@e3zombie: Why?
Nightwing vs red hood
@Morpheus_ said:
@ReVamp: He doesn't really have many showings, all things considered. A couple of fights against Batman, three or four against Nightwing, three against Tim Drake, and one against Damian, Green Arrow and Catwoman.
That's hardly an argument, Morphy.
@Morpheus_ said:
I like Dick.
@ReVamp:
Self sarcasm so that you don't cry that I only ever do it to you.
I'd go with Nightwing because of experience. I'm not really sure when Jason was supposed to become such a BAMF anyway. He trained with Batman for...maybe nine months before getting killed. What training did he undergo once he resurrected that made him able to hold his own with characters which should be much more skilled than him?
I just want to say that Battle for The Cowl story arc was WIS (Writer Induced Stupidity) because everyone knew that it would come down to Jason and Dick. And everybody also knew that Dick would win the fight between the two, because DC Comics would never let a character that kills criminals take up the mantle of Batman.
@BatWatch: He did the same as Batman, scouring the globe for people to train in various arts like acrobatics, explosives, assassination, espionage, etc. And The League of Assassin's trained him, as well.
For clarification, I don't mean he had the same masters or quality training as Batman, just that they had the same method of searching for experts in various fields of combat and stealth.
@ThexX said:
I just want to say that Battle for The Cowl story arc was WIS (Writer Induced Stupidity) because everyone knew that it would come down to Jason and Dick. And everybody also knew that Dick would win the fight between the two, because DC Comics would never let a character that kills criminals take up the mantle of Batman.
Completely true.
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: He did the same as Batman, scouring the globe for people to train in various arts like acrobatics, explosives, assassination, espionage, etc. And The League of Assassin's trained him, as well.
For clarification, I don't mean he had the same masters or quality training as Batman, just that they had the same method of searching for experts in various fields of combat and stealth.
@ThexX said:
I just want to say that Battle for The Cowl story arc was WIS (Writer Induced Stupidity) because everyone knew that it would come down to Jason and Dick. And everybody also knew that Dick would win the fight between the two, because DC Comics would never let a character that kills criminals take up the mantle of Batman.
Completely true.
I gotcha. I've done a little more research on Jason since I made that comment. I would still probably go with Nightwing.
@BatWatch said:
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: He did the same as Batman, scouring the globe for people to train in various arts like acrobatics, explosives, assassination, espionage, etc. And The League of Assassin's trained him, as well.
For clarification, I don't mean he had the same masters or quality training as Batman, just that they had the same method of searching for experts in various fields of combat and stealth.
@ThexX said:
I just want to say that Battle for The Cowl story arc was WIS (Writer Induced Stupidity) because everyone knew that it would come down to Jason and Dick. And everybody also knew that Dick would win the fight between the two, because DC Comics would never let a character that kills criminals take up the mantle of Batman.
Completely true.
I gotcha. I've done a little more research on Jason since I made that comment. I would still probably go with Nightwing.
You know, I would've too, but Nightwing is getting his ass handed to him left and right in his series, now. I haven't read much Red Hood and the Outlaws, but I hear he's got some impressive showings lately. At any rate, I still take Dick. Jason isn't quite at Dick's level, imo.
@dondave: Yeah, I think Nightwing is just an all around better fighter than Jason, definitely more agile and more acrobatic, too. Nightwing's strength kinda fluctuates, but he's lifted a grown man over his head and threw him like a ragdoll, while his shoulder was dislocated, so he can at least match anything Jason can do, I'm sure. But like I said, I haven't read much Red Hood and the Outlaws, he may have improved as of late.
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch said:
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: He did the same as Batman, scouring the globe for people to train in various arts like acrobatics, explosives, assassination, espionage, etc. And The League of Assassin's trained him, as well.
For clarification, I don't mean he had the same masters or quality training as Batman, just that they had the same method of searching for experts in various fields of combat and stealth.
@ThexX said:
I just want to say that Battle for The Cowl story arc was WIS (Writer Induced Stupidity) because everyone knew that it would come down to Jason and Dick. And everybody also knew that Dick would win the fight between the two, because DC Comics would never let a character that kills criminals take up the mantle of Batman.
Completely true.
I gotcha. I've done a little more research on Jason since I made that comment. I would still probably go with Nightwing.
You know, I would've too, but Nightwing is getting his ass handed to him left and right in his series, now. I haven't read much Red Hood and the Outlaws, but I hear he's got some impressive showings lately. At any rate, I still take Dick. Jason isn't quite at Dick's level, imo.
Yeah not yet
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous, I think. Have you noticed on the cover of almost every issue he's beaten or bloody or getting ready to be thrown off a building, etc? Except for #13, but everything other than that, he's getting dominated.
He looked pretty awesome in #1, but that was a long time ago. Yeah, that's a good point, but that is the case in a lot of heroes' covers. You have to make it seem like the hero is in danger so fans will be concerned and pick it up.
Anyway, I haven't read #0 since it came out, but based on what I do recall, I'd hardly say he went "toe to toe" with Shiva. She complimented his potential and absolutely humiliated him. I don't recall him landing a single strike. The only redeeming quality I suppose one could take was the fact he dodged some projectiles, but that's about it.
@xxxddd said:
He's not. Grayson has him beat when it comes to hand-to-hand.Red Hood is a better fighter, but idk what Nightwing could do with prep.
@k4tzm4n said:
@NyghtMare: To be fair, Paragon only held the advantage because of the environment (Grayson remarked that it was too confined, not allowing him to properly evade the coils) and Grayson's second Talon fight began with him being struck in the chest by multiple daggers. Not exactly ideal conditions for the guy.
Anyway, I haven't read #0 since it came out, but based on what I do recall, I'd hardly say he went "toe to toe" with Shiva. She complimented his potential and absolutely humiliated him. I don't recall him landing a single strike. The only redeeming quality I suppose one could take was the fact he dodged some projectiles, but that's about it.
@xxxddd said:He's not. Grayson has him beat when it comes to hand-to-hand.Red Hood is a better fighter, but idk what Nightwing could do with prep.
He dodged a few of her hits and she said he had fluid potential and she could mold him and that Batman was squandering him, and then she humiliated him. Toe to toe was the wrong way to say it, but he lasted longer than Batman.
@NyghtMare:
He dodged a few of her hits and she said he had fluid potential and she could mold him and that Batman was squandering him, and then she humiliated him. Toe to toe was the wrong way to say it, but he lasted longer than Batman.
I heard batman was ambushed and caught off guard?
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: Oh, for sure. At any rate, Nightwing hasn't looked too good collectively in any of his fights, either. Paragon beat him down, Talons nearly killed him. But he somehow manages to go toe to toe with Shiva in #0? Shenanigans if I've ever seen them.
Dick has still retained a lot of his prowess when compared to Barbara Gordon. She cannot get a clean win to save her live, and her previously genius intellect seems to be rather...less than spectacular.
@jashro44 said:
@NyghtMare:
He dodged a few of her hits and she said he had fluid potential and she could mold him and that Batman was squandering him, and then she humiliated him. Toe to toe was the wrong way to say it, but he lasted longer than Batman.
I heard batman was ambushed and caught off guard?
He was, which makes it worse, in my opinion. He was brought down by 1 single shuriken to the shoulder.
@darktiger said:
Dick wins based off skill and popularity,but if you want the truth jason would win based off of killer instinct and don't forget he lost his rage,his only weakness that made him lose to nightwing in battle for the cowl
Funny, I thought not being as skilled made him lose in Battle for the Cowl :P
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: Yeah, her fight with Knightfall made me wanna puke. Had to have a kid in a mohawk in a jail cell save her life.
It was cool up until the whole "Let me turn my back on this villain who I hit and will definitely not stab me in the back as soon as I turn away."
@BatWatch said:
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: Yeah, her fight with Knightfall made me wanna puke. Had to have a kid in a mohawk in a jail cell save her life.
It was cool up until the whole "Let me turn my back on this villain who I hit and will definitely not stab me in the back as soon as I turn away."
My favorite part of that issue was when Knightfall was reminiscing about her psychotic boyfriend and she said "Made me watch him take their skin... it took 3 hours, he said he did it for the LULZ"
I dropped the book and didn't pick it up for at least 2 weeks.
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch said:
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: Yeah, her fight with Knightfall made me wanna puke. Had to have a kid in a mohawk in a jail cell save her life.
It was cool up until the whole "Let me turn my back on this villain who I hit and will definitely not stab me in the back as soon as I turn away."
My favorite part of that issue was when Knightfall was reminiscing about her psychotic boyfriend and she said "Made me watch him take their skin... it took 3 hours, he said he did it for the LULZ"
I dropped the book and didn't pick it up for at least 2 weeks.
(laughs) I actually enjoyed the issue overall, but yeah, I can respect the...inappropriateness of that line. Really undermined the serious tone.
@BatWatch said:
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch said:
@NyghtMare said:
@BatWatch: Yeah, her fight with Knightfall made me wanna puke. Had to have a kid in a mohawk in a jail cell save her life.
It was cool up until the whole "Let me turn my back on this villain who I hit and will definitely not stab me in the back as soon as I turn away."
My favorite part of that issue was when Knightfall was reminiscing about her psychotic boyfriend and she said "Made me watch him take their skin... it took 3 hours, he said he did it for the LULZ"
I dropped the book and didn't pick it up for at least 2 weeks.
(laughs) I actually enjoyed the issue overall, but yeah, I can respect the...inappropriateness of that line. Really undermined the serious tone.
I agree, it was probably my favorite issue overall. I think the art was spectacular and minus a few lapses in the dialogue, it was overall pretty well written. I liked the end too, still haven't read Batgirl #14, or anything else Bat-family recently, so I'm a little behind.
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