Nihilus, Traya vs Dooku, Sidious

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VS

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• Nihilus just fed on Marrs homeworld. Traya has her three Lightsabers.
• Dooku and Palpatin are RotS era.
• Death or KO.

Don't see why Sidious can't speedblitz..

Before people try to get this lock cause no one can beat Palpatine in most novices minds, these facts here.

Nihilus

Traya

And this is Revenge of the Sith Era palpatine, not the Dark Empire era where he is close to Grandmaster Luke.

Team 2. Nihilus is as cool as anyone but he sadly lacks the overall feats and consistency of Palp and even Dooku.

Really, he has only a few and I listed them above. Leagues above Dooku by far at the least. His TK and Frain Force are leagues above Dooku. Also having no physical body as stated many times is a bonus against attacks aimed at a body. Also his Lightsaber skills were pretty good too.

@sirfizzwhizz: He still has no quantifiable skill or speed feats that put him on Palpatine or Dooku's level. Nihilus isn't a good character to use in battles, regardless. His combat showings are limited to just TK and drain which won't do much against the more powerful opponents people tend to put him up against.

Sidious solos, he's immune to Nihilus' drain, and superior to Traya

Actually he has quantifiable skill and speed.

• Able to fight a saber battle with Meetra, Madalore, and Visas. So good were his skills and stats (even in a weaken state with the odds stack against him by two plot devices), that Meetra contemplated killing Visas to weaken him further to manage a win.

Meetra has many quantifiable speed and skill feats to match any other Jedi Knight or some of the Masters shown. She was working with Visas and Madalore (who was Revans party member in the first game too) and getting the better of them depending what rout you went with Visas bond to Nihilus. Not to mention Nihilus was weaking in that whole fight too from Plot Device(s).

Not sure why he will be Speed blitz anymore than Maul, Opress, or Talzin were in the Clone Wars. out skilled sure, but regardless what one novel said about his speed overt the majority of feats in the Clone Wars material, he is not speed blitzing as per RotS era at all. Not as easy to low ball the feats of these KOTOR characters or state this version of Palpatine is simply blitzing.

Also neither Dooku nor Sidious ever face TK on his level before.

Proof? Show me where he is "immune" to it. Best quote I seen is Immunity for a short time for Vos, which is not the same as Palpatine having flat out Immunity.

I will conceded this point with proof. Still has the major TK though.

@sirfizzwhizz: He definitely has immunity, as his apprentice, Vader also had. I cannot give you a citation, as it was in a book I checked out from the library a while ago.

@darthsamburger: @theultimatetitan: unless you guys can post the citation it's all out of context or bias speculation.

I seen a quote that people can sustain a very limited time to it, but immunity needs to be stated and stated well to establish that. Otherwise they get devoured like the planets filled wih Jedi do.

Sidious ballsacstomps

Sidious solos through speedblitz and Drain resistance.

@eisenfauste: like he soloed Maul, and Opress? Or soloed Talzin? This is RotS Palpatine.

@shootingnova: proof he can resist planet level force drain please. People have resistance to force pushes or telepathy and yet can still be rag dolled or mind raped by characters stronger in those fields. Nihilus has the best force drain ability ever, with only a wound in the force can tank by feats.

Why does "resistance" to way lower power drains mean he will not be drain by planet level drain? Has he resisted something on that level in Revenge of the Sith to not eer be effected at all.

Does Sidious brush off TK of Nihilus caliber as per RotS era feats?

@sirfizzwhizz: RotS incarnation doesn't make a difference.

And yes, he soloed those characters. Talzin had to rely on Palpatine not killing Dooku (for loss of an apprentice) to survive, but she lost anyway. She got help from Maul, Palpatine got help from Tyranus, and then he won.

He dominated both Maul and Savage, and he was holding back as per Dave Filoni, not to mention the only reason they even came down to fight him is because he let them, in releasing them from his Force grip. It's already revealed that he's faster than they could see at his maximum speed.

Considering that Palpatine is actually more powerful than Nihilus is to begin with, I'd wager that his Drain resistance would succeed against Nihilus.

No, he doesn't brush it off, but that feat has plenty of circumstances.

LOL

@silver2467

You're an expert Star Wars right? What do you think?

Sidious could solo.

@hunterzillas: He's been gone for a long time :/ next best person to talk to is nova on subject matter such as this.

@@eisenfauste:

Figures, nova who?

@hunterzillas: Shootingnova

@shootingnova:

And yes, he soloed those characters. Talzin had to rely on Palpatine not killing Dooku (for loss of an apprentice) to survive, but she lost anyway. She got help from Maul, Palpatine got help from Tyranus, and then he won.

True enough when you put it that way, she still more than matched him in Force Lightning though :P

He dominated both Maul and Savage, and he was holding back as per Dave Filoni, not to mention the only reason they even came down to fight him is because he let them, in releasing them from his Force grip. It's already revealed that he's faster than they could see at his maximum speed.

What? Aaagh. Ok, where is the source for the underline? Interview with writer, or director, stated in the Dathomir Comic?

Considering that Palpatine is actually more powerful than Nihilus is to begin with, I'd wager that his Drain resistance would succeed against Nihilus.

Why though? After all what feats does this era Palpatine have to say he can resist with any success that level of Drain? What was the best he tanked or resisted at that time?

No, he doesn't brush it off, but that feat has plenty of circumstances.

Fair enough then.

I still am unsure why Yoda matched this Era of Palpatine completely, yet by sources Windu and the rest were outclass. By feats Yoda is not much better than Mace Windu and seems stated that Mace is nearly on par with Yoda overall. Why did Palpatine fared so badly against Yoda, I mean he still won, but Yoda still had a lengthy battle with him, made him work for it, and got away to train his biggest rival, Luke. That context makes no sense. Surly this Era of Palpatine is no where near his Later eras.

Sidious solos

More like he is overwanked, even in his weaker era versions :/

Not to say Palpatine and Grand Master Luke are not the top tier best, but this is RotS era Palpatine, and has none of the awesome abilities, or further feats he gains post RotJ movie via EU.

@shootingnova

@hunterzillas: Have you not read any of the thread? Nova is already aware of this battle, calling him out again is unnecessary.

Also, Sidious solos due to speed, drain resistance, skill, and a variety of other force powers.

@sxe619:

Yeah.......just found that out......whoops.

He can still speedblitz. Even this version was blitzing Kit Fisto(who can make cyclones of energy with his lightsaber and mover faster than Jedi Killer droids could react), keeping up with Darth Maul and Savage Oppress while holding back(the later of who can deflect blasts from dozens of droids and the former who can make webs of energy with his lightsaber), and fighting Mace Windu so fast he looked like he was blinking in and out of existence.

@highaccuser: Which is crap since Mace and Yoda are near comparable, and Yoda matched Sidious easy enough :/

Same for Dooku who is way less than Palpatine, yet Yoda could not speed blitz Dooku to stop him from getting away.

All inconsistent crap with that RotS novel gets brought in. Novels made after any movie in general add in inconsistent nonsense that the writer wish to add. George Lucas movie showed Mace more or less kept up with Palpatine with no BS twisted statements of Palpatine Speed or holding back. Yt that hack Mathew Stover writes some fan wank of Palpatine holding back on Mace, and being too fast still to be seen? That does not look like what the main canon source tried to convey.

Are there any truth to claims that Nihilus's drain is different than the normal variant? The TORtards claim its different by saying it can sever one completely from the force, is that true?

@sirfizzwhizz:

True enough when you put it that way, she still more than matched him in Force Lightning though :P

She was losing, then Maul helped her, and to balance it out, Dooku helped Palpatine, and then Palpatine began winning again.

What? Aaagh. Ok, where is the source for the underline? Interview with writer, or director, stated in the Dathomir Comic?

It's in my RotS Palpatine respect thread.

Why though? After all what feats does this era Palpatine have to say he can resist with any success that level of Drain? What was the best he tanked or resisted at that time?

He only needs two things - to be more powerful than Nihilus, and to have immunity to Drain via technique. He has both.

I still am unsure why Yoda matched this Era of Palpatine completely, yet by sources Windu and the rest were outclass. By feats Yoda is not much better than Mace Windu and seems stated that Mace is nearly on par with Yoda overall. Why did Palpatine fared so badly against Yoda, I mean he still won, but Yoda still had a lengthy battle with him, made him work for it, and got away to train his biggest rival, Luke. That context makes no sense. Surly this Era of Palpatine is no where near his Later eras.

Mace is in a similar tier with Yoda in lightsaber skill, but he's outclassed in every other way. Speed, for instance.

That's what everybody says when they haven't read enough material.

Not at all. He has Sever Force ability, but that is it.

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List of abilities as per Knight of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. He has mastery of Force Sever and Force Drain. They are separate abilities. The only major ability of Nihilus is that his Force Drain is planet level, and casual at that. His TK is also massive high for what it is stated to accomplish, better than Yoda's best TK feats.

Team 2 with ease. Sidious can probably solo.

Team two

Either of team 2 solos.