#1 Edited by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick Grayson

VS

Rules

  • Nightwing has standard gear
  • David Cain has a cevlar vest, dual pistols with unlimited bullets but must reload, and a combat knife
  • win by KO/Death/Incapacitation
  • Morals are on
  • Takes place 50 feet apart
  • Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Nighwing. Over the years, he has given Bruce better fights than Cain has.

#3 Edited by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio

Here are some David Cain scans if anyone wants:

David Cain trained Deadshot for a bit. He also beats him while tied.
VS Batman
VS cassandra (daddy issues could play a slight role)
VS Batman again

#4 Posted by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Nighwing. Over the years, he has given Bruce better fights than Cain has.

Nightwing doesn't have the best track record against batman.

#5 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

David cain

#6 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Is David in his prime, or is he a drunken fool? If he is in his prime, then David. More experience, more skill, way more pain tolerance, he's accurate enough to tag Dick. I'd say he'd win based on his fight with his daughter alone, actually being able to go toe to toe with Cass is more than what I can say for Grayson.

#7 Posted by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ancient_0f_days: We will go with Cain when he is old.

In that case, I'll give a small edge to Grayson since he is more agile and his youth will make up for what he lacks in skill, he's gonna be able to dodge Cain's fire long enough to get in close. I still say Cain wins, but it is much closer than if he was a few years younger.

#9 Posted by dondave (38487 posts) - - Show Bio

David

#10 Posted by dondave (38487 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Nighwing. Over the years, he has given Bruce better fights than Cain has.

Really? He got stomped by Bruce during Batman #600

#11 Posted by russellmania77 (15668 posts) - - Show Bio

nightwing cuz he's awesome

#12 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: David has lots against Bruce twice (arguably). Although Dick has never won against Bruce, he has given him better, longer fights, in which he has gotten more hits in.

#13 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Neither does Cain. Nightwing has held his own against much faster and stronger opponents. The way i see it is, Cain could have the potential to beat Nightwing, but he lacks the feats to prove that.

#14 Edited by dondave (38487 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: He didn't land a single hit and Bruce wasn't trying to fight him

#15 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: David has lots against Bruce twice (arguably). Although Dick has never won against Bruce, he has given him better, longer fights, in which he has gotten more hits in.

Dick only landed one hit from what I remember, other than that, if Bruce didn't want to get hit, he wasn't hit.

@jashro44: Neither does Cain. Nightwing has held his own against much faster and stronger opponents. The way i see it is, Cain could have the potential to beat Nightwing, but he lacks the feats to prove that.

Actually, David held his own against his own daughter who is arguably more skilled, faster, and more lethal than Nightwing .... also, David got shot, didn't care, and shot his shooter...Deadshot. Grayson hasn't done better against Batman than Cain has, not only that, but David was a drunken couch potato who was way out of shape during one of those fights with Batman, in another one he had Batman bleeding....

#16 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: That was ONE fight. Over the years, it has been much different.

He showed a slight upper hand against a clone of Bruce, who not only had the original skills that Bruce had, he was also submerged in a lazarus pit, granting him Superhuman abilities.

He held his own against Bruce when he had some of freaking Superman's power.

He has fought Deathstroke to a stalemate, more than once. Someone who beat the tar out of Bruce, and is faster, stronger than Cain will ever be.

Cassandra Cain decisively beat David Cain in their fight. Dick has fought her to a stalemate.

#17 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Actually, David held his own against his own daughter who is arguably more skilled, faster, and more lethal than Nightwing

He held his own, and lost. Dick has fought her to a stalemate.

Grayson hasn't done better against Batman than Cain has, not only that, but David was a drunken couch potato who was way out of shape during one of those fights with Batman, in another one he had Batman bleeding....

Like i mentioned above, Dick had a superhuman Batman bleeding. While Batman has some of Superman's powers, he kicked him so hard that he actually felt it.

Dick has fought Deathstroke to a stalemate. Who is much stronger, faster and far more lethal.

#18 Posted by dondave (38487 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

He was only able to fight Batman because he was Sun-Deprived and wasn't invested in the fight.

Deathstroke has made a career of beating Nightwing, one stalemate doesn't help his track record

Cassandra was able to dodge Nightwing and Batman without really trying; when did he beat her?

#19 Posted by dondave (38487 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by nick_hero22 (6943 posts) - - Show Bio

David Cain

#21 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

He was only able to fight Batman because he was Sun-Deprived and wasn't invested in the fight.

That doesn't change the fact that he was still far beyond David Cain. Or the fact that Nightwing was able to hurt him with a kick. Something that David Cain has never shown the ability to do.

Deathstroke has made a career of beating Nightwing, one stalemate doesn't help his track record

Fine, if one won't help his "track record" will two change your mind?

Stalemates him as Nightwing, disarms him of his gun, and breaks through his staff.

Stalemates him as Batman, disarms him of his sword in the process.

I don't see how you can say the one stalemate doesn't help his track record. Batman (someone who has beaten Cain on two occasions) has also, only had one stalemate against Slade. He hasn't made a career ont of beating Dick. He has beaten him on a few occasions, his showings are no better than Bruce's. Can David Cain stalemate Slade Wilson? even once? He has almost no feats that suggest that he can.

Cassandra was able to dodge Nightwing and Batman without really trying; when did he beat her?

I never said that he beat her. I said that he fought her to a Stalemate, which he did.

So, besides a sneak attack from Cassandra, they get the same number of hits in. Nightwing wasn't even phased by Cassandra.

I can see why you think that Cain wins, but i think that you are underestimating Dick too. Cain may have the potential to win, but he lacks feats to back that up.

#22 Edited by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

Can David Cain stalemate Slade Wilson? even once? He has almost no feats that suggest that he can.

Deathstroke and David Cain have fought once when David Cain was in his prime. It was a stalemate. Not saying he wins just throwing that out there.

#23 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Really? wow. Can i see the scans?

#24 Posted by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: There isn't really much to it but sure:

Keep in mind this was when he was in his prime. Personally though I don't think nightwing or David should be able to defeat or stalemate deathstroke. I would say he should be able to beat both without much trouble.

#25 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I agree. Slade is seemingly at a level where he is in between characters like Spiderman, and characters like Batman. I think that he gets lowballed a lot. The man has some very impressive feats.

As far as this battle goes, however, I would take Grayson's two on-panel stalemates with Slade over Cain's one off-panel stalmate without a doubt.

#26 Posted by jashro44 (22836 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: I agree with your ranking of deathstroke. Thats where I would rank him as well.

I agree David cains stalemate against deathstorke shouldn't be taken to seriously however I wouldn't take nightwings to seriously either. He does have some good showings against Slade like the ones you posted (there is another fight with slade he takes the upper hand as well), however on average Deathstroke usually defeats nightwing without much trouble.