Nightwing vs. Puma

And? Doesnt mean they should logically be a match for them

"And? Doesnt mean they should logically be a match for them"

"uh uh."

I still have not heard how Nightwing would actually defeat Puma.

The same way he beats all the villains he fights that are superhuman but not durable enough to take a bullet.He beats them down."

No.He's because he's capable of doing so."

I don't remember Green Goblin getting in many hits in a fist fight with Spider-Man."

The same way he beats all the villains he fights that are superhuman but not durable enough to take a bullet.He beats them down."

"

I still have not heard how Nightwing would actually defeat Puma.

"

Puma.

"Now..As far as Puma is concerned.He is nowhere near Nightwing's ability in combat.He's not to fast to get tagged and he's not to smart to be lead into an ass whoopin' especially by someone who is not only smarter than him but is more versed in combat."

Let's take this from the top.
Puma has the following superhuman physical characteristics: reaction speed (aprox equal to Spiderman, so 15x normal human), agility, strength (12 tonnes) and endurance (able to fight for hours).
Additionally he has enhanced human level durability, being able to withstand blows from beings as strong as Spiderman without serious injury.
Now I did some background reading and in the Master edition of the Marvel handbook his intelligence is also described as being at the level of an Extraordinary Genius. I think that this stems from the selective bredding program his ancestors embarked on. This puts him a similar level of intellect (at least) as Nightwing.
Puma has been trained from birth to be a perfect warrior. This training included studying various martial arts (to master level).
Additionally he has a set of claws that when backed by his strength can wood and cinderblock with ease.

So overall he is a pretty tough customer that gave Spiderman a couple of close runs.

Now again let's say that Nightwing is 3 times faster in reaction speed than a normal human, which seems reasonable, considering the feats he does.
Now put yourself in Puma's 'shoes'. You have an opponent who reacts and moves at approx 25% of your own speed.
Therefore he has plenty of time to recognise the attack moves his opponent is performing. This means that although Nightwing can potentially hit Puma, the frequency of hits should be lowered and Puma's enhanced durability means that these blows will do significantly less damage.
The vast reaction speed advantage that Puma has also means that conversely he has a far higher chance of hitting and he can afford to make called shots (his claws vs Nightwings eyes for example).
Although I believe that Nightwing is the superior hand to hand fighter and a better tactician, I don't think these abilities and his equipment overcomes the massive (and make no doubt the differences are massive) physical advanatages that Puma has.
Puma is in all likelyhood stronger than Killer Croc and is faster in reaction speed than most of the opponents that I can think Nightwing has faced.

Puma should win.

Nightwing can beat anyone

"Nightwing can beat anyone
"

"Nightwing can beat anyone
"

"Annoyance! said:

"Nightwing can beat anyone
"

WELCOME TO THE VINE:

WELCOME TO THE FAIL LIST
"

I know what Puma's powers are.

As far as his intellect the Master Edition of the Handbook does say he's an extraordinary genius which I have not seen evidence of.Maybe I haven't read alot with him in it.

The same Handbook also says he's a master of one style.Nightwing is a master of several.

Yea he went a h2h with Spider-Man but so did people physically below the level of Nightwing on a consistent basis.Puma also lost a fight to Wolverine who is below the physical level of Nightwing as far as strength,speed,agility ect.Not the durabilty.

Now..like most people who are below the physical level of their opponent in combat..Nightwing isn't going to slug it out with Puma.He's going to try and go for a move that would knock anyone out instantly.Like what Nightwing did with Blockbuster.He knew Blockbuster was stronger than him so he used his agility to get into position than he kicked him in a certain spot between his neck and chin and dropped him like a ton of bricks.

I still think Nightwing wins.

"

I don't care anymore.You win.Puma wins.

@ferro_vida: punisher never beat Spiderman liar after their first encounter Spiderman simply kicked him and ko'd him.

@thekillerofgods: Well Frank does have two legit wins on Parker (that I know of). One was in the 70s with a rubber bullet and the other was recently, but he did have prep on his side

@visemoon: you should research before you say that because that fight in the 70's led to spiderman easily knocking him out. For what ever recent comic your talking about punisher never beat spidey,probably got the jump on him but never took him out.

Unless I'm missing something Puma handily.

@thekillerofgods: trust me when I say this...I know Spiderman very, very well. Punisher beat Spiderman with a rubber bullet by predicting his movement. Spidey was down and out in pain incapable of continuing the fight in that instance. He lost that round. I'll post scans later.

The 2nd time was with Punisher beating Spiderman...like I said earlier with prep. Spiderman was down and out from the explosion. Frank could have killed and took mercy and ran off. I'll post that later as well

@thekillerofgods: Here you go. You should research before you make a bold statement like "Punisher never beaten Spider-Man" Because Frank has beaten him…more that once

@visemoon said:

@thekillerofgods: Here you go. You should research before you make a bold statement like "Punisher never beaten Spider-Man" Because Frank has beaten him…more that once

I'm really digging that art style.

@visemoon: pretty sure he didn't actually beat him in that like I said got the jump on him. Leading up to that fight spidey also was toying with him so....your scan proves nothing

@thekillerofgods: Dude are you blind?...Peter lost. When a opponent is incapable of fighting back and the other guys has him at his mercy...it is a lost...period. scan proves everything.

Just like the time When Frank beat him with a sleep grenade, and with 2 knIves pinned Peter to a wall...he lost.

Don't make your love of a character blind you. It makes you look childish

@visemoon: you sound foolish that scan is from punisher war journal where spiderman was toying with him most of the fight so it's quite childish to make logic off false facts.

Like I said punisher can't win, at the beginning spiderman was taunting him and still was winning.

Be realistic in the beginning spiderman could've easily won except he wanted to know why frank used his web shooters to commit a murder.

your dismissed sir, already disproved one of beliefs that punisher beat spiderman in the 1970's, now again I disproved your scan.

I wouldn't count the time Frank pinned him to the wall as a lost. Admittedly it does look like Frank was going to shoot him since Peter decided to pull out the knives. However he could have webbed him up. We don't really know what would have happened.

All though yea punisher has beaten Peter a couple of times. All though for the record he should never win a random encounter.

I saw the title of this thread and got excited thinking someone else liked the Puma in Mechwarrior.

@thekillerofgods:

you sound foolish that scan is from punisher war journal where spiderman was toying with him most of the fight so it's quite childish to make logic off false facts.

False fact?! Only one being foolish here is you. Turn down the fanboyism and except the truth. The fact is he lost scan and proves it. I don't care if Spiderman was toying with him or not. He still lost and you were wrong. Do research before you make a bold statement like that. This in the 2nd time you have done this (That I know of) which makes me believe there might be more

Like I said punisher can't win, at the beginning spiderman was taunting him and still was winning.

Yeah, he WAS winning, but at the end of the fight, who was standing over a downed opponent?

Be realistic in the beginning spiderman could've easily won except he wanted to know why frank used his web shooters to commit a murder.

Could of, should of, would of doesn't apply here… The fact of WHAT actually happened does. He lost and you are having a rough time with it. Now I know The Amazing One would win the solid majority over Frank 9/10. But I'm just making you aware that Frank has beaten him a few times in the past. And you not accepting it it quite humorous

your dismissed sir, already disproved one of beliefs that punisher beat spiderman in the 1970's, now again I disproved your scan.

LOL, my young friend, only thing you have proving so far is inability to comprehend. You just shown a scan of Spidey beating Frank…and that it. You didn't disprove nothing.

Here is a quote is just read from someone here recently "lol fanboy go somewhere with that bs apparently you don't read and stop making excuses damn sounding quite desperate to have batman win."…LMAO You might to take your own advice…in the mean time here is more. I can't wait for your response. I know I will have a nice little chuckle

And...

It was the 1980s, Amazing Spider-Man Annual #15

Oh, ok…thank you:)

@visemoon: lol such a sore loser how about you post the rest of those scans ctfu it's like you was uploading random pictures you found off Google. Spiderman won at the end of those two scans you provided.

I never met a punisher fanboy before,seems you need to research somemore.

@thekillerofgods: there is nothing left. He lost. 3 times that I know about. And just because someone proves you wrong doesn't make them a fanboy. You were wrong when you said Punisher never beaten Peter. Man up and deal with it. Taking the "cover ears chanting la la la, I'm not listening" approach, makes you look like a child. But if you are child , then that explains it all

And for the record. I'm a Spiderman fanboy. Check out the avatar

nightwings only chance of winning is knocking puma out with the use of his gadgets like tazers.......... but that's usually not his first to go move, so i think it might be too late, before he gets to use them

@visemoon: It's like arguing with a kid,so you have me believe also how castle shot Spiderman with a shotgun too is believable when he struggles against daredevil.

Or that he's capable fending off the avengers.

Lol can't argue with a child in any of those encounters never did punisher win.

Like I said provide the rest of those scans and see who's giving who mercy and you think your avatar proves anything,it could also prove that to have a valid point on vs spiderman fights that your banter is less bias.

@thekillerofgods:

It's like arguing with a kid,so you have me believe also how castle shot Spiderman with a shotgun too is believable when he struggles against daredevil.

I think its pretty evident who the child is. And who cares if Spidey got shot with a shotgun...take it up with the writers. He still lost to Punisher

Lol can't argue with a child in any of those encounters never did punisher win.

We both know who the Child is. Dude...Frank took Spiderman out with a gas grenade. Peter is knocked and Frank walks away and the comic book ended that way. That is a lost

Recently Frank threw a grenade and kicked Spidey. Leaving him unable to continue fight and at his mercy, as he walks away. That is a win

And the mercy bullet along with a non lethal grenade, had Peter unable to continue the fight...that's a win

Like I said provide the rest of those scans and see who's giving who mercy

I have a better idea. How about you try to debunk the evidence before you, because its becoming clear you do not have a clue on what you're talking about and what constitutes a win

you think your avatar proves anything,it could also prove that to have a valid point on vs spiderman fights that your banter is less bias.

Young man, look at all my previous post on everything regarding The Amazing One. You will see I'm an avid fan. A true fan accepted when his character has lost a fight or would lose a fight to a opponent...A a child fan would deny, ignore and say "la la, la, I'm not listening". We already know the kind of fan you are

But, keep it up. You are very entertaining lol. Can't wait for your next child like response

@visemoon: nice kid,but do you love repeating yourself debunk what your bs statement with the rubber bullet and non lethal grenade ctfu.

Man I love debating with jokes.

@thekillerofgods: try again...you didn't debunk nothing.

Let me explain this so you can understand. I will type this slow for you...

You...(without doing any research) made a bold statement (stay with me now) saying Punisher NEVER beaten Spider-Man.

I show you 3 irrefutable proof the Pun has without a shadow of a doubt beaten the Amazing One

And 1st you tried to deny and ignore them...now you are saying you debunk one of the scans because, supposedly Peter beat him later on?!?

Let me let you in on a little secret. That is not a debunk. It doesn't matter...I repeat (because you can't seem to grasp this) It doesn't matter what happened later on. Peter could have beaten Punisher a 1000X Over later on,but it STILL doesn't change the fact prior to that...he-still-lost-to-Punisher. I don't know what world you live in, but that win for Frank doesn't go away because you want it

You were wrong. Man up and admit it, accept it, learn from it and move on. It's part of the growing up process

@visemoon: I swore I already disproved your scans but you know maybe it's just me then arguing with a kid gets me going nowhere

So I'm going to stop debating with because I'm not running in circles.

@thekillerofgods: Lol...you actually thought this was a debate?! That is so cute.

A debate is when 2 or more people contribute facts and opinions to an argument. You did neither.

This was a learning opportunity for you. I'm the teacher and you are the students. Your 1st lesson was not to make bold statements without doing research

The 2nd lessons was to recognize fact from fiction. A lesson you failed...miserably

Puma in a good fight.

Puma high difficulty.