#1 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8175 posts) - - Show Bio

No morals

no prep

battle is in gotham city

win by death only

which team wins and why

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#2 Posted by dondave (37972 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter solos

#3 Posted by Wolverine08 (42816 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by Strider92 (16605 posts) - - Show Bio

Minighter kills everyone on his team to stop them getting in his way then proceeded to solo with absolutely no difficulty at all.

#5 Edited by reaverlation (16003 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter takes out both teams including himself

#6 Posted by MonsterStomp (18213 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter judges how pathetic it is that people see him as a common street leveller. Then solos everyone.

#7 Edited by OreoAssassin (5150 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter Solos Like Everyone Said Above^^^^

#8 Edited by Erick_Williams (758 posts) - - Show Bio

Minighter kills everyone on his team to stop them getting in his way then proceeded to solo with absolutely no difficulty at all.

#9 Edited by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter solos everyone on both teams with ease.

#10 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

#11 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8175 posts) - - Show Bio

wow no one is giving it to team 1 at all

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#12 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Midnighter solos

@dondave said:

Midnighter solos

Minighter kills everyone on his team to stop them getting in his way then proceeded to solo with absolutely no difficulty at all.

Midnighter takes out both teams including himself

Midnighter judges how pathetic it is that people see him as a common street leveller. Then solos everyone.

Midnighter Solos Like Everyone Said Above^^^^

@strider92 said:

Minighter kills everyone on his team to stop them getting in his way then proceeded to solo with absolutely no difficulty at all.

Midnighter solos everyone on both teams with ease.

Could someone explain to me exactly why Midnighter is so hardcore? Assuming he has no doors, what is so great about him?

Enhanced strength? Everyone and their mother packs that. Precog? Sure, pretty common also.

What makes him that special?

#13 Edited by MonsterStomp (18213 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by Zjun_ (490 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Midnighter solos

@wolverine08 said:

@dondave said:

Midnighter solos

@strider92 said:

Minighter kills everyone on his team to stop them getting in his way then proceeded to solo with absolutely no difficulty at all.

@reaverlation said:

Midnighter takes out both teams including himself

@monsterstomp said:

Midnighter judges how pathetic it is that people see him as a common street leveller. Then solos everyone.

@oreoassassin said:

Midnighter Solos Like Everyone Said Above^^^^

@erick_williams said:

@strider92 said:

Minighter kills everyone on his team to stop them getting in his way then proceeded to solo with absolutely no difficulty at all.

@thecoolest said:

Midnighter solos everyone on both teams with ease.

Could someone explain to me exactly why Midnighter is so hardcore? Assuming he has no doors, what is so great about him?

Enhanced strength? Everyone and their mother packs that. Precog? Sure, pretty common also.

What makes him that special?

What puts him above Street-Levelers are his ability to find weakness in his enemies, he nearly killed THE MARTIAN MANHUNTER in a single shot, he also held his own against a bloodlusted Apollo, that is durable enough to took blows from an enraged Atrocitus that was doing pretty well against the Martian Manhunter, and his Speed, he dodged a blast from a Red Lantern at point blank rage and nearly killed that same RL. Lucas also has easily outreacted and KO'd Dex Starr (an honor Red Lantern).

#16 Edited by dondave (37972 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecoolest: All of those feats have been retconned, why do you continue to post them?

#17 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Question: Isn't this New-52 Midnighter? From what I gather, he lacks the showings of his Wildstorm counterpart.

#18 Posted by MonsterStomp (18213 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@veshark: Still dropped MMH, I think.

I've seen that feat where he hits J'onn in the nose, but it seems a little iffy. Apparently Apollo punched MMH in the face at full-strength in Stormwatch's first issue, but that did nothing. And MMH didn't get dropped by Midnighter at all. He adjusted to the attack in time to minimize the damage, and then TPed Midnighter.

#20 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Question: Isn't this New-52 Midnighter? From what I gather, he lacks the showings of his Wildstorm counterpart.

I disagree, before Stormwatch 19 (that retconned everything that happened to SW members before the issue), Lucas had killed a Red Lantern and dodged a blast from him at point blank rage, he also outreacted Dex-Starr and Ko'd him, held his own against a bloodlusted Apollo, that is durable and strong enough to take blows an enraged Atrocitus that was doing pretty well against the Martian Manhunter. He fought Zealot and she couldn't land a single hit at him and he dodged a blast from Etrigan at point blank rage when he couldn't rerad the Demon.

And answering @dondave's question, I'm using retconned feats because, otherwise, it would't be possible to determine a winner in Midnighter threads because there have been very few issues with him before the retcon and there has been nothing to suggest that Lucas was depowered after it.

#21 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Question: Isn't this New-52 Midnighter? From what I gather, he lacks the showings of his Wildstorm counterpart.

#22 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Question: Isn't this New-52 Midnighter? From what I gather, he lacks the showings of his Wildstorm counterpart.

I disagree, before Stormwatch 19 (that retconned everything that happened to SW members before the issue), Lucas had killed a Red Lantern and dodged a blast from him at point blank rage, he also outreacted Dex-Starr and Ko'd him, held his own against a bloodlusted Apollo, that is durable and strong enough to take blows an enraged Atrocitus that was doing pretty well against the Martian Manhunter. He fought Zealot and she couldn't land a single hit at him and he dodged a blast from Etrigan at point blank rage when he couldn't rerad the Demon.

And answering @dondave's question, I'm using retconned feats because, otherwise, it would't be possible to determine a winner in Midnighter threads because there have been very few issues with him before the retcon and there has been nothing to suggest that Lucas was depowered after it.

Which is great and all, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Midnighter isn't a capable fighter. What I am saying is that this is the New-52 version, who lacks the showings and skill-level of his Wildstorm counterpart, so I genuinely don't understand why everyone is crowing that 'Midnighter will solo everyone on both teams'.

At best, Midnighter is simply a capable addition to his team here, and even then, that's only if we're taking the retconned feats into account.

#23 Posted by patrat18 (9813 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter judges how pathetic it is that people see him as a common street leveller. Then solos everyone.

#24 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

I genuinely don't understand why everyone is crowing that 'Midnighter will solo everyone on both teams'.

So I will explain why.

On both teams we have:

Bane:

I like him, but Midnighter is superior to him in every possible way. He is just a guy with (maybe) peak human reflexes and barely has superhuman strenght, Midnighter has nearly killed J'onn with a pressure point and killed a Red Lantern, both of them are waaaaay more durable than bane, Lucas hits him once and he is gone, and 'Nighter is fast enough to dodge attacks from Apollo and Red Lanterns so he wouldn't have any problem tagging Bane.

Nightwing:

He doesn't have any superhuman ability, Lucas has read Zealot who is way above nightwing and she couldn't land a hit on him even though he was holding back, Lucas could Dick him in a single shot since Nightwing has olympic level durability and 'Nighter has broken the nose of Apollo who has Superhuman durability.

Ra's Alghul:

Same reasons above, a guy without superhuman abilities vs a guy that holds his own against superhumans on a regular basis.

Nick Fury:

Most of Nick's feats come from prepare, again, it's another guy who isn't durable enough to take blows from Midnighter and that couldn't hit him, I mean, Lucas dodged a blast from Etrigan (who defeated Apollo) at point blank rage so do you really expect bullets to hit him?

Captain America:

Zealot is easily on pair with Cap and she couldn't tag Lucas, 'Nighter has used pressure points on Apollo and J'onn who are way more durable than Cap so Steve would die after a single hit, and Cap would have to hit Lucas several times considering that Midnighter has taken blows from a Red Lantern and Apollo, who are much stronger than Steve.

#25 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't j'onn fake the whole nerve strike thing from Nighter?

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#26 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecoolest

Okay, there's a lot you're missing here in the individual comparisons, but I'll just break it down very simply:

A few Viners posted that Midnighter could solo everyone on both teams. What that means is that he could defeat everyone on both teams by himself - at the same time. Do you honestly agree with this statement? I think it's just that many were under the incorrect assumption that this was the Wildstorm incarnation of the character, not the New 52 one. I can understand the claim for Wildstorm Midnighter, as he was basically beyond street-leveler and an extremely dangerous combatant.

What I can't understand is how this could possibly be pulled off by New 52 Midnighter, a character not only limited in showings, but of whom many of these feats have apparently been retconned out of? I can tell right you now that Captain America on his own can already give this new Midnighter a decent fight.

#27 Edited by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is it New 52 Midnighter? Why is it about the worst written version of Midnighter that's shown the least ability? Why is it not the most well established version of him if the current one has only been around for a handful of issues and has done nothing impressive? It doesn't seem to fit with every other character in this fight having significant history to draw upon. If it is the New 52 version, it should be clearly stated in the OP because if it's not, people are obviously going to use the versions of the character that statements can actually be made about, and the best way to do that for Midnighter is to use his Wildstorm version.

Moderator
#28 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

Why is it New 52 Midnighter? Why is it about the worst written version of Midnighter that's shown the least ability? Why is it not the most well established version of him if the current one has only been around for a handful of issues and has done nothing impressive? It doesn't seem to fit with every other character in this fight having significant history to draw upon. If it is the New 52 version, it should be clearly stated in the OP because if it's not, people are obviously going to use the versions of the character that statements can actually be made about, and the best way to do that for Midnighter is to use his Wildstorm version.

Is that not the norm of the Battles boards? The board rules state 'Current Mainstream Versions' for every character unless explicitly stated otherwise by the OP. Why would it be any different for Midnighter in this thread? And this rule would certainly extend to every other character in this battle. Similarly, Nightwing and Bane are both in their New-52 incarnations here presumably.

I'm not trying to be pedantic or difficult, but that has pretty much been the standard understanding on these boards ever since the New 52 came around. And should Midnighter be in his Wildstorm incarnation here, this thread should be flagged for a mismatch, if anything.

#29 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't j'onn fake the whole nerve strike thing from Nighter?

In Stormwatch 1, yes, The Martian was faking but in this scan he wasn't:

And answering @veshark's question, yes, I believe that Midnighter could solo everyone on both teams at the same time, I already explained why, Lucas could one-shot everyone here,he is durable enough to take lots of punishment from them and he is fast enough to easily hit everyone on both teams.

#30 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: When the current mainstream version leaves you nothing to talk about for the character, there really isn't much point.

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#31 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot

*shrugs* I didn't make the rules, and it's pretty much the status quo on the boards. To note though, New-52 Midnighter isn't exactly incompetent, he has fairly decent feats (if we accept his pre-Stormwatch 19-retcon ones). And to put this back into perspective, the OP did state that Midnighter was part of a team and fighting another team, not soloing everyone. If you made this into the Wildstorm incarnation, the entire battle would just be a mismatch, so really this isn't that off-base.

@thecoolest

Okay, I don't want to derail the entire thread, but let's try a sample discussion here. Now, presumably we're discussing New 52 Midnighter, and let's assume that all of his feats pre-Stormwatch retcon are valid and acceptable. And let's put him in this same battle, except this time he's only up against a no-morals Captain America (as the OP's conditions state).

Granted, I haven't read Stormwatch before, but I'm looking to learn. Now this is what you had to say regarding Midnighter defeating Cap:

Zealot is easily on pair with Cap and she couldn't tag Lucas, 'Nighter has used pressure points on Apollo and J'onn who are way more durable than Cap so Steve would die after a single hit, and Cap would have to hit Lucas several times considering that Midnighter has taken blows from a Red Lantern and Apollo, who are much stronger than Steve.

What has New 52 Zealot done exactly that puts her on the same footing as Captain America? To my knowledge, she has had like seven issue appearances? To put this into perspective: Captain America - at his best - possesses enough reflex speed to both think and react at bullet-speeds. He has physically outraced bullets at close-range, and reacted to rounds after they've been fired. He has tagged the likes of fellow bullet-timers like Spider-Man, Daredevil, and Black Panther. More to the point, it's not as though Lucas is completely untouchable. He's been tagged before by foes far slower than Cap - including Skallox, Eminence of Blades, and those punks in the Mexico flashback.

So I don't see how Midnighter is significantly faster than Cap. As for the matter of pressure points: to my knowledge, Midnighter has only used them against MMH (I'm not familiar with the Apollo instance). And even then, it technically didn't work, as MMH was simply faking. The point I'm trying to make is that it's not standard behavior for Midnighter to one-shot pressure-point everyone he meets. He only did that in the MMH scenario using stealth and to quickly take MMH out of the equation - look at all his other fights and tell me how often he one-shots his foes. Plus, Cap has shown more than enough proficiency with pressure points - it's not a stretch to suggest that he can see those moves coming.

As for Midnighter's durability, honestly that's pretty mild. Tanking hits from superior opponents is practically the norm for street-level characters. How strong exactly are Skallox and Apollo? Because Cap has taken punches from the likes of Hulk, Namor, and Iron Man - all of whom have plenty of feats attesting to their power levels. And if we factor in the most current version of the character, Cap will have his Marvel NOW armor here, which has enough durability to take an attack from a planet-destroying Aleph.

Consider for a moment also that this is a morals-off Cap, who will not be holding back as per usual. He'll be going all out. A morals-on Captain America was able to KO Namor with a shield throw - someone with far more durability feats to back him up than Midnighter. Cap's chopped off tank turrets and deflected Mjolnir with that shield. You're telling me that a morals-off version of this character doesn't stand a decent chance of hurting Midnighter?

Now, am I necessarily saying that Cap will take a majority against New-52 Midnighter? No. But what I am trying to illustrate is this: if a morals-off Cap alone can already give Midnighter this much trouble, how will Lucas even solo everyone else single-handedly at the same time?

#32 Edited by RogueShadow (10863 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter solos.

#33 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@thecoolest

Okay, I don't want to derail the entire thread, but let's try a sample discussion here. Now, presumably we're discussing New 52 Midnighter, and let's assume that all of his feats pre-Stormwatch retcon are valid and acceptable. And let's put him in this same battle, except this time he's only up against a no-morals Captain America (as the OP's conditions state).

Granted, I haven't read Stormwatch before, but I'm looking to learn. Now this is what you had to say regarding Midnighter defeating Cap:

Zealot is easily on pair with Cap and she couldn't tag Lucas, 'Nighter has used pressure points on Apollo and J'onn who are way more durable than Cap so Steve would die after a single hit, and Cap would have to hit Lucas several times considering that Midnighter has taken blows from a Red Lantern and Apollo, who are much stronger than Steve.

What has New 52 Zealot done exactly that puts her on the same footing as Captain America? To my knowledge, she has had like seven issue appearances? To put this into perspective: Captain America - at his best - possesses enough reflex speed to both think and react at bullet-speeds. He has physically outraced bullets at close-range, and reacted to rounds after they've been fired. He has tagged the likes of fellow bullet-timers like Spider-Man, Daredevil, and Black Panther. More to the point, it's not as though Lucas is completely untouchable. He's been tagged before by foes far slower than Cap - including Skallox, Eminence of Blades, and those punks in the Mexico flashback.

So I don't see how Midnighter is significantly faster than Cap. As for the matter of pressure points: to my knowledge, Midnighter has only used them against MMH (I'm not familiar with the Apollo instance). And even then, it technically didn't work, as MMH was simply faking. The point I'm trying to make is that it's not standard behavior for Midnighter to one-shot pressure-point everyone he meets. He only did that in the MMH scenario using stealth and to quickly take MMH out of the equation - look at all his other fights and tell me how often he one-shots his foes. Plus, Cap has shown more than enough proficiency with pressure points - it's not a stretch to suggest that he can see those moves coming.

As for Midnighter's durability, honestly that's pretty mild. Tanking hits from superior opponents is practically the norm for street-level characters. How strong exactly are Skallox and Apollo? Because Cap has taken punches from the likes of Hulk, Namor, and Iron Man - all of whom have plenty of feats attesting to their power levels. And if we factor in the most current version of the character, Cap will have his Marvel NOW armor here, which has enough durability to take an attack from a planet-destroying Aleph.

Consider for a moment also that this is a morals-off Cap, who will not be holding back as per usual. He'll be going all out. A morals-on Captain America was able to KO Namor with a shield throw - someone with far more durability feats to back him up than Midnighter. Cap's chopped off tank turrets and deflected Mjolnir with that shield. You're telling me that a morals-off version of this character doesn't stand a decent chance of hurting Midnighter?

Now, am I necessarily saying that Cap will take a majority against New-52 Midnighter? No. But what I am trying to illustrate is this: if a morals-off Cap alone can already give Midnighter this much trouble, how will Lucas even solo everyone else single-handedly at the same time?

Wait, did Captain America get a huge power-up recently? If so, I cannot say who would win because I'm not aware about how great the PU was, but even if Cap was so much improved, I still keep my word that Lucas solos eveyone on both teams because I have read a good amount of stuff with NW, Bane and Ra's in it so I can say with confidence that they would all get blitzed and one-shotted before they realize what happened, I have read on Nick as well and just like I said, most of his feats come from prepare and he needed prep to face the likes of Wolverine, who I could easily say been taken down by Midnighter, and like I said, Lucas could kill Nick i a single shot and dodge bullets wouldn't be a problem for someone who dodges blasts from Red Lanterns at point blank rage, so I can say that if 'Nighter beats the current Cap, I'm absolutely sure that he would take seconds to Beat Ra's, Bane and NW and ALMOST sure that he would take seconds to beat NF.

#34 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecoolest Okay...

Cap has always been the same - he has received no power-up. All I mentioned was that his new armor is pretty durable as it tanked an energy blast from an Aleph with no damage (In retrospect, my use of 'planet-destroying' might have been misleading. I meant to say that the Aleph robot is designed to destroy worlds, not that its energy beams are world-destroying).

You're entitled to your opinion sure, but in a debate it's generally accepted that you have to provide proof and arguments for your stance, no? You can say that you've read a great deal of the characters involved, but your point right now just seems to boil down to 'Midnighter can one-shot everyone', which as I've already covered above, is a very flimsy statement. You haven't even countered the points I raised on Captain America alone - so how is Lucas expected to take everyone on?

Beyond the fact that it's not in-character for Midnighter to nerve-strike-one-shot everyone, and that every hero here is morals-off, and that outracing bullets is a significantly faster feat than dodging a Red Lantern blast... I seriously don't see how he's going to defeat everyone in 'seconds'. Look at his fight with Skallox alone, where the Lantern didn't use any of his ring powers. A almost-featless character in regards to HTH and physicals showings. It still took effort on Midnighter's part to win.

At this point, I don't want to derail this thread any further, so I'll just leave it at that. This isn't a Midnighter vs everyone thread after all. I don't think this discussion's really gonna go anywhere else, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

#35 Posted by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are people turning this into a 'derp Midnighter solos everyone!!1! :B' debate instead of debating the actual parameters set by the topic starter, which is a match-up between Bane/Ra's al Ghul/Nightwing and Captain America/Nick Fury/Midnighter?

Unless it is being used as a part of an argument on why Midnighter may have more trouble against the individuals on the other team, why even bother?

#36 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Fine, so since Midnighter and Cap are on the same team, let's just agree that they win and be done with it.

The reason for what I didn't counter your arguments is because when you said Marvel Now armor, I understood that you said that Cap got a new armor, which I can't say how good it is, SO, since I don't know very well about its limits, I can't talk about it.

But if you want, I will make a Captain America vs Midnighter thread and will be glad to post scans of Lucas' feats and to have a better debate with you.

#37 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

. And if we factor in the most current version of the character, Cap will have his Marvel NOW armor here, which has enough durability to take an attack from a planet-destroying Aleph.

When did Aleph ever destroy a planet? They were pretty much fodder and shang chi broke his leg. I don't think Aleph is that powerful at all.

#38 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecoolest If you want to, you're more than welcome to. Though again, I want to stress that my point wasn't so much 'Cap can beat Midnighter' as it was 'If Cap can already give Midnighter so much trouble, how will Mids solo everyone here'?

@jashro44 said:

@veshark said:

. And if we factor in the most current version of the character, Cap will have his Marvel NOW armor here, which has enough durability to take an attack from a planet-destroying Aleph.

When did Aleph ever destroy a planet? They were pretty much fodder and shang chi broke his leg. I don't think Aleph is that powerful at all.

To note: when I said 'planet-destroying', I didn't mean that an Aleph could physically blow a planet up. I guess 'planet-razing' would've been the more appropriate term. It's pretty much established in the first arc as the purpose of an Aleph. The Ex Nihilli creates life, the Abyssi judge if it's worthy, and if not - the Aleph razes the world. Nihilo's Aleph from the first arc is explicitly stated to have razed 'world after world' for hundreds of millions of years.

You mentioned Shang-Chi breaking Aleph's leg, but remember that it reformed almost immediately afterward. It took Captain Universe's cosmic finger thing to permanently put it down. I'm not saying an Aleph is unbeatable, but I certainly wouldn't put it down as fodder (though Infinity seems to have nerfed them somewhat).

#39 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Looks like he mostly destroyed primitive civilizations based on that scan (which is why you see the guys coming at Aleph with knives). I would have to reread the arc to see if Aleph did anything else (all though I don't have much time for that at the moment), all though yea I get what your saying. I think its impressive that Aleph was able to turn that one guy to a skeleton with a blast but honestly aside from that Aleph wasn't to impressive IMO. Sure him reattaching his leg shows he can recover from shang chis hit but thats still not saying much IMO. Shang chi-all though has impressive striking feats-is only human. I think there are a good list of street level characters that could probably defeat Aleph despite him destroying civilizations. Seems like the civilizations problems were mostly that they couldn't hurt aleph and had no way of stopping him.

I will say cap taking an energy beam which vaporized the guy in the top panel is pretty impressive though.

#40 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44

I suppose it's more of a matter of the narration making claims about Aleph's power, and less on-panel showings. I have to say that the Aleph is largely featless, though I do remember it tanking Thor's lightning and generating a force-field. Honestly, I can't say a street-leveler can defeat it for certain; the robot did pretty much thrash Cap in their first encounter. And doesn't Shang-Chi gain superhuman strength by harnessing his chi? Regardless...

...My point wasn't so much about Aleph's power - but more on the level of durability that Cap's armor took. Not even Cap's base durability, but just his new armor, which was able to tank a direct laser beam from the Aleph with no ill-effects. Literally, the armor is entirely unscathed in the next panel.

#41 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@jashro44

I suppose it's more of a matter of the narration making claims about Aleph's power, and less on-panel showings. I have to say that the Aleph is largely featless, though I do remember it tanking Thor's lightning and generating a force-field. Honestly, I can't say a street-leveler can defeat it for certain; the robot did pretty much thrash Cap in their first encounter. And doesn't Shang-Chi gain superhuman strength by harnessing his chi? Regardless...

...My point wasn't so much about Aleph's power - but more on the level of durability that Cap's armor took. Not even Cap's base durability, but just his new armor, which was able to tank a direct laser beam from the Aleph with no ill-effects. Literally, the armor is entirely unscathed in the next panel.

I thought that was Ex Nihilo who generated the force field. He can amp his striking power with chi yea but still...

I know I agree thats impressive. I have just seen a lot of claims Aleph was a planet buster which people use to promote cap and shang chi. I was just saying Aleph isn't that powerful.

#42 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44

The panel's pretty vague, but I think it's more likely to have been the Aleph. Reason being that we only see Ex Nihilo using his eye laser beams, and it makes more sense that a robot designed to raze worlds (and shown to have different armaments) would have a force-field. Still, it's up in the air.

Well again, I wasn't trying to say that Aleph was a planet-buster, but more of a planet-razer. You might say that it isn't really shown to be so powerful, but I don't think the definition is out-of-place - that is the Aleph's purpose, after all. It was built to kill off entire populations of planets, no?

#43 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@jashro44

The panel's pretty vague, but I think it's more likely to have been the Aleph. Reason being that we only see Ex Nihilo using his eye laser beams, and it makes more sense that a robot designed to raze worlds (and shown to have different armaments) would have a force-field. Still, it's up in the air.

Well again, I wasn't trying to say that Aleph was a planet-buster, but more of a planet-razer. You might say that it isn't really shown to be so powerful, but I don't think the definition is out-of-place - that is the Aleph's purpose, after all. It was built to kill off entire populations of planets, no?

I disagree considering Ex nihlo was portrayed to be more powerful (restraining thor with vines, surviving hyperions heat vision, etc) all though admittedly I can't prove it conclusively.

Fair enough all though I think people will misinterpret what is meant by planet razor. So I still feel we should be careful with what we call aleph in the forums.

#44 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@veshark said:

@jashro44

The panel's pretty vague, but I think it's more likely to have been the Aleph. Reason being that we only see Ex Nihilo using his eye laser beams, and it makes more sense that a robot designed to raze worlds (and shown to have different armaments) would have a force-field. Still, it's up in the air.

Well again, I wasn't trying to say that Aleph was a planet-buster, but more of a planet-razer. You might say that it isn't really shown to be so powerful, but I don't think the definition is out-of-place - that is the Aleph's purpose, after all. It was built to kill off entire populations of planets, no?

I disagree considering Ex nihlo was portrayed to be more powerful (restraining thor with vines, surviving hyperions heat vision, etc) all though admittedly I can't prove it conclusively.

Fair enough all though I think people will misinterpret what is meant by planet razor. So I still feel we should be careful with what we call aleph in the forums.

It's a fair point to raise. Duly noted, I'll keep it in mind for future reference.

#45 Posted by thecoolest (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Do you think that CA and Wolverine together could beat the current Mids? If so I will make the thread, I would really like to have a better debate with you.

#46 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Do you think that CA and Wolverine together could beat the current Mids? If so I will make the thread, I would really like to have a better debate with you.

Honest opinion? I doubt New 52 Midnighter would win, but I guess you're welcome to start a thread if you feel you can make a solid argument on Lucas' part.