#1 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

Nimrod vs Ultron. 
 

 Nimrod
 Ultron

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Each has one month to prepare.  Winner by the destruction, energy loss, or subjugation of the other.

Who wins?  What kind of strategies do they employ?
 
There was a short battle between them before, but it did not feature prep. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/ultron-vs-nimrod/404392/ 
#2 Posted by _slim_ (14805 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron.

#3 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12273 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron.

#4 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio
@venomoushatred1001 said:
Ultron.
@_slim_ said:
Ultron.
Because?  Please spell out what you think his strategy and advantages are.
#5 Edited by theicon (1795 posts) - - Show Bio

nimrod, he has future knowledge of everything on ultron and is pretty bad ass hard to beat,plus nimrod beat the juggernaut   dont think ultron has

#6 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron. 

#7 Posted by cattlebattle (13561 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron
 
Can't Ultron over ride and control other machines?

#8 Posted by Scarbearer (750 posts) - - Show Bio

I to think Ultron wins this.  I don't think Nimrod can actually hurt him by this point.  I also think Ultron has to many weapons and options at his disposal, and also, while crazy, I think he's smarter and more importantly the more creative/strategic thinker of the two.  Nimrod is all about hunting Mutants,  and if he were to go up against Ultron he'd likely treat it just like any mutant hunt, and I think Ultron would pretty easily be able to extrapolate the probabilities and essentially figure out exactly what Nimrod would do and have the plan to counter act it.

#9 Posted by acer51 (2258 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and it just feels like ultron has more resources at his disposal i dont know why.
#10 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron, IMO.


But then it would depend I suppose. If you are taking the ultron that appeared in secret wars and few old comics (don’t know if that has happened in any new comics) who was like 100% adamantium and you need molecular rearrangement to even move would be pretty hard for nimrod to win,

I personally think Ultron is more durable (specially if you consider 100% adamantium form), ultron seem to be adapting faster than Nimrod in most occasions, and Ultron has pretty much always been able to control androids so you never know he might as well be able to control Nimrod here.

#11 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me spell out some of the respective powers for the two, as far as I am aware. 
  
Ultron is made of adamantium on the outside.  He has an encephalo-ray that allows him to hypnotize humans, various beams (concussive, radiation, disintegration), tractor beam, limited energy absorption, flight, and from what I have read, 75 ton strength. 
 
Nimrod is made of strong materials but not as strong as adamantium.  However, he can regenerate himself, and it is believed he can do so even if reduced to dust.  He may have control of his components at the molecular level with the ability to retain his consciousness outside of his body.  He has various beams (concussive, plasma, disintegration), he can control magnetism, he can reverse gravity on individuals making them fly into space, he has a shockweb that is like an energy web, he has forcefields, he can time travel with difficulty, and he can teleport.  He has class 100 strength--enough to fight Juggernaut hand to hand. Nimrod is also capable of a degree of self-evolution of powers in order to defeat a range of mutant.
 
One thing that comes up a lot with Ultron is his adamantium.  Adamantium, just so everyone knows, is not literally indestructible.  You can read its page here on the Vine.  Also, he is not adamantium inside.  The Hulk damaged Ultron with a punch, which allowed Wasp to fly inside and destroy his wiring.  Wonder Man pulled him apart.  There are other cases of Hulk and Thor damaging adamantium.  I would argue that Nimrod is in this class of strength. There are also molecular rearrangers that can melt adamantium, and antarctic vibranium, which melts it.  So Ultron's adamantium does not make him invulnerable to attack, if you do it the right way.
 
So overall, I think Nimrod has a wider range of powers, and his molecular regeneration is probably more of an effective method of self-preservation than Ultron's adamantium.  Both have shown a degree of ability to control other machines.
 
However, this fight is with prep.  Both robots have made lots of secondary robots to help them--Ultron has done this many times. Nimrod didn't do it himself, but did do it later as Bastion (after he merged with the Master Mold) he made tons of sentinels.  So you could argue that Ninrod might not do that himself, and needs the Master Mold part of Bastion to make more sentinels (I don't know if that's true or not).  Ultron is arguably smarter and more strategic that Nimrod.  He's more of a planner, whereas Nimrod is more of a hunter/killer.  So I could see giving Ultron the advantage in prep/strategy/ability to make an army of robots. 
 
The question is, can Ultron use the advantage of his extra smarts to defeat Nimrod's regeneration, his gravity ray, his extra strength, his ability to adapt, his ability to teleport?  Can Nimrod use his time travel effectively to help himself?  Can Nimrod use his prep time to get the tech/materials necessary to defeat Ultron's adamantium? 
 
 
Also, a word about why they're fighting: Ultron is out to destroy all humanity.  Nimrod wants to just kills mutants.  So he has to destroy Ultron to save the normal humans.

#12 Posted by daak1212 (7867 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie:  And Ultron has to destroy Nimrod to save the Mutants....
#13 Posted by Cochise (682 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Nimrod but I think Ultron takes this. He's made of adamantium so he's more durable. His offensive output seems to be stronger too.
 
Nimrod did beat Juggernaut but it was due to exploiting a weakness - he shot Juggs in the face (helmet off) with a sonic blast, knocking Juggs out but NOT physically harming him. I don't think Nimrod (or Ultron for that matter) can harm Juggernaut, and while it was very cool it's a bit of a low showing for Juggernaut IMHO.

#14 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cochise said:
I love Nimrod but I think Ultron takes this. He's made of adamantium so he's more durable. His offensive output seems to be stronger too.  Nimrod did beat Juggernaut but it was due to exploiting a weakness - he shot Juggs in the face (helmet off) with a sonic blast, knocking Juggs out but NOT physically harming him. I don't think Nimrod (or Ultron for that matter) can harm Juggernaut, and while it was very cool it's a bit of a low showing for Juggernaut IMHO.
Again, I don't think his adamantium is really a savior for Ultron.  Nimrod could dent it physically, and possibly come up with tech like a molecular rearranger to melt it.  LOTS of people have defeated Ultron despite his adamantium.  While Nimrod can recompose himself from molecules! 
 
Ultron's strategy/intelligence advantage, however, is another matter.
#15 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron is completely made of Adamantium, not just his outside. And he's much smarter and more resourceful than Nimrod. I think Ultron would be able to damage and then rewrite Nimrod's programing.

#16 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, if anyone knows if Ultron has more weapons/abilities than what I listed, please say what they are.  I didn't look them up myself until after the battle, and this is all I could find/remember.

#17 Posted by _slim_ (14805 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie:  I think Ultron is capable controlling any type of A.I. he runs across. I don't think Nimrod being a sentinel from the future would phase him and he should be capable of overtaking his A.I.
 
As for prep I think this is what really wins it for Ultron. He wouldn't even need to face Nimrod as you said Ultron could just create an hundreds of robots to battle for/protect him while he overtakes Nimrod.
#18 Posted by _slim_ (14805 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie said:
@Cochise said:
I love Nimrod but I think Ultron takes this. He's made of adamantium so he's more durable. His offensive output seems to be stronger too.  Nimrod did beat Juggernaut but it was due to exploiting a weakness - he shot Juggs in the face (helmet off) with a sonic blast, knocking Juggs out but NOT physically harming him. I don't think Nimrod (or Ultron for that matter) can harm Juggernaut, and while it was very cool it's a bit of a low showing for Juggernaut IMHO.
Again, I don't think his adamantium is really a savior for Ultron.  Nimrod could dent it physically, and possibly come up with tech like a molecular rearranger to melt it.  LOTS of people have defeated Ultron despite his adamantium.  While Nimrod can recompose himself from molecules!  Ultron's strategy/intelligence advantage, however, is another matter.
It's the reason he wins.
#19 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio
@_slim_ said:
@Owie said:
@Cochise said:
I love Nimrod but I think Ultron takes this. He's made of adamantium so he's more durable. His offensive output seems to be stronger too.  Nimrod did beat Juggernaut but it was due to exploiting a weakness - he shot Juggs in the face (helmet off) with a sonic blast, knocking Juggs out but NOT physically harming him. I don't think Nimrod (or Ultron for that matter) can harm Juggernaut, and while it was very cool it's a bit of a low showing for Juggernaut IMHO.
Again, I don't think his adamantium is really a savior for Ultron.  Nimrod could dent it physically, and possibly come up with tech like a molecular rearranger to melt it.  LOTS of people have defeated Ultron despite his adamantium.  While Nimrod can recompose himself from molecules!  Ultron's strategy/intelligence advantage, however, is another matter.
It's the reason he wins.
I think you're probably right.  Nimrod would spend a lot of time coming with with adaptive tech to fight Ultron--tech to defeat his adamantium, his control over other robots, etc.  I think any of these are probably easily within the range of his adaptive weaponry to do.  But I think he'd be overwhelmed by the number of robots Ultron would make.  Of course, if they caught him, they couldn't really destroy him, because he could reconstitute himself, and he could always teleport away.  Teleporting away would probably count as a loss for him, though. 
  
Otherwise, the only way for Ultron to truly beat him would be to take him over.  Nimrod has also controlled robots, so there would be a bit of a battle there.  And Nimrod's mind evolved to be semi-human, which would probably dull Ultron's ability to control machines. On the other hand, Ultron can also control humans with his encephalo ray, so he could sort of attack Nimrod's personality form two sides.  The question is, could Nimrod's ability to evolve his technology to attack/defend against his opponents' abilities be enough to stop this?  I think it might.  Of course, Ultron could try to come up with his own counter-counter weapon; I think this particular part of the challenge is Ultron's superior intelligence vs Nimrod's superior technology. 
 
In the end, I think Ultron wins by forcing Nimrod to teleport away through superior numbers.
#20 Posted by GoldKing (427 posts) - - Show Bio

This would certainly be an interesting fight. I think Nimrod only wants to kill mutants whereas Ultron wants to kill everyone. That may be where their conflict comes in.

@owie said:

One thing that comes up a lot with Ultron is his adamantium. Adamantium, just so everyone knows, is not literally indestructible. You can read its page here on the Vine. Also, he is not adamantium inside. The Hulk damaged Ultron with a punch, which allowed Wasp to fly inside and destroy his wiring. Wonder Man pulled him apart. There are other cases of Hulk and Thor damaging adamantium. I would argue that Nimrod is in this class of strength. There are also molecular rearrangers that can melt adamantium, and antarctic vibranium, which melts it. So Ultron's adamantium does not make him invulnerable to attack, if you do it the right way.

That's the beauty of retconning. All forms of adamantium to have ever been dented, broken, destroyed, or affected in a negative way were revealed to be either secondary adamantium, or have some sort of molecular flaw enabling them to have a weakness.

But true and flawless adamantium lives up to its name.

#21 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldking said:

This would certainly be an interesting fight. I think Nimrod only wants to kill mutants whereas Ultron wants to kill everyone. That may be where their conflict comes in.

@owie said:

One thing that comes up a lot with Ultron is his adamantium. Adamantium, just so everyone knows, is not literally indestructible. You can read its page here on the Vine. Also, he is not adamantium inside. The Hulk damaged Ultron with a punch, which allowed Wasp to fly inside and destroy his wiring. Wonder Man pulled him apart. There are other cases of Hulk and Thor damaging adamantium. I would argue that Nimrod is in this class of strength. There are also molecular rearrangers that can melt adamantium, and antarctic vibranium, which melts it. So Ultron's adamantium does not make him invulnerable to attack, if you do it the right way.

That's the beauty of retconning. All forms of adamantium to have ever been dented, broken, destroyed, or affected in a negative way were revealed to be either secondary adamantium, or have some sort of molecular flaw enabling them to have a weakness.

But true and flawless adamantium lives up to its name.

True, in the years since I made this battle I have learned that you are correct, most of this stuff is secondary adamantium. Although I believe the molecular rearrangers and antarctic vibranium could still affect primary adamantium. In any case I believe Ultron is secondary adamantium, although I could be wrong about that. Certainly at least in the past it was secondary.

#22 Posted by GoldKing (427 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie:

Yeah, well, I'm glad they retconned it because it was BS how they always referred to it as "indestructible" (for God's sake, it's called "Adamantium"!) but they showed it being dented by Thor or cracked by Hulk. That was totally bogus. Luckily they sent things straight.

At some point, I do believe it can be affected.... but by nothing short of an extreme reality warper or ultra high end abstract. Anything less, regardless of how powerful, shouldn't be able to do anything to it IMO. Otherwise, why call it adamantium?

As for this fight..... ttt

Anyone else got any opinions on it?

#23 Posted by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron

#24 Edited by fondofpacman (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Great battle idea Owie, and again you're one of the only people using logic to back up your comments. Ultron is probably my favorite robot in Marvel, but he would have to completely reduce Nimrod to vaporized molecules to win this, and Nimrod has a couple avenues of winning.

I'd agree with you that Ultron is likely secondary adamantium, and as such could be at least dented by Nimrod given his unbelievable strength...he just flicked off Juggernaut's helmet like it was nothing, and earlier hit him so hard Juggernaut remarked that he only believed Hulk capable of such a hit. Nimrod also describes wolverine's adamantium as "extraordinarily resistant", not indestructable, as he KO's Wolvie with one hit from his force field (and I'd put Wolvie's adamantium above Ulton's if forced to make a comparison). Nimod can also teleport, and as a self-teaching AI could simply teleport off one of Ultron's limbs (as was done to him by Rogue) to expose his vulnerable inner components...then it's game-over. And I know there's no mention of BFR wins in this battle, but Nimrod could easily launch Ultron into space with either his control of gravity or magnetism.

I'm not saying Nimrod wins, but I'm saying he has viable options, especially considering the prep he has to consider his plan of attack and his ability to determine and exploit weaknesses.

#25 Edited by Jmarshmallow (10546 posts) - - Show Bio

Nimrod.

Jmarshmallow

#26 Posted by Bones309 (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

I see these two merging honestly. They have the same goal far as I can tell.

#27 Edited by serrure (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron

#28 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Great battle idea Owie, and again you're one of the only people using logic to back up your comments. Ultron is probably my favorite robot in Marvel, but he would have to completely reduce Nimrod to vaporized molecules to win this, and Nimrod has a couple avenues of winning.

I'd agree with you that Ultron is likely secondary adamantium, and as such could be at least dented by Nimrod given his unbelievable strength...he just flicked off Juggernaut's helmet like it was nothing, and earlier hit him so hard Juggernaut remarked that he only believed Hulk capable of such a hit. Nimrod also describes wolverine's adamantium as "extraordinarily resistant", not indestructable, as he KO's Wolvie with one hit from his force field (and I'd put Wolvie's adamantium above Ulton's if forced to make a comparison). Nimod can also teleport, and as a self-teaching AI could simply teleport off one of Ultron's limbs (as was done to him by Rogue) to expose his vulnerable inner components...then it's game-over. And I know there's no mention of BFR wins in this battle, but Nimrod could easily launch Ultron into space with either his control of gravity or magnetism.

I'm not saying Nimrod wins, but I'm saying he has viable options, especially considering the prep he has to consider his plan of attack and his ability to determine and exploit weaknesses.

Hey man how's it going? I had checked to see if you were still around a while ago and saw you hadn't been posting (before that I thought maybe I just hadn't noticed your posts since I don't go into the cosmic threads much these days). Anyway, glad you're back, it's always nice to have your equally thoughtful posts around here.

Those are all good points about them one-on-one. Nimrod does have a nice range of abilities. Regarding the prep aspects of the battle, the more I think about it the more I think Ultron wins. His machine control is better, and his feats at controlling a country in Europe, the whole world in Age of Ultron, and the Phalanx in Annihilation Conquest show much more of a mastery of prep he has. Unless of course we consider that Nimrod ultimately merged with the Master Mold and became Bastion, who in turn worked with all those sentinels who controlled the earth in the future in Second Coming, which is more or less equivalent to the Age of Ultron. Although I honestly can't remember what Bastion's relation was to those sentinels (if he had created them) and of course Bastion isn't really exactly the same as Nimrod.

#29 Posted by fondofpacman (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Yeah, I haven't been on CV for a year or so. Honestly I just read a couple 80's Xmen comics with Nimrod featured in them shortly after watching the Ulton episodes of "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" on Netflix, and it got me wondering who'd win in a fight...crazily enough I just googled "nimrod ultron" and a comicvine thread started by you was the first thing that I saw...why am i not even surprised? Lol!

I think I'd have to agree with your assessment that prep puts this in Ultron's favor if it wasn't already (I'd say that they're close to even-money in a no-prep brawl...maybe that'd even slightly favor Nimrod).

#30 Posted by Owie (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Yeah, I haven't been on CV for a year or so. Honestly I just read a couple 80's Xmen comics with Nimrod featured in them shortly after watching the Ulton episodes of "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" on Netflix, and it got me wondering who'd win in a fight...crazily enough I just googled "nimrod ultron" and a comicvine thread started by you was the first thing that I saw...why am i not even surprised? Lol!

I think I'd have to agree with your assessment that prep puts this in Ultron's favor if it wasn't already (I'd say that they're close to even-money in a no-prep brawl...maybe that'd even slightly favor Nimrod).

Yeah, I can totally see that. I think Nimrod's got the diversity and the mechanical healing factor. Gotta love those 80s X-men. Uncanny 209 is one of my favorite comics ever, although I'm slightly biased about it because it was also one of the first comics I ever read as a teen who wanted to start collecting comics, as opposed to reading random things as a little kid. But I love me the Ultron too.

#31 Posted by Wallacabayka (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Great battle idea. I think Nimrod's ability to regenerate and teleport gives him just a sliver of an edge. Very close fight, but I'll give it to Nimrod 3/5. (As a side note, it might be plausible to suggest Nimrod travels back in time to kill Dr.Henry Pym before Ultron is even created.)

#32 Posted by Thanofleeze (3364 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron too strong.

#33 Posted by Johnfrank120 (4050 posts) - - Show Bio

Da 'tron

#34 Posted by myerlanski (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

I like nimrod in a raw fight but with prep...I think ultron has the superior intellect....

#35 Edited by Noone301994 (8567 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron.