Battle takes place in Gotham at 11pm at the docs each gets One week of prep but no outside help, red hood gets 2 pistols Max + other standard equipment, nightwing gets 15 wingadings + regular equipment. they start 60 meters away from eachother. No outside help morals off for red hood blood lust for nightwing
#2
Edited by Enzeru
(1933 posts)
- 1 year, 6 months ago
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Red Hood wins because of the prep. He would prep to kill Nightwing and not just take him out.
That would include capturing scum bags and hiding them somewhere in a hall - forcing Nightwing to go after them and free them. Then it would be easy to blow the whole thing up and end the battle, aswell the lives of more then enough enemies. I don't see a bloodlusted Nightwing being skilled enough to take Red Hood fast enough out, to free them without having to worry about Red Hood. And since there is no outside help, he wouldn't have a different choice.
I see Jason being ruthless enough to pull that stunt off, if he is pushed to.
#6
Posted by Enzeru
(1933 posts)
- 1 year, 6 months ago
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@buttersdaman000 said:
@Enzeru: Nightwing already beat a prepped Jason in BFtC
It was not the kind of prep I was talking about. Dick Grayson is overall more skilled I would say and yeah, he could take out Jason Todd in a 1on1, but it's about who could win under the named circumstances and in that case Jason would win in my opinion, because he is far more ruthless and would go for a clear, safe takeout.
Mano et Mano I think this is Dick's fight to lose. HOwever I think Enzeru is right and while I think Todd is pretty much just a punk, I could totally see him just luring Nightwing into the deathtrap.
@Enzeru: In BFtC Jason electrocuted Dick and Rigged the Batcave yet he still lost. They both have one week prep and they both know each other well, but Nightwing clearly has the advantage in resources. So what makes you think Jason could just non nonchalantly take Dick out? Because he's more ruthless? Thats not a good reason.
So what makes you think Jason could just non nonchalantly take Dick out? Because he's more ruthless? Thats not a good reason.
The fact that Jason is willing to use lethal force and that he is willing to hold people hostage and kill them to achieve his goals. It's not about who of them the more skilled character is. Nightwing is clearly, because he has his natural acrobatic talent and he is better at martial arts, since he doesn't allow himself to use weapons and other stuff, while Red Hood does.
Red Hood is not unskilled. He is skilled enough to go toe on toe with him and stalemate him long enough until the bomb goes off. Nightwing knows that and he wouldn't take that risk. I'm talking about a perfect scenario for the Red Hood where he would have criminal hostages and force Nightwing to go after them. That is what he would be doing with a week of prep and he would have a clear advantage because of that.
Their fight during "Battle For The Cowl" wasn't their only meeting. Nightwing already had to deal with him before, when Jason was murdering criminals disguised as Nightwing. Jason Todd was also as the Red Hood more then once in the last Batman and Robin volume. Their last meeting ended with Batman and Robin trying to go after Red Hood and Scarlet, but they had to let them go, because Jason placed all over the city bombs and forced them to defuse them.
Once again. Dick Grayson (Nightwing) is overall more skilled then Jason Todd (Red Hood). But the OP made up a scenario where Red Hood has a great advantage, since his morals are off and he has a week of prep.
@Enzeru: Your scaling your argument in Jasons favor in a really extreme way. Your just assuming all of this would go down according to plan. As everybody else has said, and as its been done in the comics, Nightwing wins with or without prep
@Enzeru: Your scaling your argument in Jasons favor in a really extreme way. Your just assuming all of this would go down according to plan. As everybody else has said, and as its been done in the comics, Nightwing wins with or without prep
I'm being realistic.
Honestly I agree with Enzeru, as much as Dick is more skilled all around I think Jason could pull it off, I mean think about it, even if Grayson knows Jason has hostages hes not gonna let them die, he'll have no choice but to play into Jason's trap, and with no morals Jason would just kill everyone. But if they were going toe to toe Dick destroys him. So Jason 6/10 because of prep and morals
Honestly I agree with Enzeru, as much as Dick is more skilled all around I think Jason could pull it off, I mean think about it, even if Grayson knows Jason has hostages hes not gonna let them die, he'll have no choice but to play into Jason's trap, and with no morals Jason would just kill everyone. But if they were going toe to toe Dick destroys him. So Jason 6/10 because of prep and morals
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Under the OP's rules ... Nightwing dies. That's for sure. Most of the people who are voting for Nightwing either didn't read the rules of the fight and believe it would be a simple "Nightwing VS Red Hood" thread, or they don't know shit about Red Hood and his ruthlessness. If he prepares to kill Nightwing, then Nightwing dies. Period.
Honestly I agree with Enzeru, as much as Dick is more skilled all around I think Jason could pull it off, I mean think about it, even if Grayson knows Jason has hostages hes not gonna let them die, he'll have no choice but to play into Jason's trap, and with no morals Jason would just kill everyone. But if they were going toe to toe Dick destroys him. So Jason 6/10 because of prep and morals
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Under the OP's rules ... Nightwing dies. That's for sure. Most of the people who are voting for Nightwing either didn't read the rules of the fight and now simply believe it would be a simply "Nightwing VS Red Hood" thread, or they don't know shit about Red Hood and his ruthlessness. If he prepares to kill Nightwing, then Nightwing dies. Period.
I love how you're insinuating people haven't read anything but the funny thing is they didn't even write anything to say why but here ya go on a long winded speech of why person A beats person B and claiming everyone is wrong "period". Read up on the characters before claiming you're right and everyone else is wrong when you should probably read up on the characters and re-read the OP yourself.
Honestly I agree with Enzeru, as much as Dick is more skilled all around I think Jason could pull it off, I mean think about it, even if Grayson knows Jason has hostages hes not gonna let them die, he'll have no choice but to play into Jason's trap, and with no morals Jason would just kill everyone. But if they were going toe to toe Dick destroys him. So Jason 6/10 because of prep and morals
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Under the OP's rules ... Nightwing dies. That's for sure. Most of the people who are voting for Nightwing either didn't read the rules of the fight and now simply believe it would be a simply "Nightwing VS Red Hood" thread, or they don't know shit about Red Hood and his ruthlessness. If he prepares to kill Nightwing, then Nightwing dies. Period.
@daredevil21134: Why? Nightwing's beat him when Jason was prepped and trying to kill Dick in a straight up fight. They both get prep here, Dick has better resources at his disposal and the whole argument Jason wins using lethal force and Dick won't is pointless because Dick is bloodlusted as well.
Red Hood wins because of the prep. He would prep to kill Nightwing and not just take him out. That would include capturing scum bags and hiding them somewhere in a hall - forcing Nightwing to go after them and free them. Then it would be easy to blow the whole thing up and end the battle, aswell the lives of more then enough enemies. I don't see a bloodlusted Nightwing being skilled enough to take Red Hood fast enough out, to free them without having to worry about Red Hood. And since there is no outside help, he wouldn't have a different choice. I see Jason being ruthless enough to pull that stunt off, if he is pushed to.
It sounds like you are only giving Red Hood one week of prep in your scenario, which is not what the OP stated.
@daredevil21134: Why? Nightwing's beat him when Jason was prepped and trying to kill Dick in a straight up fight. They both get prep here, Dick has better resources at his disposal and the whole argument Jason wins using lethal force and Dick won't is pointless because Dick is bloodlusted as well.
Jason had just got done getting hit in the face with a crowbar by Tim and right after that he ran into Noghtwing I don't think he was prepared for that.But anyways i'm sure nobody remembers that.And if Jason truly wanted kill Dick he would have done in Batman and Robin when he had both Dick and Damian at his mercy
Honestly I agree with Enzeru, as much as Dick is more skilled all around I think Jason could pull it off, I mean think about it, even if Grayson knows Jason has hostages hes not gonna let them die, he'll have no choice but to play into Jason's trap, and with no morals Jason would just kill everyone. But if they were going toe to toe Dick destroys him. So Jason 6/10 because of prep and morals
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Under the OP's rules ... Nightwing dies. That's for sure. Most of the people who are voting for Nightwing either didn't read the rules of the fight and believe it would be a simple "Nightwing VS Red Hood" thread, or they don't know shit about Red Hood and his ruthlessness. If he prepares to kill Nightwing, then Nightwing dies. Period.
The fight is not: Only Red Hood gets months of prep and then Nightwing must stop him.
The fight is: Both fighters get one week of prep, and then meet and fight at the docks at a certain time.
@daredevil21134: Why? Nightwing's beat him when Jason was prepped and trying to kill Dick in a straight up fight. They both get prep here, Dick has better resources at his disposal and the whole argument Jason wins using lethal force and Dick won't is pointless because Dick is bloodlusted as well.
Jason had just got done getting hit in the face with a crowbar by Tim and right after that he ran into Noghtwing I don't think he was prepared for that.But anyways i'm sure nobody remembers that.And if Jason truly wanted kill Dick he would have done in Batman and Robin when he had both Dick and Damian at his mercy
And Dick didn't prep like Jason did in that instance nor was he bloodlusted like he is here. Dick isn't hindered by his usual character here and Jason who isn't afraid to kill can't play that to his advantage.
It sounds like you are only giving Red Hood one week of prep in your scenario, which is not what the OP stated.
I kept that in mind.
It's just that Nightwing won't be able to come up with something to gain the upper hand, because Jason Todd will always have the upper hand because of his missing morals and one week of prep. I know that Nightwing is able to defeat Red Hood in a random fight, without any bigger preparation due to his superior skill / will, but in THIS fight it's all about the morals.
Nightwing won't let people die, even though they're criminals and he won't got after Red Hood and try to beat the living crap out of him, just to learn about the hideout and the traps. He is not that skilled and Jason will be able to stalemate him long enough to make his set up more and more effective.
This is not a fight thread, this is a pure assassination. Either Nightwing defeats Jason Todd in a fist fight and lets criminals die, which he would never do, since it would be hugely out of character, or he leaves Red Hood be and goes after them. Red Hood would even give him the location coordinates, but then he would simply try to ambush Nightwing from behind. Red Hood has so much he can use against Nightwing, while Nightwing has nothing to threaten Red Hood with - or to keep him calm or what so ever.
Deal with it.
I'm a huge fan of Richard Grayson alias Nightwing - I used to have his entire second Volume including all the Annuals and stuff like that - and I'm a huge fan of Jason Todd alias Red Hood aswell. After the Sentry they're few of my favorite characters, so I know more then enough about them and I'm not even a DC guy.
@daredevil21134: Why? Nightwing's beat him when Jason was prepped and trying to kill Dick in a straight up fight. They both get prep here, Dick has better resources at his disposal and the whole argument Jason wins using lethal force and Dick won't is pointless because Dick is bloodlusted as well.
Jason had just got done getting hit in the face with a crowbar by Tim and right after that he ran into Noghtwing I don't think he was prepared for that.But anyways i'm sure nobody remembers that.And if Jason truly wanted kill Dick he would have done in Batman and Robin when he had both Dick and Damian at his mercy
And Dick didn't prep like Jason did in that instance nor was he bloodlusted like he is here. Dick isn't hindered by his usual character here and Jason who isn't afraid to kill can't play that to his advantage.
True,but i'm still going with the Champion of the All Caste here lol
It's just that Nightwing won't be able to come up with something to gain the upper hand, because Jason Todd will always have the upper hand because of his missing morals and one week of prep. I know that Nightwing is able to defeat Red Hood in a random fight, without any bigger preparation due to his superior skill / will, but in THIS fight it's all about the morals.
That turned him into a killer, when he got his hands on the Joker. But I would also say that was a huge lecture for him.
Being bloodlusted during his fight against a preped Red Hood, who instantly addresses at the beginning of the fight that he is holding hostages (but criminals) and that they will die if Nightwing doesn't play along ... it would be already over. Nightwing wouldn't risk their lives.
Stop being so narrow-minded. You're one of the people who would also instantly try to argue for Colossus in a "Carnage VS Colossus" and totally ignore Carnage's ruthlessness and the will to kill - to keep hostages and use them as human shields and as a bait to force Colossus to leave his indestructible form and force him to keep it.
Red Hood with one week prep and without morals > Nightwing Carnage in a open wide, populated area > Colossus.
It's easy as that. If the OP would include PIS, or CIS ... then it would be a different story. Under these circumstances - Red Hood stomps.
That turned him into a killer, when he got his hands on the Joker. But I would also say that was a huge lecture for him.
Being bloodlusted during his fight against a preped Red Hood, who instantly addresses at the beginning of the fight that he is holding hostages (but criminals) and that they will die if Nightwing doesn't play along ... it would be already over. Nightwing wouldn't risk their lives.
Stop being so narrow-minded. You're one of the people who would also instantly try to argue for Colossus in a "Carnage VS Colossus" and totally ignore Carnage's ruthlessness and the will to kill - to keep hostages and use them as human shields and as a bait to force Colossus to leave his indestructible form and force him to keep it.
Red Hood with one week prep and without morals > Nightwing Carnage in a open wide, populated area > Colossus.
It's easy as that. If the OP would include PIS, or CIS ... then it would be a different story. Under these circumstances - Red Hood stomps.
Again: clearly, you are only giving Red Hood the prep. You let him set up Gotham City to his liking, and then (and only then), Nightwing swoops in.
It's obvious that you have not considered, at all, what a bloodlusted Nightwing would do in his week of prep.
It's also obvious that your mind is made up on this matter.
Again: clearly, you are only giving Red Hood the prep. You let him set up Gotham City to his liking, and then (and only then), Nightwing swoops in.
It's obvious that you have not considered, at all, what a bloodlusted Nightwing would do in his week of prep.
It's also obvious that your mind is made up on this matter.
In many instances you don't even have to prepare for characters like Nightwing and Batman. Deathstroke and Batman prepare to take out the Justice League. Thanos and Dr. Doom prepare to take over the Universe. Reed Richards prepares to stalemate Galactus. When it comes to Nightwing and Red Hood, you don't prepare ... you set a trap. And because of his ruthlessness, the lack of morals and the will to kill Jason Todd has the clear advantage, since all he has to do is to lure Nightwing somewhere and put a bullet through his head.
Only PIS can protect Nightwing from that and it does on a regular basis. Nightwing can't prepare to face Red Hood. What is he supposed to do? Develop Anti-Red-Hood-Gadget-Missles which would instantly defuse all the bombs and and traps Red Hood places? Would they free captured hostages and so on?
Judging by the prep Red Hood has the clear advantage. Nightwing's only chance would be a truth serum. He would have to overpower Jason Todd and to force him to say where the hostages are and gather all the informations about the traps. But that would take way too much time and the risk that Red Hood could simply pull the trigger would be too high for Nightwing to take. Out of character. And now stop being silly, or at least come with some arguments.
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