@texasdeathmatch: I'm guessing Nightcrawler isn't aloud to teleport inside Doc Ock or some weird crap like that, right?
Anyways, I think team two wins. Bullseye could probably hit Nightcrawler the second he teleports next to him. Also, Ock could probably defeat Bucky, Ock is very underrated.
Bucky outclasses Bullseye and Dr. Octopus can't predict where Nightcrawler is going to teleport...
Nighcrawler at any moment can teleport Bucky in to EMP Dr. Octopus (Dr. Octopus cannot survive an EMP, he has been EMP before and his arms became useless).
IMHO Kurt is the weak link. I'm curious to see how people think Buck vs Bullseye & Buck vs Oc will play out, though.
He is not the weak link. He is an important factor for a surprise attack and to get Bucky in where he wants to. He could even serve as a distraction after he teleports Bucky to a spot Bucky wants to ambush Dr. Octopus and Bullseye.
Bucky EMPs Dr. Octopus, then he beats up Bullseye who didn't have a good showing against Crossbones which Bucky has had numerous victories over.
Doc Ock would be a serious problem even for Nightcrawler and his teleportation. If this were the more aggressive 295 Nightcrawler, I might say he has more of a chance, but one good snatch and toss against a wall in the concert hall or warehouse, and Kurt's KO'd, whereas I don't see any way of Nightcrawler one-shotting Doc Ock, he's just not that strong, his strengths lie in speed and agility, and even Spider-Man's agility haven't stopped him from being caught by the tentacles. On the other hand, in a very good fight, I do see Bucky taking Bullseye, being able to avoid the arrows with his shield, he was also shown to be able to catch arrows while doing acrobatics with the real Hawkeye.
Bucky's also tangled H2H with the likes of Batroc, Crossbones, Wrecker, & Taskmaster. In a very good fight, I could see Bucky Cap coming out on top of a match against Bullseye. Which, then, would leave a fairly fatigued Barnes against Doc Ock, who would have all the advantage of distance, unless Bucky managed to use his Luger sidearm to get off a good shot against Doc. I'm not quite sure if Doc Ock wears armor like they used to portray him, but if Bucky managed to get off a few good shots, he could potentially put down Doc Ock, while avoiding the tentacles with the shield, otherwise, once Doc Ock would get his tentacles on Bucky, the match would be done, IMO, as Bucky would be at his mercy, unless he managed to ricochet the shield off the walls of the concert hall or the shelves of the warehouse. I see it ending when it comes to Bucky Cap against Doc Ock, as long as Ock isn't wearing any kind of protective armor, because Bucky is incredibly accurate with his Luger, and would most likely manage to get off a few precise shots before Ock smacked the gun away with a tentacle. With Bullseye and Nightcrawler down, I give these matches a 50/50, as a huge Barnes fan, myself, I don't know what equipment Doc Ock has besides his tentacles, which, I feel would be kind of important against a guy that uses his luger almost as much as the shield, if not more.
@SlimJ87D: The match with prep (and therefore the potential to use your teamwork scenario) doesn't have ample cover, therefore an ambush is unlikely, especially against a man who has the reflexes to deflect bullets and the other to tag spider-Man. I'm a fan of Kurt, but his overall showings leave a lot to be desired, imho.
@progenitor: Nice argument, just scanned through it real fast, and don't forget that Dr. Oc got EMP'd once causing his arms to break. Who has a EMP installed into a bionic arm in this battle? That's right.
If you throw the EMP into your argument, I give it to team 1, 7/10 because Kurt teleporting Bucky in.
@progenitor: Nice argument, just scanned through it real fast, and don't forget that Dr. Oc got EMP'd once causing his arms to break. Who has a EMP installed into a bionic arm in this battle? That's right.
If i'd known that about the EMP, i'd of added it, Lol. Thank you.
@PikminMania: Lester undeniably has the reflexes to react to Kurt after a short amount of time.
BINGO.
@progenitor said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@progenitor: Nice argument, just scanned through it real fast, and don't forget that Dr. Oc got EMP'd once causing his arms to break. Who has a EMP installed into a bionic arm in this battle? That's right.
If i'd known that about the EMP, i'd of added it, Lol. Thank you.
That sounds incredibly PIS considering that Spider-man couldn't break his arms.
@SlimJ87D: The match with prep (and therefore the potential to use your teamwork scenario) doesn't have ample cover, therefore an ambush is unlikely, especially against a man who has the reflexes to deflect bullets and the other to tag spider-Man. I'm a fan of Kurt, but his overall showings leave a lot to be desired, imho.
Bucky is a smart tactician. You saw what he did to Logan in the ink factory. He knows he has an EMP, and he knows Doctor Ocopus has mechanical tentacles. I don't see Bucky being teleported directly in but rather being teleported in the shadows to be stealthy with his Winter Soldier tactics. Then Nightcrawler teleporting somewhere else, even opposite of Bucky and waiting for the right moment to attack.
Sure Round 1 Doc Oc might have more time to prep but I don't think it does him any good due to the EMP being his main weakness otherwise it would go 50/50 to 6/10 Team 2 if it wasn't for the EMP.
Round 2, no Prep and Bucky just one shots Lester because Lester has nothing to hit Bucky with, someone that is great with the shield, deflects blows and bullets with his mechanical arm and catches arrows with it. Doc Oc goes down in their initial attack with an EMP.
@PikminMania: Lester undeniably has the reflexes to react to Kurt after a short amount of time.
BINGO.
@progenitor said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@progenitor: Nice argument, just scanned through it real fast, and don't forget that Dr. Oc got EMP'd once causing his arms to break. Who has a EMP installed into a bionic arm in this battle? That's right.
If i'd known that about the EMP, i'd of added it, Lol. Thank you.
That sounds incredibly PIS considering that Spider-man couldn't break his arms.
An EMP causes a wave that confuses electonical components to send current through their wire harnesses to the point of overloading them frying most wires and all electronic chips.
This is how electronics break in water, the current is no longer regulated and due to the semi-conduction of water which spreads overloads of current shorting out resistors, capacitors, diodes, etc.
You are thinking of breaking the arms with physical force.
@SlimJ87D: My remark said nothing about intellect, merely the likelihood of successfully pulling off that tactic in the prep scenario provided (lack of cover + reflexes = won't be easy).
As for scenario two, they don't even begin visible and it's a random encounter, so how do these two characters (who to my knowledge, haven't even met) decide to pull off that tactic on the fly, despite not seeing their foes of Kurt knowing Bucky has EMP? It's an unlikely tactic for that situation.
Saying "Bucky just one-shots Lester" is severely underrating Bullseye's capabilities as a combatant. Would he win with this limited gear? Unlikely. Would he give Bucky one hell of a fight? Undoubtedly. It doesn't come down to simply " Crossbones made short work of Lester, and Bucky made short work of Crossbones." Bucky vs Crossbones is laced with factors I have addressed numerous times, and Bullseye has a wealthy resume which shows he's more than capable of holding his own for awhile in this battle. After all, there a reason he has consistently given the likes of Daredevil trouble.
As for Kurt, this wouldn't be the first time Lester has experienced facing a teleporter (Solo).
Keep in mind, I haven't even provided a winner. I merely stated my personal belief that Kurt --overall-- is the weak link in this battle, and I still do.
@SlimJ87D: The match with prep (and therefore the potential to use your teamwork scenario) doesn't have ample cover, therefore an ambush is unlikely, especially against a man who has the reflexes to deflect bullets and the other to tag spider-Man. I'm a fan of Kurt, but his overall showings leave a lot to be desired, imho.
Bucky is a smart tactician. You saw what he did to Logan in the ink factory. He knows he has an EMP, and he knows Doctor Ocopus has mechanical tentacles. I don't see Bucky being teleported directly in but rather being teleported in the shadows to be stealthy with his Winter Soldier tactics. Then Nightcrawler teleporting somewhere else, even opposite of Bucky and waiting for the right moment to attack.
Sure Round 1 Doc Oc might have more time to prep but I don't think it does him any good due to the EMP being his main weakness otherwise it would go 50/50 to 6/10 Team 2 if it wasn't for the EMP.
Round 2, no Prep and Bucky just one shots Lester because Lester has nothing to hit Bucky with, someone that is great with the shield, deflects blows and bullets with his mechanical arm and catches arrows with it. Doc Oc goes down in their initial attack with an EMP.
Bucky one-shots Bullseye? Really? I do believe Bucky would beat Bullseye one-on-one in this situation but that seems ridiculous to me. Bucky is not that FAR above Lester. He tangles with Daredevil and has an adamantium skeleton.
Anyways, how far does this EMP reach and does it emit instantaneously or what? I think that is important since if anyone gets close to Doc then it's basically over for them.
@k4tzm4n: Sorry, I didn't mean to underplay Lester, but he is at a disadvantage here.
1. One shot only because of the Mechanical arm, not due to skill. One hit with that arm which punches through metal walls can really KO a peak human. It's not fair that Bucky has this super mechanical arm against a normal peak human like Lester.
2. Also, I've seen Bucky show some awesome deflections of projectiles and blows with his mechanical arm, that is one of Lester's trumphs is his bow and arrow which Bucky has been shown to catch arrows while performing acrobatics. Give him a gun and that fairs his odds much better, but a bow an arrow is what hurts Bullseye, a man that relies on projectiles to keep skilled opponents at bay against an opponent that catches arrows in mid air upside down. It's unfair for Lester to not get metal cards, small throwing knives for surprise and at least a handgun to possibly ricochet bullets off of objects like Bucky gets to with his Shield.
@SlimJ87D: That's fine. And I certainly agree with you on that one. Lester's gear is greatly restricted, but his talents should prove him to be more than a challenge for Bucky, and, IMHO, he can best Nightcrawler.
1) We agree that the bionic arm holds the potential to one-shot Lester, however, I don't find that to be something that would take place quickly in the match. There's also the need to take into account Lester's adamantium (skull is confirmed as being laced) and his ability to use those arrows as melee weapons and even as projectiles in close quarters. This won't be an easy time for Bucky at all, imho. Meanwhile, as this is taking place, I'd be very hard-pressed to support Kurt over Doc Oc in their battle. Again, supporting my statement that Kurt is indeed the weak link, because, with his morals and standard mindset, I don't believe he'd take a majority against either foe.
2) I have no disagreement that Bucky's reflexes and shield will help him greatly in dealing with Bullseye's arrows at a distance.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
@k4tzm4n: The thing about the word laced can mean that it's there to support. Adamantium causes poisoning hence why Wolverines healing factor is constantly healing itself from teh adamantium in his bones. So therefore I don't think Lester has much adamantium besides enough to possibly reinforce his joints and the thinner area of bones which are known to fracture else wise he would get metal poisoning. So I don't think the lace can survive a punch from Bucky to the gut, chest or head.
Doc Oc does pose the biggest threat which almost evens Lester's lack of equipment.
@SpidermanWins said:
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
How? He only has a bow and arrow which @progenitor: has shown Bucky catching bow and arrows upside down.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Well, a huge asset for Barnes is his P90 Luger, which he uses just as much as his shield, so if Doc Ock focuses too much on his shield, he could find himself getting capped in the knees and parts of the body without vital organs. Bucky is a great shot.
@SlimJ87D: Lester has a few poor showings when it comes to that (one-shotted in prison), but for the most part he's proven to have a respectful amount of pain tolerance and durability. What immediately comes to mind is the brutal punishment he withstands when taking on Daredevil and Elektra in Bendis's run, as well as Daredevil remarking Lester's punches hurt more (in regards to the adamantium lacing) in 'Guardian Devil.' My dispute isn't how many hits he can take from the bionic arm, but instead the fact that I believe it will be a lengthy match between those two (taking into account when it begins at range).
The whole poisoning element was obviously overlooked or it's just disregarded by the fact that the lacing process involved an alleged mystical element and other resources ("Treatment with herbs to insure that your body will not reject the artificial parts---And prayery to his Kami...The god of my household...A warrior god. (holding up a head)...Either you will die or you will recover very rapdily---within a week.")
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Well, a huge asset for Barnes is his P90 Luger, which he uses just as much as his shield, so if Doc Ock focuses too much on his shield, he could find himself getting capped in the knees and parts of the body without vital organs. Bucky is a great shot.
I don't think it's a Luger. I think it's a SHIELD pistol from Nick Fury. Reasons being is that it winded Ares and Mockingbird said it wasn't a normal pistol but had a great amount of kick to it. Either way it is above a normal pistol.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Well, a huge asset for Barnes is his P90 Luger, which he uses just as much as his shield, so if Doc Ock focuses too much on his shield, he could find himself getting capped in the knees and parts of the body without vital organs. Bucky is a great shot.
True, but then wouldn't he not need to focus to much? He may only use one arm for that and cover everything else. Each arm is tremendously powerful, so I doubt one arm of Bucky's will prove much resistance. I see him getting pinned if he gets close, eventually if not immediately.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Well, a huge asset for Barnes is his P90 Luger, which he uses just as much as his shield, so if Doc Ock focuses too much on his shield, he could find himself getting capped in the knees and parts of the body without vital organs. Bucky is a great shot.
True, but then wouldn't he not need to focus to much? He may only use one arm for that and cover everything else. Each arm is tremendously powerful, so I doubt one arm of Bucky's will prove much resistance. I see him getting pinned if he gets close, eventually if not immediately.
Bucky has decades of combat experience over Doc Ock, despite how smart he is, I could see Bucky using the Warehouse to his advantage, using cover to ricochet his shield to distract Doc Ock, meanwhile being in a position to cap him with the sidearm he carries. Not to mention, Bucky Cap's suit seems to be shock absorbent, as he's taken falls from 2-3 story heights, so even if Doc Ock swatted him with an arm, I think Barnes would still be in the game, here's an example of him using the sidearm while falling to nail Crossbones as he's peeking out a window.
Also, as @SlimJ87D has pointed out, Barnes has the use of his EMP from the technoprosthetic arm, which also releases electric shocks similar to that of a high-powered taser. Seeing as Doc Ock is using the tech of his arms, I think it would be common sense for Barnes to create a stratagem to attempt to use the EMP while allowing Doc Ock to grab him and get him up close, once then, releasing the EMP to make Doc Ock's arms virtually useless, allowing Barnes to one-shot Doc Ock, or use the built-in electric shock to incapacitate him, either or. Above, I here's an example of him attempting to use the EMP against Iron Man.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Well, a huge asset for Barnes is his P90 Luger, which he uses just as much as his shield, so if Doc Ock focuses too much on his shield, he could find himself getting capped in the knees and parts of the body without vital organs. Bucky is a great shot.
I don't think it's a Luger. I think it's a SHIELD pistol from Nick Fury. Reasons being is that it winded Ares and Mockingbird said it wasn't a normal pistol but had a great amount of kick to it. Either way it is above a normal pistol.
Ahhh, okay, thank you for correcting me, all the resources i've read say it's a P90 Luger (most likely to the resemblance), but it makes more sense for it to be a modified model of a sidearm, since it has more kick than a normal pistol, I mean, the thing floored Ares for a few seconds.
Wait never mind, read op and Bullseye is a huge asset. Team 2 definetly
As good as Bullseye is, he's during his Hawkeye stage, and although I have no doubt he would push Bucky to his limits, Bucky could eventually take Lester. It's Bucky vs. Doc Ock that's in question here, IMO.
But would Bullseye take out Nightcrawler first? Then Bucky could find himself quickly double teamed. EDIT: Not sure if that would happen though considering he only has a bow.
As far as Bucky vs. Doc Ock.... Bucky may find his shield being ripped away by those metal claws if he doesn't play it cautiously.
Well, a huge asset for Barnes is his P90 Luger, which he uses just as much as his shield, so if Doc Ock focuses too much on his shield, he could find himself getting capped in the knees and parts of the body without vital organs. Bucky is a great shot.
True, but then wouldn't he not need to focus to much? He may only use one arm for that and cover everything else. Each arm is tremendously powerful, so I doubt one arm of Bucky's will prove much resistance. I see him getting pinned if he gets close, eventually if not immediately.
Bucky has decades of combat experience over Doc Ock, despite how smart he is, I could see Bucky using the Warehouse to his advantage, using cover to ricochet his shield to distract Doc Ock, meanwhile being in a position to cap him with the sidearm he carries. Not to mention, Bucky Cap's suit seems to be shock absorbent, as he's taken falls from 2-3 story heights, so even if Doc Ock swatted him with an arm, I think Barnes would still be in the game, here's an example of him using the sidearm while falling to nail Crossbones as he's peeking out a window.
Also, as @SlimJ87D has pointed out, Barnes has the use of his EMP from the technoprosthetic arm, which also releases electric shocks similar to that of a high-powered taser. Seeing as Doc Ock is using the tech of his arms, I think it would be common sense for Barnes to create a stratagem to attempt to use the EMP while allowing Doc Ock to grab him and get him up close, once then, releasing the EMP to make Doc Ock's arms virtually useless, allowing Barnes to one-shot Doc Ock, or use the built-in electric shock to incapacitate him, either or. Above, I provided an example of him attempting to use the EMP against Iron Man.
Well in that case the EMP may give him the win as I could totally see him doing that. But where would the other two be?
@SpidermanWins: That's another thing. Bucky and Kurt are great team players and work well with others. Kurt always working with the X-Men and Bucky being on the Invaders, Avengers, Cap's sidekick and Falcon and Black Widow being his partners. They are willing to co-operate while Lester and Doc Oc have poor team work and have yet to show many team organized plans that are fail proof.
Where will Kurt be? With Bucky. What's to stop Kurt from teleporting behind Lester and then teleporting Lester with his back turned to Bucky? Kurt might not be a big offensive factor but he is a great defensive factor for Bucky giving Bucky near instantaneous movement.
@SpidermanWins: Well, since this is 616 Kurt, he definitely has morals, so in my opinion, he would go after Doc Ock, as he would be the bigger threat than Lester (at least from first impression), and although i'm sure Wagner could tag Doc Ock a few times, I see Doc Ock catching Wagner and tossing him against the wall of the theater, or the shelves of the warehouse, KO'ing him. As for Bullseye, he would give Bucky one hell of a fight, even with his arrows, but as I showed a page or two back, Bucky has the agility to catch arrows mid-air. H2H would be fairly brutal between the 2, but Bucky has the advantage of his technoprosthetic arm with the electric shock, so eventually, I see Barnes taking down Lester in a hard fight, leaving Barnes and Doc Ock, where in each scenario, Barnes would have to use his training as a scout to avoid the mechanical arms, and eventually use the EMP to disable Doc Ock, and one-shot him. It would be a very, very hard and brutal fight, but team 1 could take the majority in this.
@SpidermanWins: Well, since this is 616 Kurt, he definitely has morals, so in my opinion, he would go after Doc Ock, as he would be the bigger threat than Lester (at least from first impression), and although i'm sure Wagner could tag Doc Ock a few times, I see Doc Ock catching Wagner and tossing him against the wall of the theater, or the shelves of the warehouse, KO'ing him. As for Bullseye, he would give Bucky one hell of a fight, even with his arrows, but as I showed a page or two back, Bucky has the agility to catch arrows mid-air. H2H would be fairly brutal between the 2, but Bucky has the advantage of his technoprosthetic arm with the electric shock, so eventually, I see Barnes taking down Lester in a hard fight, leaving Barnes and Doc Ock, where in each scenario, Barnes would have to use his training as a scout to avoid the mechanical arms, and eventually use the EMP to disable Doc Ock, and one-shot him. It would be a very, very hard and brutal fight, but team 1 could take the majority in this.
@SpidermanWins: Well, since this is 616 Kurt, he definitely has morals, so in my opinion, he would go after Doc Ock, as he would be the bigger threat than Lester (at least from first impression), and although i'm sure Wagner could tag Doc Ock a few times, I see Doc Ock catching Wagner and tossing him against the wall of the theater, or the shelves of the warehouse, KO'ing him. As for Bullseye, he would give Bucky one hell of a fight, even with his arrows, but as I showed a page or two back, Bucky has the agility to catch arrows mid-air. H2H would be fairly brutal between the 2, but Bucky has the advantage of his technoprosthetic arm with the electric shock, so eventually, I see Barnes taking down Lester in a hard fight, leaving Barnes and Doc Ock, where in each scenario, Barnes would have to use his training as a scout to avoid the mechanical arms, and eventually use the EMP to disable Doc Ock, and one-shot him. It would be a very, very hard and brutal fight, but team 1 could take the majority in this.
1) I'm happy you're a fan of Kurt and all, but with morals on he isn't soloing anything here.
2) Cool, but being skilled with that rapier isn't something that will save him from being outclassed here (especially when taking into account his morals as well). Lester is not only more skilled, but has better reflexes.
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