#101 Posted by Kinasin_ (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Kinasin_ said:

Batman. He already bested her in h2h.

When?

Counters Wonder Woman’s every move while trying to talk her down as Wonder Woman is unable to defeat Batman with her skill or hold him with her magical lasso. Wonder Woman ends up having to use her powers (super strength and speed) to take Batman down (JLA: A League of One)

#102 Posted by Static Shock (49109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_: As far as I'm concerned, Batman didn't best anyone there.. He doesn't even use hand-to-hand against her in that fight and neither does she. You're misinterpreting those scans.

#103 Posted by Kinasin_ (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Kinasin_: As far as I'm concerned, Batman didn't best anyone there.. He doesn't even use hand-to-hand against her in that fight and neither does she. You're misinterpreting those scans.

To each his own I suppose. I do see where you are coming from now that I look it over. There has been other instances though where it is a h2h showing.

Shown gaining the upperhand on Wonder Woman in their sparring contest having her pinned to the ground until she uses her super strength to break free of his hold (JLA Secret Files #3)

Stuns Wonder Woman in place with a blow to the ears causing her intense pain (Wonder Woman #212)

Does very well against demon possessed Wonder Woman gaining the upperhand on her with his skill until she brings down a bunch of debris on him using her super strength (JLA: Scary Monsters #6)

#104 Posted by Saren (27201 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_: LOL, how did you look at those scans and not think they were PIS?

Moderator
#105 Posted by Kinasin_ (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Kinasin_: LOL, how did you look at those scans and not think they were PIS?

Just laying out instances. PIS or not.

#106 Posted by Static Shock (49109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_: He snuck up on her in the first scans. Impressive, considering Batman's stealth skills. The Super Powers fight looks a little off. He's hurting Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman with physical blows, even though he admits that she has invulnerability? Makes no sense (and I question its continuity since Wonder Woman doesn't wear heels, Post-Crisis/Pre-52, Aquaman hasn't been a founding member of the Justice League since after COIE and up until the New 52, and that Flash appears to be Barry). The Demon Wonder Woman instance is sketchy, too. There's a possibility should could have been weakened there. The other with her blindfolded is fine (since it's a pressure point attack). I have something better than all of that, though.

Considering Wonder Woman is physically better than Batman across the board, these scans make more sense.

#107 Posted by Static Shock (49109 posts) - - Show Bio

But, if Wonder Woman was depowered, she'd lose. She's not as skilled as Bruce, if it was just skill. I just wanted to show that even with his skills (and she had powers), he couldn't contend with her.

#108 Posted by Kinasin_ (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Kinasin_: He snuck up on her in the first scans. Impressive, considering Batman's stealth skills. The Super Powers fight looks a little off. He's hurting Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman with physical blows, even though he admits that she has invulnerability? Makes no sense (and I question its continuity since Wonder Woman doesn't wear heels, Post-Crisis/Pre-52, Aquaman hasn't been a founding member of the Justice League since after COIE and up until the New 52, and that Flash appears to be Barry). The Demon Wonder Woman instance is sketchy, too. There's a possibility should could have been weakened there. The other with her blindfolded is fine (since it's a pressure point attack). I have something better than all of that, though.

Considering Wonder Woman is physically better than Batman across the board, these scans make more sense.

Those scans she's also using her super strength. Considering one punch she knocks him straight out of the ballpark so to speak. The one you questioned as not being canon, should be considering it takes place in Batman Confidential #53, which was a canon series last time I checked. Although it is obviously PIS considering what he is pulling off. Still just an instance I wanted to show.

This showing she also looked better although it's hard to tell how much she uses her strength/speed in relation to pure skilll. Overall with no powers Batman should be superior to her in martial arts going by what is shown in each of their series. I don't remember diana mastering more martial arts then bruce or using skill over her powers for the most part. Although she does combine the two she tends to rely on her powers too much while batman can only rely on skill/tech.

While being busy taking care on the comm-line of one or two cases, business, the painting of something, and charity work, Batman spares with Wonder Woman and fairs well (JLA #61)

#109 Posted by Static Shock (49109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_ said:

Those scans she's also using her super strength. Considering one punch she knocks him straight out of the ballpark so to speak. The one you questioned as not being canon, should be considering it takes place in Batman Confidential #53, which was a canon series last time I checked. Although it is obviously PIS considering what he is pulling off. Still just an instance I wanted to show.

This showing she also looked better although it's hard to tell how much she uses her strength/speed in relation to pure skilll. Overall with no powers Batman should be superior to her in martial arts going by what is shown in each of their series. I don't remember diana mastering more martial arts then bruce or using skill over her powers for the most part. Although she does combine the two she tends to rely on her powers too much while batman can only rely on skill/tech.

While being busy taking care on the comm-line of one or two cases, business, the painting of something, and charity work, Batman spares with Wonder Woman and fairs well (JLA #61)

I was just addressing that Batman has never legitimately bested Diana, sans any sparring matches or PIS. But, I agree that Batman is more skilled than she is, though. Even in the majority of her fights, she relies more on her powers than skills, and doesn't use it until she remembers that she actually has them (her most recent fight with Power Girl is a perfect example).

#110 Posted by Kinasin_ (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Kinasin_ said:

Those scans she's also using her super strength. Considering one punch she knocks him straight out of the ballpark so to speak. The one you questioned as not being canon, should be considering it takes place in Batman Confidential #53, which was a canon series last time I checked. Although it is obviously PIS considering what he is pulling off. Still just an instance I wanted to show.

This showing she also looked better although it's hard to tell how much she uses her strength/speed in relation to pure skilll. Overall with no powers Batman should be superior to her in martial arts going by what is shown in each of their series. I don't remember diana mastering more martial arts then bruce or using skill over her powers for the most part. Although she does combine the two she tends to rely on her powers too much while batman can only rely on skill/tech.

While being busy taking care on the comm-line of one or two cases, business, the painting of something, and charity work, Batman spares with Wonder Woman and fairs well (JLA #61)

I was just addressing that Batman has never legitimately bested Diana, sans any sparring matches or PIS. But, I agree that Batman is more skilled than she is, though. Even in the majority of her fights, she relies more on her powers than skills, and doesn't use it until she remembers that she actually has them (her most recent fight with Power Girl is a perfect example).

Oh, ok. We are under the same mindset then.

#111 Posted by DTFB (200 posts) - - Show Bio

I could possibly see him take all three considering she is depowered so there for he will be stronger and bigger and not sure about fastest........but more durable witch is usually the other way around. then you add his skill to that he would have her beat in pretty much ever category.

#112 Posted by rpgr (333 posts) - - Show Bio

Without her powers, no way Batman loses to Diana. With her powers Batman has a chance to best her. Without, it shouldn't even be close

#113 Posted by henryarguelles5 (375 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to say Wonder Woman...but the feats back up Batman. OP doesn't mention morals, but if morals off...Wonder Woman goes for the kill, and probably gets it.

#114 Posted by FMStyyx (749 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Id say bats has it better as a no powers fighter.. and wonder woman doesnt.. bats knows how to take people down.. wonder woman does too but not to the extent that bats does.. shes like superman.. has training but bc of powers doesnt make use of it to the extent bats does.. bats would beat a depowered superman despite all his training in all those arts.. and id have to say bats would beat her.. not everyday of the week but hed beat her..

#115 Edited by Nessy (600 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish someone posted that WW vs Batman scan in the Yip Man vs Batman thread. (The one where he's holding her down on the first page, I haven't read the comic and have no idea of context but still).

#116 Posted by Thinkagain (47 posts) - - Show Bio

That scan of batman and wonder woman seemed more like a friendly training session + flirting by Diana that bruce missed. I don't think their is much to be said about it meaning anything in a match up. She didn't seem to be resisting him at all, seems more like she was testing/training him then anything else.

#117 Edited by Nessy (600 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thinkagain said:

That scan of batman and wonder woman seemed more like a friendly training session + flirting by Diana that bruce missed. I don't think their is much to be said about it meaning anything in a match up. She didn't seem to be resisting him at all, seems more like she was testing/training him then anything else.

I assumed that to be the case. I hate it when someone in a comic manages to overpower someone literally millions (trillions?) of times stronger/faster than they are because they used training/caught them by surprise.

#118 Posted by Om4zd (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman IMO.

But anything could happen.

#119 Posted by FMStyyx (749 posts) - - Show Bio

They should have the dc world depowered.. so i can watch batman be the go to hero at ALL times!!

#120 Posted by Thinkagain (47 posts) - - Show Bio

After finishing the thread it's hard to call but I think it's hard to place wonder woman's strength level without powers. The way I look at it is like steroids can allow an athlete train at a higher level ww's powers allow her to train at a level way higher then the average human. So reducing her down to the average human level isn't accurate her superpowers would be gone but her base speed, endurance, strength, reflexes and etc would all be increased to a level far superior to the average human. That conditioning wouldn't leave her just because her powers left. Given the amazonian training regimen and her fighting/training since youth she should be far above average with her powers removed.

I think scans of confrontations of the two going against each other show that she was emotional (has feelings for bruce) on top of the fact she's controlling her strength to begin with. Being able to let loose would be an advantage for her and bats knowing he could hurt her would be hindered. When she realizes he's holding back she'd be insulted and let loose while bruce would fight holding back.

I can't name a winner yet but I'm leaning WW all three so far.

Same here it really irks me to see that as well.

#121 Posted by Om4zd (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

For everyone who is using what Batman said about Wonder Woman as backup.

Melee= A brawl. Confused, hand-to-hand fighting in a pitched battle. A violent free-for-all.

#122 Posted by Typhion (660 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why we're even posting scans of Bat's fighting WW while she still has her strength, speed, and reflexes. She might have been holding back, but they were available to her. Holding back, and suddenly having to put in genuine effort to break a wrist lock are 2 different things.

WW wins round 1...maybe..I'll go 51/49.

Bats in 2

Bats with ease in 3.

Why? Size and strength. Folks, without powers she's a regular woman who's what? 5'10" 160lbs? Given her shape and size, I'd guess she might be able to dead lift around 225 lbs (that's using scans of her when she actually looks muscular...if you don't, she caps out around 115 lbs). Meanwhile Bats is about 6'2" or so and 230? Well, I'm 6' flat and 200 flat, and I deadlift about 365, so I'll guess Bruce, who's in amazing condition, would beat that with ease. He's likely twice as strong as Diana and half again as heavy. THERE IS A REASON YOU HAVE WEIGHT CLASSES. He's way too much for a de-powered Diana without weapons. They're both tremendously skilled, but if you go to what the next edges would be, that's in favor of the Batman very very easily.

#123 Posted by Om4zd (1096 posts) - - Show Bio

No other WW fanboys?

#124 Posted by NEEK_03 (1293 posts) - - Show Bio

batman takes this, he simply is better when she is depowered. he has better feats using pure skill.

#125 Posted by chromebug (41 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman" she's the best melee fighter in the world"

Batman"not my world"

#126 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1196 posts) - - Show Bio

please batman easily.

#127 Posted by fanofsuperheroes (224 posts) - - Show Bio

For everyone who is determining that Diana has that skill set of power with amazonian training that makes her deadly, you have to also refer to the same estimation of Batman. His skill set is trained MA AS WELL AS all his gadgets AND HIS PREP before battle. That is what makes him deadly. Take away his prep and toys and he's not that amazing. That's what the OP did, take away her power and his extra's so now you have to rely on skill sets alone. Yes WW usually uses her super power for battles, DUH, she is battling super powered beings. How long was she training with the Amazons BEFORE she became WW?? I'm pretty sure it was at least 20 or so years as she is a full adult woman when she becomes WW. Part of that training is finding an opponents weakness. Batman may have a more variety of fighting technique, but he is human and what it comes down to is......is he better at the vast array of MA he knows than she is at her amazonian skill? I'm not an expert at any specific fighting technique but I have taken Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Aikido and honestly after a while they started blending together. If he knows 12 different forms of fighting I would bet money that they blend together to form one single form of fighting for Bruce and not 12.

I personally think that no one will win. Both are peak fighters.

#128 Edited by moywar700 (3013 posts) - - Show Bio

I saw a scan where an regular amazon fought batman with unarmed combat and she won. Wonder Woman should be able to do the same thing.

#129 Posted by ComicStooge (18550 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

#130 Edited by moywar700 (3013 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

Batman was sneaking around and an amazon found him. The amazon beat him unarmed but batman able to drug her and make her pass out.Despite this, the amazon beat him at unarmed combat.it was a fair fight.

#131 Posted by moywar700 (3013 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

@ComicStooge said:

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

Batman was sneaking around and an amazon found him. They started at each other for like one panel and started to fight unarmed. The amazon beat him unarmed but batman able to gas her and make her pass out.Despite this, the amazon beat him at unarmed combat.it was a fair fight.

#132 Posted by Saren (27201 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

@ComicStooge said:

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

Batman was sneaking around and an amazon found him. They started at each other for like one panel and started to fight unarmed. The amazon beat him unarmed but batman able to gas her and make her pass out.Despite this, the amazon beat him at unarmed combat.it was a fair fight.

Artemis is hardly "a regular Amazon". The fight also took place under Loeb in an issue of Superman/Batman.

Moderator
#133 Posted by Evil Incarnate (4608 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@moywar700 said:

@ComicStooge said:

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

Batman was sneaking around and an amazon found him. They started at each other for like one panel and started to fight unarmed. The amazon beat him unarmed but batman able to gas her and make her pass out.Despite this, the amazon beat him at unarmed combat.it was a fair fight.

Artemis is hardly "a regular Amazon". The fight also took place under Loeb in an issue of Superman/Batman.

What's a regular Amazon besides everyone who isn't Diana or Donna...?

#134 Posted by TDK_1997 (16121 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman would win.

#135 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@moywar700 said:

@ComicStooge said:

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

Batman was sneaking around and an amazon found him. They started at each other for like one panel and started to fight unarmed. The amazon beat him unarmed but batman able to gas her and make her pass out.Despite this, the amazon beat him at unarmed combat.it was a fair fight.

Artemis is hardly "a regular Amazon". The fight also took place under Loeb in an issue of Superman/Batman.

Artemis is the best of the Bana-Mighdall this is true but if we consider the entire canon of the WW lore, she is not better than any Themyscira Amazon and nowhere close to WW. That aside, Batman has lost to regular Amazons before as well. But that was during Amazon's Attack. Kind of funny though, whenever Batman loses to an Amazon, the issue or story arc is universally panned by Batman fans lol.

#136 Posted by moywar700 (3013 posts) - - Show Bio

ok i'm wrong

#137 Edited by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil Incarnate said:

What's a regular Amazon besides everyone who isn't Diana or Donna...?

That depends on what he meant by regular. Themysciran Amazons are low level super humans. Based on the feats they have performed, I estimate they are at or just below Deathstroke's physicals. They are said to be superior to even the best non-enhanced human physically. They also are 3,000 years old and train and fight daily. Bana-Mighdall however are just standard mortal humans without the blessings of the Greek gods. They do however have far more brutal tactics and have no qualms about "cheating" to win any fight and Artemis was something of a prodigy of the Bana.

#138 Edited by moywar700 (3013 posts) - - Show Bio

"If Batman really wanted to kill Wonder Woman he could always stab her with piercing objects and same thing with Superman he could always leave him lying there with a Kryptonite and let him die

The writers always has Batman say something heroic about all of them before Batman beats them to give the nerd fanboys something to feel good about.Nerds live in Comic Book they have no sense of real life thats why they get picked on in real life"

"Batman is physically superior, and even though wonder woman could hit him with the invisible plane, batman is10x smarter."

I looked up batman vs Wonder woman on yahoo answers and these were the answers.lol

#139 Edited by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is my breakdown. It is my belief that the Amazon and Artemis victories are legitimate. But before I get slayed by Batman fans, let me clarify. I do not necessarily believe that they are superior H2H fighters. I do think it is possible and in fact, I believe it should be the case considering their culture. I do however believe the Themyscira Amazons are the superior melee fighters though.

The reason I believe Artemis' victory was legitimate is because she is the very best of her entire race. A race of people that are familiar with every style of combat throughout the world. While Batman has not trained as long, he has trained in most of the same things and he himself is a prodigy in combat. I believe he is superior to Artemis but I think she is good enough to give him a run for his money any day and sometimes even win. The feat shown just happens to be one such victory. I would perhaps believe she is his superior if she had more feats but she has more limited showings than WW herself.

The reason I believe in the legitimacy of the random Amazon victories we saw in Amazon's Attack is because, assuming they are Themysciran, they are nearly his H2H equal, are likely his melee superior and have near Deathstroke stats to back them up. With all this, I believe it gives them a bit of an unfair physical edge.

As far as WW is concerned, she is the best the Themysciran Amazons have to offer and they are superior to the Bana in every single way except they shun technology, which means some more developed forms of combat. Pound for pound though, the Themyscirans are better than the Bana in every way that matters. That said, logically she should easily handle Batman on even ground but here is the kicker; she has few H2H feats against Batman level fighters. Even super powered ones, no one she has fought is on Batman's level. And sure she has beaten Batman several times during sparring matches but both are just playing around. Wonder Woman has many melee fights against physical superior opponents and most often, she wins. This should lend at least a bit to her fighting prowess. But unfortunately, DC has opted to not expand on her H2H aside from her reputation. On paper, she should wreck Batman any day of the week on even ground. As far as feats go however, she cannot win. I tend to favor the reputation because of her wins against super powered foes but really, this thread is going to be won or lost based only on any user's personal preference... which means Batman most likely wins lol.

@CitizenBane:

Edit: Decided to include you in this so you do not just write me off as a WW fanboy... even though I am lol.

#140 Posted by ComicStooge (18550 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

@ComicStooge said:

@moywar700:

I have trouble believeing that, are you sure it was a fair fight?

Batman was sneaking around and an amazon found him. The amazon beat him unarmed but batman able to drug her and make her pass out.Despite this, the amazon beat him at unarmed combat.it was a fair fight.

Maybe he just wanted an excuse to get Artemis on top of him. :3

#141 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman all rounds.

#142 Posted by ImmortalOne (3710 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman all rounds. Wonder Woman relies too much on her powers in her fighting skill.

Online
#143 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe my point is proven...

#144 Posted by XImpossibruX (5541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Typhion said:

I don't know why we're even posting scans of Bat's fighting WW while she still has her strength, speed, and reflexes. She might have been holding back, but they were available to her. Holding back, and suddenly having to put in genuine effort to break a wrist lock are 2 different things.

WW wins round 1...maybe..I'll go 51/49.

Bats in 2

Bats with ease in 3.

Why? Size and strength. Folks, without powers she's a regular woman who's what? 5'10" 160lbs? Given her shape and size, I'd guess she might be able to dead lift around 225 lbs (that's using scans of her when she actually looks muscular...if you don't, she caps out around 115 lbs). Meanwhile Bats is about 6'2" or so and 230? Well, I'm 6' flat and 200 flat, and I deadlift about 365, so I'll guess Bruce, who's in amazing condition, would beat that with ease. He's likely twice as strong as Diana and half again as heavy. THERE IS A REASON YOU HAVE WEIGHT CLASSES. He's way too much for a de-powered Diana without weapons. They're both tremendously skilled, but if you go to what the next edges would be, that's in favor of the Batman very very easily.

Well ain't that the truth

#145 Posted by Dextersinister (7990 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana wins the first round easily. Bruce beats the clay out of her because he has a massive weight and strength advantage over her, fighting skills only take you so far natural advantages have no cap.

#146 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman easily... Wonder Woman without powers would just be a child to batman.

#147 Edited by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Typhion:

When have weight classes mattered in any comic ever? Your stats are wrong anyway. Wonder Woman is 6 ft tall.

#148 Posted by KMART4455 (1303 posts) - - Show Bio

I think WW would beat Brucie boy down.

#149 Posted by Typhion (660 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@Typhion:

When have weight classes mattered in any comic ever? Your stats are wrong anyway. Wonder Woman is 6 ft tall.

Since we're talking no powers. Then it's about physical capabilities. Weight classes matter in all fighting sports. Put her stats anywhere you want them. Without powers, Bruce easily outbrawns her, and outweighs her, and wins the last 2 rounds.

#150 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Typhion said:

@Erik said:

@Typhion:

When have weight classes mattered in any comic ever? Your stats are wrong anyway. Wonder Woman is 6 ft tall.

Since we're talking no powers. Then it's about physical capabilities. Weight classes matter in all fighting sports. Put her stats anywhere you want them. Without powers, Bruce easily outbrawns her, and outweighs her, and wins the last 2 rounds.

Yeah... Too bad that nonsense has never mattered in comics. How many times has the weaker female rocked the guy twice her size in comics? Countless times.