerful than Odin! ODIN!!! And he has runes and he fought gods that sit above the shadows or something (a chair perhaps) that never appeared before the fight and lost and never appeared again and so RKT is "leally powerful"... he must win! Did I mention he is far beyond Odin?! ODIN!!

good day

#62 Posted by X_insignia1 (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix.

#63 Edited by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix but this isnt a mismatch, and lot of stuffs about Phoenix stated here are assumptions anyways.

#64 Posted by ChristhecomicPunk (106 posts) - - Show Bio

@zhurong said:

Phoenix destroys the Milky Way galaxy along with Thor

The End.

Despite never having shown anything that indicates she could just casually blow up a galaxy?

Phoenix but this isnt a mismatch, and lot of stuffs about Phoenix stated here are assumptions anyways.

This.

#65 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

This Phoenix could beat anyone who ever came from asguard, including rkt, Odin, hela, and THSAIS. and the elder gods, they wouldn't have a chance.

#66 Posted by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: At least in one reality, the Phoenix Force got devoured by Set, so its hard to point an inherent superiority,let alone being stated as a fact that none of them would have a chance.

#67 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4179 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@moonman78: At least in one reality, the Phoenix Force got devoured by Set, so its hard to point an inherent superiority,let alone being stated as a fact that none of them would have a chance.

In another reality she destroyed Dormammu in his realm, in another she destroyed the entire universe in a fit of rage, in another she saved the AOA timeline from being destroyed while holding back nukes, in another she created the entire universe and everything in it (Ultimate), in another universe she is regarded as a threat to the multiverse and her actions being an enigma even to the Living Tribunal. The point is none of these were a White Phoenix manifestation or cannon to 616, just like the example you give about Set. When even bringing that Set instance up, you neglect to mention that he added the power of the Phoenix to his own and became even more powerful and used that power to destroy Thor and his near indestructible hammer, and because of it's power could only be sealed away to fight for all eternity with a super amped Quasar. You also neglect to mention that it was a Rachel/Phoenix manifestation which means it was not a full powered Phoenix as Rachel never wielded the entire force and at most has only ever had half of the Phoenix that became Dark Phoenix, due to the creation of Maddie. We do know that all LT appearances are cannon due to his singular nature though and a dark Phoenix from some unknown world is beyond even his comprehension. White Phoenix is for the most part in charge of all Phoenix manifestations, we learn this when an alternate Vulcan enters the nexus of all realities and is allowed to tap the full Phoenix force by taking it from all avatars there and she simply cuts him off having lost none of her power or authority even though he possessed all the power that she allowed him to have, which would mean she is more powerful than any single or collective manifestation of a Phoenix in any of these realities. White Phoenix can command the power of every Phoenix from infinite realities.

#68 Posted by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio


In another reality she destroyed Dormammu in his realm

Thats new, when did this happen?? Would you have issue number or scans?

A weakened Odin, in at least one alternate reality, defeated Mephisto in his realm, in fact one shotted Mephisto in his realm.

That shows very little advatange for Phoenix

This has happened in 2 different realities.

Odin has The Mighty Thor # 16 handled enough energy to destroy the universe with all but one hand.

I still dont see any inherent superiority.

I want to see you substantiate that, i have never seen her be stated to be the creator of Ultimate reality but rather creator of sentient life, same being that defeated and imprisioned her.

That is just untrue, all Phoenix did in that reality was destroy all demons on Earth and wanted to return to Earth, LT showed up and he made Phoenix leave against her accord.

People are overbuying into "for the sake of the multiverse" statement,when it was never elluded she was a multiversal threat.

If anything it was the mystic imbalance set out of Earth that was the threat, in fact we have seen similar mystic balance actually threaten the entire Multiverse in Strange Tales # 146.

Thats now including how Odin, on his own endangered entire multiverse in his fight with Seth, something no Phoenix avatar has ever done, best you can show me would be Rachel vs Necrom destroying a solar system.

There has never been a Phoenix and Set fight in 616 , or Phoenix vs any Elder Gods for that matter to suggest any inherent superiority she might have, let alone being carved into stone that none of them would stand a chance against her.

Yeah after having devoured Phoenix, and Set should be powerful enough to destroy Thor hammer anyways, people weaker than him have done.

Again, i see no inherent superiority between Phoenix and an elder god, and at least one alternate reality that pretty clearly suggests otherwise.

Now you are nitpicking, Rachel has full Phoenix force every since Excalibur 13. She was merged with Phoenix just fine, even Jean showed up to explain that.

You are overselling a very small instance, it was never even remotely elluded that Dark Phoenix was beyond his comprehension, at least in terms of power as you are trying to say. All Living Tribunal was surprised was why Phoenix would kill its own host and the whole planet and washes the planet in white light.

Living Tribunal was surprised why Phoenix did that, not that Phoenix Force was some powerful entity beyond his understanding.

I still dont see any inherent Superiority against someone like Set or heck even a powerful Odin.

Odin was the creator of Asgardia, he has also handled enough energy to burn a reality with all but 1 hand. He has also created entire Asgardia + a whole additional planet battle world without even trying, threatned the multiverse in his fight in Seth, recreated entire galaxies in his fight with Seth.

Again point was i dont see any inherent superiority between Pheonix and Set, at least not something undoubtly carved into stone, the only thing i see to suggest one is superior to another is because one has ability manipulate the whole universe atom by atom, which is normally not seen thru Set.

Thats still very underwhelming proof to suggest , as if it was carved in stone, that Odin or Elder Gods would have no chance against Phoenix, which was the entire point of my argument.

#69 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4179 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

Thats new, when did this happen?? Would you have issue number or scans?

What if Wolverine became Lord of vampires?

I want to see you substantiate that, i have never seen her be stated to be the creator of Ultimate reality but rather creator of sentient life, same being that defeated and imprisioned her.

Ultimate Xmen 68 mentions it and it has never been reruted on panel in that universe.

I'm not bringing up those instances as proof of anything, I'm bringing them up to show that there are times in other realities where she is not devoured and that your bringing up Set is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with the White Phoenix that can use more power than the fraction that he took from Rachel.

You are overselling a very small instance, it was never even remotely elluded that Dark Phoenix was beyond his comprehension, at least in terms of power as you are trying to say. All Living Tribunal was surprised was why Phoenix would kill its own host and the whole planet and washes the planet in white light.

Living Tribunal was surprised why Phoenix did that, not that Phoenix Force was some powerful entity beyond his understanding.

How am I overselling it? To say he didn't know why she did something when he is supposed to be all knowing and all seeing is alluding to her actions being beyond his comprehension. When did I mention her power? I said her actions. You can't really take "for the sake of the multiverse" out of context when the LT is concerned. His job is to make sure things don't get out of control for the sake of the multiverse, if she posed no threat to the tapestry he is supposed to keep balanced he would not have come.

I still dont see any inherent Superiority against someone like Set or heck even a powerful Odin.

Odin was the creator of Asgardia, he has also handled enough energy to burn a reality with all but 1 hand. He has also created entire Asgardia + a whole additional planet battle world without even trying, threatned the multiverse in his fight in Seth, recreated entire galaxies in his fight with Seth.

Again point was i dont see any inherent superiority between Pheonix and Set, at least not something undoubtly carved into stone, the only thing i see to suggest one is superior to another is because one has ability manipulate the whole universe atom by atom, which is normally not seen thru Set.

Thats still very underwhelming proof to suggest , as if it was carved in stone, that Odin or Elder Gods would have no chance against Phoenix, which was the entire point of my argument.

There is an inherent superiority because Set, only became as powerful as he did in that reality by adding a small piece of her powers to his, and she is inherently superior to Odin because alone without the Odin force which is a mixture of power from various sources, he can't do what you mentioned above, and inherently neither can Thor. Her power is all her own. By the definition of inherent, she is superior.

Anyway, White Phoenix wins this battle we can both agree on that. Considering that Thor can't even handle 1/5 of a 616 Phoenix manifestation in hosts that can't even fully grasp the power they wield, and that the Odin force is only the combination of 3 Asgardians, now added to Thor. There is no way he nor his father should be a match for a Phoenix manifestation that has access to the combined might of every Phoenix in an infinite number of realities.

#70 Posted by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio

What if Wolverine became Lord of vampires?

Thanks, although to be fair in the same issue we see Dormammu , of that reality, genuinely being scared of the power X-vampires have now coveted, the power of Chthon.

But essentially killing him ease, in what seemed like 1 grand move, in Dark Dimension, that was genuinely impressive.

Ultimate Xmen 68 mentions it and it has never been reruted on panel in that universe.

I dont really read Ultimate X men, but i did check this issue out i dont see anywhere that says Phoenix created everything in the universe.

I found 2 passing comments about Phoenix and those were:

"Phoenix may well have been the spark that brought life to the universe"

So like i said her being somehow linked to life and not the creation of the whole universe is mentioned, even then done so in a uncertain tone "may well have been" as opposed to "phoenix force did"

The second mention i found in the issue was

Neither does anything to suggest she was the creator of the universe though, am i missing something here?

I did check the issue twice, could you point to the what panel you interpreted as Phoenix having created everything in the universe?

I'm not bringing up those instances as proof of anything, I'm bringing them up to show that there are times in other realities where she is not devoured and that your bringing up Set is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with the White Phoenix that can use more power than the fraction that he took from Rachel.

Ok i am not sure i get what you are trying to say, i never said Set devoured Phoenix in every reality which is something you seem to be accusing me of saying.

I dont see how brining Set is irrelevant, when this is how the conversation started

------------------------------------------------------

This Phoenix could beat anyone who ever came from asguard, including rkt, Odin, hela, and THSAIS. and the elder gods, they wouldn't have a chance.

-------------------------------------------------------

And my reply to it was

------------------------------------------------------

@moonman78: At least in one reality, the Phoenix Force got devoured by Set, so its hard to point an inherent superiority,let alone being stated as a fact that none of them would have a chance.

------------------------------------------------------

And the point actually stand its hard to even show Phoenix being unquestionably superior to elder gods and Odin, let alone be stated as a fact that none would so much as stand a chance against her.

How am I overselling it? To say he didn't know why she did something when he is supposed to be all knowing and all seeing is alluding to her actions being beyond his comprehension. When did I mention her power? I said her actions.

Lets see.

How i believe you are overselling the feat, because the action from Phoenix, for whatever reason simply surprised Living Tribunal, and the issue mention the same action itself surprised the Phoenix Force.

So all that essentially happened was

"Even the Living Tribunal cannot discern why the Phoenix did what it did today"

Which should in all honesty translate as: LT was surprised why Phoenix would kill its own host, just so she can destroy the demons and mystic unbalance on Earth.

It further says "The Tribunal - and perhaps even the phoenix- will never know"

You really are making a big deal of a passing comment on panel.

That bolded part would have been correct if Living Tribunal had actually come for the Phoenix, he didnt. He came to destroy Earth.

"Living Tribunal senses the mystic balance is restored"

"The Tribunal would have destroyed the entire orb now there is no need"

So LT never showed up their for the Phoenix but because there was a mystic unbalance on Earth.

Its pretty clearly substantiated in Marvel Handbook 2006 just as well.

There is literally nothing Phoenix Force did there that would even hint her power being anywhere close to multiverse, and of course we know Phoenix force power is merely universal anyways its been substantiated by about 5 bios.

There is an inherent superiority because Set, only became as powerful as he did in that reality by adding a small piece of her powers to his

I dont understand what you are trying to say here, Set was already pretty damn powerful, Dr. Doom pretty clearly states Rachel has to employ the full power of the Phoenix Force if she was to survive, something originally Rachel disagrees.

You also keep saying small fraction of her power, when Set devoured half of her power, and even that was only because Thor called upon Odin name to call back his hammer, from inside Set, to create the energy backlash.

If you missed that its here on panel

She would have been devoured, completely had Thor not intervened.

Neat wordplay, not sure how it helps.

All this translates to Odin without Odin Force would be inferior to Phoenix, which is of course true.

With Odin force though, while i honestly believe Phoenix force is superior, it becomes pretty hard to substantiate, given Odin has just as many if not better feats than the force.

Anyway, White Phoenix wins this battle we can both agree on that. Considering that Thor can't even handle 1/5 of a 616 Phoenix manifestation in hosts that can't even fully grasp the power they wield, and that the Odin force is only the combination of 3 Asgardians, now added to Thor. There is no way he nor his father should be a match for a Phoenix manifestation that has access to the combined might of every Phoenix in an infinite number of realities.

I agree White Phoenix would win, thats not a problem.

I however disagree that White Phoenix has access to the combined might of every Phoenix, just because she was able to cut off Vulcan from Phoenix Force, it only shows Jean as white phoenix can cut off people connection to Phoenix Force, which we already knew given Endsong and her being able to actually reclaim Phoenix force , or at least a part of a broken Phoenix force from Emma.

Odin power is not just the combination of 3 Asgardian, thats just how the power was created. He gains further power from both Rune and World Tree, which is why he had to sacrifice a eye and Rune is as always mysterious in nature same with the World Tree which is sort of nexus on 9 worlds.

And its very hard to suggest RKT or someone like Set and Odin cant fight Phoenix, when we have seen evidences to the contrary. Set being able to devour Phoenix being one, and Odin on panel feats being other.

RKT is also significantly superior to Set, given bio makes it pretty clearly its his most powerful version (most powerful version of Thor) and we have at least 1 version, when he was merged with power of Atum, where he rather casually tore apart Set heads in his own realm.

#71 Edited by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghettoswag: you dummie you dont even read comics welcome to the vine read it ghettoswag and whos name is that phoenix wins

#72 Edited by Franklin_richards (9 posts) - - Show Bio

u people are obviously Thor obsessive that you do not want Thor to loose I bet all of you also said rkt could beat adult franklin Richards where to you hey your information from honestly you make me sick when u can't except you hero is out of their league damn get off Thor dick u dick heads

#73 Posted by Parryboy (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

Haha

This should be locked

#74 Edited by Princess_Kenny (40 posts) - - Show Bio

White Crown Phoenix can rape Thor, Hercules, Odin and Zues at the same time without breaking a sweat.

#75 Edited by Raffels (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

Why has no one posted this scan one of her best feats? Healing the timeline and reshaping the universe in the palm of her hand….she can do anything to the universe.

#76 Posted by Z3RO180 (6633 posts) - - Show Bio

@franklin_richards: God find the nearest phalic shaped object and ram it where the sun don't shine.