Nightwing vs Bane

@Morpheus_ said:

@Rolandthunder25 said:

@Morpheus_ said:

Nightwing isn't on par with Batman. Not even close.

That is a matter of opinion...which is probably why the argument itself is pretty old...

I can just as easily say Nightwing is on par with Galactus and that will also be a matter of opinion. It wouldn't change the fact that both opinions would be erroneous.

Now you're just being silly....their is a reason why Dick was the successor after Bruce left and many other heroes and villains have given him his due for picking up where Bruce left off, including Bane...needless to say many would agree and could argue that he has shown to be Bruce's equal in many ways (both having qualities the other lacks).

Dick has always represented the best physical attributes of all of those who have carried the mantel of Robin, more recently perfecting it as Nightwing...

Tim was always the best detective...

Jason was his thirst for justice and vengeance...

So yes it is quite understandable that one could argue that he has shown throughout his career to grow into the physical equal of Bruce...

@Rolandthunder25: You type too much to say very little that have nothing to do with the battle at hand or the comparison between Nightwing and Batman. So, I ask, who is being silly?

@Morpheus_ said:

@Rolandthunder25: You type too much to say very little that have nothing to do with the battle at hand or the comparison between Nightwing and Batman. So, I ask, who is being silly?

Sorry I "type too much" but I actually like to make a point instead of naming random intergalactic gods...which is of course completely on topic...

NIGHTWING WINS. MY FANBOYISM WON'T ALLOW ANY OTHER OUTCOME. ALL HAIL NIGHTWING'S VERY OWN UNITED ASSOCIATION OF NIGHTBIRDS.

@Morpheus_ said:

Nightwing isn't on par with Batman. Not even close.

I agree with the first part. Don't think I agree with the second, I think Grayson could give him a fight. Then again, the statement above probably doesn't add value or impact to my statement...

@Rolandthunder25 said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@Rolandthunder25: You type too much to say very little that have nothing to do with the battle at hand or the comparison between Nightwing and Batman. So, I ask, who is being silly?

Sorry I "type too much" but I actually like to make a point

You seem to like making points that are irrelevant to the discussion and several of your supposed points along with the conclusion are incorrect to begin with.

instead of naming random intergalactic gods...which is of course completely on topic...

The use of a paradigm was to illustrate opinions can very well be wrong. Galactus does not factor into it, nor was I off topic in any way.

Now, if you have an actual argument to support Dick Grayson as being on par with Batman, please present it.

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

It was twice that he tried and failed, yes?

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

When? We're talking post-Batman era Grayson, yes?

@Erik said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

It was twice that he tried and failed, yes?

I only recall of the instance in Batman # 600, but it is possible that my memory fails me and they have fought on some other occasion, as well.

@ReVamp said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

When? We're talking post-Batman era Grayson, yes?

I do not see how donning the cape made Dick better..... Unless THAT is where that nasty bat-factor has been hiding. ;p

@ReVamp said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

When? We're talking post-Batman era Grayson, yes?

Post Batman era Grayson hasn't received any additional training in comparison to pre-Batman era Grayson to make him superior to his former self in anything but maturity and experience.

@Erik said:

@ReVamp said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

I think Grayson could give him a fight.

He already tried and failed.

When? We're talking post-Batman era Grayson, yes?

I do not see how donning the cape made Dick better..... Unless THAT is where that nasty bat-factor has been hiding. ;p

Lol.

Well, since I don't know which instances you guys are talking about, I just want to make sure we're not talking about him when he was in crutches or was wearing Bat-speedos.

@ReVamp said:

Well, since I don't know which instances you guys are talking about, I just want to make sure we're not talking about him when he was in crutches or was wearing Bat-speedos.

The fight occurred roughly 20 years (in real time, of course) after he became Nightwing.

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp said:

Well, since I don't know which instances you guys are talking about, I just want to make sure we're not talking about him when he was in crutches or was wearing Bat-speedos.

The fight occurred roughly 20 years (in real time, of course) after he became Nightwing.

Runs Away Crying.

Morph, you ruined my dreams! :'(

@ReVamp: For what it's worth, I think Nightwing should have performed better in their fight, too.

@Morpheus_ said:

Bane wins for the simple reason that they fought twice, and he already beat Dick in both encounters. And in close quarters, where Nightwing cannot properly utilize his trademark agility, the disadvantage is all the more grave.

QFT.

@Morpheus_ said:

@ReVamp: For what it's worth, I think Nightwing should have performed better in their fight, too.

Pffff. Typical Wife beater attitude, first they hit you hard enough to bleed, then them mofoes say dey love you.

@Morpheus_: @Erik: It annoys me that Grayson can hang with Deathstroke one moment, get owned by Bane the next, then kick the snot out of some of the League of Assassins it makes no sense. He is almost as bad as Jason todd...:p

Bane is stronger, is an adept fighter, and has the smarts to take Nightwing out.

@Final Arrow said:

@Morpheus_: @Erik: It annoys me that Grayson can hang with Deathstroke one moment, get owned by Bane the next, then kick the snot out of some of the League of Assassins it makes no sense. He is almost as bad as Jason todd...:p

Same here, I had this discussion with ReVamp a little while ago.

LOL, Jason is an odd case.

@Morpheus_: It's how people get the idea that Grayson is able to hang with Batrman, the fact is he is the greatest Robin (in my eyes) but he is no Batman and I just don't think he will ever have the mentality to be at that level Bane takes this fight in my eyes, just wanted to agree with you and Erik

Bane wins in close quarters, no contest. If it were a situation where Dick had room for maneuverability, then I think Nightwing would edge out Bane in terms of his superior agility and skill. Also, though I love Tim, he would be utterly screwed without prep time in any situation against Bane. Tim's never been the greatest of fighters.

@PsychoKnights: What have we seen to prove Grayson is indeed more skilled than Bane?

@Final Arrow: @Morpheus_: @Erik: I love when people cite Grayson in the cowl taking on Deathstroke in Titans, but then totally disregard all of the other nonsense that took place in that book. The "if it favors my opinion, it's fine" mentality is such crap.

I like to think that writers used Nightwing as a stepping stone to make Batman look better,either directly(Fugitive) or indirectly(Bane,Shiva,etc).Even Dixon is guilty of this,hopefully this trend will not continue.

@entropy_aegis said:

I like to think that writers used Nightwing as a stepping stone to make Batman look better,either directly(Fugitive) or indirectly(Bane,Shiva,etc).Even Dixon is guilty of this,hopefully this trend will not continue.

With Shiva, it's more so a case of Dixon making Connor look better rather than Batman.

Fugitive fight was BS. I don't even regard it as a fight. Even so, Nightwing vs Slade was totaly BS too (in titans)

@k4tzm4n: Grayson consistently targets his enemies weaknesses and strikes with effortless precision while using their environment against them. Bane might be a genius, but I've never seen him display anything more than brute force when it comes to fisticuffs.

@PsychoKnights said:

@k4tzm4n: Grayson consistently targets his enemies weaknesses and strikes with effortless precision while using their environment against them. Bane might be a genius, but I've never seen him display anything more than brute force when it comes to fisticuffs.

Um he goes after the throat,ribs,head etc.Not to mention if he catches you,then whatever he's holding(arm,leg,neck etc) is gonna be snapped or ripped right off.

@PsychoKnights said:

@k4tzm4n: Grayson consistently targets his enemies weaknesses and strikes with effortless precision while using their environment against them. Bane might be a genius, but I've never seen him display anything more than brute force when it comes to fisticuffs.

It sounds like your Bane reading is limited to Secret Six because he's very skilled and far from using just "brute force" in fights.

I don't think one can make a convincing case for Bane being more skilled than Nightwing purely on technical proficiency alone. Bane is definitely skilled, but what styles is he supposed to have mastered? Who did he train with, and for how long? There simply is no answer to those questions because we simply do not know. He's a brutally effective combatant but his inhuman strength, durability and even speed (particularly for his size) are just as great advantages as his skill. With Nightwing it's much easier to verify and prove.

@entropy_aegis: Been meaning to ask you, what did you think of Bane in Secret Six, as a Bane fan? What's the general consensus?

@ReVamp said:

@entropy_aegis: Been meaning to ask you, what did you think of Bane in Secret Six, as a Bane fan? What's the general consensus?

I liked it,Simone really got his personality and physical ability.My biggest complaint was/is that Catman/Bronze Tiger fight.It should have been Bane vs Bronze Tiger,Blake is'nt in that weight class.

@k4tzm4n:I personally think post Battle for the Cowl Nightwing can defeat Bane.I mean this guy goes toe to toe with Deathstroke.I put my money on him.

@k4tzm4n said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

@Stronger said:

@BigCimmerian: @Phaedrusgr:

I think Nightwing and even Tim Drake(versions after the Battle For tthe Cowl story arc.) can take him.

Bane would defeat classic versions though.

You think Tim Drake could beat Bane? LOL

-_-

Unamused face is unamused.

And for the record (Stronger), Bane embarrassed classic Drake. He'd wreck current, too.

@(((Prodigy))): Classic Tim Drake is very different from current Tim Drake.

Current Tim Drake was taught from Lady Shiva and he is at least at top 20 of DC.

Tim also knows the leopard blow.I think only that is enough to win.

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n:I personally think post Battle for the Cowl Nightwing can defeat Bane.I mean this guy goes toe to toe with Deathstroke.I put my money on him.

@k4tzm4n said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

@Stronger said:

@BigCimmerian: @Phaedrusgr:

I think Nightwing and even Tim Drake(versions after the Battle For tthe Cowl story arc.) can take him.

Bane would defeat classic versions though.

You think Tim Drake could beat Bane? LOL

-_-

Unamused face is unamused.

And for the record (Stronger), Bane embarrassed classic Drake. He'd wreck current, too.

@(((Prodigy))): Classic Tim Drake is very different from current Tim Drake.

Current Tim Drake was taught from Lady Shiva and he is at least at top 20 of DC.

Tim also knows the leopard blow.I think only that is enough to win.

Current Tim was humiliated by Catman, and he's nowhere near the top 20 of DC. Batman also knows the leopard blow, doesn't mean he uses it. When has Tim ever used it?

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n:I personally think post Battle for the Cowl Nightwing can defeat Bane.I mean this guy goes toe to toe with Deathstroke.I put my money on him.

@k4tzm4n said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

@Stronger said:

@BigCimmerian: @Phaedrusgr:

I think Nightwing and even Tim Drake(versions after the Battle For tthe Cowl story arc.) can take him.

Bane would defeat classic versions though.

You think Tim Drake could beat Bane? LOL

-_-

Unamused face is unamused.

And for the record (Stronger), Bane embarrassed classic Drake. He'd wreck current, too.

@(((Prodigy))): Classic Tim Drake is very different from current Tim Drake.

Current Tim Drake was taught from Lady Shiva and he is at least at top 20 of DC.

Tim also knows the leopard blow.I think only that is enough to win.

Grayson can't take down Slade. If you're going to use the example in Titans, then I guess let's take into account how Roy had a stalemate with him and Killer Croc could hang with a cosmic level character. Fun book, but it's popcorn entertainment. Nothing more.

Is this what you call humiliation???

I see Blake trying to escape and a holding back Tim Drake trying to follow him.

Not to mention that current Catman is way better than the classic one.

Batman and Tim do not use the Leopard Blow only because their moral code wont allow them to kill.

If Tim wanted to kill ,for example Catman,he would have done it

@Stronger:

Is this what you call humiliation???
I see Blake trying to escape and a holding back Tim Drake trying to follow him.

Catman had no desire to deal with him and left to do his job. There's no evidence Tim held back more than his usual morals apply and furthermore, Catman landed all the hits. It's a bad showing for Drake.

Not to mention that current Catman is way better than the classic one.

Not true. Classic Catman had quite a few good back-and-forths with Batman. Morph can drop tons of scans to prove that if asked.

Batman and Tim do not use the Leopard Blow only because their moral code wont allow them to kill.

Then what's the point of bringing it up in a match where morals apply? That's like saying "Cyclops takes off his visor" when we know he's not going to in the match. Follow the rules, sonny!

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger said:

@k4tzm4n:I personally think post Battle for the Cowl Nightwing can defeat Bane.I mean this guy goes toe to toe with Deathstroke.I put my money on him.

@k4tzm4n said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

@Stronger said:

@BigCimmerian: @Phaedrusgr:

I think Nightwing and even Tim Drake(versions after the Battle For tthe Cowl story arc.) can take him.

Bane would defeat classic versions though.

You think Tim Drake could beat Bane? LOL

-_-

Unamused face is unamused.

And for the record (Stronger), Bane embarrassed classic Drake. He'd wreck current, too.

@(((Prodigy))): Classic Tim Drake is very different from current Tim Drake.

Current Tim Drake was taught from Lady Shiva and he is at least at top 20 of DC.

Tim also knows the leopard blow.I think only that is enough to win.

Grayson can't take down Slade. If you're going to use the example in Titans, then I guess let's take into account how Roy had a stalemate with him and Killer Croc could hang with a cosmic level character. Fun book, but it's popcorn entertainment. Nothing more.

I never said Nightwing can beat Deathstroke.I just said that he always gives him good fights.

@Stronger: I'd say "good" is a matter of opinion, seeing as their fights have fluctuated to infinity and beyond. Regardless, it was always obvious who the superior was.

@Stronger: That's false, Tim was not holding back. He stated no such thing and even said earlier on the page that Catman is at the top of the list of people he wouldn't want to fight.

Bane.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger:

Is this what you call humiliation???
I see Blake trying to escape and a holding back Tim Drake trying to follow him.

Catman had no desire to deal with him and left to do his job. There's no evidence Tim held back more than his usual morals apply and furthermore, Catman landed all the hits. It's a bad showing for Drake.

Not to mention that current Catman is way better than the classic one.

Not true. Classic Catman had quite a few good back-and-forths with Batman. Morph can drop tons of scans to prove that if asked.

Batman and Tim do not use the Leopard Blow only because their moral code wont allow them to kill.

Then what's the point of bringing it up in a match where morals apply? That's like saying "Cyclops takes off his visor" when we know he's not going to in the match. Follow the rules, sonny!

1.True,its a bad showing for Drake,but he has proven he is better than this.

Even Spider-man has bad showings with characters way weaker than him.

2.Classic Catman was a minor Batman villain and a D-lister.

3.Ok then

@Stronger:

1) I mean, there's really no redeeming that showing, haha.

2) No denying that. Catman certainly is more popular now, but this was in regards to your comment that he's much better now. I assumed you meant as a combatant, not as a character.

3) Excellent.

@Stronger said:

I think Bane can a younger version of Nightwing,but current Nightwing defeats him.

:O

Never mind. Nightwing stomps his @$$

@cascadeking09 said:

@Stronger: That's false, Tim was not holding back. He stated no such thing and even said earlier on the page that Catman is at the top of the list of people he wouldn't want to fight.

Dude,Tim Drake always holds back.Deadpool during the Civil War stated he wouldnt want to face Captain America.When they battled,Deadpool won.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger: I'd say "good" is a matter of opinion, seeing as their fights have fluctuated to infinity and beyond. Regardless, it was always obvious who the superior was.

Obviously Slade always had the upper hand,but I recall Nightwing giving him a run for his money.

@Erik: You're positively terrible.

Just for the people who are too lazy to look at previous pages, that's a training simulation of Bane who used firearms like an idiot.

@k4tzm4n said:

@Stronger:

1) I mean, there's really no redeeming that showing, haha.

2) No denying that. Catman certainly is more popular now, but this was in regards to your comment that he's much better now. I assumed you meant as a combatant, not as a character.

3) Excellent.

1.Really?Do you read any Tim Drake actually?

2.Of course I meant as a combatant.What else?

3.:)

@k4tzm4n said:

@Erik: You're positively terrible.

You do not understand. He broke Bane's back so hard, Bane's belt even broke..... From the front! The kind of powah one would need for the force to travel through a body and out the front is only in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon type movies.

@Stronger said:

@cascadeking09 said:

@Stronger: That's false, Tim was not holding back. He stated no such thing and even said earlier on the page that Catman is at the top of the list of people he wouldn't want to fight.

Dude,Tim Drake always holds back.Deadpool during the Civil War stated he wouldnt want to face Captain America.When they battled,Deadpool won.

Yeah, I know he holds back but he nearly got killed. I don't think him cutting loose would've changed that. And this is Tim Drake talking about Catman, not Deadpool about Captain America. When Tim and Catman battled, he lost, so it isn't the same.

@Erik said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Erik: You're positively terrible.

You do not understand. He broke Bane's back so hard, Bane's belt even broke..... From the front! The kind of powah one would need for the force to travel through a body and out the front is only in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon type movies.

Pfft, please.

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