Who wins this all out battle between these Magical and Cosmic Forces ? Odin and Thor versus Silver Surfer and Surtur. Random Encounter. Fight takes place in Olympus. Standard Levels for Everyone.
Odin and Thor vs Silver Surfer and Surtur
@pooty: Question for you: in the feat below, is it possible for Wally to punch the person he is standing in front of?
I mean, obviously, he isn't punching anyone. But aside from the fact that Wally is not a cold hearted person, and he has no reason to, what is keeping him from punching theperson in front of him?
@malevolent1 said:
@pooty: Question for you: in the feat below, is it possible for Wally to punch the person he is standing in front of?
I mean, obviously, he isn't punching anyone. But aside from the fact that Wally is not a cold hearted person, and he has no reason to, what is keeping him from punching theperson in front of him?
1) yes wally can hit those people.
2) Since he is not fighting anyone there is no reason for him to punch them. What is the reason you're getting at?
@pooty: What Wally is experiencing above is called time dilation. The closer to the speed of light we move, then the slower everything around us appears to be moving.
We already know the Surfer is capable of blitzing opponents at light speed, although there is no actual on panel feat of him punching a character at faster than light speeds:
In any of the feats indicated, is the Surfer punching anyone? No. Is he capable? Absolutely. In each of these feats, who is beyond light speed. Against Thanos, he is millions of times light speed.
But what about below? What do you see?
This is Mighty Thor 193. Thor and the Surfer both failed to do much but piss Durok off, each in a straight up fight. Norrin gambles and does the only thing he thinks will work. While struggling with Durok, the Surfer goads his board past the light speed and time travel barrier. Durok finally passes out unconscious due to temporal buffeting. He couldn't handle fighting the Surfer past light speed much less travelling time. Many chalk this up to a travel feat. However, when a character "travels" time, he's not covering points in space, but points in time. The Surfer is clearly able to think and move and react within that frame...even engage in combat after having crossed the time travel barrier as these scans indicate. Depictions of some time travel (a la passing the light speed barrier) shows the travelers on ships moving that fast as frozen in time. This is often rectified by "hyperspace" which allows, for example, characters on a ship in hyperspace to react with one another in real time. Surfer did not use hyperspace on this one, and Durok suffered the effects. I'd say time dilation on this one is pretty much down to nil.
@freefa11 said:
@malevolent1 said:
@pooty: What Wally is experiencing above is called time dilation. The closer to the speed of light we move, then the slower everything around us appears to be moving.
Relativistic time dilation would actually have the opposite effect, with the person moving near light speed experiencing less time than others. This is why in the Twin Paradox, the twin shot off into space in a rocket stays the same age while the one stuck back on earth gets older and older.
Of course, Special Relativity properly applies to inertial frames of reference; every time Wally accelerates (i.e. changes his velocity or the direction he's moving in), Special Relativity would fail to apply.
Back on topic though, Odin has fought the Surfer, along with the Infinity Watch, and swatted him like a fly. Even without Thor, the Surfer's presence is meaningless; he cannot harm Odin.
On the other hand, Thor has actually harmed Surtur. Moreover, I believe Surtur is actually a notch below Odin. He's close enough to make a good fight of it, but even with the Twilight Sword, which acted as a perpetual amp, Surtur had some difficulty with Odin. In another instance, Thor was empowered with the Odin Force and defeated Surtur himself. I also believe Surtur was beaten by Odin in his first appearance, though that was admittedly long before Simonson turned him into the menace we recognize today.
Basically, I feel Odin takes a majority over Surtur, and can easily mop up the SS when he's done (or just swat him beforehand; for that matter, the collateral damage alone from a full-scale Odin vs. Surtur battle could potentially take the Surfer out).
Correct. We are actually saying the same thing. However, I think Mark Waid did a great job of trying to apply a theoretical application to a comic book feat. A simpler illustration: when Barry Sanders ran the football and he evaded tacklers, he was quick enough to stop on a dime, re-direct and essentially make tacklers almost look like they were standing still. Wally, approaching the speed of light essentially made everyone look as if they were statues.
On topic: I agree that Odin is well beyond the Surfer. I think most folks know that. What I'm saying is, typical comic PIS a non consideration, Thor and Surfer are on the same level of power. Because of Surfer's speed, Thor is literally a non factor. I think I already mentioned in a previous post above that there also finally comes a point where speed is a non factor, as in the case of someone like the Surfer and Odin, or better example, like Thanos and Surfer. Surfer is faster than Thanos (although...some argue Thanos has FTL reflexes...topic for a whole nother discussion...), yet the vast difference in speed makes no difference to someone with that power. Same with Odin and Surfer. Matter of fact, I thin I already mentioned Odin as close to Galactus in power. However, once Thor is out of the picture, which he would be against someone of a similar power set who is way, way faster than him, that leaves Odin against the Surfer and Surtur. Surfer has been shown to augment those with magical abilities, so while he may be a non-factor against Odin, what about an amped Surtur?
From Defenders 8. Strange and Surfer combine the mystic and the magical.
Above is another example of the power cosmic being joined with mystical powers. Why prevents the Surfer from augmenting Surtur's power?
@pooty: Is that in his character? Great question.
@malevolent1 said:
@pooty: Is that in his character? Great question.
@malevolent1: Your scans prove what we already know. That Surfer is very fast. Thor has dodged and deflected his blast many times before. So thor has proven he can react to the speed of SS blast which i assume is about light speed. SS can travel faster then his beams, I admit. but only in one of those scans does he actually use his travel speed to blitz an opponent. Is it possible for SS to blitz Thor? Yes. Is it likely? I say No.
Log in to comment