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#1 Posted by Alex7861able (41 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are at their peak.

#2 Posted by Kraden (106 posts) - - Show Bio

You do realize that its Obi Wan who finishes him off right? And kills him again in the animated clone wars show...

#3 Edited by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

Kenobi. Maul was at his peak in TPM, whereas Obi Wan was at his peak right after RoTS. While Maul is a fantastic duelist, Obi Wan's mastery of Soresu will allow him to keep Maul at bay due to his impeccable defensive capacity. Maul, being the arrogant, overconfident man he is, will try something high risk or flashy to try and get through Kenobi's defense, and Kenobi will exploit the opening.

Maul goes down, but it isnt an easy fight for Kenobi.

And they've fought in the continuity twice or more (if you count the new Clone Wars series). Once on Naboo, where Obi Wan ultimately won due to Maul's overconfidence and not finishing Kenobi off, and again on Tattooine, where Kenobi killed him in a duel.

#4 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (4987 posts) - - Show Bio

@steelhound56 said:

again on Tattooine, where Kenobi killed him in a duel.

I was under the impression this was non-canon.

#5 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@steelhound56 said:

again on Tattooine, where Kenobi killed him in a duel.

I was under the impression this was non-canon.

It is non-canon.

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#6 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Andy Steven Summers said:

@steelhound56 said:

again on Tattooine, where Kenobi killed him in a duel.

I was under the impression this was non-canon.

It was non-canon. 
 
@steelhound56 said: 

And they've fought in the continuity twice or more (if you count the new Clone Wars series). Once on Naboo, where Obi Wan ultimately won due to Maul's overconfidence 

Is Maul in TCW equal with TPM Maul? His legs are obviously different, and that should change some things, right? Also, didn't Maul employ a single bladed lightsaber in TCW rather than his dual blade? 
 
@Kraden said:

You do realize that its Obi Wan who finishes him off right? And kills him again in the animated clone wars show...

Until Obi-Wan actually kills Maul in TCW and until we have confirmation that Maul in TCW is equal to Maul in TPM, this is irrelevant.
#7 Posted by Alex7861able (41 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver2467: Who do you think wins?

#8 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: When I got to chat with Sam Witwer about the role, he threw in the following.

But, of course we get to see him demonstrate his battle prowess. He’s as dangerous as he ever was, probably more so.

Maul wasn't doing anything impressive at first, but he schooled Obi-Wan in the second half. He is using a single blade and had a rather impressive agility feat right off the bat. (0:47)

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#9 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: My apologies, didn't realize their duel on Tattooine was non canon

#10 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: Interesting. Thanks for the info. 
 
On a sidenote, why was Maul talking during his duel with Obi-Wan? He always made a point not to practice Dun Moch and even went so far as to consider speaking before or during a fight a waste of time; rather, he just preferred to fight and kill his opponent as quickly as possible. 
 
@Alex7861able said:

Silver2467: Who do you think wins?

Not really sure. I would have to give this more thought. 
 
@steelhound56 said:

@Silver2467: My apologies, didn't realize their duel on Tattooine was non canon

No problem.
#11 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: I imagine it's due to his raw hatred and desire to make Obi-Wan suffer. Maul went all "Gollum" for years after the Obi-Wan slice and dice. He doesn't want to best him in battle, he wants to torture the man until his final breath.

Ooooor, probably because it's the cartoon and they can do whatever they want ;D

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#12 Posted by Kraden (106 posts) - - Show Bio

I was only making the point that this battle is kinda pointless since the fight has already been concluded...

#13 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kraden said:

I was only making the point that this battle is kinda pointless since the fight has already been concluded...

The conclusion on Naboo was with Obi-Wan having lost the actual duel. If that was the conclusion you were referring to, it detracts from a case for Obi-Wan. 
 
@k4tzm4n said:

@Silver2467: I imagine it's due to his raw hatred and desire to make Obi-Wan suffer. Maul went all "Gollum" for years after the Obi-Wan slice and dice. He doesn't want to best him in battle, he wants to torture the man until his final breath.

Ooooor, probably because it's the cartoon and they can do whatever they want ;D

LOL.
#14 Posted by Alex7861able (41 posts) - - Show Bio

But doesn't Obi wan say in Rots have a much better chance? He's now a jedi master, on the council, has mastered soresu to an incredible level, and not even Dooku could penetrate his defenses with a light saber.

#15 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alex7861able said:

But doesn't Obi wan say in Rots have a much better chance? He's now a jedi master, on the council, has mastered soresu to an incredible level,

Of course, he has a better chance; that was why I said that using the Naboo encounter is detrimental to an argument for Obi-Wan. 
 

and not even Dooku could penetrate his defenses with a light saber.

Not really true. Dooku did land melee strikes on Obi-Wan during their duel, and this was while he was under pressure from both Anakin and Obi-Wan together. He ultimately defeated Obi-Wan with a Force attack, but that was because he needed to remove Obi-Wan from the fight because fighting both him and Skywalker at once was more of a challenge than Dooku anticipated. It does not mean Obi-Wan could actually have lasted against Dooku or that Dooku would be unable to beat him were it a one-on-one.
#16 Posted by .Spider-man. (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-Clone Wars Maul takes it. Once Obi mastered Soresu the tide turns.

#17 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: What are your thoughts, sir?
#18 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: .... the fanboy is strong in me ;)

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#19 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: Haha. Well, it is possible that Maul could end up winning. In a way, I almost want to wait for the next season of TCW to air to so we can see what the future developments will be, but the next season is still months away, right? Probably not worth putting off that long. Also, while Obi-Wan during the Clone Wars was fast approaching Obi-Wan by RotS, RotS was when he hit his prime. Even still, the video you posted is definitely indicative. 
 
In a way, I think Maul might be a little more skilled and could theoretically win a majority, but Obi-Wan's style could account for Maul's dual blades and aggressiveness. This is a tough call.
#20 Edited by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Yes, it's quite a wait until next season.

What's especially interesting is they have Obi say "we're outmatched" in regards to he and Ventress vs Maul / Savage :O

Obviously that's not a deciding factor of... well, anything, I just thought it was worth pointing out.

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#21 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: It is worth pointing out. I also am curious about whether Maul will ever bring his double blade to bear again, because, honestly, he just doesn't seem like Maul without it. 
 
Did Maul show any particular improvement in Force power in TCW, or is he about the same as he was before?
#22 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: His return was the cliffhanger. Dark magic restored his mind and body and the video posted is all we've unfortunately seen from him so far (in regards to combat).

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#23 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: All right. Well, this is TPM Maul at any rate, but I only asked because of Witwer's comment about his skills being equal with what they were before.  
 
Overall, I think Obi-Wan is probably more powerful, based on feats, but we really never have seen Maul cut loose with his powers. We have seen him use Lightsaber Throw, Choke, and telekinetically shatter doors and hurl several people away. But that is about the extent of the offensive power we have seen from him, and those showings are only moderate. Now, Maul was meant to be a duelist rather than a Force powerhouse; so this is understandable. But it is somewhat frustrating comparing Kenobi's feats to his when Maul has never been in a situation that required him to put his all into his Force output. On the other hand, we have seen Obi-Wan move ships, use Lightsaber Throw, injure Durge telekinetically, drop large machines, and so on. He does also have a few other tricks, like rendering himself immovable and using Deflection. (Of course, most of these will probably not turn up in a straight duel but could be worth mentioning depending on the scenario, and speaking of which, I wish the OP was more detailed.) That could help Obi-Wan if he needed to gather breathing room by pushing Maul away, for instance, but I doubt it would dramatically alter the outcome. Also, Obi-Wan being a more potent telekinetic (based on demonstrated showings, that is) could help him in repelling Maul's attempts to TK him. The duel, as in a contest of pure skill and style vs style, is where I draw a blank though, because I just have no idea what would happen there.
 
By the way, do you have any plans to read through TWoDM in the foreseeable future? Because for someone who follows TCW, it really is important material.
#24 Posted by JediXMan (29242 posts) - - Show Bio

Obi-Wan wins.

< Is ignoring and will disregard any feats for pseudo-Maul from TCWD.

#25 Edited by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Honestly, I can't say I plan to in my near future.

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#26 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@k4tzm4n: Haha. Well, it is possible that Maul could end up winning. In a way, I almost want to wait for the next season of TCW to air to so we can see what the future developments will be, but the next season is still months away, right? Probably not worth putting off that long. Also, while Obi-Wan during the Clone Wars was fast approaching Obi-Wan by RotS, RotS was when he hit his prime. Even still, the video you posted is definitely indicative. In a way, I think Maul might be a little more skilled and could theoretically win a majority, but Obi-Wan's style could account for Maul's dual blades and aggressiveness. This is a tough call.

Well considering that Obi-Wan in his prime during ROTS had little problem with Grievous' aggressiveness and massive advantage with 4 sabers and strongly held his own against Anakin/Vader , Maul shouldn't be that much more of a threat. That's just my view.

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#27 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said: 

Well considering that Obi-Wan in his prime during ROTS had little problem with Grievous' aggressiveness and massive advantage with 4 sabers and strongly held his own against Anakin/Vader , Maul shouldn't be that much more of a threat. That's just my view.

He did not have "little" trouble with Grievous at all; in fact, Grievous managed to overwhelm his defenses at a certain point. As for Anakin, Obi-Wan knew every nuance of his style, and Anakin's powers, skills, and overall efficiency were lacking in that fight. 
 
In no way does this render Maul's abilities moot against him. 
 
@k4tzm4n said:

@Silver2467: Honestly, I can't say I plan to in my near future.

Unfortunate. 
 
@JediXMan said:

Obi-Wan wins.

< Is ignoring and will disregard any feats for pseudo-Maul from TCWD.

LOL.
#28 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Near future. I've been busy with my job hunt and all that. It is on my radar down the road, though.

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#29 Posted by Goku1fan (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kraden said:

You do realize that its Obi Wan who finishes him off right? And kills him again in the animated clone wars show...

#30 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: Fair enough.
#31 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goku1fan said:

@Kraden said:

You do realize that its Obi Wan who finishes him off right? And kills him again in the animated clone wars show...

  • It's hardly that simply, especially seeing as Obi-Wan's victory is highly circumstantial.
  • You don't for a fact if Obi-Wan is the one to kill Maul in TCW or how if it happens. It's an entirely moot point and purely speculative.
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#32 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Never said the abilities in his disposal were moot, but the fact that he stood up to Maul as an inexperienced Padawan (while obviously Maul toyed with him), proves he has a far better chance against him in his prime being a significantly better duelist and force user.

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#33 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: Him faring better as a master than a Padawan is not a guarantee that he would win. As it stands, I question Obi-Wan's chances here.
#34 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Interesting logic. What makes you say so?

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#35 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: For one, Obi-Wan never did that well against Maul as a Padawan in the first place. He even drew on the dark side to augment his physical power and still was inferior to Maul in their duel. As a master, his skills were better but not to the level that people often exaggerate. The problem is that people often have no idea what Obi-Wan was capable of as a Padawan. As a master, he was still only an equal with Asajj Ventress, who is at best is even with Maul in raw skill, and even that is being generous to her. And for the record, Obi-Wan's performance against Ventress is the single most consistent skill showing on his part, because he has fought Ventress in a serious way more than any other character, and he and Ventress generally fight as equals until interrupted or occasionally beat one another. Based on his consistent showings, he is not that far ahead of Maul, if at all. Maul has beaten duelists of Master Obi-Wan's caliber before, and Kenobi has no demonstrated skill feats to so plainly put him above Maul.
#36 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Straight-forward and blunt answer. I like it. Personally, I like to disregard anything The Clone Wars displays but as you said, it's displayed most of Obi-Wan's more consistant showings.

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#37 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: TCW is hardly the only place that Obi-Wan and Ventress have fought. They dueled at least four times in Republic alone.
#38 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Republic? Also, isn't Obi-Wan during TCW inferior to his appearance in ROTS.

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#39 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: Republic
 
He is marginally inferior, but even by the end of the war, Obi-Wan and Ventress were still portrayed as equals.
#40 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: I'll give you one good reason to read Republic: Durge.

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#41 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: @k4tzm4n: Ah I see. Personally, I'm far more interested in The Old Republic era than the Republic era but I'll eventually get to it.

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#42 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

Rise of the Empire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Old Republic. 
 
Not even comparable really. 
 
@k4tzm4n : You reading through Republic, or are you just reading the Durge appearances?

#43 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Rise of the Empire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Old Republic.

Not even comparable really.

@k4tzm4n : You reading through Republic, or are you just reading the Durge appearances?

I never said Rise of the Empire was inferior, I just simply stated my disinterest in the Republic era.

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#44 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: My post was not meant as a direct response to you. I was just stating a general opinion. 
 
And there is no solitary "Republic" era. There is the Old Republic and New Republic era, but those are different.
#45 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: My apologies. Wouldn't the New Republic be proceeding the original trilogy?

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#46 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: Yes, NR started a year following RotJ.
#47 Posted by k4tzm4n (36110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Rise of the Empire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Old Republic.

Not even comparable really.

@k4tzm4n : You reading through Republic, or are you just reading the Durge appearances?

I have the trade with Durge. I haven't read anything else.

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#48 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Ah, I was mixing up the Jedi order seen during the prequel trilogy with Luke's reborn order.

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#49 Posted by silvanus (57 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Maul takes the majority

#50 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (769 posts) - - Show Bio

Could go either way