" Oh look, its @TheJuggernutHumper again!!!! Hey @JuggyHumpy, I think we should change your name to @CyttyHumpy here, cauz that's obviously what you're doing.
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @MrRagePants: You have a rage in your pants ? Pervert. "
Yea he may be a pervert but at least he's a man, a real man with tools of manhood.
You're just a little p@ssy who can't accept defeat in debates. Now go cry over Juggernut's dead body.
@MrRagePants said:
" @TheJuggernautpunch:
This thread was suppose to be a win, your ignorance and trash selection of words made this into garbage.
You cannot understand a simple YES or NO question.
You cannot accept defeat to Juggernaut or any beings related to him.
I countered your arguments 3 times while you provided none.
You are beyond help and this thread is now... in your own words ... FAIL!
"
That's exactly what I wanted to say. When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be awesome, but when I saw that it was @TheJuggernutHumper who created it I knew it was gonna suck in the end due to his inability to stop humping over everything that has to do with Juggernut. When you're debating with @TheJuggernutSucker you're debating with a troll with Portraits of Cain Marko hanging on his bedroom windows. And yes, he is beyond help. @TheJuggernutpunch was too wet for Juggernut, is too wet for Juggernut, and will always be too wet for Juggernut. There's nothing we can do about it. So i say lets leave this thread and hope that God can save his soul.
So far you have only proven that your entire existence on this forum is AN EPIC FAIL.
How did I prove that I'm an epic fail? By owning you and making you cry in debates? By posting actual scans to back up my claims? By showing everyone just how....stupid that you are because you don't know what a demons is? I'm thoroughly confused by your statement. I feel sorry for you. That's all I can say for now.
@Danilo018
said:
You claim that you can back up your statements with scans. "
Yep. Good scans too, as seen by people who actually have a functional brain. My scans destroyed your argument, and you know it. Calling me a troll and epic fail doesn't change the fact that you were destroyed.
@Danilo018
said:
So do a favor to yourself and other members of Vine and delete your accout. Since so far you only have 207 EPIC FAILS.
If I failed then at least I only failed 207 times, while YOU FAILED.....860 TIMES. Do the math big boy.
@Danilo018 said:
. So do a favor to yourself and other members of Vine and delete your accout.
Yea and I have an answer to that. NO. And there's not one damn thing you can do about it. If you talk crap then don't be scared if people humiliate you. That's the way life is.
@Danilo018 said:
Face it only thing that you were doing for now is FAILING, FAILING, FAILING... FAILING.
1). Failing? Nah. "Owning a troll" is a better description to what I have been doing.
@Danilo018 said:
So it must be some pathetic atempt to downgrade me.
Trust me, if I needed to actually try to downgrade someone, it wouldn't be against a pathetic retard like you who does not even know what a "realm" means.
@Danilo018 said:
AND ABOUT OWNING: YOU PATHETIC TROLL YOU COULDN'T EVEN OWN AN IDIOT WITH IQ OF 30 IN DEBATE !!! AND YET YOU THINK YOU OWNED ME !? YOU'RE IN BIG DELUSION TROLL.
Read my posts with a clear head. And you'll see just how stupid you are, and just how bad I owned you. As for me not being able to own "an idiot with an IQ of 30", you're a LOT worse than that.
@Danilo018 said:
Also can you tell me why have you come with that epic stupidity about some MMA threads which had Brandon Lee in them ? Do you see what you just wrote ? Brandon Lee in MMA, bravo !!! What the hell will Brandon Lee do in MMA thread ? I have never seen any Brandon Lee threads in any forums on Vine, and DUMB-ASS if you use the search function you'll see that in all forums Brandon Lee thread doesn't exist, not single one of it !!! So it must be some pathetic atempt to downgrade me.
Save the bullsh!t for the birds. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
Guys I really don't want this topic to get locked by a mod because it should be fun to logically debate here. If the swearing gets out of hand a mod is bound to come in here and lock it.
@fallenangel5991 said:
" @Prince CortSether: You are by far the most knowledgable debator here when it comes to demons. "
I made-up the term Megaverse ? Well that's some serious charge. But let's see if Megaverse is really a term made by me
So dumb-idiot can you understand what is stated in text from Hanbook ?
@Danilo018: Yo I was the one who wrote this paragraph. Yes there is a megaverse but it's still part of the Marvel Universe. So Cyttorak influencing his avatar across so called megaverses means f@ck because it's all still part of Marvel.
On a sidenote, call my boy @fallenangel5991 a dumb-idiot again and I'll rip you apart limb from limb. Now piss off. bich. "
man, i never seen danilo use wordy dirties before.... someone mustuv really gotten to him.
i still want to find out who banished Cyttorak and the rest of the Octessence from Earth, like:
Shuma-Gorath was banished by Sise-Neg
Oshtur banished the Asura and the Seraphim
Lucifer and his angels banished the N'Garai
Demogorge driving away Set and Chthon
also, when was the Octessence banished from Earth? if i'm not mistaken it was around thousands of years ago.. Set and Chthon were driven away billions of years ago, Shuma-Gorath was before the dawn of man.. so who do you think banished the Octessence? can it be the Demogorge? the Vishanti? or a guild of powerful sorcerers? i really don't know..
" i still want to find out who banished Cyttorak and the rest of the Octessence from Earth, like:
Shuma-Gorath was banished by Sise-Neg
Oshtur banished the Asura and the Seraphim
Lucifer and his angels banished the N'Garai
Demogorge driving away Set and Chthon
also, when was the Octessence banished from Earth? if i'm not mistaken it was around thousands of years ago.. Set and Chthon were driven away billions of years ago, Shuma-Gorath was before the dawn of man.. so who do you think banished the Octessence? can it be the Demogorge? the Vishanti? or a guild of powerful sorcerers? i really don't know..
"
at earlier times, earth "realm" was the middle of the marvel universe... it still is in a sense now. but there are things never mentioned bc stans wants to keep the "super powerful" anonymous. they say that even before LT there was the omnipotent being called Nemesis.... this is the embodiment of the infinity gems which scattered itself. but she couldn't have been the one to banish him.... so it was probably the living tribunal or worst..... STAN LEE!!!
" i still want to find out who banished Cyttorak and the rest of the Octessence from Earth, like:
Shuma-Gorath was banished by Sise-Neg
Oshtur banished the Asura and the Seraphim
Lucifer and his angels banished the N'Garai
Demogorge driving away Set and Chthon
also, when was the Octessence banished from Earth? if i'm not mistaken it was around thousands of years ago.. Set and Chthon were driven away billions of years ago, Shuma-Gorath was before the dawn of man.. so who do you think banished the Octessence? can it be the Demogorge? the Vishanti? or a guild of powerful sorcerers? i really don't know.. "
also... i want to mention, that cyttoraks 1st appearance in the earth realm was "thousands of years ago"..... he could have existed even way before chthon or even shuma. bc if you think about time and causality paradox, siseneg is from the future, yet he recreated the universe bringing life to galactus and all the other fundamental abstracts into existence.
Guys, don't fight please, I will replicate all erroneous points of Corth, who has distorted the information for his worship exacerbated by Shuma.
I'm a little busy at work and the post is somewhat large, I ask you have a little patience and please avoid attacks between yours. For the mods, I ask they not block this threat because it is necessary to clarify all about the real facts of Shuma not only for Corth but the whole Vine.
@TheJuggernautpunch: @Danilo018: @fallenangel5991:@chunjacktao: Hey kiddies... Now I don't care who started the name calling first because it's obvious that mature debating has taken a swan dive out the window, not only am i impressed at the level of colourful words used and how many times you can question each others IQ in one thread...yes that was impressive, it is more the complete and obvious blindness to the rules in general and of course that awesome flag button that you could have used at any point to inform a mod of someone breaking the rules, which would have ended in that person getting a warning rather then all four of you. Well done for taking this debate the way you did. I apologise to the battle forum users who give a damn about these type of thread and if anyone wishes it unlocked please feel free to PM me.
Guys seriously, no name calling no matter how much you disagree! I highly doubt the mods will unlock this thread again if it indeed gets out of hand once more.
How did I prove that I'm an epic fail? By owning you and making you cry in debates? By posting actual scans to back up my claims? By showing everyone just how....stupid that you are because you don't know what a demons is? I'm thoroughly confused by your statement. I feel sorry for you. That's all I can say for now.
Yep. Good scans too, as seen by people who actually have a functional brain. My scans destroyed your argument, and you know it. Calling me a troll and epic fail doesn't change the fact that you were destroyed.
If I failed then at least I only failed 207 times, while YOU FAILED.....860 TIMES. Do the math big boy.
Yea and I have an answer to that. NO. And there's not one damn thing you can do about it. If you talk crap then don't be scared if people humiliate you. That's the way life is.
1). Failing? Nah. "Owning a troll" is a better description to what I have been doing.
Trust me, if I needed to actually try to downgrade someone, it wouldn't be against a pathetic retard like you who does not even know what a "realm" means.
Read my posts with a clear head. And you'll see just how stupid you are, and just how bad I owned you. As for me not being able to own "an idiot with an IQ of 30", you're a LOT worse than that.
Save the bullsh!t for the birds. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Now run away before I embarrass you even more. "
In this reply of yours there is nothing considering the topic. So that proves how valid debater you are. Also you haven't proved anything you claimed and you were simply twisting the words from scans, but you were cought in a lie and proved wrong.
I made-up the term Megaverse ? Well that's some serious charge. But let's see if Megaverse is really a term made by me
So dumb-idiot can you understand what is stated in text from Hanbook ?
@Danilo018: Yo I was the one who wrote this effing paragraph. Yes there is a megaverse but it's still part of the Marvel Universe, as shown by the handbook you copied above. Now read your post again and hopefully you'll realize by now what a f@cking liar you are when you say that Cyttorak's influence goes beyond the Marvel Omniverse. So Cyttorak influencing his avatar across so called megaverses means f@ck because it's all still part of Marvel.
On a sidenote, call my boy @fallenangel5991 a dumb-idiot again and I'll rip you apart limb from limb. Now piss off. bich. "
And you seriosly think that I'll belive that you work with Marvel and that you actually wrote the paragraph from 21st Handbook ? Hahaha you made me laugh. You are even bigger lier than your boy fallenangel. You don't know that Megaverse is bigger grouping than Multiverse and you claim you wrote something ?! You didn't even understood the text you claimed you wrote IT SAYS THAT MEGAVERSE IS COLLECTION of ASSOCIATED REALMS FROM DIFFERENT MULTIVERSES. And word "boy" which you used to refere to fallenangel is so gay. So what are you actually a gay-comp-nerd pretending to be tough ? And about insults you said to me, well you know my answer to them bit..
P.S. I have never stated that Cyttorak influence goes beyound Omniverse (larger grouping than the megaverse). And that statement proves that you're a liar and that you have troubles with understanding the simple text.
@Danilo018: I live at Montry Park, I'll wait for you there. Come fuk with me if you dare. My name is Freddy Brunes. Then we'll find out who's the comp-nerd.
" There is nothing to contradict Kaluu's statement. It was stated on-panel and was not contested at all by Doctor Strange. There is no reason to believe that Kaluu wasn't 100% correct. It's only hyperbole if there's nothing to back it up, but we've already seen what Shuma-Gorath could do and Kaluu knows well of Mephisto and Satannish already.
Wrong, you can not define the right and wrong in terms of my interpretation and much less when it can have more than one interpretation of a single event. I can interpret the Kaluu’s opinion was entirely circumstantial exaggeration; due he was sooo weak in Shuma’s realm. You can not prove as true a metaphor or hyperbole of someone under that state of weakness. You can only refute me if you have a scan where Kaluu has fought with Sattanish and Mephisto to say he does have knowingly. There is not explicit and implicit. Do you have any scan? If he does have, is true, if not is a metaphor and hyperbole circumstantial of him.
@Prince CortSether
said:
""I never contested that Mephisto/Satannish were > Cyttorak. But it seems to me like you're implying the possibility that Mephisto/Sattanish are > Shuma-Gorath. If that's the case, you have a hard battle ahead of you trying to prove this."
False, I never ask you such a thing, I just wanted to say that both Mephisto and Sattanish are inferior to Cyttorak too. The Kaluu’s hyperbole and metaphor not mean a feat that demonstrates any inferiority of them against Shuma Gorath. Kaluu never fought with them before.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" "They just meant that they wouldn't go confront Shuma-Gorath on their own. Strange had to do the saving because he was the sorcerer supreme. Just because they weren't fighting Gorath directly doesn't mean they weren't helping Strange at all. Stephen has always been able to use the magical artifacts of the Vishanti, even when Sise-Neg was at the end of his journey the Eye of Agamotto was working for him.
False, The Vishanti never went with Strange to confront Shuma Gorath in its realm because they did not want intervene again, leaving Strange on free will to do it, as they predicted. Therefore, The Vishanti never intervened or helped Strange in his battle against Shuma.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"They were rendered ineffective within Cyttorak's realm. "
Correction, The Vishanti plus other gods were rendered ineffective within Cyttorak's realm, therefore, The Vishanti’s powers plus other pantheon of gods are < Cyttorak’s powers.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Gorath was not in his realm when the Vishanti confronted him. "
is a mere assumption of yours and it is not know, but don’t worry is not very important, I will explain you later.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" There would be no reason for them to go seeking each other out within their realms. The only logical place they could have fought was on earth, seeing as how Agamotto was earth's protector before a sorcerer supreme was made. Shuma-Gorath had ruled the earth for eons until banished by Sise-Neg. Meaning they were unable to oust Shuma-Gorath from his position.
Cyttorak ruled the Earth by thousands of years before being banished probably by Gaea (Elder God) who was the mother of all gods who ruled the Earth at some point; is possibly to think that was after Shuma was banished by Sise-Neg.
@Prince CortSether said:
"Agamotto, Oshtur, and Hoggoth already make up The Vishanti so listing them and then saying "including the Vishanti" is redundant. In any case, I didn't see any of their spells even being attempted to be used against Shuma."
Again, Strange never needed to use some spells of these pantheons of gods to defeat Shuma. Strange just was enough to seize Arioch’s powers, then, to face Shuma and overcome its powers destroying it physically. Later, to avoid his spiritual corruption, Strange sacrificed his own ego after being merged with Shuma due to large amounts of evil energy absorbed (Black Magic plus Arioch plus Shuma).
@Prince CortSether
said:
"My analogy was entirely valid. The only relation Shuma's servants had to Shuma-Gorath was the fact that they were subservient to him. They were granted none of Shuma-Gorath's actual magic power (save for Kathulos who was only granted the power to summon lesser demons to attack Strange) and therefore there was never an instance of Cyttorak magic overcoming Shuma-Gorath's power.
False, you wrong analogy never explained what I meant.
Kathulos, N’Thaga Krakor, N’ Gabthoth, Sligguth, were the most powerful Shuma Gorath’s agents (apart Arioch). However, among all them, Kathulos was the most powerful and deadly. All Kathulos's powers were granted by Shuma Gorath’s magic, but unfortunately Kathulos was destroyed by Dr. Strange conjuring Cyttorak’s powers.
Kathulos works just as it does Shuma Gorath: absorbing energy and merging with others, is the same Shuma Gorath's powers (parasitic attack).
This is an clear indication that supports the effectiveness of Cyttorak’s magic over Shuma’s magic. No matter the extent of such.
@Prince CortSether said:
" Strange in Cyttorak's realm had not even close the same amount of power or prep as he did in Shuma's realm. Get that through your head please otherwise this will just keep going in circles.
I do respond again:
Completely False, I think you're missing a small-great detail, Strange had a great preparation for dealing with Shuma Gorath, yes, I’ve stated before, however, in the order of events, Strange defeated Shuma Gorath long before confronting Cyttorak, therefore, Strange in theory should have been better prepared to stand a "lesser God" as your supposed to believe is Cyttorak in his realm, but mournfully he could not, What did it the result? Strange was completely helpless, i.e., his experience and knowledge acquired against Shuma Gorath nothing helped himself to protect his own life against Cyttorak as already was The Sorcerer Supreme. This only reveals that Cyttorak is not a lesser God; on the contrary, this shows the superiority of Cyttorak because he was confronted by a Dr. Strange more mature, wiser and with wider powers and better prepared as the Sorcerer Supreme. This was an incredible feat. Please note that his meeting with Cyttorak was a subsequent event after his confrontation with Shuma Gorath when he barely made his debut as the Sorcerer Supreme. This reiterates the superiority of Cyttorak again.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Cyttorak and Shuma-Gorath are two separate entities so knowledge on one would not automatically be of help in confronting the other. Knowledge can only do so much. Stephen still didn't have the power necessary to confront a God within its realm when he was within the Crimson Cosmos.
This means that you recognize that Cyttorak was superior over Shuma because Strange then required having an even greater preparation to face a God, because his experience and knowledge with Shuma not helped him to face a God as Cyttorak, therefore, the prove was that he could not merge with him.
Makes sense and meaning, Strange can merge with a demonic parasite but can not merge with a God. Don't worry, later when you get the point about the nature of both, will be explained in detail.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Strange needed to fuse with an infinite to even enter Shuma's turf.
Is not correct, is correct to say: “Strange needed to fuse with a vastly being as Arioch to even enter Shuma's turf".
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Arioch/Strange >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strange not merged with a god.
What kind of invention is this? There is only one Dr. Stephen Strange did have before the opportunity to absorb the power and have control over the Arioch’s magic. A Strange went through this experience (knowledge of having absorbed a being with vast powers as Arioch) could not merge with God (Cyttorak). Again, this demonstrates the superiority of Cyttorak’s divine nature over Shuma who is not a God.
Shuma Gorath’s magic power was not unlimited in his realm, look the contradictory and wrong for these: you can not drain the infinite energy of someone because it is infinite, so you'll never finish to drain infinite energy of someone because is endless, never going to end up drain.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"Tell that to comic writers in Marvel and DC. They don't operate with that logic."
I think that is backwards: comic writers in Marvel and DC don't operate with your logic, dude.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"I think you're the only one who can't see the plot device right in front of you. When has Strange ever before or after his meeting with Arioch been able to force a god to merge with him? In fact, when has any character done this? He was only able to absorb Arioch because Steve Englehart wrote himself into a corner and realized "Heck, he's fighting a God with infinite energy and can make himself as powerful as he wishes to be...how is he supposed to get through this?" and thus the absorption PIS was written.
False, on the Plot never said Arioch has infinite magical powers, you should stop lying. Arioch had vast magic power but not infinite (as I shall show later as he said Sise-Neg) so it was absorbed by Dr. Strange and was merged under his control, Strange lost much of his principles and vows but not entirely his humanity and spiritual integrity (still a 100% mortal as Shuma said him). If you have infinite magical powers, you can not be absorbed by someone with finite or less magical powers. My explanation again to understand how it was defeated Arioch:
If Arioch had infinite magical power as you supposedly think he had defeated Stephen in a blink of an eye, for common sense, and therefore, Arioch with his infinite mystical power had never been absorbed by Strange, Arioch never would have allowed be absorbed by Strange because he has infinite powers, but unfortunately the opposite happened, Arioch never had such unlimited magical power and the proof of this is that Arioch was absorbed by Strange who is a finite being. Strange was able to absorb the magical powers of Arioch as if nothing, this means that no are unlimited. If you have always infinite magical powers, you will impose always to any finite and lesser being with less magical powers. Arioch said himself: he could only be as strong as he can imagine, this does not mean infinite power, as you think Cort, and the imagination does have limits as well as the knowledge of something.
The imagination is not unlimited because it depends and is limited by the knowledge that you have about something. Arioch's imagination was limited because he could not avoid being absorbed by Strange who is a finite being with less magic than him; therefore, Arioch never imagined it would be absorbed by Strange. Where are now the infinite powers of Arioch? If Arioch had infinite magical powers Why not avoid being absorbed by Strange or not being under his control with a single thought? Arioch had no unlimited magical powers. Someone with infinite magic can not be drained by one finite because his magic is endless, not a being with infinite magical power can be absorbed by someone finite precisely because its power can not be contained and controlled by someone with finite magic.
Strange just merged with them (according the Plot) to defeat Shuma with the idea of self-sacrifice, because Shuma it is a parasite demon (not a God) that feeds on the energies of other beings without producing its own. Therefore, how can you beat someone that absorb the same evil energy limited at some point?. The answer: draining Arioch’s finite energies to merge with him and match and surpass Shuma’s magical powers (which were also limited because Strange canceled its spell to destroy the earth) like this Strange physically destroyed Shuma preventing the Earth’s destruction. After Shuma was physically destroyed, Strange was merged with him and had to self-sacrificing his own ego to avoid the corruption of his spirit and that could revive Shuma again in any evil spell. In this way, it makes sense to me the Englehart's plot about self-sacrifice.
According Sise-Neg, (here is another irrefutable proof) indicates that the mystical energies in the universe is finite. This corroborates my statement that the energy drained from Shuma Gorath by Sise-Neg was also finite because this way did fall him into a state of sleep, someone with endless energy will not fall asleep, much less because someone drains his energies to almost empty. So, that Arioch and Shuma never had endless magic energy in the whole Universe.
This means that no living being has infinite magical powers (except Cyttorak in Crimson Cosmos).This supports my theory of zero capacity of Shuma to generate its own energy. If anyone has any evidence where I can see Shuma creating its own energy without absorbing other creatures, then would I see the scan yep?.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" He was only able to absorb Arioch because Steve Englehart wrote himself into a corner and realized "Heck, he's fighting a God with infinite energy and can make himself as powerful as he wishes to be...how is he supposed to get through this?" and thus the absorption PIS was written."
Where Steve Englehart did say that? Do you have the scan? Or do you declare a liar?.
The plot has never indicated that Shuma has infinite powers or is a God. Shuma is not a God and he doesn´t have infinite powers.
Later, Shuma after being destroyed physically, Strange merged with Shuma; then Strange destroyed his own ego, so as to destroy Shuma Gorath.
A God as Cyttorak can not be absorbed by a mortal like Strange but a parasite Demon as Shuma Gorath works in this way and live for this; however, Shuma was not aware about this self-sacrifice to be defeated by Strange in this way.
@Prince CortSether
said:
Shuma-Gorath can also create and destroy...so? Only difference is that Cyttorak is a glory hog and Shuma-Gorath doesn't have a care in the slightest about being worshipped."
We have arrived at the most interesting point of this post.
Completely false, first: Shuma Gorath is not a God, therefore, he can not create anything, Shuma Gorath is a Lord of Chaos and its nature is absolutely demonic and fucking parasitic, typical characteristic of the worst demons.Shuma Gorath is a Demon Class 3 and by its nature works exclusively to absorb the energies of other beings, worlds and merge with powerful sorcerers. Its magical powers is not unlimited simply because he can not produce its own magical powers, Shuma is conditioned to produce its magical powers and increase its power by the amount of energy through it can absorb from other beings and other worlds. It stands to reason that because of this, Shuma has ruled hundreds of dimensions to obtain a vast power due to large energy absorbed from these dimensions; therefore, its power is immense but is not infinite.
Shuma Gorath is a parasite and parasites are not glorified by anyone, due their very nature. Shuma doesn’t generate its own power; it can only produce magic power by absorbing energy from other beings. Example, before being banished by Sise-Neg, it was seeing Shuma attacking the apes on earth, presumably, the amount of magic power was limited to the energies that could absorb from these apes. The result that proves these is that Shuma energies were drained by Sise-Neg to the point that left Shuma in its slumbering state, ie, almost completely empty. Otherwise, here we can see that if a being does have infinite magical powers, had never been drained until to fall asleep because his energies are just endless, infinity, limitless; simply Shuma never have fallen asleep. If Shuma was a God (in the hypothetical case), then Sise-Neg had been draining its energies for all eternity. This is proof that Shuma Gorath’s energies are not infinite.
Only a God has unlimited power to create life and Cyttorak also has that power. Cyttorak truly has limitless powers in Crimson Cosmos, because of this; Strange could not merge with Cyttorak and was helpless in all senses.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"Strange never banished Shuma under his own power. Murdering the Ancient One collapsed his mind, which was Shuma's gateway. That wasn't under Strange's power. The second banishment was using the mystical energies of Stonehenge to open the gateway to banish Shuma, which is why Strange had to lead the battle there.
Wrong, Strange has always been empowered to use any type of magical power to banish everyone and so, he did it when transported Shuma to Stonehenge and managed to banish it beyond time and matter. It was Strange who banished Shuma no matter if he used the Stonehenge’s magic powers to banish it, Shuma Gorath could not absorb these energies and Strange beat him. Therefore, the Octessence can do the same to Shuma Gorath because among their magical abilities they can transport Shuma beyond time and matter as well.
Shuma Gorath was weak, Yes, then weak means Shuma doesn’t have unlimited energy so Shuma needs absorbs energies from others. Someone Cyttorak in Crimson Cosmos who has limitless, infinity or boundless energy never weakens for this problem.
Shuma Gorath was hungry, Yes. Someone as Shuma who is hungry for energy doesn’t have limitless magical energies and doesn’t produce its own energy without absorbing from others.
Where is Shuma’s magical power as unlimited above?
Where do you see that Shuma produces its own magical energies without absorbing anyone?
Shuma only see that it works like a parasite absorbing Sue’s energies.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"And you're saying Shuma-Gorath doesn't? It can travel dimensions freely there's no reason why it couldn't BFR people through dimensions also.
Shuma can be banished by the Octessence to a dimension beyond time and matter which can not ever return but without the need to go to Stonehenge (gateway) as Strange did it with Shuma. This would be a clear victory for Octessence via BFR.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Shuma-Gorath also generates its own magical power and can be used as the power source for spells."
Absolutely False, see above ; )
Above is the proof that Shuma can not generate its own energies, therefore, his mistical energies are limited to the amount of energy that can absorb from other beings. Shuma is a fucking parasite Demon; it never will be worshiped as a God, Cort
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Shuma didn't even know Sise-Neg was there, ergo it wasn't even a battle. I can sneak up behind a big guy and put him in a choke hold until he passes out but that doesn't necessarily mean I could kick his ass in a direct confrontation.
Wrong, Sise-Neg he could do it, because Shuma is a parasite and only feeds on the energies of its victims, again, it was clear Shuma’s energies were not unlimited because Sise-Neg drained just enough to put it to sleep and banish it. If Shuma had unlimited energy then Sise-Neg never would have done to drain enough until making it fall into the slumbering form.
Shuma doesn’t have limitless magic energies, see above.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Uhm, no. It is stated on panel that the previous aspects of Strange are little motes compared to before.
"
These tiny motes of his memories are from Dr. Strange who had complete control to manipulate the surging sea of Arioch’s energy at his will to cut off a Shuma Gorath’s tentacle (octopus sushi) and destroy it physically. ; )
@Prince CortSether
said:
"Nothing of the sort was demonstrated. It was two entities of infinite magical power clashing against each other. They became equals. "
False, is a construct based on the inconsistent or incoherent interpretation of yours about what would happen if Strange/Arioch and Shuma do have infinite magical powers. If it had been well, they clash, and became equal, then they had never been destroyed each other, they had fought for all eternity and the idea of Strange's self-sacrifice would be pointless.
But they did not have these powers (as the parasitic nature of Shuma has been explained above) Strange being finite with some amount of black magic defeated Arioch and merged with him but under the control of Dr. Strange to destroy physically Shuma, so Strange merged with Shuma under the control of Dr. Strange too (Strange was not corrupted spiritually) when Shuma was destroyed physically; then Strange self- sacrificed his ego, so as to destroy spiritually Shuma Gorath temporarily. Here there was not a clash of entities with infinite powers because two entities with infinite magical powers can not be destroyed each other. Where are the infinite powers? None of these entities were demonstrated with infinite magical power.
Everything indicates that the plot is totally consistent if we consider both beings (Arioch and Shuma) have vast amounts of magical powers but not limitless. Arioch had great power but was not equaled than Shuma who had more magical powers, however, when Strange absorbed Arioch’s magical energies increased his magical powers of evil to the point that he did have a sufficient level of power to confront and destroy Shuma Gorath.
The idea of Strange’s self-sacrifice was to prevent the corruption of his spirit and prevent the resurgence of Shuma if he were using some spell in the name of. How do you explain that a finite being as Strange was able to control a being with infinite powers within? Impossible, therefore, the logic remains that Shuma Gorath’s powers were not infinite, were vast but not infinite, so Shuma was controlled and neutralized by Strange/Arioch (Shuma was destroyed) before Shuma could destroy the earth and before the self-sacrifice of Strange’s ego to prevent its resurgence.
The full truth, if Shuma Gorath being a parasitic Demon that works by absorbing energies and merging with others had infinite magical powers, then Shuma generate its own unlimited magic power, Shuma never need to feed on other energy to produce its own, never weaken, never have fallen asleep when much of its supposed infinite magic energy was drained by Sise-Neg, had never been physically destroyed, it had never been weak and hungry, never had ceased itself to be transported to Stonehenge and being banished by Strange invoking the simple magic of Stonehenge. Therefore, all this shows that Shuma has no infinite magical energies because he had all these problems that clearly indicate the limits of its mystical energies.
I said it before Shuma is a parasite Demon, Shuma only has capacity to absorb energy from other beings and is not capable of generating its own energy as opposed to Cyttorak who does it and does have limitless magic energies.
Both are beings that they can not kill each other. Shuma can not drain a magical being with infinite magic power as Cyttorak for all eternity and who can not be destroyed. Shuma can not be destroyed with black magic but it can be weakened and banished out of his dimension. It is clear that there can be a victory for the Octessence via BFR, or be a stalemate battle.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" Shuma-Gorath was weak and hungry which was the only reason Stonehenge worked. Otherwise using Stonehenge to banish Shuma would have been a viable option in the past. "
Shuma "Was weak and hungry",then, you recognize how limited are the magic energies of Shuma Gorath. I congratulate you, then, where is the supposed ability to generate its own infinite energy? where are its limitless magical energies which doesn’t let it in any second to be weak or energy-hungry? See above ^__^
@Prince CortSether
said:
" No member of the Octessence has proven to be more powerful than Shuma-Gorath. Quit lying. And Cyttorak is a prisoner in his own realm whereas Shuma can travel freely in most cases. So what's your point?"
Wrong, they have been proven to be superior because each entity has vast magical powers and ability to banish powerful magical beings, however, Cyttorak has proven to be the most powerful of all them because he is the only God/Demon with unlimited magical powers in his Crimson Cosmos. The Octessence has the power to banish a parasite like Shuma Gorath, if Strange who is one being less than the Octessence did it, nothing indicates that they can not do it the Octessence due Shuma doesn't have unlimited powers within or outside of its realm.
@Prince CortSether
said:
" That's all fine and dandy that Strange and other entities use Cyttorak's magic but that says nothing as to how Cyttorak or any of the Octessence would fare against Shuma. They have nothing to show for all you're giving them credit for."
Dr. Strange with all his preparation, knowledge and limitations defeated Shuma Gorath two times in which he once banished it. Dr. Strange as Sorcerer Supreme is a being completely inferior than Cyttorak; even he is not comparable with Cyttorak under any aspect. Strange was helpless against him and he can’t go against his own magic spell (Octessence’s magic entities) to the point that had to give them up once time. This makes me think, then, Cyttorak and the rest of the Octessence have the power to banish Shuma to another dimension of no return and win by BFR, is a valid opinion based on what The Exemplars (Octessence’s avatars), Strange (as a catalyst for measuring magic power) and Cyttorak have done.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"Again, Strange was not a "human being" at the time of his battling Shuma-Gorath. He was a God at that point."
Even the same Shuma told Strange was still a mortal, also Strange did have his tiny motes of memories, fears, etc. from his human spirit that did have full control of all Arioch’s power, who wasn’t God.
@Prince CortSether
said:
"And Shuma-Gorath's powers based on on-panel descriptions are far greater than any member of the Octessence has shown. Therefore Shuma-Gorath should have power to banish the Octessence to realms of no return."
Shuma has no power to banish a God, this was never occurred in the comics but it was shown that Shuma can be banished by Strange. Again, Shuma is not a God; Shuma is a demonic parasite and its powers come from the absorption of energy from other creatures. Again, Shuma energies were drained by Sise-Neg until it fell asleep, so Shuma’s energies does have limits.
I'm busy ATM but I will address your long post when I have time. Your post is not without flaws, though I respect your opinions.
@Danilo018
said:
"@fallenangel5991 said:
How did I prove that I'm an epic fail? By owning you and making you cry in debates? By posting actual scans to back up my claims? By showing everyone just how....stupid that you are because you don't know what a demons is? I'm thoroughly confused by your statement. I feel sorry for you. That's all I can say for now.
Yep. Good scans too, as seen by people who actually have a functional brain. My scans destroyed your argument, and you know it. Calling me a troll and epic fail doesn't change the fact that you were destroyed.
If I failed then at least I only failed 207 times, while YOU FAILED.....860 TIMES. Do the math big boy.
Yea and I have an answer to that. NO. And there's not one damn thing you can do about it. If you talk crap then don't be scared if people humiliate you. That's the way life is.
1). Failing? Nah. "Owning a troll" is a better description to what I have been doing.
Trust me, if I needed to actually try to downgrade someone, it wouldn't be against a pathetic retard like you who does not even know what a "realm" means.
Read my posts with a clear head. And you'll see just how stupid you are, and just how bad I owned you. As for me not being able to own "an idiot with an IQ of 30", you're a LOT worse than that.
Save the bullsh!t for the birds. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Now run away before I embarrass you even more. "
In this reply of yours there is nothing considering the topic. So that proves how valid debater you are. Also you haven't proved anything you claimed and you were simply twisting the words from scans, but you were cought in a lie and proved wrong. "
Danilo018:
I like how you conveniently
choose to ignore my first post ( which rebutted every single point of yours )
, and choose instead to quote my second post ( where I was defending myself from personal attacks ), and then tell me that I went off topic. Shows to me that you're scared to have an actual debate with me.
Anyways, there's not much more to say. I've made my point, and I've backed it up with actual evidences. If you still want to call me a troll and an "epic fail", go right ahead. But don't think that it'll change the fact that I beat you in the debate because you offered absolutely nothing to back up what you said. It also puzzles me that you got so butthurt and started screaming just because people called you a liar several times. That kind of response would have come from no one but a small and insecure child.
I honestly don't want anything more to do with you. And believe me, you do not want to mess with
@kenshiroo: "Wrong, you can not define the right and wrong in terms of my interpretation and much less when it can have more than one interpretation of a single event. I can interpret the Kaluu’s opinion was entirely circumstantial exaggeration; due he was sooo weak in Shuma’s realm. You can not prove as true a metaphor or hyperbole of someone under that state of weakness. You can only refute me if you have a scan where Kaluu has fought with Sattanish and Mephisto to say he does have knowingly. There is not explicit and implicit. Do you have any scan? If he does have, is true, if not is a metaphor and hyperbole circumstantial of him."
- I don't see how there are multiple ways to interpret that event. The evil energies of the realm Kaluu and Doctor Strange had entered were so strong that Kaluu collapsed and could not continue. There is nothing to suggest that it was exaggeration on Kaluu's part. What we have is Kaluu's word alone to communicate the scope of power in that realm. Kaluu is arguably the most powerful mortal practitioner of black magic in the Marvel Universe. He has substantial knowledge of spells from the Book of the Vishanti and spells from Chthon's Darkhold. He taps into the life force of others and is also capable of necromancy. He is well associated with the powers of lesser demons and knows what they are capable of. As I said before there was nothing to indicate Kaluu's statement was merely exaggeration and therefore his words stated on panel have to be considered 100% concrete.
"False, I never ask you such a thing, I just wanted to say that both Mephisto and Sattanish are inferior to Cyttorak too. The Kaluu’s hyperbole and metaphor not mean a feat that demonstrates any inferiority of them against Shuma Gorath. Kaluu never fought with them before."
- As a master practitioner of black magic, Kaluu would know full well the scope of demons dealing in the black arts. IF Kaluu was merely exaggerating the strength of the realm then it isn't suggested anywhere. Doctor Strange didn't disagree with Kaluu's statement in the slightest. The depth of the journey into realms where no mortals have ever gone before was highly stressed. The whole point was to show how perilous Doctor Strange's quest was. The story wouldn't be emphasizing Kaluu's collapse during their journey unless it wanted to demonstrate how strong the challenge ahead was.
"False, The Vishanti never went with Strange to confront Shuma Gorath in its realm because they did not want intervene again, leaving Strange on free will to do it, as they predicted. Therefore, The Vishanti never intervened or helped Strange in his battle against Shuma."
- I never said The Vishanti traveled with Doctor Strange to Shuma-Gorath's realm. However, just because The Vishanti didn't go with Strange doesn't mean that he had none of their power. Strange had the knowledge of all previous spells/incantations derived from The Vishanti as well as all of the mystical artifacts originating from them. Strange had asked The Vishanti if they would be the ones to save the Earth from Shuma-Gorath and as you are aware they replied that they would not. That just shows that they would not intervene personally that doesn't show that Strange was not allowed to use the power he had already gotten from the Vishanti previously.
"Correction, The Vishanti plus other gods were rendered ineffective within Cyttorak's realm, therefore, The Vishanti’s powers plus other pantheon of gods are < Cyttorak’s powers."
- Were any of the Gods Strange called upon actually in Cyttorak's realm? No. There's a big difference between invoking the spells of a God from a completely alien dimension and having Gods fight on even grounds. It was Cyttorak's realm where he had control over everything and nobody equal in power was in the realm to challenge him. But say the Gods that Strange called upon actually travelled into the Crimson Cosmos to challenge Cyttorak, it would be a different story. For example, on Kathulos, Strange is unable to use any spells because Kathulos will not allow it as he is omnipotent on himself. Does that mean Kathulos is stronger than Cyttorak now? Obviously not. It just means that he dictates the rules and since he is the strongest one there at that point, he can negate any magic he so chooses. It'd definitely be a different story if Cyttorak had popped up on Kathulos. You think Kathulos would be able to negate his magic then?
"Again, Strange never needed to use some spells of these pantheons of gods to defeat Shuma. Strange just was enough to seize Arioch’s powers, then, to face Shuma and overcome its powers destroying it physically. Later, to avoid his spiritual corruption, Strange sacrificed his own ego after being merged with Shuma due to large amounts of evil energy absorbed (Black Magic plus Arioch plus Shuma)."
- Strange not attempting to use any spells of The Vishanti simply demonstrates how useless they were at that point. Nothing Strange had in his arsenal before merging with Arioch would have done anything to Shuma-Gorath because he dwarfed Strange in power. Again with the Arioch thing...are you the only one who cannot detect the PIS in that instance? I'll ask you again, when has Doctor Strange before or after that point been able to force a God to merge with him? If it was that easy in that instance then he should have been able to do it against any of Shuma-Gorath's other servants, like Nightmare or Kathulos, and Arioch was already demonstrated to be the most powerful servant of all, so it should have been even easier beforehand. It's called PIS and it's weaved in comics constantly.
"Kathulos, N’Thaga Krakor, N’ Gabthoth, Sligguth, were the most powerful Shuma Gorath’s agents (apart Arioch). However, among all them, Kathulos was the most powerful and deadly. All Kathulos's powers were granted by Shuma Gorath’s magic, but unfortunately Kathulos was destroyed by Dr. Strange conjuring Cyttorak’s powers."
- The scan you use of Kathulos proves your own argument wrong. Kathulos was not granted ALL of his powers by Shuma-Gorath. The ONLY powers granted to Kathulos by Shuma-Gorath was the ability to pull Doctor Strange through a space warp and force him onto himself (Kathulos). It is even said in the very scan you posted "I have brought you here by powers granted to me by the dread Shuma-Gorath!" Notice how in that word bubble, brought is being bolded. Everything else Kathulos did in his battle with Strange was due to his own ability. Unless you want to argue that Shuma-Gorath needed to lend Kathulos his own power in order for Kathulos to be able to strangle Strange with his vines? :D
"Kathulos works just as it does Shuma Gorath: absorbing energy and merging with others, is the same Shuma Gorath's powers (parasitic attack). This is an clear indication that supports the effectiveness of Cyttorak’s magic over Shuma’s magic. No matter the extent of such."
- So you're saying that because Shuma-Gorath and Kathulos are both able to absorb other entities it means Cyttorak's powers are greater than Shuma-Gorath's? Firstly, Shuma-Gorath and Kathulos do not absorb entities in the same way. Shuma-Gorath can feed off of any type of energy and devours entire universes (dimensions). Kathulos doesn't devour actualities. He puts single entities in a trance by mesmerizing them and drawing them into an Astral Plane where he then absorbs the entities soul/being, forcing a merging. However, during this process he is unable to negate any magic, which is how Strange was able to overcome him. Shuma-Gorath and Kathulos work entirely differently. Secondly, in no way do either of their abilities equate to Cyttorak being Shuma-Gorath's superior. Yes, Cyttorak is definitely Kathulos' superior but not because of the way in which Kathulos absorbs people. They have nothing to do with each other and are entirely unrelated.
"I do respond again: Completely False, I think you're missing a small-great detail, Strange had a great preparation for dealing with Shuma Gorath, yes, I’ve stated before, however, in the order of events, Strange defeated Shuma Gorath long before confronting Cyttorak, therefore, Strange in theory should have been better prepared to stand a "lesser God" as your supposed to believe is Cyttorak in his realm, but mournfully he could not, What did it the result? Strange was completely helpless, i.e., his experience and knowledge acquired against Shuma Gorath nothing helped himself to protect his own life against Cyttorak as already was The Sorcerer Supreme. This only reveals that Cyttorak is not a lesser God; on the contrary, this shows the superiority of Cyttorak because he was confronted by a Dr. Strange more mature, wiser and with wider powers and better prepared as the Sorcerer Supreme. This was an incredible feat. Please note that his meeting with Cyttorak was a subsequent event after his confrontation with Shuma Gorath when he barely made his debut as the Sorcerer Supreme. This reiterates the superiority of Cyttorak again."
- Strange's long, drawn out confrontation with Shuma-Gorath may have been long before Strange encountered Cyttorak within the Crimson Cosmos, but that doesn't mean he was better prepared to face Cyttorak. i'll use an analogy again because you love my analogies so much lol. I could be in the middle of the ocean in my scuba gear in front of a great white shark, and with me I have a large spear gun and all the necessary tools to do the shark serious damage. I know what to do in that instance and have a great chance of getting out alive. But say I go into the ocean at a separate point in time and encounter another shark, except this time I have only my scuba gear and no weapons to defend myself. I'm completely screwed. Yeah, I know how to defend myself and battle a shark when I have all the necessary precautions and equipment, but when I have none of that underwater weaponry (let's think of these weapons as Strange's merging with Arioch) all my knowledge isn't going to get me very far. In terms of the actual comics, Strange may have been wiser due to his previous experience of battling a God in its own turf, but he had none of the necessary prep time/power boosting necessary to go hand-in-hand with his greater knowledge.
"This means that you recognize that Cyttorak was superior over Shuma because Strange then required having an even greater preparation to face a God, because his experience and knowledge with Shuma not helped him to face a God as Cyttorak, therefore, the prove was that he could not merge with him. Makes sense and meaning, Strange can merge with a demonic parasite but can not merge with a God. Don't worry, later when you get the point about the nature of both, will be explained in detail."
- This does not mean that I recognize Cyttorak as Shuma-Gorath's superior. I still hold my opinion that Shuma-Gorath is superior to Cyttorak in all areas. I already explained how the good doctor's greater wisdom at the time of his encounter with Cyttorak doesn't matter at all. Strange couldn't simply merge with anybody before or after that encounter with Arioch. I think you know it was a PIS incident yet you want to continue ignoring it for the sake of your argument. Shuma-Gorath is a God. No ifs ands or buts. You're opening a whole new can of worms in trying to argue that Shuma-Gorath is a "parasite" and not a God. Yes, Shuma-Gorath has parasitic characteristics in that he leeches energy. However, he's still a God. Shuma-Gorath refers to himself as a God, in the Fantastic Four issue with a weakened Shuma-Gorath the narrator even refers to Shuma-Gorath as "the Dark God". The Lord of Chaos is a God. That simple.
"Is not correct, is correct to say: “Strange needed to fuse with a vastly being as Arioch to even enter Shuma's turf". - Arioch is an infinite in his realm. What I said stands.
"What kind of invention is this? There is only one Dr. Stephen Strange did have before the opportunity to absorb the power and have control over the Arioch’s magic. A Strange went through this experience (knowledge of having absorbed a being with vast powers as Arioch) could not merge with God (Cyttorak). Again, this demonstrates the superiority of Cyttorak’s divine nature over Shuma who is not a God."
- It's an invention now to say a mortal merged with a God is >>>>>>>>> a mere mortal? Uhm, whatever you say dude. No matter what way you try to spin it Strange/Arioch is infinitely more powerful than Strange by himself. That's all there is to it. Again, his forcing Arioch to merge with him is PIS. Do you know what PIS is? Strange was only able to force Arioch to merge with him for the sake of plot.
"Shuma Gorath’s magic power was not unlimited in his realm, look the contradictory and wrong for these: you can not drain the infinite energy of someone because it is infinite, so you'll never finish to drain infinite energy of someone because is endless, never going to end up drain."
- Try and explain the definition of infinite to comic writers. They don't care. In DC Comics, for example, COIE Anti-Monitor reduced an infinite number of universes to a finite amount. It's not possible using real world logic, but it happens in comics all the time. Marvel is filled with contradictory things like that all the time. For instance, Marvel says it has its own omniverse...which doesn't make sense. However it's written as such on panel. In the case of Arioch, Steve Englehart wrote that Arioch's power was not even finite and when he wrote that it's what he meant.
"I think that is backwards: comic writers in Marvel and DC don't operate with your logic, dude."
- That would be true because comics aren't restricted to real world examples. You just don't get it. Unless you want to explain to me what a pocket realm is in real life? Or how about giving me a real world example of a multiverse?
"False, on the Plot never said Arioch has infinite magical powers, you should stop lying."
- Arioch's power was stated on panel to not be finite. Who's lying?
"Arioch had vast magic power but not infinite (as I shall show later as he said Sise-Neg) so it was absorbed by Dr. Strange and was merged under his control, Strange lost much of his principles and vows but not entirely his humanity and spiritual integrity (still a 100% mortal as Shuma said him). If you have infinite magical powers, you can not be absorbed by someone with finite or less magical powers."
- Arioch was infinite within his realm. All gods are within their realms because it's their own pocket dimension and they can do whatever they want (until someone more powerful comes along and overrides their omnipotence). Doctor Strange absorbed a single entity that contained an infinite amount of magical power. You yourself maintain that Cyttorak has infinite power within his Crimson Cosmos, yet you want to say that it is impossible for an entity to contain infinite energy? You're contradicting yourself. An entity can contain an infinite flow of magical power within their own realm, meaning it isn't going to run out and they can do whatever they want with it. All you're doing is pointing out the PIS with Arioch.
"My explanation again to understand how it was defeated Arioch. If Arioch had infinite magical power as you supposedly think he had defeated Stephen in a blink of an eye, for common sense, and therefore, Arioch with his infinite mystical power had never been absorbed by Strange, Arioch never would have allowed be absorbed by Strange because he has infinite powers,"
- And thus you recognize the absolute PIS of the entire situation. You recognize it. It's right in front of you. Now stop ignoring it and trying to turn it into something that it wasn't.
"but unfortunately the opposite happened, Arioch never had such unlimited magical power and the proof of this is that Arioch was absorbed by Strange who is a finite being. Strange was able to absorb the magical powers of Arioch as if nothing, this means that no are unlimited. If you have always infinite magical powers, you will impose always to any finite and lesser being with less magical powers. Arioch said himself: he could only be as strong as he can imagine, this does not mean infinite power, as you think Cort, and the imagination does have limits as well as the knowledge of something. The imagination is not unlimited because it depends and is limited by the knowledge that you have about something. Arioch's imagination was limited because he could not avoid being absorbed by Strange who is a finite being with less magic than him; therefore, Arioch never imagined it would be absorbed by Strange. Where are now the infinite powers of Arioch? If Arioch had infinite magical powers Why not avoid being absorbed by Strange or not being under his control with a single thought? Arioch had no unlimited magical powers. Someone with infinite magic can not be drained by one finite because his magic is endless, not a being with infinite magical power can be absorbed by someone finite precisely because its power can not be contained and controlled by someone with finite magic."
- All Gods have infinite power within their own pocket realm. Infinite in that its neverending, not going to run dry. They can also do anything their imagination can conceive. They are absolute in the realm until someone of greater omnipotence enters. That is why Strange forcing Arioch to merge with him is PIS. For one, Strange has never been able to do that before or after that case. Secondly, the only ones who would be able to force Arioch to merge with them are Gods that supersede Arioch in power.
"Strange just merged with them (according the Plot) to defeat Shuma with the idea of self-sacrifice, because Shuma it is a parasite demon (not a God) that feeds on the energies of other beings without producing its own."
- Shuma-Gorath has already shown capable of generating its own mystical energy. It has its own mystical power but is also capable of draining from others in order to feed itself. And I'll type it down again, Shuma-Gorath is a God. G-O-D. It calls itself a God on panel, and the narrator calls Shuma-Gorath a God on panel.
"Therefore, how can you beat someone that absorb the same evil energy limited at some point?. The answer: draining Arioch’s finite energies to merge with him and match and surpass Shuma’s magical powers (which were also limited because Strange canceled its spell to destroy the earth) like this Strange physically destroyed Shuma preventing the Earth’s destruction."
- I think you need to look at the battle between Strange/Arioch and Shuma-Gorath again. Strange/Arioch was never able to actually harm Shuma-Gorath until he was already in the process of becoming Shuma-Gorath itself. Shuma never actually tried to destroy the Earth with that spell, he merely taunted Strange with it. And Strange never cancelled Shuma's spell. Actually when he tried to it made everybody on earth writhe in agony.
"According Sise-Neg, (here is another irrefutable proof) indicates that the mystical energies in the universe is finite. This corroborates my statement that the energy drained from Shuma Gorath by Sise-Neg was also finite because this way did fall him into a state of sleep, someone with endless energy will not fall asleep, much less because someone drains his energies to almost empty. So, that Arioch and Shuma never had endless magic energy in the whole Universe."
- The mystical energy in the main universe/timeline was proven to be finite. That says nothing about pocket realms situated in a universe of their very own. Yea, nobody ever said Shuma-Gorath had unlimited energy absolutely everywhere. It's only within their pocket realms.
"This means that no living being has infinite magical powers (except Cyttorak in Crimson Cosmos).This supports my theory of zero capacity of Shuma to generate its own energy. If anyone has any evidence where I can see Shuma creating its own energy without absorbing other creatures, then would I see the scan yep?."
- LOL. Did you really just try and build this whole argument that nobody has infinite magical power and then turn around and say "except for Cyttorak"? Your theory of Shuma not being able to generate its own energy is wrong because it has been depicted as doing so on panel. Yea, the scan where he generated earth's replica came from Shuma-Gorath's own energy. >XD You're hilarious.
'Where Steve Englehart did say that? Do you have the scan? Or do you declare a liar?."
- Do I REALLY need to explain to you what PIS is? Writers either tone down super powerful characters so as to make battles with them more interesting or they'll pull an ability/spell out of their ass so as to defeat a super powered being that a character wouldn't have been able to defeat under normal circumstances (due to previously defined power sets or a character's conceptual purpose).
"The plot has never indicated that Shuma has infinite powers or is a God."
- I never said the plot indicated any of that. But the narration even declares Shuma-Gorath a God.
" Shuma is not a God and he doesn´t have infinite powers."
- Shuma-Gorath is a God and the "plot" even called it as such. In all of Shuma's appearances.
"Later, Shuma after being destroyed physically, Strange merged with Shuma; then Strange destroyed his own ego, so as to destroy Shuma Gorath. A God as Cyttorak can not be absorbed by a mortal like Strange but a parasite Demon as Shuma Gorath works in this way and live for this; however, Shuma was not aware about this self-sacrifice to be defeated by Strange in this way."
- Strange didn't actually merge with the original Shuma. Strange/Arioch was in the process of being consumed by Shuma-Gorath's energy after Shuma was apparently destroyed and eventually Shuma-Gorath would have overcome Strange and consumed him entirely. It was Strange/Arioch releasing Shuma's power which prevented this. It was Shuma-Gorath that was forcing the consumption of Strange/Arioch, not Strange/Arioch that was forcing Shuma-Gorath to merge with him. Strange/Arioch was never the one forcing a merge between the two and couldn't have even if he tried.
"Completely false, first: Shuma Gorath is not a God, therefore, he can not create anything"
- Shuma-Gorath is a God, once again. Where's your proof that Shuma-Gorath cannot create anything?
"Shuma Gorath is a Lord of Chaos and its nature is absolutely demonic and fucking parasitic, typical characteristic of the worst demons. Shuma Gorath is a Demon Class 3 and by its nature works exclusively to absorb the energies of other beings, worlds and merge with powerful sorcerers. Its magical powers is not unlimited simply because he can not produce its own magical powers, Shuma is conditioned to produce its magical powers and increase its power by the amount of energy through it can absorb from other beings and other worlds. It stands to reason that because of this, Shuma has ruled hundreds of dimensions to obtain a vast power due to large energy absorbed from these dimensions; therefore, its power is immense but is not infinite."
- Shuma-Gorath can add power to its own inherent power. It has an inherent power because it needs power in the first place in order to absorb power from others. It was already seen generating its own energy in battle with Strange before absorbing anything. "Shuma Gorath is a parasite and parasites are not glorified by anyone, due their very nature." Shuma doesn’t generate its own power; it can only produce magic power by absorbing energy from other beings.
- I know you believe with all your heart that this is true, but it isn't. It was shown on panel that Shuma-Gorath can generate its own power. How do you think Shuma generated the earth weapon? Or the ring of fire?
"Example, before being banished by Sise-Neg, it was seeing Shuma attacking the apes on earth, presumably, the amount of magic power was limited to the energies that could absorb from these apes."
- Can you see what you're typing? Apes don't have magic power. Shuma doesn't only drain magical energy. It can also drain life. It was just depicted eating the apes for the sake of wanting to eat them, not in order to gain "magic power". Unless apes have magic now? No, Shuma-Gorath had its own great, inherent power. It wasn't absorbing magic from apes and it hadn't absorbed the main universe it was in, meaning Shuma was functioning under its own power.
"The result that proves these is that Shuma energies were drained by Sise-Neg to the point that left Shuma in its slumbering state, ie, almost completely empty."
- Sise-Neg was almost God at that point and Shuma-Gorath was unaware of the situation which is the only reason its energy was able to be drawn away from it. Shuma's energy wasn't just energy from apes. It was put in slumber because the freakishly powerful Sise-Neg was able to draw much of Shuma's energy away.
"Otherwise, here we can see that if a being does have infinite magical powers, had never been drained until to fall asleep because his energies are just endless, infinity, limitless; simply Shuma never have fallen asleep. If Shuma was a God (in the hypothetical case), then Sise-Neg had been draining its energies for all eternity. This is proof that Shuma Gorath’s energies are not infinite."
- Nobody ever said that Shuma-Gorath's powers were limitless anywhere. A God only has limitless powers within its own pocket realm, which is separate from the main universe. That's how all Gods work. The only one in comicdom with absolutely limitless power anywhere in Marvel is TOAA.
"Only a God has unlimited power to create life and Cyttorak also has that power. Cyttorak truly has limitless powers in Crimson Cosmos, because of this; Strange could not merge with Cyttorak and was helpless in all senses."
- Cyttorak has only shown to be able to create life within his Crimson Cosmos. It's his own pocket universe separate from the main universe in which he dictates what goes on there. But here's where you are confused. Gods have unlimited power only within their own realms. And it's unlimited in the sense that it doesn't run out. A God can do whatever it can conceive of with that magic power because it is omnipotent/omnipresent within it (the God is the realm itself). However, when someone with even greater magic power enters the realm, that God's omnipotence becomes obsolete because now someone else even more powerful overrides them. This was seen when in the instance that Galactus started absorbing Mephisto's realm. All of a sudden Mephisto couldn't do whatever the heck he darn well pleased because a being of superior power was the one dictating the rules. Shuma-Gorath can do whatever it wants within its realm, but Strange was able to match him in power, because like Shuma-Gorath he now had unlimited energy coursing through him, and once he started turning into Shuma-Gorath itself he was then able to cause physical harm to Shuma-Gorath and turn its own energy against it.
"Wrong, Strange has always been empowered to use any type of magical power to banish everyone and so, he did it when transported Shuma to Stonehenge and managed to banish it beyond time and matter."
- He had to use the mystical energies of Stonehenge to open the gateway that would banish Shuma. It wasn't his own power that did the banishing or he could have done it without getting close to Shuma.
"It was Strange who banished Shuma no matter if he used the Stonehenge’s magic powers to banish it, Shuma Gorath could not absorb these energies and Strange beat him."
- Shuma-Gorath had absorbed just about all of Strange's energy, he even collapses almost immediately when he comes back. And if he used Stonehenge's magic to open the portal to banish Shuma, then it wasn't his own power that banished him, because he needed to use an historical site to do the banishing.
"Therefore, the Octessence can do the same to Shuma Gorath because among their magical abilities they can transport Shuma beyond time and matter as well. Shuma can be banished by the Octessence to a dimension beyond time and matter which can not ever return but without the need to go to Stonehenge (gateway) as Strange did it with Shuma. This would be a clear victory for Octessence via BFR."
- Conjecture, conjecture, conjecture. None of the Octessence has ever banished anybody. Shuma-Gorath has never banished anybody. However, it should be within both their power sets to do so. You can say The Octessence could banish Shuma and I could counter and say that Shuma could banish The Octessence but their will never be a definitive answer because neither have banished anyone. As such, trying to push the battle in favor of the Octessence by arguing "they could banish Shuma" won't really work.
"Above is the proof that Shuma can not generate its own energies, therefore, his mistical energies are limited to the amount of energy that can absorb from other beings. Shuma is a fucking parasite Demon; it never will be worshiped as a God, Cort"
- You didn't give any proof above. Shuma-Gorath was summoned, it decided it was hungry and started feeding on the Fantastic Four, Strange came and used Stonehenge to teleport him (in an off-panel battle no less). All that instance shows is that Shuma wanted to feed and would rather gain energy by feeding off people than waste energy by blowing things up for no reason. What does Shuma being worshipped or not have to do with anything? Serious question. In any case Shuma-Gorath was worshipped by all and obedience to its will was the wish of all creatures. Stated on panel by Ebora. So yea, it was worshipped even though worship doesn't define whether one is a God or not.
"Wrong, Sise-Neg he could do it"
- Sise-Neg surely doubted his own abilities in defeating Shuma-Gorath enough that he decided to put it to sleep. He knew Shuma-Gorath drained power and had to draw its energy away before it realized he was there. Yes he didn't want to lose his energy in doing battle with it - at the same time he wasn't sure he could even defeat it head on. Sise-Neg would have lost energy while Shuma would have gained energy. That doesn't look like a winning battle for Sise-Neg if it were indeed to lead to that. That speaks volumes for Shuma-Gorath's inherent power right there.
"because Shuma is a parasite and only feeds on the energies of its victims, again, it was clear Shuma’s energies were not unlimited because Sise-Neg drained just enough to put it to sleep and banish it. If Shuma had unlimited energy then Sise-Neg never would have done to drain enough until making it fall into the slumbering form. Shuma doesn’t have limitless magic energies, see above."
- Nobody is saying that Shuma-Gorath has unlimited magical energy anywhere, you're telling us what we already know. No Gods have unlimited energy in any place but their own pocket realm.
"These tiny motes of his memories are from Dr. Strange who had complete control to manipulate the surging sea of Arioch’s energy at his will to cut off a Shuma Gorath’s tentacle (octopus sushi) and destroy it physically. ; )"
- You've been trying to push this false claim that Strange/Arioch is equivalent to the Strange who journeyed to the Crimson Cosmos. But Strange/Arioch and normal Doctor Strange are not equivalent. It is even said immediately after Strange merges with Arioch that "Doctor Strange is no more". He was an almost entirely different entity consumed by evil energy, with a tiny bit of Strange's consciousness within him. The only reason he went through to fight Shuma is because that little aspect of Strange that was left never forgot the reason for the journey, which was to save the planet earth. Why are you making a case out of this anyway? It's very clear that it wasn't Strange as most people know him who was fighting Shuma-Gorath. It's clear he wasn't a mere mortal at the time of their battle.By the way, Strange/Arioch was unable to harm Shuma-Gorath until Shuma struck him and made Strange start the process of turning into Shuma-Gorath itself. Which is why it was even possible for Strange to harm Shuma.
"False, is a construct based on the inconsistent or incoherent interpretation of yours about what would happen if Strange/Arioch and Shuma do have infinite magical powers. If it had been well, they clash, and became equal, then they had never been destroyed each other, they had fought for all eternity and the idea of Strange's self-sacrifice would be pointless."
- The battle between Strange/Arioch and Shuma-Gorath was not entirely metaphorical. The idea of self-sacrifice was an aspect of the story but it wasn't all it was about. Granted it played a role but Strange needed to gain the power to back it up. Strange/Arioch was turning into Shuma-Gorath itself and was therefore able to wield the awesome power Shuma-Gorath generated. The self-sacrifice came into play when he decided to dedicate every aspect of himself into Shiva, the destroyer. This showed how committed he was to saving the earth from Shuma's cruelty and how he went from doubting himself for becoming a murderer (killing the Ancient One) to entirely embracing his evil nature that he was corrupted with. Self-sacrifice only played a role in Strange's inner turmoil. It doesn't change the fact that he had become Shuma-Gorath and wielded Shuma's awesome power. He became a monster to defeat a monster. Arioch's energy gave Strange that boost but it wasn't what let him destroy Shuma. It was his becoming Shuma-Gorath in all aspects that enabled him to defeat Shuma-Gorath. Shuma-Gorath even foreshadows it by quoting Friedrich Nietzsche "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself". He became a separate Shuma-Gorath within the realm, and after the battle was over the apparently destroyed Shuma-Gorath would have taken over Strange's ego.
"But they did not have these powers (as the parasitic nature of Shuma has been explained above) Strange being finite with some amount of black magic defeated Arioch and merged with him but under the control of Dr. Strange to destroy physically Shuma, so Strange merged with Shuma under the control of Dr. Strange too (Strange was not corrupted spiritually) when Shuma was destroyed physically; then Strange self- sacrificed his ego, so as to destroy spiritually Shuma Gorath temporarily. Here there was not a clash of entities with infinite powers because two entities with infinite magical powers can not be destroyed each other. Where are the infinite powers? None of these entities were demonstrated with infinite magical power."
- I already addressed this above. Strange/Arioch became Shuma-Gorath to defeat Shuma-Gorath. He became the entity who dictated control of the realm.
"Everything indicates that the plot is totally consistent if we consider both beings (Arioch and Shuma) have vast amounts of magical powers but not limitless."
- I think you're confusing "infinite" and "limitless". Infinite is in the sense that the magic power cannot run out. Limitless refers to the scope of that power. A God's power is infinite within its own pocket realm. It's never going to run out. It's only limitless in the sense that it can do whatever it can conceive. In that sense, all Gods powers are limited to their imagination. And they are all the supreme being within their realm until one of greater power comes in, in which case the one with greater power is the new omnipotent. Again, look back at the Mephisto/Galactus example.
"Arioch had great power but was not equaled than Shuma who had more magical powers, however, when Strange absorbed Arioch’s magical energies increased his magical powers of evil to the point that he did have a sufficient level of power to confront and destroy Shuma Gorath."
- His power was enough to confront Shuma but it was never enough to actually harm it until Strange/Arioch was already in the process of becoming Shuma itself.
"The idea of Strange’s self-sacrifice was to prevent the corruption of his spirit and prevent the resurgence of Shuma if he were using some spell in the name of. How do you explain that a finite being as Strange was able to control a being with infinite powers within?"
- Because Strange was the one who forced the merging. Also plot.
"Impossible, therefore, the logic remains that Shuma Gorath’s powers were not infinite, were vast but not infinite, so Shuma was controlled and neutralized by Strange/Arioch (Shuma was destroyed) before Shuma could destroy the earth and before the self-sacrifice of Strange’s ego to prevent its resurgence".
- It's only impossible because you want it to be that way. Steve Englehart wrote the story. It was Strange's journey from the beginning so he's not going to erase the Doctor Strange personality from a Doctor Strange comic just because he fused. Who would read the story then? It also wouldn't make sense because if Arioch was the one in control after the merging then a) the fusion would be pointless because it'd be a self-defeat for Strange and b) Arioch wouldn't continue to confront Shuma.
"The full truth, if Shuma Gorath being a parasitic Demon that works by absorbing energies and merging with others had infinite magical powers, then Shuma generate its own unlimited magic power, Shuma never need to feed on other energy to produce its own, never weaken, never have fallen asleep when much of its supposed infinite magic energy was drained by Sise-Neg, had never been physically destroyed, it had never been weak and hungry, never had ceased itself to be transported to Stonehenge and being banished by Strange invoking the simple magic of Stonehenge. Therefore, all this shows that Shuma has no infinite magical energies because he had all these problems that clearly indicate the limits of its mystical energies."
- All of those instances you mentioned refer to when Shuma-Gorath was outside of its pocket dimension. And nobody ever said that Shuma-Gorath had unlimited energy in every single place in the Marvel Universe. I believe I already explained to you multiple times above how Shuma was able to be defeated within its realm. "I said it before Shuma is a parasite Demon, Shuma only has capacity to absorb energy from other beings and is not capable of generating its own energy as opposed to Cyttorak who does it and does have limitless magic energies."
- Shuma-Gorath is a Lord of Chaos, not a "parasite Demon". Marvel has no definition of a parasite demon anywhere. Shuma-Gorath has been called a Lord of Chaos and a God. Never a parasite demon. Stop making up terms that don't exist for characters you didn't write about. Shuma-Gorath is capable of absorbing energy from others but that is in addition to its own inherent power. You can't have power to force power away from others if you don't have your own inherent power to back it up. I love how you just throw Cyttorak in there again as if he is an exception to everything in Marvel everywhere, you know, just because you say so. "Both are beings that they can not kill each other. Shuma can not drain a magical being with infinite magic power as Cyttorak for all eternity and who can not be destroyed."
- Shuma has shown to feed off of anything it has targeted and devours entire actualities. He could devour the Crimson Cosmos if he wanted to, seeing as that's a pocket universe as well. Sise-Neg was almost completely done with the end of his journey and Shuma was the ONLY thing in the way of him absorbing all the energy in the main universe. Yet he was STILL weary of trying to destroy Shuma head on. This shows me that Cyttorak wouldn't have a chance.
-All of the members of the Octessence are only omnipotent within their own realms, just like Shuma-Gorath (only omnipotent in its own realm). However, Shuma-Gorath has the added advantage in that it can absorb energy from outside sources. The OP's battle is in a neutral realm, meaning nobody in this battle is omnipotent. Shuma would be the only one able to get stronger by feeding off of Octessence magic and possibly devouring the entities themselves.
Shuma can not be destroyed with black magic but it can be weakened and banished out of his dimension. It is clear that there can be a victory for the Octessence via BFR, or be a stalemate battle.
- Or Shuma just does the practical thing and destroys all of the Octessence with its superior power.
"Shuma "Was weak and hungry",then, you recognize how limited are the magic energies of Shuma Gorath. I congratulate you, then, where is the supposed ability to generate its own infinite energy? where are its limitless magical energies which doesn’t let it in any second to be weak or energy-hungry? See above ^__^"
- Well, you feel proud of yourself, and I guess that's important. It almost makes me sorry to say again that you're stating the obvious. Nobody said Shuma-Gorath was omnipotent everywhere. The difference between Shuma and Gods like Cyttorak is that Shuma can venture out of its realm and be super powerful outside of it because of its ability to absorb all types of energy and even entire actualities, whereas Cyttorak and the rest of his cronies are practically useless out of their little pocket universes.
"Wrong, they have been proven to be superior because each entity has vast magical powers and ability to banish powerful magical beings, however, Cyttorak has proven to be the most powerful ofall them because he is the only God/Demon with unlimited magical powers in his Crimson Cosmos. The Octessence has the power to banish a parasite like Shuma Gorath, if Strange who is one being less than the Octessence did it, nothing indicates that they can not do it the Octessence due Shuma doesn't have unlimited powers within or outside of its realm"
- I ask you, when have any of The Octessence used their power to banish anyone? All you're posting is conjecture at this point. Not to mention, it's all fine and dandy that Cyttorak is powerful within the Crimson Cosmos, but this battle isn't in the Crimson Cosmos. It's in a neutral realm, where Cyttorak doesn't have unlimited power, but Shuma can gain power because it absorbs actualities. Shuma-Gorath is omnipotent within its realm just like Cyttorak is omnipotent within his realm or like other Gods are omnipotent within their realms. They are unlimited/omnipotent until someone of a greater degree in power comes in and forces them to keep their mouths shut. Just look at Pre-Retcon Beyonder. He was defeating with ease all sorts of beings who have omnipotence within their realms. Their omnipotence didn't mean anything to PR Beyonder though because his degree of omnipotence dwarfed all of theirs. "Dr. Strange with all his preparation, knowledge and limitations defeated Shuma Gorath two times in which he once banished it. Dr. Strange as Sorcerer Supreme is a being completely inferior than Cyttorak; even he is not comparable with Cyttorak under any aspect. Strange was helpless against him and he can’t go against his own magic spell (Octessence’s magic entities) to the point that had to give them up once time. This makes me think, then, Cyttorak and the rest of the Octessence have the power to banish Shuma to another dimension of no return and win by BFR, is a valid opinion based on what The Exemplars (Octessence’s avatars), Strange (as a catalyst for measuring magic power) and Cyttorak have done."
- Strange collapsed the Ancient One's mind in order to close Shuma's gateway and the second time used Stonehenge's energy. Both were very circumstancial. What's Strange going to do to Cyttorak within the Crimson Cosmos, banish him outside of his own realm? LOL. You're trying to compare completely different situations.
"Even the same Shuma told Strange was still a mortal, also Strange did have his tiny motes of memories, fears, etc. from his human spirit that did have full control of all Arioch’s power, who wasn’t God."
- Shuma called Strange a mortal because he detected that aspect of Strange. However Strange/Arioch corrected Shuma and revealed that he was no longer a mere mortal. He was a God. Arioch was a Lord of Chaos, a God. Strange merged with...are you ready? A God. It's quite simple.
"Shuma has no power to banish a God, this was never occurred in the comics but it was shown that Shuma can be banished by Strange. Again, Shuma is not a God; Shuma is a demonic parasite and its powers come from the absorption of energy from other creatures. Again, Shuma energies were drained by Sise-Neg until it fell asleep, so Shuma’s energies does have limits."
- Shuma has never banished anyone, sure. But I can't recall a single instance of any of the Octessence banishing somebody either. Conjecture doesn't work well in arguments buddy. Yes, keep telling us what we already know.
I'm starting to get carpel tunnel, guys. I can feel it.
choose to ignore my first post ( which rebutted every single point of yours )
, and choose instead to quote my second post ( where I was defending myself from personal attacks ), and then tell me that I went off topic. Shows to me that you're scared to have an actual debate with me.
Anyways, there's not much more to say. I've made my point, and I've backed it up with actual evidences. If you still want to call me a troll and an "epic fail", go right ahead. But don't think that it'll change the fact that I beat you in the debate because you offered absolutely nothing to back up what you said. It also puzzles me that you got so butthurt and started screaming just because people called you a liar several times. That kind of response would have come from no one but a small and insecure child.
I honestly don't want anything more to do with you. And believe me, you do not want to mess with
chunjacktao
. "
Save the bull for the ones that will actually belive it. Do you even know the definition of "owned" ? No for sure you don't since you would realise than that actually you were owned. You see when you own someone you completly dominate him in every aspect and not the oposite (like in your case).
You made your point ? Don't make me laugh. You were simply saying illogical bull in your posts. And about lying . Well you're the biggest liar here (along with your boy ). Since acusing me that I posted some shit about Brandon Lee it's the pure example. Face it YOU"RE A COMPLETE FAIL.
Danilo018- We'll take a look at your post and we'll see who's the real "epic fail" now shall we?
@Danilo018
said:
You were simply saying illogical bull in your posts.
Really? Then why don't you actually try proving which part of my post was "illogical bull." If you can't prove anything then maybe its time to stop talking before you embarrass yourself even further?
@Danilo018 said:
Face it YOU"RE A COMPLETE FAIL. "
I think everyone here should know by now who's the real "complete fail". @Danilo018 said:
You made your point ? Don't make me laugh.
That's right, I made my point and backed it up with scans. I also managed to not look like a weeping retard along the way, something that you failed to do. You know that you've lost. Now accept defeat like a man.
@Danilo018 said:
You see when you own someone you completly dominate him in every aspect and not the oposite (like in your case).
So how exactly did you, ahem, "dominate me in every aspect"?
By proving to me that you don't know what a demon is? By proving to me you don't know the meaning of the word "realm"? By not providing any scans, proof, or evidences for any of the trash that came out of your mouth? By lying and then getting caught?
Right, you reaaaaaaaaaaaally "dominated" me there in "every single aspect". Or did you?
@Danilo018 said:
No for sure you don't since you would realise than that actually you were owned.
Yea keep that up man. You're actually beginning to amuse me.
@Danilo018 said:
Do you even know the definition of "owned" ?
Yea I think I do. It's what happened to you at this thread, and is happening to you at this very moment right?
@Danilo018 said:
Save the bull for the ones that will actually belive it.
Pretty sure everyone here believes me by now except for you. Deep down you know that I'm right too, you just don't want to admit it..........
Danil018:
There. I've broken down your paragraph and I've showned everyone just how idiotic your post is. If you stop right now, it's still not too late. But if you continue calling me an epic fail, you're only going to get yourself whipped again and again and again, and then nailed again and again and again some more.
Anyhow, you're going to get banned, and I don't want you to drag me down with you.
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