nickzambuto & Final Arrow VS progenitor & jeanroygrant

For Sherlock's Hunger Games Tourney (he told me to make the thread).

District 4:Progenitor/Jeanroygrant

Albert Wesker:Samurai Edge. S&W Magnum. 3 Flash grenades.Sunglasses

Steve Rodgers Shield Sawed Off Shot Gun 3 Flash Grenades

VS

District 7:Nickzambuto/Final Arrow

Drizzt Do'urde:Iceingdeath;Twinkle;Mithral Chain;Spider Silk Shirt;Bracers of Blinding Strike;

Naked Snake:Backpack, Mk. II Tranquilizer gun, M1911A1 Combat Pistol, CQC Knife, Patriot, Woodland, Treebark, and Desert Tiger Camoflage Uniforms Face Paint Kit.

Go.

I'm out of town currently, but i'll be back on Tuesday, which is probably when i'll post something up.

@progenitor said:

I'm out of town currently, but i'll be back on Tuesday, which is probably when i'll post something up.

Then I guess jean is on his own, as it won't even take me 7 minutes to win this ;)

@nickzambuto said:

@progenitor said:

I'm out of town currently, but i'll be back on Tuesday, which is probably when i'll post something up.

Then I guess jean is on his own, as it won't even take me 7 minutes to win this ;)

Oh, trust me, when I get back, you're going to get spanked worse than Raikov at the hands of Volgin.

Arrow solos.
BB

@Billy Batson said:

Arrow solos.
BB

You're not allowed to interfere under the rules of the tournament, but as long as you side with us I won't tell.

@Billy Batson said:

Arrow solos.
BB

QFT

Drizzt should have this in the bag, along with snake. Will wait for Pro.

This will be interesting, conidering @Sherlock said we don't carry our standard said gear until after the first match. In which case, I think we have the upper hand.

@progenitor said:

This will be interesting, conidering @Sherlock said we don't carry our standard said gear until after the first match. In which case, I think we have the upper hand.

Seeing as this takes place in the jungle, I assume the sun will be out.

Without his sunglasses Wesker will surely be blinded, making him completely helpless to Snake's badass ray.

/thread

All right, well, i'm probably ready as ever to begin this.

Either of team 1 could solo

@Dex_Starr said:

Either of team 1 could solo

Steve Rogers could Solo Naked Snake and Drizzt!!!! How? Have you read anything of Drizzts?

@Dex_Starr said:

Either of team 1 could solo

@Final Arrow said:

@Dex_Starr said:

Either of team 1 could solo

Steve Rogers could Solo Naked Snake and Drizzt!!!! How? Have you read anything of Drizzts?

It's essentially 1 v 1 anyway since Naked Snake is practically useless in this fight.

@Dex_Starr: Still even one on one I don't see Steve walking this against Drizzt it could easily go each way between those two.

@GhostRider29: Again i say how! Against Drizzts.... Just don't see Steve Soloing...

@Final Arrow:Ok, I retract my comment of Steve soloing but team 1 should win regardless

Guys, we're having a debate tournament here. If you guys can please wait to leave your comments and vote after the debates are done and voting and comments are open. Thank you.

@progenitor: Which version of Wesker you going for?

Thought the combatants start off unarmed?

@Final Arrow said:

@progenitor: Which version of Wesker you going for?

There are no versions of Wesker, each of his appearances post Resident Evil 1 had the same abilities.

@BringnIt said:

Thought the combatants start off unarmed?

They do. No sunglasses for Wesker=Instant depowerization.

But seriously, I'll have my argument up... ehh, tomorrow.

But people please (and I'm speaking to you dex_starr) this is for a tournament, stop posting.

@nickzambuto:

I'll stay out of it but one thing.

@nickzambuto said:

@Final Arrow said:

@progenitor: Which version of Wesker you going for?

There are no versions of Wesker, each of his appearances post Resident Evil 1 had the same abilities.

Technically that would be a different version of Wesker ei RE1 Wesker.

@Final Arrow said:

@progenitor: Which version of Wesker you going for?

Wesker post Birkin serum.

@Dex_Starr said:

@nickzambuto:

I'll stay out of it but one thing.

@nickzambuto said:

@Final Arrow said:

@progenitor: Which version of Wesker you going for?

There are no versions of Wesker, each of his appearances post Resident Evil 1 had the same abilities.

Technically that would be a different version of Wesker ei RE1 Wesker.

That's more of an appearance, a different version would be like Wesker in the movie. RE1 Wes was the same dude as in the other games, hence being the same version.

@nickzambuto: nope wesker at the end of res 5 was different from the start of res 5 wesker in res 1 was very different from wesker in res 5....due too the seruim.this makes a huge difference in who we are fighting

I'm not using uroboros Wesker (powerful, yet more vulnerable due to the gaping hole, or, the chink in his armor), nor am I using captain Wesker (whom killed off the Prototyrant in The Umbrella Chronicles without any powers). I'll be using the Albert Wesker featured after he was mutated & enhanced by William Birkin's serum at the conclusion of the first Resident Evil, to the point right before he decided to infect himself with uroboros at the conclusion of Resident Evil 5. I would consider Wesker more of a threat to the drow Do'Urden than Captain America, seeing as not only is he faster & stronger, but also has a healing factor. While Drizzt is highly formidable with Twinkle, and Icingbreath, his mithral chainmail, and the Bracers of Blinding Strike, I would argue that his Hunter persona would be more effective in this situation, seeing as his lack of natural durability would be called into play, along with the fact that he would be forced to fight without any of his equipment, whereas Albert Wesker is accustomed to fighting with very little equipment, relying moreso on his physical prowess. I definitely wouldn't underestimate Jack (or John, or Naked Snake), however, without his survival & combat gear, it's painful to point out that he would be the least enhanced of the characters involved in this battle, truly making him an underdog, especially against the likes of Steve Rogers, enhanced with Erskine's serum. In this instance, the opposition is facing 2 highly enhanced combatants with formidable feats even without equipment, whereas one would argue that Jack and Drizzt are more formidable with their standard equipment, lacking in this first battle. It's my birthday, so I don't know how active i'll be today, but i'm definitely looking forward to kicking this off.

@progenitor said:

I'm not using uroboros Wesker (powerful, yet more vulnerable due to the gaping hole, or, the chink in his armor), nor am I using captain Wesker (whom killed off the Prototyrant in The Umbrella Chronicles without any powers). I'll be using the Albert Wesker featured after he was mutated & enhanced by William Birkin's serum at the conclusion of the first Resident Evil, to the point right before he decided to infect himself with uroboros at the conclusion of Resident Evil 5. I would consider Wesker more of a threat to the drow Do'Urden than Captain America, seeing as not only is he faster & stronger, but also has a healing factor. While Drizzt is highly formidable with Twinkle, and Icingbreath, his mithral chainmail, and the Bracers of Blinding Strike, I would argue that his Hunter persona would be more effective in this situation, seeing as his lack of natural durability would be called into play, along with the fact that he would be forced to fight without any of his equipment, whereas Albert Wesker is accustomed to fighting with very little equipment, relying moreso on his physical prowess. I definitely wouldn't underestimate Jack (or John, or Naked Snake), however, without his survival & combat gear, it's painful to point out that he would be the least enhanced of the characters involved in this battle, truly making him an underdog, especially against the likes of Steve Rogers, enhanced with Erskine's serum. In this instance, the opposition is facing 2 highly enhanced combatants with formidable feats even without equipment, whereas one would argue that Jack and Drizzt are more formidable with their standard equipment, lacking in this first battle. It's my birthday, so I don't know how active i'll be today, but i'm definitely looking forward to kicking this off.

Happy birthday Progs

Cheers bro.

@nickthedevil: Thank you, bro, much obliged! Love the cake, too, lol.

@Final Arrow: Lol I was just kidding. :)

bump.

Ok, I guess I'll begin.

WIthout his gear, Snake is indeed crippled quite a bit, but there is no doubting that he could still hold either of his opponents long enough for Drizzt to deal with the other, and dare I say it, even win himself.

There is no doubting that both opponents are stronger then Snake. But this is where the signature Snake resilience comes in.

All four Snake's have shown inhuman levels of durability, Naked included.

The max height a human can fall into water from without breaking bones is 90 feet. Twice now Snake has fell from hundreds of feet. First during his fight with The Boss. She threw him over the side of the rope bridge, and he fell 200+ feet, suffering only a few lacerations.

Later on, he again fell from a great height into water, this time THREE hundred feet at least. After being tortured by Volgin, and out running the Ocelot Unit through the sewers, he dived down a 300 foot water fall landing in a stream. Think that even tired him out any? Nope, he was still fine enough to trott down the stream, through the forest, and find EVA in a cave.

Naked Snake free falls from hundreds of feet and takes no damage, Captain America will be hard pressed to keep him down.

Another showing of his durability: getting wailed on by Volgin for a solid 3 minutes before passing out, then getting electroshock tortured for a bit, and finally having his eye shot out. Does he even care? Nope.

Volgin was strong enough to punch right through the Shagohad's armor; something not even an RPG could "put a dent in", as Snake himself claimed.

You think Volgin was holding back on Snake during the torture? I doubt he gained his reputation of being a sadistic monster by being easy on people. Colonel Volgin has a reputation of killing the people he's trying to interrigate before they can even give up any information. Couple that with the fact that at this point, Snake had killed every Cobra Member, and also Major Raikov ("I'll make you pay for hurting Ivan!" -Volgin) and the General has no reason to not go full force.

So, to recap: RPGs fail to scratch Shagohad, Volgin punched holes in it. Volgin's body carries and electric charge of 10 million volts. And Volgin is a major sadist.

This is the man who tortured Snake. But, by the end of it the soldier was still strong enough to escape a jail cell, outrun the Ocelot Unit through the sewers, survive a 300 foot fall into a lake, run around a forest, and find EVA in a cave. After a quick nap he was back at 100% to sneak through Grozny Grad, beat Volgin, kill a few hundred soldiers while riding with EVA on her motorcycle, destroy the Shagohad, kill more soldiers, tank crashing into a tree after the bike crashed, kill even more soldiers, kill The Boss, fight Ocelot H2H, and finally satisfy EVA's more primal urges, if you get my meaning.

This guy is inexhaustible. He can keep going forever. There's a reason he's referred to as "The greatest soldier of the 20th century".

I'll stop here for now, let you guys get a word in, but be prepared as I have a lot more to say.

Although Jack is considered one of the greatest mercenaries of his time, he has been defeated with lack of equipment before by an adversary more skilled in H2H than he. While defeating Volgin is an impressive feat, Volgin was not only shown to punch through the Shagohod's outer shell, but also was able to punch through a wall of pure rock with just his fist and the combustion of bullets between his fingers, used as makeshift knuckle dusters. I wouldn't be quick to call it PIS, but considering the circumstances of what Volgin was capable of doing without holding back his strength, had he truly not held back torturing Snake and beating on him, he should have been able to beat Snake to death, or even one-shot him. I believe Volgin did, in fact, hold back, because of the fact that Volgin is an infamous sadist, he would have wanted Snake to feel agony and pain due to what Snake did to Raikov, rather than simply bludgeon him to death. Nevertheless, Snake did, thanks to certain equipment, defeat and kill Volgin, however, Snake had consistently lost to the one person who was more skilled than he in H2H; The Boss. Twice, The Boss had Snake in a position where she could have killed him, and I believe that Captain America is far more skilled than The Boss, in terms of physical stats and skill sets. Captain America once said that he was adept at every form of H2H known, and has far more impressive feats than The Boss or Jack, having taken a beating from the likes of Namor, who is far stronger than Volgin, and refused to give up. Cap has also defeated the likes of Shang-Chi in a sparring match, US Agent, Beast, and other fellow enhanced beings. Jack may be known as one of the greatest soldiers of his time, but the same could also be said of Cap, who is enhanced all around the board, along with having his own set of skills that outclass Jack.

While i'm absolutely sure that Snake wouldn't go down without a hell of a fight, without his standard gear and weapons, he simply doesn't have what it takes to put down Captain America, who's shown the durability to leap out of planes and land on his feet without a parachute, take a beating from the likes of Namor, shown the strength to hurl a piece of debris roughly his own size at a sniper's perch and take it out. He's also shown the speed to be a bullet timer, all due in part to Erskine's serum. Unfortunately for Naked Snake, the most he could hope to do in this case would be to hope to blend with the environment (although he lacks his camo gear), and catch Rogers off guard, which I don't see happening, considering Cap has decades of experience on the battlefield, I don't think it would be easy to catch the Avenger off-guard. In my opinion, Jack would only last so long before this would turn into a 2-on-1 situation with both Albert Wesker and Captain America going against the drow, Drizzt, and without his gear or equipment, I doubt that Drizzt would have what it takes to put down either combatant.

bump.

Isn't Wesker your man? Either way I'm not done yet, and neither will Snake be.

PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity, a character doing something they normally couldn't/wouldn't for the sake of the plot.

Naked Snake taking a beating from Volgin, is not PIS because, normally, he could and would.

Naked Snake's inhuman durability is completely consistent throughout the MGS series. Throughout the series, he

Utilizes a high speed drone while wearing only his field uniform, whereas the MiG pilots chasing him had to wear pressurized suits to survive in their aircraft;

Endures a battle against The Fury while the area they were in burned from the flames of the latter's rocket fuel-laced flamethrower;

Endures electrical torture by Colonel Volgin from what was implied to be at a voltage of around ten million volts

Survives the ICBMG's missile launch despite standing close to ground zero of the ignition blast

When Python's suit starts leaking liquid nitrogen, he just puts his hands right over that b*tch and stops it, for awhile at least. LIQUID. NITROGEN. Let's see Cap touch that stuff and not instantly freeze... again.

And most notably, endures the effects of FOXDIE for approximately 15 minutes, before finally passing away. It took Anderson and Baker seconds to die.

His durability is consistent, he has always been capable of tanking these things no normal human could. Therefore it is not PIS, and he will continue to endure it in his fight with Mr. Rogers.

Another thing, Snake is far stronger then he gets credit for. Single-handedly, he lifted a garage door to allow himself entry to Peace Walker's hangar with his own bare hands, twice. He also physically overpowered The Boss during their Shagohad Hangar fight. When he thrusted his knife at her, she caught his arm with both hands. He then proceeded to drive her to her knees just by pushing.

Keep in mind that The Boss was strong enough to carry a Davy Crocket Launcher, which weighed 630 pounds, in ONE hand (the other was carrying the missile itself, adding a few more hundred pounds to her haul).

She didn't seem to be exerting any effort when she brought these things to Volgin. That's just ARM strength of over 600 pounds, Snake overpowered not only those but her legs to, when he drove her to her knees.

Another thing: Snake is just as if not faster then Cap. Let's bring Wesker into this too. What is Wesker's greatest ability? His speed right? Well, what if I told you Big Boss had already beaten someone, not only as fast, but even faster then Wesker?

In Portable Ops, Snake beats Null twice. Null, artifically enhanced to be "the perfect soldier". He cuts bullets out of the air with his sword; all Wesker does is dodge them.

Deflecting bullets>Dodging. If Snake beat him, I see no reason why he can't also beat Wesker. What speed feat does Cap have that puts him up there?

Finally, we have the skill factor. Simply put, Naked Snake is known for his CQC. Even Python says exactly that. The fact that he beat someone faster then Wesker H2H is a testimant to his skill.

Naked Snake is always getting surrounded by trained military men wielding Assault Rifles. In both MGS3 and Peace Walker, he gets surrounded, and it seems all hope is lost, until he decides to run around the room, strategically disarming opponents, using human shields, throwing bad guys at their own comrads, and pretty soon 12 guys are KO'd with AKs lying next to their bodies.

And of course, we can't forget this fact: Captain America was trained to fight, Naked Snake was trained to kill. Punches go and go but if given the chance Snake will just snap Steve's neck.

@Sherlock: Sorry I don't post on the weekend.

@progenitor: Bold statement at the end, even without his gear Drizzt is a very formiable foe! He is not only a weapons master, after training with numerous different weapons, but is also a tatical fighter. He can easily vanish from sight with a mere shadows. He also still has his magic which is not part of his standard gear (it's part of him), he could easily use the shadow orbs to make his escape. Just like Cap he has shown great skill in fight much stronger oppents, along with much much more powerful ones. Not to mentions the time when he was deep behind enemy lines, surrounded by patrols and managed to not only go undetected but was able to attack several camps, slaughtering all that lay in those camps and vanish again.

As a ranger the settings alone give him an edge, he is able to talk with animals on a small level which can provide him with the were abouts of his foes and has the knowledge to set traps and make weapons. Drizzts with the help of one other ranger held off and forced an army of Orcs to retreat (he had his panther, which was busy fighting a wolf god) and has incredible speed ontop of his skill. Drizzt more then has what it takes to take down one foe if not both over time, he is not going to run head first into the battle he will use his surroundings to his advantage.

I say he is more then able to face either of them.

@Final Arrow said:

I say he is more then able to face either of them.

As is Snake.

Again, I must stress the fact that Big Boss already has beaten someone who can deflect bullets with his sword; that's a far greater speed feat then anything Wesker has done, so if Snake can beat him I don't see what other advantage Wesker could possibly hold.

Frank Jaeger was cutting bullets in half long before his Cyborg Ninja days, he'd been doing it while he was still human too, and Big Boss beat him.

@nickzambuto: Also the thing about both the characters we are using is that they do not simple go straight fot the fight, I personally see them using their strengths and using the surrounding areas, Snake has a massive standing when it comes to camo as well as Drizzts and both are not above using guerilla tatics to turn the battle in their favour.

@progenitor: Happy belated Birthday man.

Fair enough, however, guerrilla warfare against either of our team's combatants is easier said than done, as Captain America himself is well-versed in battlefield etiquette, due to his decades of experience on the battlefield from WWII-onward. Albert Wesker, himself, was head of the security division at Umbrella after researching as a eugenicist and virologist, as well as having been given training during his time in the special forces of S.T.A.R.S., both of which a testament to his own skill-set to bring to the table against the likes of Jack, who's skills were funded and honed by the government. Drizzt would be the wild card in this match-up, considering his relationship with nature--however, being a drow elf, without his equipment, wouldn't the light of day cause irritation and/or annoyance against the dark elf? Unless he uses the shadows of the trees and foliage, I imagine it would be hard for Drizzt to find a suitable perch to hide in waiting. Similarly, without Jack's camouflage gear, he would stick out like a sore thumb under the circumstances of these conditions, which is exactly why he was trained in the art of espionage and usage of camouflage, a crucial element in his ability to remain unseen and hidden during his encounters against guards and sentries.

"Never allow the enemy to bait you into entering a trap." While the drow elf could most likely come up with some interesting tactics by usage of the natural elements of the environment, both he and Jack would still be going up against 2 combatants trained in the militaristic special forces. As for Jack and Null, the comparison between Jaeger and Wesker is like comparing apples and oranges, considering one has a penchant for blades, while the other for guns. Nevertheless, unlike Null, Wesker's speed is great enough that when he uses aversion against bullets, it appears moreso as if he is teleporting than actually moving. Point being, Naked Snake was able to defeat Viper/Gene due to the fact that when Gene utilized his Zero Shift ability, it physically tired him, that wouldn't be the case with Wesker, as Wesker hasn't shown to tire out easily at all while using his speed, strength, and durability. If, and when, Wesker were able to get his hands upon Jack, it would basically be the same as when Vamp had a hold of Plissken in Metal Gear Solid 2, he would be helpless against an enemy that could one-shot him, or deliver a series of shots that could wreck him before Snake could even react. As for the skills of Jack, while his CQC is indeed impressive, it still is outclassed by Rogers knowledge of H2H and his physical enhancements across the board.

As for the argument of Drizzt and Albert Wesker, one having gained his abilities through natural causes, while the latter is a self-made mutant. Aside from the drow's skills shown with his equipment and gear, has Drizzt shown any impressive and/or notable feats just going H2H, or would he be relying on the forest for weaponry and traps? Because once Wesker spots the elf, a few speedster bursts would quickly close the gap between the two, and I believe Wesker's strength is greater than that of Drizzt's--could be mistaken if proof were to be shown, but that's the impression i'm getting here, as Wesker has shown the ability to one-shot a large hunter with a single backwards roundhouse kick. I realize the Bracers of Blinding Strike enhance Drizzt's speed, but without, he would have to rely on his natural speed as an elf, which, by the standards of a normal man, would be considered enhanced, I imagine, however, against the likes of Wesker and Captain America, both who have shown the capability of being bullet-timers, i'm not quite sure if Drizzt's natural speed would come into play here as a trump card. Fact is, the combination of Wesker and Rogers working together would be one hell of a deadly team, as one has shown to be a genius battlefield strategist, the other genius-level intellect, as well as having strategic skills, himself. It wouldn't be easy to sneak up on Wesker, as shown below with the Hunter scans.

While Naked Snake has impressive CQC abilities, against someone like Captain America or Albert Wesker, up close and personal, I don't believe there's any way Snake could do enough physical damage to put down either opponent for good, or incapacitate them, without his equipment, which is why it's such a handicap for him. I do realize that Jack's shown a few impressive aforementioned feats from Metal Gear Solid 3 and Portable Ops, but Captain America and Albert Wesker are a far cry from Gene and Volgin. I'm not saying that Snake taking the beating from Volgin was PIS, i'm saying it would be PIS to say that Volgin absolutely wasn't holding back, when, he showed the ability to send a man flying from a metal drum by use of his fists, punched through a wall of rock, punched through the outer hull of the Shagohod, Volgin should have had the ability, and capability to one-shot Snake, which is exactly the strength that both Cap and Wesker possess, meaning that once either get their hands on Snake, he would be in serious trouble.

@SlimJ87D: Thank you, bro.

So has jean posted once or what?

"without Jack's camouflage gear, he would stick out like a sore thumb under the circumstances of these conditions"

Tell me, who taught Solid Snake everything he knows?

Big Boss.

Everything David is capable of, he learned from his father. Did he need camoflauge to sneak past 2 hundred trained Marines in less then 7 minutes (that's how long Captain Dolph's speech was)?

Saying BB is handicapped without camo is a gross underestimation. If his son, whom he taught everything he knows, can sneak through Shadow Moses and The Oil Tanker, the former of which being guarded by Next Generation Special Forces, soldiers handpicked from various Military Divisions for displaying superior combat ability, then genetically modified to be even better, recieving, quote, "highly advanced senses of hearing and vision", then I bet he can find a nice shaded spot to lay low. He did it in Grozny Grad; he was reduced to just a pair of pants and nothing else, no camoflauge of any kind, but he still managed to get through.

Another thing, this is the jungle. BB is in his element, no one knows these greens better then him. Who's Wesker? Some spoiled brat scientist? I doubt he knows anything about urban survival.

Remember, this is The Hunger Games. Not Gladiator Battle. Naked Snake is an excellent hunter and survivalist; in Peace Walker we can see him jump in a pond, catch a fish with his bare hands, and then eat that b*tch right then and there. He can survive indeffinately here. Having Drizzt with him to talk to the forest and whatnot only enhances his already very high chances of survival.

If they wanted, Snake and Drizzt could just wait for Cap and Wesker to hunger and tire, then strike. Cap surely knows a thing or two about hunting, but he can't keep them both going forever. Not as long as Snake and Drizzt together can at least.

It won't take long for Wesker's serum to run out... from there, poof, powerless! Jill states that he needs to take injections regularly; after a few days he'll be easy pickings. Sure my team doesn't know his powers will run out, but as stated previously, BB and Drizzt are both thinkers. There not gonna just run around like idiots looking for a fight. They'll take a few days to get familiar with the landscape, establish a safehouse, make some plans, and after a few days when there all good and ready, they will strike. By then, Wesker will be no more dangerous then your average cop.

"the comparison between Jaeger and Wesker is like comparing apples and oranges, considering one has a penchant for blades, while the other for guns."

Ah, but don't we start off with no gear? ;)

Wesker will have only his bare hands to fight with; no guns for shooting. So again, Snake has beaten someone faster then Wesker already. Albert's strength advantage doesn't make a difference because Null used a sword, so any hits that he connected would be fatal anyway.

That gives Wesker no advantages over Null. He has nothing to pull on Snake that Null didn't try. Everything he tries to throw at BB, the soldier will counter in the same fashion he did to Jaeger.

"against someone like Captain America or Albert Wesker, up close and personal, I don't believe there's any way Snake could do enough physical damage to put down either opponent for good,"

As I said, BB is plenty strong considering he physically overpowered The Boss, who effortlessly carried a 600 pound Nuke Launcher miles through the jungle with one hand.

That feat puts The Boss in the 600 pound range at the very least, and Snake not only overpowered her arms but also pushed her to her knees, thus overcoming her leg strength as well.

"i'm saying it would be PIS to say that Volgin absolutely wasn't holding back,"

Volgin has a reputation throughout the Soviet Union for accidently killing the people he's trying to interrigate before they even get the chance to tell him anything. He'd have no reason to randomly decide to cut Snake some slack.

Not to mention that, compared to his other feats, tanking Volgin's torture is completely consistant. If it's consistant, it's not PIS and can only be just another feat.

"which is exactly the strength that both Cap and Wesker possess,"

I completely agree, Volgin does have similar strength to Wesker. So, we can assume Snake can tank his hits as well ;)

Really what is Wesker's greatest feat? Shoving his hand through a 100 year old's chest, which at that time probably resembled jello more then a skeleton?

I also wanna bring another thing up. I want to talk about just how smart Snake is.

Big Boss is the best there is when it comes to On-Site-Procurment. What does Wesker do when he runs out of bullets? He drops the clip and pulls out a new one.

What does Snake do? He pockets the clip and uses it to distract a guard later.

What does Snake do when he fights an invisible enemy? He lures him out by throwing some food on the ground.

What does Snake do when he doesn't feel like sneaking past two dozen armed soldiers? He hides in a cardboard box and hitches a ride in a delivery truck.

There's a reason Big Boss was put in charge of FOXHOUND, the most elite division of the United States Army that takes on only the most dangerous of Black Ops. It's because he's smart. He is a strategist.

Hell he was sure smart enough to establish Outer Heaven right under The Patriots' nose.

In conslusion, Big Boss and Drizzt together can survive for two hundred years in the jungle. Cap can keep himself and Wesker alive for a few weeks. Even if it does come down to a fight, Snake already has beaten an enemy superior to Wesker (Null) so I'm sure he can at least hold Wesker for a bit. And that's only if Wes can keep his powers that long.

Oh, and one more thing.

Character: Naked Snake

Gear: Backpack, Mk. II Tranquilizer gun, M1911A1 Combat Pistol, CQC Knife, Patriot, Woodland, Treebark, and Desert Tiger Camoflage Uniforms (He'll be wearing Woodland at the start), Face Paint Kit.

This was my character sheet. You can see it the exact same way on the first page of the PM Conversation. Note, I said,

Woodland, Treebark, and Desert Tiger Camoflage Uniforms (He'll be wearing Woodland at the start),

I stated he'll be wearing Woodland at the start. This was just luck, but... he'll need something to wear, and since I specified this as what he's wearing, it's technically not part of his gear, which would normally be located inside the backpack. OP never specified what they would be wearing without their gear, and Woodland Camo is Naked Snake's most well known outfit. So, unless you can find grounds to dispute it, I'm calling he's wearing the Woodland camo :D

bump?

I think there are a few things that you've misunderstood in your statements; for one, I didn't bring up Albert Wesker's penchant for guns because of equipment, I brought it up because he wouldn't bother hacking away bullets with a blade when he can just as easily lean to the side and avoid them without having to even use the full extent of his speed, which is so that he can avoid automatic fire up close, although, with no equipment in this battle, that wouldn't be of any concern here. Also, the serum Wesker injects himself with is known as PG67A/W, and it doesn't give him his powers, it stabilizes them. Meaning we don't know if without the serum, his virus would further mutate him, or if it would reduce him to ol' Captain Wesker, that's pure speculation that was never specified, although, if Jake Muller is anything like his father post Birkin serum, we may find out. We also don't know exactly what "regularly" means in context when Jill said it, a day? Two days? Regularly just means it needs to be taken at a certain time, which is why when he was overdosed with the serum by Chris, it put his accelerated healing factor on the fritz. I would compare Wesker to Gene before I would to Null, due to the fact that Wesker is a genius-level intellect, not simply a soldier, only Wesker is even more evolved than Gene was, barring the psionic abilities. Again, The Boss had defeated Jack twice before she finally sacrificed herself as part of the government's plan to make her seem like a terrorist, while those who knew her well thought of her as a martyr.

Even if Jack or The Boss had peak human level strength, it's nothing compared to the strength of Wesker or Rogers, both whom have proved to have superhuman strength in their own right. Wesker was able to throw aerial rockets as if they were footballs, punch through the steel of an uroboros containment missile, dent a solid steel wall purely out of frustration, put his hand through a steel/stone wall and rip it out as if it were made of foam. Captain America has been shown lifting huge weights, hurling pieces of concrete debris roughly his own size, destroy the front of a truck with a sling of his shield, destroy a helicopter with a sling of his shield, it goes on. Point being, if either Wesker or Rogers were to get their hands on Snake, they could toss him around like a rag doll, seeing as both of their enhancements dwarf most of those seen in the Cobra unit. If The Boss was able to defeat Jack soundly, I have absolutely no doubt that Captain America would be able to, seeing as Captain America has far more feats than The Boss, who's strength feats include just lifting up the Davy Crockett missile. Without his guns, combat knife, spider camouflage to make him almost completely invisible, Snake would have to rely solely on his CQC skills, and if Captain America is adept at every form of hand-to-hand combat known to man, that dwarfs Jacks fighting stats. Being a drow elf, even if Drizzt could communicate via the forest, he would still be sensitive towards the sunlight, and once Snake gives away his position, all it would take is sparring a bit with Captain America before Jack would be incapacitated.

While Drizzt could, in theory, cause Albert Wesker some trouble in H2H with his natural speed, I doubt that without the Bracers he would be as fast as Wesker would be in short, controlled bursts. Even if the drow elf managed to wound Wesker, it wouldn't be anything his healing factor couldn't take care of, especially since Drizzt would be without his magical artifacts. Simply put, a highly skilled elf and a highly skilled mercenary against two highly enhanced soldiers (or in Wesker's case, a former soldier), with their own set of formidable skills, isn't going to end well for the man and the elf, especially if the enhanced team works together to incapacitate one member (most likely Jack), and eventually flush the other out, effectively making a team effort to overwhelm and defeat Drizzt, taking the victory. As for your intelligence and resourcefulness comment, Wesker wouldn't save the clip because he wouldn't need to, Wesker utilizes his physical stats more than he does weaponry, as shown before when I posted the scan of him one-shotting a large Hunter and causing it's head to explode, and we're talking about a B.O.W. that's barely phased by a shotgun blast, I don't think that Big Boss could tank that kind of power, nor could he from Captain America, who's punched out Beast, gone toe-to-toe with John Steele, etc. Snake and Drizzt could lie in wait for as long as they pleased, they would eventually be found by the enhanced team's senses, and when they are found, our team would systematically take one out and then move on to the other.

@progenitor: Drizzt was brought up to be a fighter and was trained as such, his people are feared with good cause, Drizzt was trained in all forms of combat weapons and non weapons. he spent almost ten years trainnig with his houses weapons master (the greatest fighter of the drows) before going to the the academy. Evey year they held what is called the Grand Melee, Drizzt's skills were so finely honed, that none could match him. Where his peers would use lies and mistrust to advance themselves, Drizzt used logic and misdirection in addition to his superior skill, winning the day and taking first in the Grand Melee. Drizzt placed his trust in the only stable thing in his life, his skill and histraining, never again letting anyone under his guard again for many, many years. He practiced every waking hour, well beyond the requirements of the Melee-Magthere instructors. His work pays great dividend, winning him the Grand Melee for the next two years. His teachers are so impressed they move him up in the next Grand Melee with student three years ahead of him in their training, and he still wins nearly effortlessly, until the day he leaves the academy he remains undefeated. He has several hundered years of combat experiance!

He also has the power to mark his foes with Fariy Fire, which causes them to stand out with purple flames. He can change his sight to infa red to allow him to hunt better in the dark. This with the fact he is a hell of a lot smater and more silent then a hunter may give him the edge he needs. As for the speed I think he could easily keep up with cap and even keep Wesker at bay. Also Cap has not had decades worth of combat experiance, remeber he was frozen for almost half that time!!! its a comon misconception.Also don't forget Cap is going to stand out in these envoirment, even wesker as well he is not prone to simply hiding, his powers have made very over confident...his greatest weakness, as for sunlight it now has little to no effect on Drizzt as he has been on the surface for years now. Edit As for tracking Drizzt, it is going to be alot harder then you think, a group of rangers could barley keep up with him and if they did not have another elf who could talk to the woods would have lost him numerous times, (this was before he was trained as a ranger and the sun still effected him)He was still able to sneak up on their camp and listen in before engaging the top elf and escaping again. This with his now ranger skills will make him hellish to find. I don't see Cap as much of a threat to Drizzt, if it gets to close combat Wesker has the strength to put him down. But Wesker is not scared to show his powers early on, I think this may be a lot closer then you think. Drizzt is more then a Drow, even they fear him!!!

The example Arrow gave is proof of Drizzt's H2H skill and stealth capabilities. If a group of rangers and some dude who could talk to the forest couldn't find him, I doubt a soldier with slightly enhanced senses and a spoiled scientist with the world's suckiest eyesight and hearing will. Wesker really didn't notice Jill scream "NO!" and frantically sprint towards him in time to dodge the tackle?

Jack was able to sneak through Grozny Grad with NO equipment at all. Grozny Grad was GRU's stronghold, it had DOZENS of soldier's patrolling it at all times. Jack, wearing nothing but a pair of pants, having just been beaten to hell by someone stronger then Wesker, and having his EYE shot out, was able to stroll right through without being detected.

Cap and Wesker won't be finding them. If anything, they'll be wandering around while Snake and Drizzt find them! If Drizzt can really talk to the forest, he'll be aware of their position at all times once they get within good enough range. I doubt he and Jack will just stand there playing with themselves while the enemy approaches.

Big Boss created FOXHOUND and MSF from the ground up; FOXHOUND started with him and Campbell, that's it. But soon, through his leadership, it became the leading government agency in all types of Black Op missions and espionage.

MSF is the same thing, Big Boss turned an idea of a land of free soldiers into the biggest mercenary force in the business.

Outer Heaven is a whole 'nother thing. The Patriots ruled the world. They had there hands in every corporation cookie jar on the planet. Everything was under their control. But Big Boss STILL managed to establish Outer Heaven from right under their nose.

Together, with Drizzt's own formidable brain, they can certainly come up with a winning strategy. As Arrow said, Wesker has never shy'd away from bosting his abilities. He's no wild card, they'll be absolutely aware of his abilities from the second they lay eyes on him, and can plan accordingly from there.

They have an infinite amount of time to come up with the best strategy possible; they can live forever in that forest. Cap and Wesker on the other hand, will need to carry on eventually. Wesker has NO survival skills, and the ones Cap displayed can't match Snake and Drizzt's. Eventually, they'll have to seak the enemy out and try to end it. That's when BB and Drizzt can strike.

"he wouldn't bother hacking away bullets with a blade when he can just as easily lean to the side and avoid them without having to even use the full extent of his speed,"

Ok fair enough, but Null is still faster then Wesker.

4:17 Chris and Sheva dodge him

4:52 Chris not only pulls the trigger before Wesker, but manages to land a couple hits on him as well (notice the blood, Wesker ain't THAT durable). Why didn't he dodge those?

4:58 Wesker gets stabbed. Instead of dodging he decides it'd be a super idea to try and absorb the knife. It didn't work.

6:02 Chris shows that he's more badass then Wesker (not part of the debate just throught I'd bring it up ;)

Wesker was able to throw aerial rockets as if they were footballs, punch through the steel of an uroboros containment missile, dent a solid steel wall purely out of frustration, put his hand through a steel/stone wall and rip it out as if it were made of foam.

Snake's skin>Volgin's fists>RPG>uroboros missile=steel>stone

If The Boss was able to defeat Jack soundly,

Now hold up just a dang minute. The Boss did NOT defeat Jack. They fought... 5 times. The first three times, Jack didn't even fight back, to his full extent at least. Imagine this: your mother walks up to you, says she's gonna kill you, and proceeds to try just that. What are you gonna do? Say "bring it on" and go full force?

No, you're going to WTFing pretty hard first, then you're gonna think "I can't hit her she's my mother!"

That's what happened to Jack. The fourth and fifth times they fought, he had gotten over it a bit, and tried harder, as evidence by him actually holding his own pretty well. I doubt he just got a sudden surge of skill then and there; he just decided to actually try by then (and even win as evidence by their fifth bout).

And The Boss did not let Snake win the final battle. It's true, her mission was to die and she'd be willing to lose no matter what, but she wanted to have a fair and square fight with Jack to finally see who was better.

That's why she called in the MiGs to bomb the place, so she could go all out, and even if she won still complete her mission.

Wesker wouldn't save the clip because he wouldn't need to, Wesker utilizes his physical stats more than he does weaponry,

He's still never displayed much tactical intelligence. Big Boss however, has, both on the battlefield and as leader of FOXHOUND, MSF, and Outer Heaven.

Also, the serum Wesker injects himself with is known as PG67A/W, and it doesn't give him his powers, it stabilizes them. Meaning we don't know if without the serum, his virus would further mutate him, or if it would reduce him to ol' Captain Wesker,

WRONG!

Sheva: So if we cut the supply of serum he loses his strength?

Jill: Affirmative, but he just took a dose so rabble rabble this part isn't important.

Jill confirmed that Wesker loses his strength without the serum. Further mutation was never mentioned. BOOM.

if Captain America is adept at every form of hand-to-hand combat known to man, that dwarfs Jacks fighting stats.

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” Bruce Lee

Good for Cap. Care to show a time where he actually DISPLAYED superior combat skills, and not just a time where he rambled about how awesome he is?

I'm not underselling Cap's skill, just saying BB is just as good.

0:56:35 Naked Snake singlehandedly takes down the Ocelot Unit, the most elite and highly trained combat squad GRU has to offer.

5:40 In a scene even more badass then the above, Naked Snake singlehandedly annihilates an armed squadron of heavily trained soldiers.

CQC>All

In short: Wesker freely displays his powers in front of Team A. Team A proceeds to think up a strategy, make traps, and kick ass. Wesker meanwhile, complains about the sun and wishes for his glasses.

Admittedly, although i'm familiar with Drizzt as a character, i'm no expert involving his past endeavors involving unarmed combat, so i'll trust Final Arrow's word on the points he brought up, however, the only stratagem i've heard from the opposition thus far has been; aversion to close confrontation and remaining clandestine. That would only get your team so far, and even so, I believe the drow elf Drizzt would be the only character with enough natural speed combined with decades of skill to pose a threat to our team. I do concur that this match would be closer than i've previously given credit, but nonetheless, I feel that our team simply has too much combined skill and physical stats to overwhelm both Jack and Drizzt. Albert Wesker has shown the ability to take on B.O.W.'s much more powerful than any character Snake has faced, case in point being The Ivans, 2 helmeted tyrants moving in unison that bodyguard Sergei Vladimir. Wesker single-handedly defeated and killed both of the tyrants (Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles), only to afterwards kill off a mutated Sergei, a self-turned B.O.W. with fearsome speed and strength, not to mention bio-projectiles. Even earlier, in the same game, yet different mission, he managed to use his intelligence to incapacitate the nigh-invulnerable Lisa Trevor, who was immune to all conventional forms of firearms, leaving her to die in the self-destruct sequence of the laboratory under the Spencer Mansion. Even before that, Wesker had managed to kill off the Prototyrant all by his lonesome, without any powers. So, combined with all of the B.O.W.'s Wesker has under his belt, I would say that he has more than the credentials in both intelligence and physicality to take on a highly skilled, yet unequipped Drizzt.

Most likely, the hunters would become the hunted in this scenario as Albert Wesker could begin to take a stroll through the foliage, causing as much of a distraction as necessary, whilst Steve Rogers uses the trees to move at an unseen vantage, Wesker using himself as the bait for a trap, as even if the opposition were to tag or attempt to gang up on him, he would utilize his infamous speed bursts to avoid both combatants long enough for them to give away their position, allowing Captain America to spring into action and take the initiative by sparring with Jack, allowing Albert Wesker to focus all of his attention upon Drizzt. Skilled as Drizzt may be, I simply don't think that his natural speed would be enough to counteract the speed bursts of Wesker, who would be able to deflect any unarmed attacks that Drizzt may attempt, giving enough time for Wesker to deliver a Cobra Strike technique, a martial arts thrust maneuver with the capability of sending 3+ men flying backwards by the impact of velocity. Meanwhile, Captain America, who's fought John Steele, Deadpool, and Shang-Chi in unarmed combat, would most likely utilize his speed and strength along with his own decades of combat skill to incapacitate Jack with a nerve strike. Once Captain America would finish dealing with Naked Snake, again, it would most likely become a 2-on-1 situation against Drizzt, still preoccupied with Wesker in H2H combat. Once Captain America uses his agility and speed to pursue Drizzt, Drizzt would most likely have the ability to parry with the enhanced soldier, up until Wesker would use a dirty tactic of utilizing yet another martial arts maneuver, the Knee Cannon, after dashing behind Drizzt with a speed burst, Rogers leaping to the side to avoid slamming into Drizzt. Effectively utilizing teamwork to incapacitate one after the other. It would be close, but in the end, I still believe my team has the greater skill & physical stats to pull the majority.

Where's jeanroygrant in all this?

@Deranged Midget said:

Where's jeanroygrant in all this?

Only God knows.

The Ivans, 2 helmeted tyrants moving in unison that bodyguard Sergei Vladimir.

Tyrants aren't really that powerful. Nemesis failed to bust through the RPD Station doors.

He can't even knock down a door!

Even Mr. X's, whom the Ivans are more or less identical to, greatest feat was just barely breaking through a wall. Hardly counts as "superior to anything Snake has ever faced".

Wesker had managed to kill off the Prototyrant all by his lonesome

So did Rebecca. Prototyrant=pussy.

Most likely, the hunters would become the hunted in this scenario as Albert Wesker could begin to take a stroll through the foliage, causing as much of a distraction as necessary, whilst Steve Rogers uses the trees to move at an unseen vantage,

Hmm, quite an impressive strategy. Though I see two flaws.

1. Captain America, wearing red, white, and blue, isn't going to blend in very well in a green forest.

2. My good ol' buddy Drizzt is pals with the forest; he'll see Rogers coming from a mile away.

So, your plan will actually end more like this.

Albert Wesker could begin to take a stroll through the foliage, causing as much of a distraction as necessary, whilst Steve Rogers uses the trees to move at an unseen vantage, Wesker using himself as the bait for a trap. Drizzt feels the duo coming, and he and Snake quickly hide. Considering Snake, wearing only a pair of pants, managed to sneak through a completely urban environment being patrolled by highly trained soldiers, this is easily accomplished. Wesker walks into a previously set tripwire like a spaz, and a large log is sent his way. He dodges without to much trouble, but in his distraction is ambushed by Jack. Jack, being capable of defeating Null, will have no problem dealing with Wesker's speed, and can at least hold him for a bit. Cap rushes to his partners side, but is surprised by Drizzt. With the element of surprise, the elf takes Rogers out, and quickly rushes to his partners side. The duo double team the scientist, and the game is set.

Of course, that is only one of many possible scenarios.

Captain America, who's fought John Steele, Deadpool, and Shang-Chi in unarmed combat,

He didn't fight Deadpool in unarmed combat. DP let Cap hit him for a bit then kicked his ass handily. In the Shang-Chi scan-they were sparring, not fighting. It was not a serious bout. Even when Shang-Chi is knocked down, he doesn't even stop his sentence. He just keeps talking casually.

decades of combat skill to incapacitate Jack with a nerve strike.

1. Naked Snake technically has more experience then Cap, considering the latter spent 70 years in an ice cube while the former was fighting from the age of 14 till death.

2. Naked Snake knows nerve strikes as well. All the Snake's do, except Solidus who has never displayed them (but I'm sure he does).

Final Comments: Througout his long life, Naked Snake has taken part in countless wars, killed hundreds of men, defeated the Cobra Unit who is credited as "leading the U.S. to victory in the second World War" AKA Captain America's equivalent, destroyed highly advanced AI Weapons armed with flamethrowers, machineguns, tracker missiles, TORPEDOS... developed by Doctor Strangelove, beat the artifically enhanced "perfect soldier" Null who is faster then bullets, survived falls from up to 300 feat with no damage, stood close to ground zero of a lanching nuke with no damage, saved the world enough times to overset how many he almost destroyed it, led several high ranking secret black op military divisions, and never dropped his cigar while doing any of it.

Wesker... beat a couple two tonners.

You know as well as I do, bro, that it would be unlike Jack to hold back on The Boss in any of their fights, considering he follows orders like a true soldier (and, btw, I believe Master Miller had a lot to do with the training of David). Here's a video to show a fight between Snake and The Boss when she defects, just to show the skill gap in between the 2. You agreed that consistency doesn't = PIS, if the Tyrants in Resident Evil could rip through stone and steel like it were nothing, and Nemesis even had a rocket launcher, doesn't it make little to no sense that he wasn't able to break down the doors of the R.P.D.? Especially when Nemesis was wrecking everything in his path to get to Jill during the time you play as Carlos and search for the antivirus for her. Anyway, point being, I doubt the Tyrants are just 2 tonners, perhaps in base strength, but not when they go into their frenzy, and during the boss fight against The Ivans, they were able to leap and pursue Albert Wesker with fierce speed. Captain America's proven time and time over that he has the skill to outclass Jack, as cool as Big Boss is. CQC is an amalgamation of, I believe 3 martial arts into 1 style, including judo, which Captain America trained himself in and mastered long ago. During his fight with Deadpool, he definitely got more off than 2 hits (I believe it was 4, lulz, but still), and it never really had an ending of a winner, considering Moon Knight got himself involved by tossing a couple moon shurikens in Deadpool's back. If Cap has taken a beating from Namor and managed to pick himself up with sheer willpower, I don't think there's much the cigar-chewing Jack can do that would harm him. In terms of being skilled in their own worlds, they're comparable, but otherwise, Rogers would take a solid majority over Jack.

Any way you hack it, the opposition's technique of lying in wait and hunting our team would still not end very well for your team, considering a battle of CQC (which the conditions of the OP basically lead to), would eventually point to our team outlasting yours due to their augmentation, and we know that Wesker wouldn't have any reason to screw around with the drow elf, considering how skilled Drizzt is, he could most likely ward off Wesker for a while, but in the end, I stand by Wesker's physical stats eventually overwhelming Drizzt, either with a Knee Cannon speed blitz, or going for the infamous hand-through-the-torso. Snake could hide for as long as he wishes, eventually he would be flushed out to aid his partner, which could be where Captain America comes in, preventing Jack from intervening and causing the 2 to get into a sparring match, which, eventually, Captain America should, in theory, be able to take. Wesker's one-shotted a large Hunter, killed 3 Tyrants, countless B.O.W.'s, including Sergei Vladimir and Lisa Trevor, proved to be one of the better shots in the S.T.A.R.S. team when he took out a few cerberus' at the beginning of the REmake, in the dark .. with his sunglasses on (at least proving he had great eyesight in the dark before his mutation :/). If this were a fight with standard gear and equipment, I could see Jack and especially Drizzt taking a majority, but without, it turns into exactly the kind of fight my team would be looking for--up close and personal with hand to hand, which both Albert Wesker and Steve Rogers undoubtedly favor in their own respective styles. Here are a few moments to show Wesker's speed and capability against the opposition.

@Deranged Midget said:

Where's jeanroygrant in all this?

Wish I knew!