"i think nightcrawler could pullout a win by the skin of his teeth"
Possibly. His reflexes and agility surpass Black Panther's. And, he could easily use his powers offensively by grappling and teleporting him in a series of rapid jumps. The strain of these "multiple ports" can exhaust foes without superhuman endurance while Nightcrawler remains strong enough to continue fighting.
But, for some reason, I'm thinking BP could pull out a win here... I don't know!?!?!?!
In age of the apocolypse it is said that nightcralwer can remove body parts off his vitim, by temporarily teleporting to another plain of reality. do not ask me how he can sinularly *bamf* one body part, but it is said to be doen on the nightcrawlers forum
"In age of the apocolypse it is said that nightcralwer can remove body parts off his vitim, by temporarily teleporting to another plain of reality. do not ask me how he can sinularly *bamf* one body part, but it is said to be doen on the nightcrawlers forum "
That's in Age of Apocalypse. Different reality. The mainstream (616) Nightcrawler is being debated.
Nightcrawler wins. His agility and martial skill is amazing. His extra limb also helps, its something not everyone may be able to adapt to very easily. Factor in his teleportation and he has this in the bag. He doesnt have to dissoreitn Panther at all; he could just leave him in the dimension he 'ports through. He doesnt even have to get close to the Panther could just drop things from great altitudes.
"Nightcrawler wins. His agility and martial skill is amazing. His extra limb also helps, its something not everyone may be able to adapt to very easily. Factor in his teleportation and he has this in the bag. He doesnt have to dissoreitn Panther at all; he could just leave him in the dimension he 'ports through. He doesnt even have to get close to the Panther could just drop things from great altitudes."
I can agree with everything else, but I don't think he trumps Panther in martial arts.
Didnt say he trumps him in martial skill. Just said it was amazing. Good enough to keep him in an upclose fight. Not that i would see him winning that way against Panther though. I see him fighting with hands and feet up close them wrapping his tail around Panthers ankle or something and 'porting him.
Wolverine has sensed (think he smelled the brimstone) where Nightcrawler would teleport to before. BP could do the same and be ready to stab with his claws when Nightcrawler reappears.
Has Nightcrawler really left people behind when he teleported? Didn't think he was there long enough (or aware enough) to do that.
I think dropping BP from a couple miles up would be a good tactic. If he could do it without getting stabbed or hit with an energy dagger (which would be hard since they'd be close) or without BP holding on, then the fall would kill or incapacitate BP.
The first 'port could be free. If it just happens as they are fighting then Black Panther wont really be able to detect it. Infact after a while if he fills the area with BAMFS he could flood the Panthers senses.
"The first 'port could be free. If it just happens as they are fighting then Black Panther wont really be able to detect it. Infact after a while if he fills the area with BAMFS he could flood the Panthers senses."
Dude i did say COULD not would. Was thinking if they were grappling or in close combat and Nightcrawlers tail managed to make contact. Then he could teleport without much, if anything, Panther could do about it.
I say bp because he is at the peak of human perfection and probalbly has some gadgets since he is a king to anticipate or sense were nightcrawler is going to end up. he may not even need gadgets he could just use his animal senses.
I'm gonna go with Black Panther on this one, they do not know about each others powers (i assume, since the TS didn't state that). So Nightcrawler won't immediately teleport BP in the air since he will try to fight him head on. While Black Panther will probably not see the first attack coming, he will learn about his tactic since he's a pretty smart guy. So Black Panther will anticipate something like a similar attack again, in which case he will be prepared for it.
Although i like Nightcrawler better, i'm gonna go with Black Panther
"I'm gonna go with Black Panther on this one, they do not know about each others powers (i assume, since the TS didn't state that). So Nightcrawler won't immediately teleport BP in the air since he will try to fight him head on. While Black Panther will probably not see the first attack coming, he will learn about his tactic since he's a pretty smart guy. So Black Panther will anticipate something like a similar attack again, in which case he will be prepared for it.
Although i like Nightcrawler better, i'm gonna go with Black Panther"
Um...why wouldn't Nightcrawler and BP know each other's powers? They've met before, worked together before, and BP is married to one of Kurt's closest friends. I'd even assume (I don't remember specifically in the issue) that Nightcrawler was at their wedding.
Since he obviously would know how dangerous the Panther is, I think Kurt would try to defeat him quickly. I've never seen the issue that Buckshot is referring to in terms of Wolverine sensing where Kurt would appear, as the brimstone doesn't appear to precede him. I think the multi-port makes sense as Kurt's MO...and enough ports should be able to either knockout or disorient BP enough for Kurt to pick up the win.
"I'm gonna go with Black Panther on this one, they do not know about each others powers (i assume, since the TS didn't state that). So Nightcrawler won't immediately teleport BP in the air since he will try to fight him head on. While Black Panther will probably not see the first attack coming, he will learn about his tactic since he's a pretty smart guy. So Black Panther will anticipate something like a similar attack again, in which case he will be prepared for it.
Although i like Nightcrawler better, i'm gonna go with Black Panther"
Um...why wouldn't Nightcrawler and BP know each other's powers? They've met before, worked together before, and BP is married to one of Kurt's closest friends. I'd even assume (I don't remember specifically in the issue) that Nightcrawler was at their wedding.
Since he obviously would know how dangerous the Panther is, I think Kurt would try to defeat him quickly. I've never seen the issue that Buckshot is referring to in terms of Wolverine sensing where Kurt would appear, as the brimstone doesn't appear to precede him. I think the multi-port makes sense as Kurt's MO...and enough ports should be able to either knockout or disorient BP enough for Kurt to pick up the win. "
My fault, didn't think that one through haha. Sorry!
I've never seen the issue that Buckshot is referring to in terms of Wolverine sensing where Kurt would appear, as the brimstone doesn't appear to precede him. I think the multi-port makes sense as Kurt's MO...and enough ports should be able to either knockout or disorient BP enough for Kurt to pick up the win. "
Warpath has done it too. Don't know exactly how it works, maybe the portal opens and while Nightcrawler is coming through it someone with super senses can smell the environment of the Brimstone Dimension through the opening Nightcrawler creates. Anyway, even if BP couldn't predict exactly where NC will reappear, he could always just get out of the way as soon as he sees Nighcrawler disappear and then stay on the move. Nightcrawler isn't the only one who can get around quickly. If Black Panther is flipping around randomly then it would be hard for Nightcrawler to know and teleport to where he will be next in order to attack him. On the other hand, Cyclops has said that Nightcrawler teleports in a predictable pattern, and I think BP is smart enough to figure out what that pattern is and set up an attack. As for the muli-port option, I think that's risky for Nightcrawler. If NC is holding BP or close enough that he can maintain physical contact, he's close enough that BP can easily slash or shoot him. And the multiports won't knock him out instantly so during the whole thing he can continue to stab or shoot Nightcrawler.
"Wolverine has sensed (think he smelled the brimstone) where Nightcrawler would teleport to before. BP could do the same and be ready to stab with his claws when Nightcrawler reappears.
Has Nightcrawler really left people behind when he teleported? Didn't think he was there long enough (or aware enough) to do that.
I think dropping BP from a couple miles up would be a good tactic. If he could do it without getting stabbed or hit with an energy dagger (which would be hard since they'd be close) or without BP holding on, then the fall would kill or incapacitate BP. "
Gravity boots? Only boots I know of are the Vibranium soled ones that (among other things) would keep him safe from a very high drop. I think 3 miles up would be too much for them though.
Teleports a helmet...why not a head? If Mr. 'I EAT NUKES' Wolverine can feel the effects what makes the Black Panther immune? Needs only but to touch his opponent. The Quickness
Wall crawling and a 'third leg' [leg] should come in handy The Quickness Can teleport the mass of 30 people and teleport himself out of bondage by chains. Pretty quick Faster than a speeding bullet WHERE THE HELL ARE HIS LEGS? Cant hit what isnt there. Cant gut punch me if my guts in another universe. caption
The tail is effective in combat a new angle for many people who mostly deal with people with 4 limbs Disarmed her very quickly. Agile and great reactions
He can teleport what he wants. He managed to leave behind the glasses that were boring into Ororo's flesh...He could teleport that nice Vibranium suit off of BP. He can teleport the body off a sentinal, why not a pesron? Cant nobody hold him down. That tail is strong.
Nightcrawler has a very good chance here. All he needs to do is make contact, which with his agility and the extra advantage of his dexterous tail is a very likely possibility, then he can teleport Panther a few miles in the sky and let him drop. He could force a grappling situatuion, or if he is caught in a lock, he could teleport into the air and out of it. If he goes down the random 'port attacks route he can lessen the chances of being hit by only appearing partially, if he is attacking from behind then his whole body not being there will mess up BP's attempts to retaliate even if he can smell the sulphur. He can even attack with momentum through the portal [say he drop kicks then ports the drop kick will follow through] and use getting hit as the contact he needs to teleport a person. Multiple 'ports arent going to do much to Nightcrawler but they would surely harm the Black Panther.
" If Mr. 'I EAT NUKES' Wolverine can feel the effects what makes the Black Panther immune?
Black Panther has a resistance to intense odors. There was in issue in the current run that has him running through a sewer in New York with his mask off. Despite his superhuman sense of smell, he was unaffected by the foul odor in the sewer (which would possibly be methane gas and some other things that are in the sewers of NY). Even Black Widow ask him how he was able to resist it. I wish I could tell you what he said, but I'll have to post the scan when I get home. For heroes like Daredevil and Wolverine, they don't have a resistance to intense odors.
I dont get what odours has to do with anything here.....Its not the odour that is affecting Wolverine here [although im sure anyone can get through a sewer without dying unless they encounter a Gator lol]. Its the actual trip, the porting through the other dimension takes a toll on Nightcralers passengers, Nightcrawler has obviously gotten stronger and can port happily for ages and over far distances. In that scan i merely eluded to Wolverines advanced healing usually helping him cope with extremely debilitating force i.e Hulks punches, being burnt, getting run over, energy blasts etc. Yet he is K.O'ed by being teleported by Nightcrawler. So it stands to reason that the Black Panther who has nothing on Wolverine in the healing stakes would be affected too, maybe even more severly.
"I dont get what odours has to do with anything here.....Its not the odour that is affecting Wolverine here [although im sure anyone can get through a sewer without dying unless they encounter a Gator lol]. Its the actual trip, the porting through the other dimension takes a toll on Nightcralers passengers, Nightcrawler has obviously gotten stronger and can port happily for ages and over far distances. In that scan i merely eluded to Wolverines advanced healing usually helping him cope with extremely debilitating force i.e Hulks punches, being burnt, getting run over, energy blasts etc. Yet he is K.O'ed by being teleported by Nightcrawler. So it stands to reason that the Black Panther who has nothing on Wolverine in the healing stakes would be affected too, maybe even more severly."
Nightcrawler has a very good chance here. All he needs to do is make contact, which with his agility and the extra advantage of his dexterous tail is a very likely possibility, then he can teleport Panther a few miles in the sky and let him drop. He could force a grappling situatuion, or if he is caught in a lock, he could teleport into the air and out of it. If he goes down the random 'port attacks route he can lessen the chances of being hit by only appearing partially, if he is attacking from behind then his whole body not being there will mess up BP's attempts to retaliate even if he can smell the sulphur. He can even attack with momentum through the portal [say he drop kicks then ports the drop kick will follow through] and use getting hit as the contact he needs to teleport a person. Multiple 'ports arent going to do much to Nightcrawler but they would surely harm the Black Panther. "
He's agile, but if BP is moving, he can't predict where Panther will end up in order to tag him. On the other hand, it's likely that Panther could predict where Nightcrawler will teleport to thanks to his smell, or by figuring out what pattern he teleports in. Either one of them could win with one hit (NC teleporting BP to the sky like I said or BP putting his claws in NC's head or landing a hit with his daggers), I just think it's more likely that BP is the one to make that hit. They're both agile and fast, but one of them actually has a couple ways of knowing where the other will go, and that's BP.
There's a chance NC might know how BP will move depending on how he takes off, but BP could use his boots to change direction, switching them on full to push off things differently or stay on a surface instead of moving past it, he could have his energy daggers shooting automatically and be spinning them around so if NC teleports into the wrong spot he gets fried, his moves could be traps to get NC to port into the right position for an attack, or he could just be deceptive with how he moves his body, making it look like he'll go to one place when he's really headed somewhere else. That's all if NC sees him, but he probably wouldn't if he's teleporting away as soon as he can.
@Buckshot: Well Nightcrawler could see Panther doing all of this from high above and just wait for him to tire himself out. The Panther wont be able to keep up a strategy of constant movements in the attempt to make his movements unpredictable forever. Dont foget that Nightcrawler is a wall crawler and if there is shadow or darkness can hide pretty well, im sure that by virtue of working with people such as Wolverine and Warpath he knows a thing or two about being downwind and such. He could survey him that way and then figure out how to attack. Nightcrawler seems very good at finding people. He managed to locate Aurora when the X-men and Alpha Flight clashed and she is a super speedster. Most of the time he seems able to pop up in the right place. His porting is quite instantaneous so i doubt BP will get very far or be prepared for anything.
I dont get the energy daggers firing automatically thing. Doesnt he throw them, and usually 2 or 3 at a time, rather than like machine gun fire? And spinning around ? I dont understand this sorry. Can you show it?
Nightcrawler doesnt even have to teleport from the start. I believe him to be significantly fast enough to stay in normal space and get into contact with Black Panther, then teleport off a limb or do the drop thing. He could use his darkness and such as stated before to ambush and force Black Panther into his own tricks and traps.
Additionally having five limbs is a big advantage, so what if BP is blocking his punches and kicks if his tail can get him in contact.
BP can flip and swing through the jungle for hours. I think he can keep moving for a while as well. That kind of movement is easy for him, he won't even be straining himself. If Nightcrawler is hanging around in one place watching BP, Panther could fire off shots and force him to move. He could even start pumping knock out gas to get a reaction out of Nightcrawler. BP is a wallcrawler too (boots plus claws) and while he doesn't have naturally hard-to-see fur, he's incredibly stealthy. If NC can hide, so can he. He has a better chance of finding NC though because of his senses. Being hard to see to normal eyes may not mean much to Panther's and not being seen doesn't mean your breathing or heartbeat can't be heard. NC may know about staying downwind, but is he really looking out for that in the heat of battle? Even if he were doing that, it would only help Panther find him since Panther would realize that NC would be coming from that direction to stay hidden. And smell is just one sense. I don't see why Panther's hearing couldn't be just as useful. The displacement of air when Nightcrawler teleports is what causes the "bamf" noise. The rapidly moving air creates a sound that could warn BP NC is about to appear. His sense of touch might alert him to rushing air if Nightcrawler is coming in close and his heightened proprioceptive system could do the same.
The energy daggers can be done a couple ways. He can launch them from his claws or shoot them from special dagger handles that he carries. Sometimes the way he attacks makes it looks like he's throwing them, but they can just be fired. They are not limited to 2 or 3 shots either. I'm not sure what you're not getting about spinning around. Picture him doing this (->) but with a dagger in each hand and with his arms moving a lot more so instead of launching daggers in one direction, they go in front of him, behind him, above him, to his sides, all over.
OOOOOOOOOH I SEE. Cool. thanks. Just didnt get it at the time.
if Nightcrawler is only partially porting his body he can possibly avoid many of Black Panthers attacks. Also hearing/smelling/feeling a BAMF behind you wont tell you how much of his body he is allowing out of the port and where exactly he is, he could be lying down or just above him and reach down with the tail or have only the body from his shoulders up appear or appear at some other odd angle; its not like the porting is slow, he should be able to bamboozle and get around even the Black Panthers sense and reactions.
If enough of him is getting through that he can attack, then enough is getting through that he can be attacked. If just his hand comes through, his hand can be cut off or hit with an energy dagger. If just an arm and his head comes out it would be enough to expose him to knockout gas if he inhales. See what I’m saying? He may not know exactly where or how much of NC is present (though the smell of the ports gave enough info for Warpath and Wolverine to hit him), but if BP decides he doesn’t want to risk attacking a target he’s not sure about, he can always avoid the porting instead of going after it. He can get away from NC when he senses him and use information about how and where NC reappeared to get a sense of his strategy and attack patterns. He could even use that to set up some kind of trap so he ends up dictating where NC appears in the future. Since BP is a brilliant strategist and tactician and NC isn’t on his level in that area, I think he could do just that. Even if for some reason he couldn’t and he’s just avoiding ports and not manipulating NC’s movement, he still benefits because teleporting still takes it out of NC. It takes a while (or big jumps), but it still takes more out of him than it would out of BP since he’s just flipping.You say Nightcrawler can hide before attacking, but BP can hide too and has a better chance of finding NC because of his senses. NC can teleport around to avoid hits, but BP can flip around for the same effect but has a better chance of knowing where NC will move because of his senses (as others have shown) and intelligence (as Cyclops has shown). I’m not denying that NC could end this with one hit (that was my opinion from the get go) but BP can do the same (claw in the right place or energy dagger set to stun or kill hitting any part of his body) and in my opinion he’s more likely to do so since he has methods of predicting NC’s movements and NC can’t do the same as effectively.
Nightcrawler wins hands down. Take a look at all of his powers. Teleportation, night vision, infrared vision, his tail is a third hand, he can sword fight will all of his hands (including his tail), he's an excellent acrobat, he can climb walls (almost) as good as Spiderman...he could totally kick Black Panther's butt.
@Buckshot: No doubt claws and daggers can take Nightcrawler out. In mosty battles the other guys has something to harm the other guy. Of course Panther has a good chance. I just think Crawlers is better because of the, despite what you say, unpredictable nature of his teleports, he can appear in such abstract ways and in unexpected intervals, that i dont see Panthers flipping or daggers catching him easily at all; and all he needs is contact for a port miles up or a limb to come off.
@Ebony Bishop: Nightcrawler is great. Amazing character in terms of powers and outlook, defo top five X-men.
Gotta give it to Kurt, a few teleports to get T'Challa off guard then just grab him out of a teleport from behind teleport him high into the air and drop him, vibranium woven suit or not, your done after falling hundreds of feet.
"@Buckshot: No doubt claws and daggers can take Nightcrawler out. In mosty battles the other guys has something to harm the other guy. Of course Panther has a good chance. I just think Crawlers is better because of the, despite what you say, unpredictable nature of his teleports, he can appear in such abstract ways and in unexpected intervals, that i dont see Panthers flipping or daggers catching him easily at all; and all he needs is contact for a port miles up or a limb to come off.
Except that it's not unpredictable to someone with superhuman senses or significant intelligence, and BP has both. My points are made though.
"I dont get what odours has to do with anything here.....Its not the odour that is affecting Wolverine here [although im sure anyone can get through a sewer without dying unless they encounter a Gator lol]. Its the actual trip, the porting through the other dimension takes a toll on Nightcralers passengers, Nightcrawler has obviously gotten stronger and can port happily for ages and over far distances. In that scan i merely eluded to Wolverines advanced healing usually helping him cope with extremely debilitating force i.e Hulks punches, being burnt, getting run over, energy blasts etc. Yet he is K.O'ed by being teleported by Nightcrawler. So it stands to reason that the Black Panther who has nothing on Wolverine in the healing stakes would be affected too, maybe even more severly."
But at the time given in the example, I'm not sure if it had been revealed that Wolverine had a healing factor, so if he had one, then he might not have been knocked out.
![Wall crawling and a 'third leg' [leg] should come in handy](https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/8017/435368-uxm_448_16.jpg)
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