#1 Edited by SuperJedi17 (298 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins? I honestly can't make a decision because I've only read NW of the 2.But what do YOU think?

#2 Posted by darktiger (4153 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing wins better combatant,combat strategist,smarter,and faster

#3 Posted by SuperJedi17 (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@darktiger said:

Nightwing wins better combatant,combat strategist,smarter,and faster

Glad to know that.I thought that another" batman vs" thread would've been a bit redundant.

#4 Posted by darktiger (4153 posts) - - Show Bio

@SuperJedi17 said:

@darktiger said:

Nightwing wins better combatant,combat strategist,smarter,and faster

Glad to know that.I thought that another" batman vs" thread would've been a bit redundant.

yup

#5 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Frank Castle.

Why? Probably at least as good a strategist, equally well trained, undoubtedly stronger, and easily has the highest pain tolerance. However, most importantly, much deadlier arsenal at his disposal, and much looser morals. Punisher has had three fights with Dare Devil. One Dare Devil was holding back, one was not concluded (only lasted like four panels or so), and the other was a stalemate. He's taken on Spiderman at least twice, Wolverine multiple times, Bullseye, Deadpool, Moon Knight (fight unconcluded), and so many others.

But overall the lethal arsenal seals the deal for me. Though even in h2h I think he would do pretty well.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#6 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Nightwing wins in a close match. They are near equals in strength, and i think that Castle has better durability because of his toughness, However i think that Grayson bests him slightly in his ability to strategize, his agility, his fighting skill, his reflexes, his endurance and his arsenal of gadgets. I think that in a very close match Dick would emerge superior.

#7 Posted by Pokeysteve (8018 posts) - - Show Bio

If current Punisher is Rucka's than NW should takes this fairly easy depending on the scenario. Rucka's Punisher hasn't actually done anything.

Weapons - Castle wins

No Weapons - Grayson probably destroys him.

#8 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

Probably Frank Castle.

Why? Probably at least as good a strategist, equally well trained, undoubtedly stronger, and easily has the highest pain tolerance. However, most importantly, much deadlier arsenal at his disposal, and much looser morals. Punisher has had three fights with Dare Devil. One Dare Devil was holding back, one was not concluded (only lasted like four panels or so), and the other was a stalemate. He's taken on Spiderman at least twice, Wolverine multiple times, Bullseye, Deadpool, Moon Knight (fight unconcluded), and so many others.

But overall the lethal arsenal seals the deal for me. Though even in h2h I think he would do pretty well.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

ha.

No. Nightwing is everyway Frank's superior. Sure, the arsenal is his court, but Nightwing has had his own run in with opponents bigger and badder than Frank Castle, IE, Deathstroke.

Nightwing holds back, yes he does, but he puts his all into it. Have you seen his bad guys in the New 52? Any single one of them would have absolutely ripped Frank a new A-hole. Maybe even easily.

H2H Nightwing just embarasses him. Dick is seen as a poorman's batman, but the truth is he's a different character altogether.

#9 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

@SuperJedi17 said:

Who wins? I honestly can't make a decision because I've only read NW of the 2.But what do YOU think?

Also, New 52 is still pre-52 Nightwing. They carry the same feats (Excluding thsoe shown in books with other heroes/special guest appearances, etc.)

#10 Posted by jashro44 (19521 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil: Nightwing cannot hold his own consistently with deathstroke. He has a few stand out showings but besides that Slade would stomp him. Not saying punisher would do better or am I disagreeing that nightwing (if we are counting pre 52 feats not sure about new 52 feats) would beat frank.

Online
#11 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil: Nightwing cannot hold his own consistently with deathstroke. He has a few stand out showings but besides that Slade would stomp him. Not saying punisher would do better or am I disagreeing that nightwing (if we are counting pre 52 feats not sure about new 52 feats) would beat frank.

I never said he could hold his own agaisnt Deathstroke. Hell no, Deathstroke beat Bats and Dick simultaneously if IIRC. I just said, Dick has fought bigger and badder. Frank is nothing impressive to Dick Grayson.

His new 52 feats are pretty solid too. Saiko and Paragon, two of his big new baddies, are pretty legit.

#12 Posted by God_Spawn (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil: Saiko was legit. Paragon, I don't see it. The only reason he even did well against Grayson was by getting him in a sewer where Nightwing's agility was hampered. Outside of that, Frank would put a bullet in his skull.

Moderator
#13 Posted by jashro44 (19521 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil: I see, my mistake.

Online
#14 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@nickthedevil: Saiko was legit. Paragon, I don't see it. The only reason he even did well against Grayson was by getting him in a sewer where Nightwing's agility was hampered. Outside of that, Frank would put a bullet in his skull.

IDK... I thought that taking out the entire Clock off the Watch tower was a pretty good capability. He did seem agile and fast enough to contend.

I also forgot to mention William Cobb. Yes, Dick Grayson got stomped, but he outwitted his enemy. it was a feat of durability and wit if really analyzed.

#15 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil: I see, my mistake.

No worries bro.

#16 Posted by God_Spawn (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@god_spawn said:

@nickthedevil: Saiko was legit. Paragon, I don't see it. The only reason he even did well against Grayson was by getting him in a sewer where Nightwing's agility was hampered. Outside of that, Frank would put a bullet in his skull.

IDK... I thought that taking out the entire Clock off the Watch tower was a pretty good capability. He did seem agile and fast enough to contend.

I also forgot to mention William Cobb. Yes, Dick Grayson got stomped, but he outwitted his enemy. it was a feat of durability and wit if really analyzed.

I think the clock tower was more of a destructive capability. But when he actually fought him, he needed the environment to avoid Grayson using his agility as much and plus Paragon has a longer range with his attacks just made it harder on Grayson.

Moderator
#17 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@nickthedevil said:

@god_spawn said:

@nickthedevil: Saiko was legit. Paragon, I don't see it. The only reason he even did well against Grayson was by getting him in a sewer where Nightwing's agility was hampered. Outside of that, Frank would put a bullet in his skull.

IDK... I thought that taking out the entire Clock off the Watch tower was a pretty good capability. He did seem agile and fast enough to contend.

I also forgot to mention William Cobb. Yes, Dick Grayson got stomped, but he outwitted his enemy. it was a feat of durability and wit if really analyzed.

I think the clock tower was more of a destructive capability. But when he actually fought him, he needed the environment to avoid Grayson using his agility as much and plus Paragon has a longer range with his attacks just made it harder on Grayson.

This is true. I remember that Dick mentioned the Sewer tunnel hindering his fighting capability.

Still, I think my point holds water :P

#18 Posted by Americanson (72 posts) - - Show Bio

In pretty sure that if Nightwing New 52 can take on Lady Shiva New 52, he can take out Punisher

#19 Posted by God_Spawn (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil: I was just being nitpicky. I think your point is fine, but I wouldn't underestimate Frank. He is no pushover. I don't think he wins anyway.

Moderator
#20 Posted by robertloucksjr (1668 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@jashro44 said:

@nickthedevil: Nightwing cannot hold his own consistently with deathstroke. He has a few stand out showings but besides that Slade would stomp him. Not saying punisher would do better or am I disagreeing that nightwing (if we are counting pre 52 feats not sure about new 52 feats) would beat frank.

I never said he could hold his own agaisnt Deathstroke. Hell no, Deathstroke beat Bats and Dick simultaneously if IIRC. I just said, Dick has fought bigger and badder. Frank is nothing impressive to Dick Grayson.

His new 52 feats are pretty solid too. Saiko and Paragon, two of his big new baddies, are pretty legit.

Yeah, but you could say Nightwing is nothing impressive to Frank either. He has tangled with Daredevil/US Agent/Wolverine/Spider-Man. He has fought bigger and badder too.

#21 Posted by nickthedevil (11543 posts) - - Show Bio

^ All of which were heroes holding back. They weren't Saikos, and Talons and Paragons, going as far as to destroy an entire building and maime his head through a pike.

#22 Posted by Floopay (8598 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@Floopay said:

Probably Frank Castle.

Why? Probably at least as good a strategist, equally well trained, undoubtedly stronger, and easily has the highest pain tolerance. However, most importantly, much deadlier arsenal at his disposal, and much looser morals. Punisher has had three fights with Dare Devil. One Dare Devil was holding back, one was not concluded (only lasted like four panels or so), and the other was a stalemate. He's taken on Spiderman at least twice, Wolverine multiple times, Bullseye, Deadpool, Moon Knight (fight unconcluded), and so many others.

But overall the lethal arsenal seals the deal for me. Though even in h2h I think he would do pretty well.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

ha.

No. Nightwing is everyway Frank's superior. Sure, the arsenal is his court, but Nightwing has had his own run in with opponents bigger and badder than Frank Castle, IE, Deathstroke.

Nightwing holds back, yes he does, but he puts his all into it. Have you seen his bad guys in the New 52? Any single one of them would have absolutely ripped Frank a new A-hole. Maybe even easily.

H2H Nightwing just embarasses him. Dick is seen as a poorman's batman, but the truth is he's a different character altogether.

I've always liked Grayson better than Batman, ever since he became Nightwing actually. Not to mention at least a few of the people in my list would give Deathstroke more than a bit of a hard time. I think you are drastically underestimating Frank here. I'm only giving him the win because of the superior arsenal, by no means am I stating Grayson to be his inferior.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay